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Octopus

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    Wrestling Machine vs Wrestling Machine

    in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

    Posted

    On 8/3/2020 at 1:46 AM, Curt McGirt said:

    My second favorite match. 

    Still haven’t had a chance to check this out. Waiting for after a truly crappy work day to cheer me up.

    With you saying it’s your second favorite, makes me wonder: do you have a top five or ten set in your head for favorites? If so, hit me up with them. Could do a McGirtFest and run through them.

    2020 WRESTLING MERCH

    in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

    Posted

    1 minute ago, Jiji said:

    No problem.

    Went to put the Hokuto shirt in the wash and no wonder it felt like a large and not a XL... It was European XL, US L. Cooooool.

    1. I didn’t see the Hokuto shirt. Maybe next purchase 

    2. Shoot. I ordered XL after looking up UK sizes and a few sites implied they were the same. It’s a long sleeve so in theory I can use that as motivation to lose weight.

    AUG 2020 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

    in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

    Posted

    23 minutes ago, Andy in Kansas said:

    More concerning to me is the potential health risks associated with second-hand Fozzy concert.

    The sad truth is people will catch it and be asymptomatic. Thinking they’re fine and infect those around them after the concert. People travel from all over the country for Sturgis. This could potentially be extremely dangerous. 

    20-10s General Pimping Thread

    in MOVIES: BEST OF...

    Posted

    On 7/31/2020 at 12:30 PM, caley said:

    Talking to my sister after watching this, which I very much enjoyed until the climax, really illuminated for me

      Reveal hidden contents

    just how misogynistic the climax comes across.  Of the three baddies: the guy gets mauled a little then has his face stomped in, a rather quick and merciless death.  Meanwhile the two women get

    :mauled, a nose shattered with a can, face repeatedly and grotesquely smashed in, before the other girl is burned alive, with the two women's repeated lengthy gruesome death's soundtracked by their own screams. It's actually really bothersome.

     

    Very, very, very, very, very fair and honest criticism. Especially in relation to misogyny, which I didn’t fully take into account upon first viewing.

    In a lot of ways, this is a very ugly and disturbing film. Intentionally or unintentionally, that’s where I find beauty in it. Throughout the movie there is this yearning for an honestly fiction idealization for what used to be. Hollywood is beautiful and bright. If you are in vogue you are immensely happy and naively without a care in the world. Adorably so, and everyone loves you. That’s why Leo’s character is so conflicted and insecure, because he is no longer new and on top of the world, like Sharon Tate. Life would be so much better if he had another big meaningful role and could see things the way we see her experiencing them, how he used to. He’s recognizing a lack of fulfillment but instead of being able to address it is reverting to self-consciousness and insecure desires to get to what he dreams the world is. Meanwhile, there is this ignored underbelly of dangerous individuals that are not addressed until too late. This has such a strong parallel to the #metoo movement. Ironically, being told by a former friend of Weinstein.

    When this movie was being made I was strongly against the idea of it. I thought today’s day in age it would be in poor taste to overly glamorize the Sharon Tate murder. Especially with Tarantino directing such a crazed figure like Charles Manson. But the end result was disgustingly tasteful. We only see Manson once and in that time it is honestly terrifying, while being subtly non-discript. My friend finds this portrayal of the Manson Family as racist for not going into their racism and anti-semitism. Which I respect, as I respect and hear your accurate viewing of misogyny. I personally feel that how the Manson Family works the way it does in this film because if they represented them too stylish with neo-nazi symbolism, some morons would overly clip it out and make annoying gifs and be motivated to hate. If it was an accurate portrayal of what happened, they would for sure have to. Like the title suggests, this film is very much a fairytale. And in it, the characters are providing their own fables. 

    The big fairytale being Sharon Tate’s life and eventual death. We are seeing her blissful and constantly happy throughout. To the point of it being completely one-dimensional and understandably problematic for some. But that’s what death of a star does. When a celebrity dies, they are frozen in an idea and asking as they were not a terrible person will be looked at as this concept of a joyous entity that could have brought us more joy if things turned out differently. She is so innocent and likable that as the film was drawing near, I was dreading her murder. Which I apologize for the profanity, but as anyone familiar wasn’t just murdered but physically ripped apart, her fetus cut out of her body, and in her blood racist slogans written on the wall as an attempt to start a race war. So random and absolutely disgusting. As it was drawing near, this perfect person who has been shown as not having any flaws was going to be brutally murdered by some of the most terrible people at that time. I was so sick to my stomach and sad. The fairytale of what I wish would have happened, happened. That Sharon Tate wasn’t murdered and the murderers we vengefully stopped. In the same manner that Inglorious Basterds killed the Nazi’s and Django killed slave owners. Tarantino’s violence (unlike some of his earlier films) were reserved for globally agreed upon villains. A point that you make which I can agree with, the guy with them should have been murdered worse as well. In my abstract interpretation of what they represent, I’m glad they were killed. 

    We are remained that it indeed was a fairytale and not the case of reality. The entire movie we see Sharon Tate in smiling close-ups and in other forms of full body focused in her shots. After the point it is clear we are no longer in any sense of reality, we do not see her this way again. I find it brilliant and a somber effect. Her friends talk to Leo’s character about her and we hear her on the voice box. Just her voice. When Leo’s character gets let into the gate to rejoin the idea of his desired relevance among the loved elite. We see Sharon Tate come outside to hug him, and the camera is now far away. No facial features, just her pregnant body and blonde hair. She is really dead. That baby in her never lived. A murder actually happened. Leo’s character was not real and the day was not save. He is simply an idea of someone reaching for something they’ll never get, a false idea.

    Once addressed with the actual horrors, it is tough seeing things the same way. As more people came out, Weinstein was recognized as a monster. The beautifully bright Hollywood was complacent in looking the other way. Ignorance can be claimed, but you won’t look at any of this the same way. People knew what was going on. But I digress. For that very brief moment, we see things in a less stylized shot, but a more realistic way.

    Brad Pitt’s character is a big problem in the real world. Friend of a star that gets passed through the system despite people’s discomfort of him. Looked at by some as this cool I don’t care figure, but can be looked at as gross when you look deeper into him. The belief is he killed his wife. But he’s still Leo’s friend. He’s this aging cowboy that when it’s all said and done, rides off into the sunset to an unknown future, in an ambulance. A John Wayne.

    Bruce Lee was one of my main problems initially. I really hated that scene. But as a thought on it, it was completely Brad Pitt’s character’s retelling of it. Any narcissist tough guy is going to remember the other guy as a cocky jerk. Retelling it, he would think he came out on top of a scuffle. The other memory of him is with Sharon Tate where he comes across as this wise karate teacher. One, a stereotype of how a star acts and the other a kind stereotype of an Asian martial artist, potentially. Merely a one-dimensional training montage from an idealistic one-dimensional character. 

    [\spoiler]

    I really enjoyed this film. I’m not a Tarantino guy, but I felt this film had more layers to it than some of his other experiences. Yet, I’m reading more into it than maybe what was there. I can see and know people that hated or disliked it for a cavalcade of different reasons.

    • Like 2

    It's Clubberin' Time!

    in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

    Posted

    11 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

    Id be more upset at Vertigo being the film that passed Kane than Hitchcock passing Welles. 

    Id be more understanding if it was Rear Window or even Psycho that passed Kane. 

    But that's for a different thread.:) 

    With a name like @odessasteps I respect your cinema-street cred. Hopefully to get Odessa points I watched Strike a few months ago for the first time and absolutely loved it. Another future essay I want to write is Soviet Style montage editing vs early French Poetic Realism. 

    @Jiji, I have much more to learn on Hansen. Maybe after we’re done deep diving Liger, if you have the time, you can hit me up with recommendations on his non-Japan matches. For his style, “Chaos” is a great way to put it. He’s such a bull. Going into what was discussed earlier, his being adds so much context to each of his matches. I have no idea if him and Andre had storyline beef, but the fact that the crazed large cowboy was about to fight the greatest Giant was context enough. Before they clobbered each other I was marking out. And boy did they clobber each other. Hansen finally getting beaten up by Kenta Kobashi is another example. Hansen was killing him and everyone else for so long. You couldn’t cage the beast. Kobashi finally harnessed the power to put him down and was put over as a big thing because of it.

    @Matt D, as long as we stick with discussing clobberers like Hansen, I’m sure it’ll fit the thread. As long as I don’t make too many movie references we won’t overly [Humphrey] bogart the thread. —— I know how it is finding time to make well thought out threads. If you do make a Matt D takes on the World, Tellin‘ it like it is Thread could lead to great discussion. Especially going further into depth on what you mentioned about Christian. Fascinating.

    ———

    To keep the Fantastic Four’s Thing style Clobbering alive: When a clobber match is underway, do you prefer punch/ closed fist type offense or open hand slaps and chops style strikes? 

    • Like 1

    It's Clubberin' Time!

    in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

    Posted · Edited by Octopus

    As a cinema-nerd (hence Cinema used to be in my name) I tend to relate most things to filmmaking. I’m working on a write-up which I lazily haven’t put enough time into about the idea of Auteur Theory in wrestling. Especially, who are they authors in a match (or even a promotion) who can work in their voice, for better or worse. A Bockwinkel is a great example, and how you’re describing Demolition, because he/ they can have so many great different style matches but inherently if you generic-CAW edited their body’s you could tell it is them. At that point you are an author. Tarkovsky films were Tarkovsky films. Godard films are Godard films. Welles films were Welles films. All of them felt created from the same person, but Citizen Kane and F For Fake are wildly different experiences, but the same voice. Bock against Rick Martel and Wahoo McDaniels were different, but it still had those Winkel fingerprints on it. Then you have someone that can literally make the same movie over and it can still be enjoyable and have an audience. You mentioned Shawn Michaels and Flair. Let’s through Stand Hansen in here, which I could be off on. Maybe they’re a Buster Keaton. Hopefully this example works. A lot of people love Keaton because when you watch Keaton you get Keaton. Same voice but also very much the same film, generally. Anyone that criticizes Keaton looks like a jerk, because Keaton makes most people smile. Same with Hallmark movies as a brand. I can say this because I absolutely adore them as a guilty pleasure, have a formula that is specific to them. You can even time out where in the movie a miscommunication  will lead to a short break up and when they’ll get back together to live happily ever after. If you can pull it off, I love it.

    This isn’t saying people that don’t fit that criteria have points against them. Negro Casas is a chameleon and can have phenomenal matches that feel so different. They’re all good. Good is good. And maybe that’s whats most important.

    Flair was my example earlier, and I love Flair, but as more and more footage comes out we should always be challenging. To movie-ize this again, Citizen Kane being dropped to #2 in both Sight & Sound’s total and Director-only lists (to Vertigo and Tokyo Story, respectively). As a Welles mark I was irrationally upset that Hitchcock passed him. But I can see Tokyo Story passing Kane. Looking at the films themselves, we should constantly be challenging our notion of art-hierarchy. The greats will stand the test of time and if not that’s ok. Appreciation and understanding changes over time. Flair (or JBA) being in the top 5 or 10 is far from an insult.

    Edit: hopefully if they do that PWO project again, I’d love to be apart of it. I love long nerd projects.

    • Like 3

    GENERAL LUCHA LIBRE THOUGHTS

    in LUCHA LIBRE

    Posted

    On 8/4/2020 at 5:19 PM, ohtani's jacket said:

    Does anyone know the name of the blond-haired woman Shocker and Emilio Charles fight over in their 2001 feud? 

    Past few days I tried to dig out the answer and I give up. I’m not sure if she was given a name other than just stating she’s Emilio’s girlfriend.

    On TheCubsfan Lucha Report for August 28th, 2001 I found this, “Emilio Charles goes out on a date with the blonde chick. He then asks her what does Shocker mean by the special treatment, as if he doesn’t trust her. She claims to be 2200% Guapo just like Emilio…

    Emilio Charles, Bestia Salvaje, Scorpio Jr. vs. Averno, Satanico, and Apollo Dantes- Before the match starts Shocker comes out with the Satanico team and starts yelling at Charles, telling him he’s going to make Emilio lose his “guapo”. Then Shocker goes to Emilio’s girlfriend in the front row, hits on her and kisses her on her hand! Emilio chases him off. The Guapos easily take the first fall. Satanico’s team returns the favor in a heavily clipped second fall. Third fall is mostly brawling with a few moves tossed in. Apollo Dantes hits an usually strong tope taking Bestia out. Averno, likewise almost kills himself banging his head on the apron with a tope con giro. Satanico slams Emilio and goes for the nudo, but gets fouled in the process. The match was kind of weak but the crowd was really hot so that’s a plus.”

    Going through videos, I believe this is her:

    C2-A2-CDAA-FFD3-4202-AB81-3924711-BCC80.

    But I couldn’t find footage of the vignettes of them going on dates or meeting up in a park. I did stumble on a steamy video of Shocker getting a massage from a different lady that you can find on YouTube. 

    If you like I could post a link to a November match I believe she’s in the crowd for a contract signing. I don’t speak the language so maybe they say her name in that.

    It's Clubberin' Time!

    in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

    Posted

    Your statement on Demolition is why I try and hold context of a match in high regard. I used to see criticism of 90’s AJPW, lucha, etc. involving the phrase “if you took that match and saw it today at some Indy show, would you and the fans be entertained?” Some matches can be really exciting exhibitions, but what makes wrestling so special is the Why’s and other Questions. Why are the working the way they are? Is there a reason they’re mad at each other? Why go after a certain limb? Who even are they?

    Being able to see a full run allows you to witness the magic of day-to-day. Does someone change their game-plan for opponents or do they have a set style? The other fun thing to notice is if they work a certain way because of what town they are in.

    I found Psicosis to be a great heel, but seeing so few of his matches couldn’t contribute to worthy discussions of him. I think you saying this hits the nail on the head for a misrepresentation of lucha in general. Especially 90’s. It is such a unique  and wonderful world that the details of a match can be missed and just looked at as beautiful spots. It took me a long time to crack, and at times I’m still cracking.

    As for the JBA, I’ve seen very-very-very little so I have nothing specific to add. More a question: Is what you’re saying people’s responses are due to latching on to a gimmick and not going further with it?  Like Flair (Who I like) will get GOAT status from people because he’s considered and presents himself as GOAT. Not saying he is or isn’t, but people buy into that aura greatness and will stick with it instead of digging deeper into why he is or isn’t. 

    • Like 2

    AEW - AUG 2020

    in ALL ELITE WRESTLING

    Posted

    Yeah, $50 if you’re marketing it as a safe space isn’t good. Forum as less and the VIP extras as $50 would have probably looked better. In terms of storylines, AEW has done a good job recognizing when things are not working and adjusting accordingly. Even bluntly saying so. If they run their business model the same way as their stories, I assume if Heels comes off as a failure at first they’ll fix whatever they need to. 

    The interesting thing about that underdog promo was it was bookended by her being a heel. If I recall correctly, she was portrayed as a villain in a promo before that and then turned after the match to heel again. She’s really been plagued with bad booking. Coming off moreso odd with twisting inconsistencies. The Nightmare Collective I actually found interesting, but was at the same time as the Dark Order which was established beforehand and uses the Nightmare name which was the Cody friend’s group. They make a great call and acknowledge it didn’t work. So she’s face again. Then she’s teaming with Allie who turned face again, who was a face when she faced Brandi but a heel before she turned face again. I think? Going through her run since the beginning, I’m not exactly sure I can follow it correctly. 

    I’m very unfamiliar with her work outside of AEW, @caley. Anything you recommend? You make a good point with strikes. I think there’s a few people that either need to lay it in or work on making it look rougher. Brandi is definitely one of them. ——— Also, I’d like to write that I did like your Once Upon a Time in Hollywood post you quoted me in. I haven’t had a chance to respond with non-jumbled rambles. Agreeing and adding to. I feel with wrestling I can spout off posts and ramble texts, but with movies I take my time. No disrespect intended.

    • Like 2

    AEW - AUG 2020

    in ALL ELITE WRESTLING

    Posted

    I’m pro Brandi. She has a great personality and I enjoy her YouTube show. She’s a great talker and very likable. Maybe I’m off, but she’s a reverse-Brit Baker. As a villain it doesn’t click for me, but can excel as a face. If she wants to wrestle, keep her on Dark to get more reps in. When she was on Jericho’s podcast she said she didn’t get enough ring experience. She has the personality to be entertaining on tv. 

    The only backstage thing I’m aware of was her work (at least I assume her work) with KultureCity to make their events more sensory inclusive, which is very cool!

    I don’t exactly understand what the Heels thing is or almost was. Was it a forum community or a new show? Or a combo of both? 

    • Like 2
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