Godfrey

Looking forward to this one! I'm still hoping some last minute cheap tickets open up, has anyone seen a Chamber match live before? It seems like it would be hard to see from the nosebleeds

That Omni show also has the Road Warriors as heels against Hansen and Bundy and hoo boy that's a lot of dude

Taker is a good example. As the 90s went on he knew he couldn't be a zombie 24/7 so his version of kayfabe was that he was a wrestler so into his character that even he didn't know what was real and what wasn't. It was a great limbo act Taker also never totally broke and only spoke about kayfabe after he was fully retired, I think that's a great template I disagree that staying in character makes wrestling look bad these days unless the gimmick is embarrassing in the first place. We're through the looking glass on kayfabe and everyone knows wrestlers are athletes and performers so to me it's just a matter of professionalism to not pull the curtain back. Leave a little mystery, it's more fun and it makes the matches more enjoyable. I've seen guys like MJF, Darby, Drew, Punk, and Cody ride this line very well in the past so I know it's possible

Moving this conversation from an AEW thread so I'm not clogging that up with my late reply: Kayfabe, is it necessary or even wanted in modern wrestling? To me yes, blurring the line between real and fake is what makes wrestling enjoyable. I don't see it as a con although I hear the arguments for that especially historically and from a labour perspective it's exploitive to demand a worker be working whenever they're in public. But if we treat it as a performance art then I think keeping kayfabe is part of the art of pro wrestling and maybe even most of it. This is also why certain in-ring styles don't appeal to me. Tbarrie says at no point do they need to believe Infinity War or Game of Thrones is real to enjoy it and I think this is where we come at it differently. I don't enjoy those movies/shows because no matter how good the stories are I find the fake worlds completely uninteresting after an hour, I watch sports because I like seeing real world action. I love pro wrestling when it rides that line (a fake sport in the real world) and the kind of kayfabe I'm talking about is a key ingredient of good pro wrestling storytelling. Again, I don't ever think the matches are real and I don't think that should be the goal, but believing that the wrestlers are really who they say they are and even hate who they say they hate helps with the immersion. When it works I think that's what makes wrestling special. Appreciate the perspectives so far, it's always good to hear where people are coming from.

Yes and he handwaves it away as people being 'haters' even though that's what he gets accused of too and he always just says it's his opinion so deal with it. Between that and the producer and Disco's racism it's a masterclass in contradictory mental gymnastics.

I am being serious but I have a very different take on kayfabe. I don't think kayfabe is about tricking people into thinking wrestling matches are real, the famous quote is that you can't make people think wrestling is real but you can convince them you're real. To me kayfabe is about keeping up the reality or living the gimmick so that people don't know what's real and what isn't, and that's when you can really get the audience to buy into your show

Other thoughts: Jimmy Uso needs to not do Yeet stuff or spears ever again. I liked the Alexa Bliss clip, rehumanizing her character after that awful Fiend stuff. Now if she would just drop the doll... That one Pretty Deadly dude hit a full on Tazplex, what the hayull?! Considering it was three heel teams, the whole tag match went pretty well (Dawkins going full Dark Order on his ground and pound notwithstanding) The Kevin Owens promo was more good shit, he's nailing it Solo and Fatu are gonna beef, that'd be an interesting Mania match. People are already chanting for Fatu so would he be the face?

Interesting! I'd prefer kayfabe came back personally, then you wouldn't have to wonder because they'd always be in character

From what was being said here, the YouTube edit wasn't doing the Rock's promo justice so I searched out the full thing. His choice to cut a face promo but as a heel then get angry at the crowd for booing was very strange, I can't tell if it's intricate character work or Dwayne's insecurities showing through. The Cody portion went on a long while and culminated in a goddam Shang Tsung threat, weird stuff but intriguing. I like some of the suggestions that have been posted of where this could go, to me it felt a little open on purpose like they decided at the last minute they were going to do something but don't have the full angle worked out yet. Part of me thinks Rock was shook up by the reaction to his promo on the Netflix debut and he's course correcting. "Show the picture of our moms!"

Not to belabor the point BUT I was flippant about the Punk stuff because to really continue that discussion I would have to tear down Adam Page and I don't want to. I think he's doing great and improved quite a lot over the past year or so. My stance is while it is possible to learn through trial and error instead of taking advice, that doesn't mean the Hangman of yesteryear couldn't have used a few tips that would have got him here sooner. And all of their problems came out of Page going rogue on a live in-ring promo with Punk because of locker room misinformation so I'm not sure who was more unprofessional there (that or Punk's 'coward shit' promo). Anyway, Page rules, Punk rules, wrestling rules. That's where I'm at

Hilarious Punk takes, well done one and all

Stoked for Saints and Wes Lee though, Lee has been turning it up lately

Can't say I love the name Ricky Saints but as far as WWE name changes go it's a lateral move which is the best you can do. Could've been Sticky Rarks or something

The opening tag was posted (clipped to the last half), watching for my boy Fletcher after I heard he and Ospreay are headed for a cage https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGl8lmwv_98&ab_channel=AllEliteWrestling What I saw was a pretty good sprint! Still think Kyle is a huge star developing before our eyes, Takeshita too although I think he could be more intense (for lack of a better term). Some downsides, the poison rana botch showed why that move should be used more sparingly and Ospreay's cutter off the top was a little loose for my liking too. I thought Omega was not on his game in this one, although that may be part of the story since Ospreay was clearly running the team and saving the day. Both of the Dream Team seem pretty one note in the ring right now imo but I didn't see the first part of the match. Callis is so bad, he didn't know what Ospreay was doing breaking up a pin? Is he forgetting what wrestling is? Although he broke out the same "No, no, no, no!" as when he got tackled in AAA, nice unintentional callback. Clip didn't include why Ospreay and Fletcher need a cage now but I'll tune in for that one for sure.

It's still real to AxB, dammit!

Oh no

Checking out the Caster/Page/Dustin/MJF stuff on YouTube, looks like good shit

For all their worth, rumbles are that Roman won't be at Elimination Chamber

Agree with you both, with Paul's abilities and only one foot in the business he's more of an attraction than anything approaching a great wrestler. If you take promos, character-work, and heat into your definition of how good a wrestler is he's miles ahead of other prospects from living his whole life dialing his personality up to 11 and being a real-life heel. One thing I judge a wrestler by is how well they can cover mistakes, I think the best wrestlers can screw up a lot in a match and the crowd never realizes it. On that level, Paul isn't very good but gets better all the time. But you never know, at any time he could box his brother, get his bell rung, and decide he's done taking bumps

I'm not sure 'he practices his matches and couldn't G1' is a valid criticism in this day and age. Or if it is, it applies to a lot more people than Logan Paul

Calling Gunther/Jey now has me curious what a two month build will be like. Can they get it hot enough it can main event night one? Cause at this point, if Jey doesn't legit main event he could feel less important permanently

I like to think Starks would have found notoriety anyway, the idea that without AEW these people would be nowhere is non-starter for me. Mexico and Japan exist, the indies exist, TNA exists and is getting better, NWA isn't very good but maybe that means Ricky would have stuck out as more talented. You never know how someone will break out

There was one guy who immediately caused the ratings to go up when he arrived, although pretty sure if you check the history Dynamite was already in ascendance before he got there and it was not a lasting bump for one reason or another. I agree at this point it's more about putting on consistently good shows and building good will than anyone popping a rating, I can see where the expectation and hope comes from though

Unless it was an angle about other men sleeping with his wife, Miro wasn't interested

Summer Holiday and Tate London would be funny mid-90s jobber names. Are these names for anyone or are they just trademarking random combos to give an unsuspecting college volleyball star?