BloodyChamp

It was an incredibly stupid heap of bubblegum pop, which stuck because that kind of thing had never been done in wrestling. Every promo ended with somebody telling somebody they were going to stick something up the other’s ass, topping the plateau of 1 telling the other that they were going to whoop their ass. Then The Rock came along and hooked the sideways phrase onto it HAW MAN I NEVER SEEN ANYTHING LIKE IT is what the average fan then thought. Of course when you compare it to Starrcade 97 which had been built towards for all those months it was...ah you know lol!

I’m not the WWF historian but wasn’t that coming from a mile away? I think it might have even been a storyline that played out on a syndicated show or something.

WCW never reaches it’s peak without going head to head with the WWF. Eric Bischoff being a power hungry little shit doesn’t happen if never gets the WWF in his sights while somebody else finances the whole thing. You could also argue that WCW doesn’t die without that happening also but that’s another can of worms.

That had to have happened before. I can’t remember it off the top of my head, but it had to have no? Even if it wasn’t somebody who was going to go undefeated? Did Prince Iaukea have an entrance vs Regal? Anyway it’s still not the same as the Mulkeys.

Another 1 I’ve posted before would have been epic no matter what anybody says, without getting into some long term ripple effects. If this happened the NWO possibly never happens. The Giant marches in after falling off of the building at Halloween Havoc 95, takes everything Hogan’s got for 5 minutes out of his bag of punches and face rakes, Giant no sells it, Hogan grabs and chair and smashes him with it which the referee just stands and watches in disbelief because it’s not hurting the Giant. The Giant grabs Hogan choke slams him and pins him. No matter how stupid the angle before was, people would have all but bought it had that happened. The few who wouldn’t have bought it would have marked out even harder because Hogan got pinned in spite of the fact that they didn’t buy it. From then on it’s such a “fantasy” that it’s just silly to try and book because then you have the best heel champion ever, who if booked properly will produce the best face champion ever down the road. Imagine Eddie Guerrero beating the undefeated Giant at Starrcade 96 then getting attacked by Chris Benoit right after the match. EDIT: while you anxiety laugh at this in disbelief, remember that the overbooked schmoz that followed was a worse display than The Giant falling off the building. It gets repeated in all of the alltime worst moments lists but never connected with this show for some reason. It’s usually referred to by the live debut of somebody whose name starts with a Y lol!

O yeah...easy. Nothing against the Rock but those other guys were more responsible for the initial turn in the war. Meanwhile of course you had WCW being WCW so you probably could take any of those guys out and the WWF would have still been successful.

So many people argue about what actually killed WCW. Many people don’t say Starrcade. They say it started then turn, they say but they still made money in 98, then the discussion spins into the merger which is something else. We’re talking about what killed WCW the functional wrestling and entertainment outlet that we knew. I say it was Starrcade and here’s 1 major reason that people overlook. Starrcade is where the lifelong fans did 1 of these 2 things. They either said that’s it I’m out or the did what I did. More on that in a minute. The people who said they were out were just tired of seeing Sting’s buildup never payoff. There were reasons for it before like his injury, Flair bolting then Luger bolting, and more. At Starrcade 97 they finally had it built and ready to happen like they’d always wanted and it was going to work. It was just impossible to mess up. So that combined with those fans growing up and such they were just done. They turned it off that time like they had before in spurts, but this time it was for good. Now I wasn’t quite grown yet but I knew it was fake and I was slowly learning about how it all worked. When Starrcade 97 happened I finally asked my teacher who had been my source for inside stuff just what the f^%# happened. He’d been sparing me the ickiest details for my sake until then when he finally told me. That’s when I was done. I did watch Nitro regularly for a while yet so they got my ratings but no more of my money and I wasn’t watching with the same intensity, and I wasn’t watching any of the other 40 shows they had. Also I agree WCW had the best ideas and were the best at initially executing them. Alot of times they actually wussed out more than they messed it up. Some of the stuff that didn’t get past the drawing board was epic IMO, like the NWO vs Horsemen Millenium/End of the World match. What a Wargames that would have been. Then some of the edgier stuff they did do was whooshed by so fast because they wussed out like the Ric Flair heart attack.

Well WHOOOO and AHOO AHOO AHOO!!!!!!

I’m all over this thread later. I’m only responding to this because it was Starrcade 97 at the first reply so I just had to. But yeah...seriously this. I could have even lived with the Montreal stuff had Sting already had Hogan beat after a ref knockout by the NWO. Then when Patrick woke up he did a real fast count, real meaning it actually happened as much I mean real fast like the speed lol! To save face for Patrick they could have made it look like he thought Sting had Hogan pinned like he had just before he was knocked out. Then Bret Hart comes in and they do it like they tried to do it to start with from that point on. And here’s another wrinkle. This all happened like it was supposed to after Hogan tried to weasel out of it and THE BOYS threatened to beat his ass if he didn’t do business. When Eric takes his side they say they’re all walking out if it doesn’t happen. Theoretically Nash then wouldn’t have weaseled out of his job, or Raven, and Dean would have gave a shit for atleast the length of his match before going to his wife and child.

This is copied from the Hot Takes thread about Superbrawl 91. The tag team match should have been the Superbrawl main event. That match was an impossible dream match at the time. The adults wanted to see it and the children just wanted to comprehend it. Neither had seen anything like it except for the rare fans who watched both WCW and WWF and had saw Hogan/Warrior a year ago. Hogan/Warrior went on to overshadow it because it was turned to shit in the last minute of the match like every big match WCW ever promoted but it was that big and has remained that much of a favorite by the smarks and the people who grew up and rewatched all this stuff. Then when it was over there were so many easy ways to wrap it up and keep right on with the whole Sting/Luger/Steiners friendship story arch. You had the Hardliners messing with the Steiners which was how they originally reestablished the friendship if you remember. Flair could have been a part of it somehow, and it would have been better than that dumb stuff with Fujinami at the time. The NJPW connection could have still been utilized though. Sting was feuding with Muta over there and we all remember what the Steiners were doing over there at the time. So many possibilities. So that was the hot take. Down to the warm details I would have liked to have seen this. Scott pins Luger during the main event and the show goes off the air as Luger gets up furious, but not violent towards the Steiners. Sting and Ric are down exhausted and Scott is exhausted but still celebrating typical exhausted baby face style. Then as soon as the first TV show hits they announce that the match has been signed for Clash XV. Promote the heck out of it nonstop with Luger and Scott flexing their heel tendencies towards 1 another but never busting lose with them as Sting and Ric hang around but don’t interfere, occasionally commenting on backing their partner, gloves are off in the ring etc type talk. Then 2 weeks before Clash XV Sting and Ric can’t be polite anymore and start fighting on TV, which leads to Scott and Luger to break them up, while the announcers go omg they’ve been trying to keep Luger and Scott from killing each other now Luger and Scott are trying to keep them from killing each other etc etc etc and Luger and Scott manage to break them up and get them to the back. Next week they say Sting/Ric is signed. Have whoever they want Sting to feud with next attack both of them 10 minutes in. Go ahead and make it Nikita like at Superbrawl, after Luger had beat him clean in a WCWSN main event or Omni show, ending that feud. Nikita’s justification next week on TV could be about the same as it was at Superbrawl, that he was just trying to ruin the party because he was mad lol! But anyway Luger and Scott make the save. Sting and Ric chase Nikita to the back which leaves Scott and Luger in the ring. The bell just rings and they start whaling on each other, and the match is on after this commercialbreak lol! This could have flew at GAB 91 also IMO. That’schanging alot of history I realize but it’s just a dream lol!

Not all of Bill Watt’s mancrushes did better than becoming a Horseman, and that includes some of them that did alright.

I said it in another thread recently that I don’t really like Conrad. I love hearing him challenge Eric Bischoff on stuff though. He doesn’t mince words in the process either lol! Vince was always a Flair fan which he’s proved many times but a little of Flair went a long way with him when Flair was working for him. There’s no way he stayed IMO. We all know the Savage TV thing story and Bret‘s gripes which wouldn’t have helped. Mongo was cool but potential super worker he was not. He could have been a rassler but I doubt he would have went farther than he did already (which was still pretty far).

Has The Mulkeys win vs The Gladiators ever been done again by anybody else? Lol what there have been many upsets The Kid vs Razor, Iaukea vs Regal, etc. That’s not what that match was though which I will get to. There were also other kinds of upsets like Goldberg vs Hugh Morrus and Tommy Rich vs Harley Race. The Gladiators were promoted on TV for a few weeks before to arrive from a phantom territory that they were champions of IIRC. They might have even had belts lol! They were going to be in the Crockett Cup before they lost to the Mulkeys. I don’t think straight jobbers have ever beat a previously, seriously, promoted opponent any other time. That also excludes many Raven’s Nest and Flock members losing. If I’m wrong about the Gladiators being promoted on TV part, there’s still the matter of them being masked gimmicks vs jobbers. However bad they ended up bombing Arachnaman, The Juicer, etc didn’t lose their first match on TV vs a jobber. Also many of those guys had made up backstories about being wrestlers like The Gladiators did, as opposed to The Blackmailer, Cruel Commection etc. I know about David Sammartino vs Ron Shaw but I really only know it happened. I don’t know that whole story. Also I thought I would dump this here since a “Mulkeys” search didn’t give me much else.

Chono vs Dave was a neat little move. It had been all 1 shot jobbers on the Pro vs Onoo’s guys for all those weeks leading up to Starrcade. This was the main event of the last Pro, the Saturday morning before Starrcade. EDIT: Wow was I wrong on that one. Just looked it up. Also saw where Sasaki lost to OMG in a dark match “after” Starrcade?

That’s pretty old for a rassler concerning ring work

I just found this. Apparently this is an old Podcast but I don’t do Podcasts off the assembly line. I YouTube what I YouTube and Google what I Google whenever I want to know what I want to know. Then like any normal human being I click on something else in the “more like this” sections of all of those services, and not what I originally searched for lol! That’s what happened here. I’ve watched many of these Conrad clips and the guy annoys me to say the least, but holy f*^% did he get after it here at around 6:50. 6:50 is where I’d start to be totally in context but wow. About dang time too.

Dick Murdoch was about like Dusty...old before the old guys we grew up watching were old. He was pretty good in the ring before he got old from what I’ve seen. Also like Dusty, the oldest NWA tapes you can find aren’t old enough if you want to find evidence of this lol! And he was just the total epitome of cool ole redneck rassler. And I wouldn’t count out the KKK status but I would count out the card. Lol KKK card.

Jeff Jarrett is the most boring, unfun, untough, unanything a wrestler is supposed to be. I never got people’s obsession with him besides him sticking up Vince for $$$. He was able to be a Horseman and pretend to be Kerry Von Erich in Texas before he even stuck Vince though. There are good wrestlers who don’t even get to do that much.

If Mongo hadn’t hurt Regal he wouldn’t get any flack. Whoever decided to make the piledriver the finishing move of a not professional wrestler is who needs to be roasted. Sid wasn’t a bad horsemen either but of course he also had a certain real life incident that hurt his legacy, especially concerning the Horsemen. Chris and Dean were perfect Horsemen. What they didn’t have in common with Flair they had in common with Arn, which was a characteristic of the early Horsemen that everybody forgot with all the Horsemen that came after a bunch of young hot heads.

I have another hot take. Chris Benoit vs Booker T sucked. The matches were alright but add the feud up and it’s sucked. They didn’t have chemistry at all. I loved the TV Title but it was a step down for Benoit and it was limbo for Booker T who it wasn’t a step down for only because he hadn’t been elevated above it yet. Both guys had better matches with others. Booker T was so good for a guy his size that people forget how huge he was. His US Title vs BBP was an alltime great super heavyweight match. Benoit’s best matches against other guys make his Booker T matches look like crap. Chris Benoit vs many guys in WCW at the time was a match people would have paid to watch 7 times in a row. Make it a main event and...well that was as big of a fantasy then as it is now lol! They chose Booker T. Man imagine a best of 7 series vs Eddie. Heck it might have been to much. They might have proposed it and Hogan said naw we can’t do that because yeah lol!

If this were a theory about Kamala, I’d totally buy it based on his FB page that he had. He was a lowkey genius like that it seemed who gave 0 shits lol!

Scott Hall and Kerry Von Erich of all people had some of the best worked punches that looked real. Bret Hart did also. Bobby Eaton’s were closed fists that he opened and slapped with at the last second. There was something cool about them for some reason, but that reason wasn’t because they were good strikes lol!

The first 2 long paragraphs from @John E. Dynamite...yeah lol

I haven’t seen the 30 minute match there in that group. I’ll have to check that out. I actually have that first match with the blooper in it on DVD back from when Micah Watts was selling them lol!

In this same thread I mentioned a certain hot take about Luger if you remember. Flair obviously did alot to help Sting and Luger, especially Sting, but as far as bare bones wrestling and getting better at it, he actually held them back in the long run. His Ray Stevens story that he always repeated (if he didn’t do that 1 neat move the fans weren’t happy), he had a point but it wasn’t something that every wrestler that ever who came after him should have lived by every match. I also think Flair kinda came up with that as he got older to cover up his limitations but that’s another post. Every time he wrestled Sting after 1988 you could see Sting just doing what Grandpa wanted. He’d went on to have all those matches with Vader, the Steiners, Muta etc then when it came time to wrestler Flair again it was time to get the script back out and memorize it. The truth is I get the Flair criticisms as time went on and I never liked Sting and Luger being green as an excuse. But I also know how great he was in his prime, and that he wasn’t what I’d call bad until the 2000s.