SorceressKnight

For the "why didn't they mention Benoit's daughter?" thing as well- didn't David Benoit say somewhere that he was given a choice on who he wanted as talking heads for the show and he picked Vickie, Dean, and Chris as talking heads? Might make some more examples (as presumably he would have talked to his sister, found she wanted nothing to do with it, and gone from there.)

But that's related to a similar problem that also ties to why people like Hogan get a bad rap for the "he didn't cause [x] to win the World Title!". On the first side- wrestling is not even just a zero-sum game where for one to win, another must fail- but goes further to that: No one can succeed unless another person agrees to fail in order to let them succeed. You can't hold someone saying "I don't want to fail for this person's benefit" against anyone, because there's reason to believe that the promotion themselves will punish the people who agree to fail (with claims made companies will take people's losses and use it to say "well, you're worth less money to us because you lost to this person.") On the other side- ultimately, the problem with saying "he didn't cause [x] to win the World Title!" is subjective. Sometimes, the spot was them agreeing to fail, sometimes there were other aspects otherwise, and many times it's down to "they're good. This person is BETTER".

Honestly, this is the one part of the changes that I just don't understand. Why the hell would you lower 24-hour grocery stores to having business hours in a pandemic situation where you need to practice social distancing? Shouldn't it be more of a premium right now to say "fuck this, I'm going grocery shopping at 3 in the morning so I can try and have as few other people in the store as humanly possible?"

All this good tokusatsu stuff coming out makes me feel even more inadequate by thinking "...oh, that's nice. The forgettable romcom that started up my backlog and turned backlog, to deluge, to 'fell out of anime and trying to get back into it' is on streaming services now".

On the plus side, Animal Crossing is just what the doctor ordered during this time period. It's...well, it's Animal Crossing, but it's just so relaxing that it can take a lot of the edge off of life right about now.

On the plus side, aerobic exercise is "anything that makes you breathe harder." So, you know- getting so terrified about the coronavirus you start hyperventilating is technically an exercise.

Well, even with action to re-engage the audience, it is a necessity of having to have the time down to the letter- invariably with WWE matches at live crowds, the rule of thumb has become "suicide dive to the outside before the commercial break", then during the break the heel takes control and locks the face into a resthold until the show comes back from break."

At the very least, if there's the chance of "WWE running best of shows from their library", AEW could get some positive buzz for about two months by saying "we're going to air the AEW PPVs on TNT for free, split into two hour intervals", and that should cover them until the end of April.

But if you're going to claim "well, the current set of wrestlers in their 20s grew up in the Cena era" to claim Ultimo is more important than Hogan, then you have to use the same logic to dismiss Ultimo as being more important than Hogan as well because if those wrestlers grew up with Cena as their Hogan, it was the ROH/X-Division wrestlers who were their Bret/Sting/Steamboat. Ultimo, on the other hand, was eminently forgettable in his WWE run in 2003-04 (which, incidentally, was around the time when Hogan was having his fairly solid in-ring run in 2002-03.)

Thank God. Thank God Thank God Thank God. I may not be religious, but my prayers have been answered. I didn't say which job had the concerns in my last post, but I work at Walmart. They just announced emergency changes to their absence/LOA policies that include "if you're not comfortable working during the panic, you can call out and it won't be held against you." I'm still not out of the woods, especially since I live in an apartment- but at least this helps a bit.

With the Hardy vs. Big Show question, it is weird for it: Big Show was the same Andre big man archetype, but also had very high heights at his peak, in (the Mayweather match) and out (his movie roles) of the ring. The biggest thing the Hardys really inspired was basically saying "it's possible to make it to the big time from backyard wrestling", but the rise of backyard wrestling seems to have fizzled out as independent wrestling has risen up to stardom. It's not like the early 2000s when backyard wrestling was a huge deal- now, it seems like kids probably still do backyard wrestling, but you don't see anyone credible make it even onto the credible independent promotions from the backyards without going into actual training. As backyard wrestling's crumbled, the Hardys' historical importance also falls a bit.

1) Randy Savage vs The Undertaker : Randy Savage. The number two guy during the '80s peak of WWE, and managed to cross over a little bit outside of wrestling. Undertaker was always the "if he's in your top three guys, you're in good shape, but if he's your best guy you have problems" for a top star, and he also had never really crossed over. 2) Edge vs Randy Orton: Orton. He had more longevity than Edge did, and he represents a new era where "being a good meme" can make a top star more than "being a top star in booking or in the ring." 3) Jeff Hardy vs Big Show: Big Show. Jeff Hardy had a short-term run as a top star, and Big Show's highs were higher than Jeff Hardy's (pun not intended.) 4) Chris Jericho vs Sting: Jericho. Sting was historically important by being the guy who Vince couldn't have. Jericho was historically important for being the guy who walked away from Vince. 5) Shinsuke Nakamura vs Toshiaki Kawada: Kawada was great, but Nakamura becoming the first BIG-TICKET PURO STAR to choose WWE made him historically more important for both sides of the Pacific. 6) Daniel Bryan vs AJ Styles: Bryan. His highs were higher than Styles ever reached. 

I've been washing my hands and haven't touched anyone- but I'm absolutely terrified of it nonetheless. Like, getting panic attacks going to work and considering quitting my job just so I can stay in my room until there's an all-clear. It doesn't help when work's viewpoint is "even if the state shuts down, we expect you to be there. And even if someone openly coughs in your face, you will be expected to smile and serve them. But we won't let you take time off until you show symptoms", and everything I've heard to try and calm down has said "accept dying and be fine with it." Great, but I don't WANT to die.

I don't think it's sleeping on Cody as much as...Cody's a much better storyteller in the ring than he is a MOVEZ~! guy, and Cody's explosion is proof you can't truly get five-plus in a vacuum. That's likely the reason for it- when Cody's in random matches for matches' sake, they're kind of mediocre three-star affairs (and even then it's unmerited for a different reason: Cody was able to put on a three star match with anyone (Okada, Omega, etc.)...but Cody could also put on a three star match with ANYONE. Take the crappiest, most generic shindy-fare guy out there and Cody could will him to the match of his life.). Put him in AEW, on the other hand, where he can put some stories behind his matches? Suddenly he's amazing.

Moss seems to me like one of the many exhibits for the change of NXT from "developmental promotion" to "WWE's in-house super indie" being the problem. He's in that "he's green, but he'd likely be better with some experience" level a lot of the homegrowns in WWE are at. The only problem is, as NXT moved from "let's give these homegrowns who are TV-ready to TV and give them the reps they need so they can become polished stars on the main roster" becomes "shiny indy worker! Shiny shiny shiny...aww, not shiny anymore. NEW SHINY! Shiny shiny shiny..." , that suddenly turned it to "they're one of the best PC students and ready to start getting match time...but they're not better than this new indie signing we got who is one of the top 1% of best wrestlers in the world today. If they're not better than one of the best wrestlers on the planet today, back in the Performance Center for more seasoning. What? No, of course people don't get better from having matches and learning what works and what doesn't work to an audience. That's silly talk. More lifting weights until they become as good as one of the world's greatest by osmosis!" When the smoke clears, you end up with guys like Riddick Moss, where it's "you've been in the PC for five years, you're too good to let walk away, you're not good enough for NXT and you're never going to be good enough for NXT because the bar will keep rising just higher than your head is at...fuck it. Go to the main roster, sink or swim." I'm pretty sure the reason he was shit on was because of that "call it in the ring" vs. "script out the matches" thing, possibly combined with the "I was a top star in WCW, you were a top star in the WWE, we're basically equals so it's okay if I give you my script and try calling the matches" thing. So, likely mostly just pettiness.

I assumed it was similar to boxing where you have the standing eight-count where someone is clearly up before then, but they still count to eight.

Four of those should be good. Not sure about the New Jack one (most of New Jack's story was said in Beyond the Mat and wasn't particularly important there). The Brawl for All story...WHY? The Brawl for All was a forgettable tournament. Of the injuries, most weren't particularly serious, with only one wrestler (Brakkus) having an injury to end their career. Only one person from the Brawl for All is deceased now (Steve Williams), and his death was from cancer, so it had nothing to do with the Brawl for All. Likewise, you have Droz's paralysis, but it also had nothing to do with the Brawl for All.

The "title match' doesn't win thing is there- but it'd seem like Velveteen Dream would be the Breeze of right now: Big deal's made of him. They never quite go all-in on him, but he's still considered one of the top stars in NXT and a big deal otherwise. (He did have the NA title win- but honestly, if the North American title existed in 14-15 Tyler Breeze would have absolutely gotten that title too, so it's still kind of even.)

The problem with that is that when you consider how things go in the early-national WWF, Q rating also matters as much as talent would have. Michael Hayes may have had IT to be a big star in WWF if they stayed, but Roddy Piper was pretty similar in having the ability to talk fans into interest, but also had slightly more Q rating than Hayes did at the time (even if it was because "a lot of famous people were Piper fans.") It seems likely that Piper sells Mania 1, but the Freebirds vs. Hogan/Orndorff/a random celebrity main events Los Angeles for Mania 2.

With the performance art claims- the big reason it's hard to see pro wrestling as performance art is that no one's willing to take that logic to its logical conclusion, and run an indie promotion taking more from pairs figure skating or synchronized swimming than traditional pro wrestling. When it goes, sell the matches as different exhibitions where the matches, themselves, are the competitors instead of the performers. The workers in the match are not sold as if they're opponents, but rather as if the wrestler and their opponent are a team, and the team's goal is to put on the best match on the card. Each match happens, and then the fans vote on which match was the best, with that match "winning" the event. This style would invariably be absolutely terrible to watch, and that's the point. There's more than just the art work in a vacuum to make pro wrestling work, because it's the way that artwork makes you feel that's so important- and how everything surrounding the match tells you from the beginning how to feel about it.

The problem with "flippiest guy" is that a lot of the most resonating flippy guys are the ones who had some steak to the sizzle and could put on a very good wrestling match. Much like how a good technical wrestler does not necessarily make you a Johnny Kickpads wrestler, being a good high flier does not necessarily make you a flippy guy. The true flippiest guy would be someone who does lots of flips and doesn't know a wristlock from a wristwatch.

I could see it, because the list for people who've held the World Title (either WWE or WHC) is kind of set: 28 former World Champs are already in the HOF: Bruno Sammartino, Hulk Hogan, Bob Backlund, Pedro Morales, Bret Hart, Triple H, Steve Austin, Randy Savage, Shawn Michaels, Diesel, Kurt Angle, Billy Graham, Ultimate Warrior, Yokozuna,, Edge, Eddie Guerrero, Ric Flair, Sgt. Slaughter, Mankind, Buddy Rogers, Iron Sheik, Stan Stasiak, Ted DiBiase, Antonio Inoki, Andre the Giant, Mark Henry, Goldberg. Batista's already been announced this year, and assuming JBL is in, that's 30. That leaves 32 World Champions who are not in the Hall right now. We can safely assume it's a lock the following will one day be inducted: Vince McMahon, John Cena, Brock Lesnar, Randy Orton, The Rock, Undertaker, Big Show, Jeff Hardy, Kane, Rey Mysterio, Christian. That brings it down to 21. We can assume as well, due to extenuating circumstances- Chris Jericho and Rob Van Dam will probably go in eventually when their careers are over and they leave their current promotion (19), and Dean Ambrose will probably also go in one day either alone or with the Shield when his career ends (18...and assuming it's the Shield that knocks Seth Rollins and Roman Reigns off, so 16.) In addition, his work on WWE Backstage makes it suddenly possible CM Punk could get inducted one day (15.) Eight World Champions can be considered currently active and show no signs of stopping: AJ Styles, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, Kofi Kingston, Jinder Mahal, The Miz, Bray Wyatt, and Dolph Ziggler, Of that list, only Jinder doesn't seem like they'll be HOF-worthy by the time their career ends. Counting Mahal, that leaves a list of potential World Champs to miss the HOF as low as: Sid (and he seems like he'll eventually go in), Ivan Koloff (surprising he hasn't been a Legacy HOFer yet), Chris Benoit (obvious minefield there, and as I said the Four Horsemen clause can count it), The Great Khali (...somehow, I think he's a future throw-in HOFer to build up a class). Leaving- the only two World Champions who don't seem to be Hall of Fame-worthy as Jinder Mahal and Jack Swagger. which...kind of seems appropriate somehow.

Because "less than pretty good" has been able to get in many, many times in the WWE Hall of Fame already. Shit, Bob Orton Jr., Koko B. Ware, Hacksaw Jim Duggan, Torrie Wilson, and Hillbilly Jim all never tasted a championship in WWE, and all five of them made the Hall of Fame. If you really think JBL, a former WWE World Champion, is somehow less deserving of a Hall of Fame induction than five people who couldn't even merit a title reign at any level in WWE whatsoever, then you're just biased. If there's any rules surrounding this, then a bare minimum is "you were the World Champion in WWF/E or WCW (and I'd be able to consider ECW for the same logic), you belong in the HOF." No excuses otherwise- David Arquette? Sure, throw him in the celebrity wing. Vince Russo? If they ever induct backstage workers, sure. Chris Benoit? Well, it's a minefield no one wants to go into, but I prefer to go with the earlier said "well, all of the NWO are technically in" argument to sidestep that minefield by saying "well, they inducted the Four Horsemen, he was inducted in the backdoor that way and we don't have to worry anymore."

I'd say the five tools in wrestling are: 1. In-ring ability. Goes without saying. 2. Look. Should go without saying- but it's a much more varied thing than just the traditional view of having the look seemed like there. 3. Physical charisma 4. Mic work. These two are basically separating the charisma factor into two pieces- because it's entirely possible to have one without the other (for example: Jeff Hardy is clearly charismatic, but he can't really cut a promo...and on the opposite side, someone can cut some funny lines on the mic, but they're not particularly charismatic in the ring.) 5. Connection. The other four tools are things that are obvious in a vacuum, but this is the one tool you can't know someone has until they get out to the ring and people actually see them. It's also possibly the most important one- over the last decade we've seen a number of people (Alberto Del Rio, Sheamus as two good examples) who seemed like they were five-tool players on paper, except in practice the fans just weren't buying what they were selling.

Using the benefits of "would Trish have been better in this era?" and it's likely story, it leads to one of the possible hot takes to add to the 2020 mix as well: Hogan. Yes, Hogan's a little controversial now to say the least- and it's not just "WWE in the common era needs someone larger-than life who could be a crossover star", but even just workrate wise. We saw many, many times in wrestling that Hogan was the Uncle Miltie of pro wrestling- he'd pull out just enough to win. His workrate was always "do just enough to make the fans go home happy with his match", and a lot of the bad matches he had could be seen as "not Hogan's fault that for a long time, enough to make the fans go home happy was 'I was in the same room as Hulk Hogan!' His work in Japan or even his work in 2000 WCW or 2002 WWE (ESPECIALLY since those times were past his prime) make it pretty clear that in 2020 WWE where he wouldn't be able to coast on just being Hulk Hogan, he'd probably be very good in the ring.