NoFistsJustFlips

Disagree. Inside of the wrestling world, even before he started representing wrestling related law disputes, he was jizzing money all over the place to get on shows. Ultimate definition of a money mark. The Cornette connection only came after Cornette learned he was dropping five figures advertising on MLW & WV wrestling companies. He paid his way into the business. I'm not a fan if that.

Your mileage may vary with your Jericho opinions. But why is what he did there worthy of a fine? The money mark lawyer is doing podcast rounds marking out about something he's supposedly under an NDA for. I 1,000% get why that would annoy Jericho.

Made it interesting. But boy is Darren Waller not that guy. What was he doing on that last drive? I get that he was roughed up. But you're right on your own boundary. You could have got over there and tossed the ball to someone. He had zero effort or awareness. The Eagles did not shake their slump in the way this one ended. They just barely scraped by a 5 win team with QB issues.

My opponent having Amari Cooper who scored 51.5, not ideal. Also not ideal, having The Browns kicker who left the game on my active roster. Also also not ideal, having Calvin Riddley & Jordan Love on my bench. Purdy / Deebo / Barkley / Darren Waller (yeah right) need to go off for me to stand any sort of chance. The fantasy football gods have bestowed a week of great shame upon me. At least Miami beat those damn dirty Cowboys.

Having both Gabe Davis & George Pickens on my bench in my fantasy football playoffs, not ideal.

This is a business based on pretending you hate someone and fake fighting them. Guess what, there's gonna be dudes you really hate mixed in there too. Your job is still to fake fight them. It's not mature and conducive to success to say I will only fake fight the people I like. Jericho got into a fist fight with Lesnar in 2014. They still worked a match after. It's not the end of the world or some pile of gross shit that they we mature enough to say we don't like each other but let's not let that interfere with what our job is supposed to be. You can chalk it up to people romanticizing what the business used to be, but that's disingenuous. You can like the positive progression the business has made and still think The Bucks not being willing to do their job with a co-worker is them being immature. That doesn't mean you're advocating for bar fights and workers beating the shit out of fans because they're heels. Or fans stabbing the bad guys. It's not as black & white as you're making it out to be.

Anddd I'm out. The goal posts keep moving. My overarching point has been the same from the beginning. There's too many titles & they (AEW, since when I use a they you seem to think it's a nebulous group and not a defined subject I'm referencing) haven't defined what one is more important than any others. I haven't wavered from that. Even adding supporting arguments from another instance in history when fans complained about too many belts. But you'll hand waive away anything that doesn't fit your side with a witty and eloquent variation of nuhh uhh. Ludicrous argument? WWE absolutely has a strict hierarchy. They use it in their story telling allllll the time. Reigns title is 1A. WCH is 1B. IC is 2A. US is 2B. They (WWE, since again you will point this as a nebulous they instead of the obvious subject) have used the IC Title's importance in so many stories over the years this isn't up for subjective think pieces. It's what they (WWE) have presented on screen, in canon. Hence why multiple times Honky's reign length has been used in stories (Gunther & Santino specifically) and whoever has the US Title reign length hasn't been used. So with that I'm resting my case in this conversation. Feel free to hand waive the whole post away. You've done so well doing that up until this point lol.

This is seemingly becoming a very circular discussion because I list out reasons and supporting thoughts and you just go nuu uhhh. The bolded above again is apples to oranges. The IC Title has always clearly been the most important non world title in WWE. They have always given that heightened importance over any other non-world title. So there was a time that existed (ten years after the US title debuted) that both were secondary titles under the same unified brand that you're referencing... it was never in doubt the IC Title was always more important than the US Title. Again this doesn't even fit what the original argument was about. Because they explained the purpose of The US Title and where it lied in the hierarchy when it debuted, ten years before the time frame you're asking about. As for the second part, maybe it's an age thing. I was online during the Invasion. It was absolutely the number two complaint behind WWE not securing the biggest WCW stars for the Invasion. It got railed against all the time at the time. If you're younger and didn't live through that period online I could see how that could be in doubt for you. But if you visited any message boards in 2001 it was a consistent source of complaint and frustration.

But actually it's not their right. They are employees of a company. I don't get to go into work and be like I can't stand this person I'm not gonna work with them today. I get fired if I do that. It's not gross or cynical at all to say if you're going to stay employed here you have to listen to your boss and do the job he asks you to do. We can all litigate Brawl Out to we're all blue in the face. But they didn't have to storm into Punk's locker room that night. Even if Punk was outrageously out of line with his comments at the scrum (he was), and even if he threw the first punch (all accounts say he did), they're guilty here too. If I storm up to someone who said something negative about me at work and an altercation breaks out, we're all getting fired. Because I was in the wrong too. This idealistic thought that they shouldn't be made to work with someone they don't like is unrealistic. They should be made to work with whoever the boss thinks will make the most money with them. And if they don't like it they don't have to stay. They get paid seven figures a year. Maybe eight now after their renewal. They don't also get to cherry pick every aspect of their work day.

There's a long standing history of some of the most money making stars in the business not being good in the ring at all. We're a generation or two past that now. But to say it can't be done again I think is a little naive. You either have the It Factor or you don't. Ultimate Warrior had it. Goldberg had it. Jade has it. You don't HAVE TO BE the most technically sound worker to get over and make yourself & the company a bunch of money. Everyone agrees Jade has that aura. And AEW knew it too. They debuted her in a celebrity match with Shaq. They gave her a win streak. But they just never pulled the trigger on her having a run on top of the division. WWE is going to make a ton of money for her and off of her. But no one knows if she's gonna be Goldberg or if she's gonna be Ryback. Gotta give her that sink or swim moment. And AEW just never did. Hey maybe with hindsight we'll all be able to say AEW were right. But I think the easy money is on WWE being able to get that top of the division run out of her when the time is right.

It's apples and oranges because wehn WWE debuted the European Title the IC Title had a 15 year history of being the number 2 title. It had always been portrayed as the springboard to stardom. Savage, Warrior, Bret Hart, & HBK had all had reigns that defined that title's importance and was important steps in their journey upward. AEW didn't have that established history. Zero TNT champions went on to be AEW World Champion. When WWE debuted the US Title it's purpose was clear, it was Smackdown's version of the IC title. A number two for the number two brand. WWE is very good about giving purpose and meaning to titles that debuted. Even ones you knew weren't important. Like The Hardcore Title & 24/7 Title. You knew why they were there and if they were important (they werent). Even now. We all know Reigns' title is the top title. But when the new WHC was created everyone instantly knew it was there to be the top title for Raw. IC & US both have more history and prestige than a new title, but they explained what the purpose of this new title was. I thunk ultimately this is an agree to disagree discussion. Because your viewpoint is that most viewers don't care about that kind of thing. And my viewpoint is that they do. Everyone pretty much universally pans the Invasion angle and one of the biggest complaints is that there were too many belts. There's actually more titles in AEW & ROH right now than there was in 2001 for WWE & WCW. That's crazy. But again no disrespect meant if you don't agree. We just have two different starting points for what we think the audience cares about.

1) Christian could have been carrying around any title. There's nothing about the story that dictated Luchasaurus needed to win the TNT belt for Christian to walk around with. You're missing the point that literally any belt could have been put into that story and nothing changes. 2) I don't understand your Samoa Joe mention here. But since your brought him up, his reign ended by voluntary forfeit. Couldn't he have done the voluntary forfeit sooner and ROH TV Title be the belt chosen to do the Christian story? 3) How is The International Title being number 3 at the start obvious? How is it being the number 2 title now obvious? None of that is obvious. It's a matter of opinion because AEW has never defined what title is where in a hierarchy. Well Mox & OC main evented All Out with it you might say. Ok. Christian & Darby main evented Wrestle Dream with the TNT Title. It's not at all clear or obvious what belt is considered number 2 by AEW themselves.

My plans fell through and I couldn't go to the Giants v Saints game today. Thank god. That was ugly. A kicker FG & a punter FG are your only points? So very frustrating.

I'm currently having a discussion about the belts in this thread and neither side of the issue is doing snark or push back. So that disputes that any criticism of issues is automatically returned with snark. I don't even think the most diehard AEW fans would deny a lot of what you're saying about ticket sales and pure facts like that. I think the vibe your posts have given off in the recent past in just this thread (not everywhere, not always, just this conversation) isn't so much a conversation as it is a confrontation. You have a lot of valid points. 3k people in 10k seat buildings looks bad no matter what company does it as an example. But the way you present it is more that it's an undisputed fact that your side of the argument is the only rational side. I think we all feel like that sometimes but that's not entirely true for any of us. Like I agree AEW looks bad losing Jade & Cody. They were day 1 homegrown kind of AEW projects. Cody was the whole identity of the company in a lot of ways. And he went from a meh presentation in AEW to a star in WWE. Jade has a huge upside and bright future. They were patient and treated her like a big deal ad she lefgt without really giving anything back. Punk tho I think that's debatable. I have already stated my way to handle it in TK's shoes is get them in a room and fix it. TK rode the fence too long and tried to keep everyone happy. But I don't think AEW looks bad here, I think Punk does. Gigantic hypocrite. But the way you receive that shouldn't be that I'm challenging you with push back or snark. That's all. The old JR saying about McMahon. Remember go in and converse with the old man, not confront.

Is that the story they're going with? I've missed a few TVs. I know Yuta & Hook have a thing going. But it didn't seem like either belt was involved yet. Couldn't the story also be Yuta takes the FTW Title and trashes it because it's not what a Purist would want? That's still in the neighborhood of something fitting what I'm talking about. A thematic story based on the identity & purpose of the title.

Christian has only had the TNT title like two months now. Don't get confused and lump Luchasaurus' reign as his lol. So to answer this I don't see either reign as anything that couldn't have existed without the titles they have. Christian could have the exact same Patricarchy story without any title involved. OC could have worked a bunch of TV matches without a title and done the same worn down story with the big Mox challenge. To emphasize the point a bit, what would have changed if the titles were swapped? Could Christian's story been the same with the International Title? Yes. Could OC's story have been the same with the TNT Title? Yes. It's all interchangeable and undefined. If you have titles you have to give them purpose for them to have a meaning to a story. Without purpose they all blend together and don't mean very much. It's not just more psychologically satisfying, it's necessary to tell coherent stories. If I had to go back 12 months and scrap one, I'd scrap The International Title. You run OC's same story with The TNT Title and your run Christian's same story with either The FTW Title or ROH TV Title. Or vice verse. Because they're all interchangeable and meaningless. Doing that doesn't change one single story beat in either story. Because the titles themselves aren't essential to the story. Any title fills the role equally. Which is kind of the problem I'm trying to point out. JCP had three separate style stories going because the three titles were different. AEW run the same style stories with every belt. Out of all the secondary titles in the whole entire company, The ROH Pure Title is the only one with a definable identity. And that helps greatly in telling the story of WHY the guys go after that title go after it. It's the technical wrestling purist's title to show they are the best at technical wrestling. That's what titles need. A thematic purpose to exist beyond 'oh look a new belt'.

I'm writing this message from the future, Thursday to be exact, and they do now lol.

Between ROH & AEW there's 8 men's singles titles. That's way too many. Each brand should have a world title, a mid-card title, and mayyybbbeee some sort of non-traditional gimmick title. In ROH's case World, TV, & Pure is fine. AEW should be World, International, and FTW which should take on no DQ hardcore rules to set it apart OR have the TNT Title but have it take on gimmicked TV Title rules like 10min time limits which would elad it to being a more sprint / lucha oriented title. Can anyone even decipher what the hierarchy is? What's more important International or TNT? Is Continental better than those? Worse? Even if you disagree with there being too many titles, I would hope you'd at least agree there needs to be a better defined hierarchy. In the old NWA JCP days you knew World title was most important, US was secondary because it made you #1 contender, TV was after that because it may not be as important as the other two but you're on TV every week making more money if you win. The way everything is presented outside of the AEW World Title is basically 'here's a belt, these two guys want it' without any specified stakes or purpose or implications for what title means what. They are the utter definition of props.

We all agree AEW has hit a rough patch. Everyone has their own ideas on what will help dig them out of the hole they're in. It's pretty obvious TK's plan is... moarrrrr beltsssss. Let me put on my counting hat for a second. AEW Titles (9) -Men's World Title -International Title -TNT Title -Continental Title -FTW Title -Women's World Title -TBS Title -World Tag Titles -World Trios Titles ROH Titles (7) -Men's World Title -Pure Title -Men's TV Title -Women's World Title -Women's TV Title -World Tag Titles -World Six Man Titles Non-AEW Titles on TV often (5) -AAA Mega Title -AAA Tag Titles -NJPW TV Title -NJ Strong Title -IWGP Tag Titles Dude. AEW / ROH have 16 belts now. 16 regularly defended and canon titles. Then there's also the ones often defended. We're up to 21. And that's not even all of the outside titles used this year. 21 sets of belts is way too fucking many. None of the belts mean anything outside of the AEW men & women's World Titles. More belts is not the answer. Because if everyone is a champion than no one is a champion. It's just crazy that there are that many belts rotating on the different shows. It drives my OCD crazy and annoys me to no end. I think this ties in to the greater discussion being had in the thread too because there has got to be fans out there that don't follow super closely and every time they tune in there's new belts and new champions. That can be off-putting to viewers. There's this uncontrolled sloppy chaos vibe that TK's booking puts out. And this ties into that. As does starting and stopping stories. It's all connected and needs worked on. You shouldn't be adding more belts. You should be merging belts and giving structure to what purpose they serve.

I'm still not sure how you fire a coach that's coached 15+ seasons and never had a losing one. They've basically been beaten by math most seasons they didn't get to the playoffs. I don't like The Steelers much, but I do like Mike Tomlin a lot. He's not some scheming genius. But he's just a really solid and accountable dude that always gets winning seasons out of pretty bad rosters. And this roster is one of the worst. They've always been carried by defensive units but you have to have competent offensive play to compliment it and they just don't. And haven't for a few years. That feels like a GM issue more than coaching.

This is my own personal theory, not backed up by any facts yet. Just a gut feeling I feel safe throwing out there based on what's been reported. $34 million in losses is the estimate. My theory (again just a theory) is if Collision wasn't a thing that gets them to a profitable year. They doubled their production & travel costs by doing a second live show. Think about that. Buying the transmission time. Renting double the buildings. Hauling the equipment and paying employees to do the setup. Double the plane tickets for talent. A second live show that does not move tickets like the other show. A second live show that does not drive ads like the other show. A second show that gave them cause to expand their roster and keep signing more than they need. And on a slightly different note, the fiscal irresponsibility of ROH doesn't help the problem. The AEW company is owned by Tony, Shahid, and possibly minority stake by WBD and maybe others. ROH is own solely by TK. He's using AEW books to rent buildings he's using for his own company to run. I know it all blurs together but it's kind of shady when you do the digging. ROH is getting free accompaniment by piggy backing off of AEW's rent buys & production costs. And the bloated roster doesn't really have a discernible split in talent expenses. It appears to all fall on AEW's books since it's all shared talent. So long story short scrap ROH as a brand, scrap Collision as a show, and you're golden now. As is, even a 2x rights increase I don't see them getting to a profitable year. Not at the current infrastructure & spending.

I don't know how all the math shakes out but The Giants technically being only one game back of a playoff spot is mind blowing. Tommy DeVitto baby As it stands now I'll be at The Giants vs Saints game this weekend. I am pumped that there's still meaning to it because a couple weeks ago it was looking like an enhancement match on an episode of Superstars in 1987.

Well you're not wrong lol. I don't believe in becoming a wrestler as a hobby. This is a business for professionals. No not everyone is going to make it. But anyone in the business should be striving to make a living off of this. So if WWE isn't personally something he's striving for... then like why is he in the business? That's ny basis for why I think this is so dumb. Maybe he's got a bad look & body now. But there's plenty of guys that got good got serious and transformed their bodies. He's shooting himself in the foot if his line of thinking is 'well WWE wouldn't want me anyways'. What WWE want can change on a whim. Don't limit one of the biggest sources of income in the industry just because this mark lawyer wants to have a story to tell on a Cornette podcast.

So I'm very much for workers making as much money as possible. I'm also anti cooperate entities for the most part. But this trademark issue is some bad business. The trademark owner is basically getting manipulated by Cornette crony Stephen New. That dude just wants to have a story to sit back and laugh with Cornette about. He isn't taking the worker's best interest in mind. You wouldn't send a cease & desist or an injunction making them blur it if you were trying to make a deal. You'd allow them to keep using it while you negotiate. Basically this Huffmanly kid is gonna end up black balled from WWE for the way this is being handled. Even if he comes to an agreement with WWE they will hold a grudge over the trouble it caused. Just a monumentally bad faith way to handle it if you're trying to look out for the worker's best interests. He may still get a good payout but will never be considered for a job there ever.

Wonder how the naming conventions go. If XFL is the brand name ala NFL, would the conferences be the XFC and the.... UFC lol. Have they mentioned anything about the merged companies name yet?