Greggulator

This guy is so white you guys and white people suck more than that snooze fest of a SHIELD/WYATT match that Gregg has such a boner for amirightfullcircle Nobody's saying that Shield/Wyatts sucked. I agree that it was a great match. But "one of the greatest matches of all time" is a much higher standard and warrants greater scrutiny. Here is the defense of my dissertation on the subject: I should have added in there my argument about NXT and development. So many FCW/NXT folks wrestle with great expressions and in character. The Shield and The Wyatts are obviously the best of the dudes who spent time in developmental. But even folks probably slotted for more midcard acts -- Aiden English, Tyler Breeze, Bailey -- have those down. We're going to see more of this type of character work in the coming years. We're already seeing it with minor acts like Summer Rae and Sandow. There won't be too many matches like Shield/Wyatts. But there are going to be a lot of really fun moments up and down the card with wretlers expressing themselves beyond traditional selling.

I sort of want them to turn the Real Americans face, but it would have to include turning Zeb face without getting rid of too many of the aspects that make him entertaining. They can make him the lovable old uncle who is crazy and you just have to look beyond that because he's not a bad guy overall.

Haters are going to hate. Whatever. I'm overenthusiastic about something I love. I'm the same way in the other stuff I love, too. I gave up being cynical ages ago. There are plenty of things I don't like about the WWE and I've posted about them. But I'd rather focus on the good and enjoy it. Ye gads! What a novel idea. To be enthusiastic about things one likes! I only wish everyone could feel the same way about life. If being miserable and filling your days obsessing over HHH booking himself over or whatever, I can't help you in that department. Feel free. I'm sorry that "getting enjoyment out of entertainment" is so offensive to so many. As far as Wyatts/Shield -- go read my in-depth, hard-hitting review on the EC topic. That match has so many wonderful arcs and stories and callbacks. It's the first true masterpiece from guys who solely came up from WWE developmental. (Yes, I know Dean and Seth and Harper but they put in FCW and NXT time). And it stands out because they have so much characterization in the match. Like, way more than other great matches. I mean, the Cesaro/Cena match was fantastic. But other than "This body part of mine hurts" and "I have to scream because I'm really strong and about to win!" there wasn't a lot of characterization within that. That's why I love Shield/Wyatts so much. If you see it differently, go ahead. But I bring my arguments to the table.

Yes, this. Emma's also really aloof and self-centered. Normally, these aren't good traits in a person. But we all know someone who is just a total self-obsessed person that you're totally fine with because they're just so quirky and weird and would never hurt anyone's feelings. They're just who they are and it's your problem if the person irritates you. Bailey also works because she's great. She's a huge fanboy (girl?) for everyone she meets and it opens her up to damage. But she's realizing she belongs on that stage but is staying true to being a nice person. Sami Zayn falls into the trap. He's the best possible version of who we are. He's confident, brave and wants to be the best. But he also looks like us and is a total dork. He's possibly even better than Daniel Bryan at being that avatar for the wrestling fan. it's really great stuff. We're not cool people. Cool people don't like this stuff. And they're not afraid to have faces in NXT who aren't cool.

Not arguable at all. Fair point. Second place.

Only if done right. Literally only one person in WWE has actually been elevated by going over HHH, and he's currently in the heatless main event. We'll agree to disagree. But Benoit and Jericho's careers were made by going over HHH in that tag match alone. Those guys were already great but they became PPV Main Event guys off of HHH tearing his quad. The Rock doesn't become The Rock without the DX/Nation feud anchored by his beef with HHH. (Inversely, HHH doesn't become who he is without The Rock.) I'm sure I can find other examples.

I'm the biggest Wyatts mark there is and have been since dude had Eli Cottonwood under his spell and he was quoting Danzig songs while referencing the Biblical apple. (Which he did for a bit). And I'm totally fine with an overcoming the odds Cena beating Bray at WrestleMania. I'd rather he not, since I kinda want to leave my life behind and wear a Devo jumpsuit and join their ranks, but Cena doing his thing at WrestleMania is completely fine. Bray and crew will be fine with a loss. Look at how crazy everyone gets for them. They've been here since SummerSlam (but, mystically, all along). That's not even a year and they're arguably the most over act in the company. The presentation they have is amazing. But all three of those guys are so friggin' great at the character acting side of the business that it's next level. Bray also writes his own promos, supposedly. I really want Terry Gross to interview him out-of-character. There is so much weirdo theology in the whole thing (The sheep mask is Bray leading us lambs to the slaughter, despite humanity being a virus he's still Breaking Out In Love, the lantern shows he's the true and only light of the world, him calling Cena a "golden calf" on Twitter last night, etc.) that I want to know everything in his upbringing. There's also a lot of class conflict in his act (especially in the introductory promos and on Twitter, and the "Down With The Machine" stuff). Jim Jones gained his following by being a socialist preacher. Okay, I need to actually do work and not talk about the wonders of this gimmick. But, contrary to what dude said before, this is the most gloriously subtle and subversive act the WWE has ever produced.

I really wish Reigns and Bray just worked a bit faster in the first half of their match last night. Those guys really tag each other with punches. It felt hate-filled but it could have had a bit more of a total brawl instead of just a slugfest. It picked up after the blackout/Rollins flip from nowhere (it makes sense he'd hide in wait to protect his boy, since The Wyatts interfering was obvious) and a returning Dean with a new look leather jacket further making him look like a great loose cannon to help out his bros despite their animosity towards him was great. That stuff got a really good pop and saved the segment. The crowd should have responded to that match more than they did. I think that's what was counted on. Everyone craps on Batista (and they should because, ugh, he's the worst) but no one has crapped on Reigns ever and the Husky chants stopped after about 15 seconds during his debut. Those guys are also entangled in the best feud in years AND coming off a match that, after rewatching it and breaking it down, is legitimately meeting the initial hype as one of the greatest matches of all-time. (Man, that match was so well-structured in terms of having so many sections build and build and build with some of the best facial expressions and character acting within the confines of an actual match. More is on the way in the years to follow since the developmental league places so much on that. Not every match will be an epic six-man affair, but even mid-card matches will have that emphasis on characterization the more guys come up, and it's awesome. But I digress.) But, yeah, Reigns and Bray could have audibled a bit to get the crowd into things. They're still really young in terms of wrestling on a big stage, especially in singles matches, though. It's understandable. Also, they should just turn Batista heel. I think the PPV showed that heel versus heel can get over with a crowd. Batista's only good run ever was when he was an aloof, Hollywood wannabe. Him in that role against the petulant brat Orton is at least an interesting dynamic. It turns the "this dude is the worst" boos into something that fits the match, at least. I think, though, Batista has at least hinted that he's been a heel since the get go. His posture and the like at the Rumble and his debut and etc. show that a little bit. Plus, those pants.

And they've had shitty crowds for eons. It has nothing to do with Bryan not winning Royal Rumble or vanquishing all his foes in the Raw after SummerSlam. It is what it is -- some crowds buy into the product and are fun, others crap on Bray Wyatt vs. Roman Reigns. How do you work around that? Or even predict it?

Brain fart in my writing there. Ugh. I have no idea what I was trying to say. Beating HHH is a huge, huge, huge thing. You know how everyone gripes about HHH getting on all the DVD covers and the like? Well, guess what that makes him? One of the kayfabe best. Beating him on the biggest stage is huge. AND, also, keep in mind there are still plenty of ways to make it a three way match.

I don't know exactly how someone can feel a crowd wince. I did see the entire arena eating out of Bryan's hands, just as they have for the past nine months. Like I said in another thread -- I will rip this angle to shreds if Bryan doesn't have the belt after SummerSlam. He has threatened HHH a bunch of times. This isn't some angle that came out of left field. Bryan vs. HHH has been the driving part of the story. I know for some reason HHH's involvement in anything gets wrestling fans with access to public libraries upset and everything, but beating HHH at WM is a huge f'n thing. You know who couldn't do it twice? Taker.

Reigns and Bray were involved in a Match of the Decade type of event last night. Tonight, two minutes into the thing, they get the first Husky Harris chants heard since The Wyatt Family debut. How do you possibly deal with that? And why would you pay money to do that?

What, you don't think the girl who renamed the DDT the "Girl Bye" can't go?

Back to writing about what happened instead of what could -- I'm rewatching Shield vs. Wyatts right now. Man, there are so many things in this that I don't remember seeing before. Case in point: Rollins dodges a charge from Bray in the corner and gets the foot up -- a great callback because Bray hit that move earlier in the match. Rollins then goes up top for a hope spot, but Bray catches him and just tosses him with a chokeslam. Bray goes to cover and Ambrose breaks up the fall and is going crazy and then Harper just flattens him with a stiff boot. Then Harper returns to the corner. That Harper/Ambrose thing is just one of those subtle touches that really brings it up a level -- these guys are tossing grenades during pinfall breakups, and any opportunity they can to hurt the other guy they'll take. Reigns also does inspired apron work when Rollins is going for a hot tag, stomping on the steps. I mean, there has been great apron work before but Reigns REALLY put it over like he would do absolutely anything to get in that match. It wasn't just a spot for the fans to clap with. It was him rallying his own man. Just intense apron work. What's also great about that Top Rope Geman thing where Rollins landed on his feet -- Bryan actually hit that on Rollins in their crazy great singles match last year, if you remember. So there's a little memory recall that adds to the believability of the potential success of the move. Reigns stuff after the hot tag was great. I loved him getting tossed to the floor but knowing Rowan was in position for the apron dropkick. He didn't even break stride. It felt like one of "the great ones see the play before it develops" moments. The big dive sequence was so awesome, too. It gets set up after Dean gets in. He dropkicks Harper down and then starts clubbing at Bray with his lunatic fringe offense. He goes back to the ring, hits something, and then to the floor to get some more of Bray. Then Harper does his dive -- and of course it works, because Ambrose went to the floor never guessing this big swamp monster would fly like that. And then Rollins, in true cocky aerialist fashion, has to top that with his flip. That leads to a little sequence between Reigns and Rowan where Reigns dodges a corner splash into a roll-up that is a terrific near fall. Then they both club each other at once, leading to a bit of a breather for the audience. But not for long. Because Rollins runs to the announcer tables and starts ripping it apart. The crowd goes nuts for this -- they wanted tables, they got tables. But at the same time, the danger of this match just got upped another level. We've seen table stuff so many times before, but this is built so well. There's a brawl to start, then it's a wrestling match but the emphasis is on showing intensity and character work as opposed to focusing on execution (but everything is executed marvelously well). Even the tag breakups are vicious. Everyone gets a showcase spot and they're all amplified -- Bray's floor senton, for example. The table-area stuff is so great. Harper does Reigns' thumb's up as Bray sets Rollins up for a powerbomb. But Dean comes out of nowhere and gets more licks in on Bray, keeping in form with him being the hothead sh*ttalker ("Oooooh, we're so scared!"). And somehow the intensity goes up ANOTHER level because they get into the crowd but don't stop swinging. It's been a while since I can remember that happening. Then they disappear out of sight. Reigns and Rowan have another showdown. Reigns wins ANOTHER exchange between them, including getting a Superman Punch for two. Harper and Rollins go at it, with Rollins swinging a television monitor -- now the violence is upped again, and when has THAT ever happened? Bray comes charging back and a winded Reigns is edging towards that exchange, allowing Rowan to club him from behind and hit his fallaway slam that sends Reigns to the floor. Rowan FINALLY won an exchange -- he took a lot of punishment all match long and survived. Bray then orders his monsters to the floor. There, they put Rollins through a table via a double chokeslam. It gets one of the loudest Holy Sh*t chants. I think I wrote earlier about this spot. We've seen so many insane table bumps over the years. Foley. New Jack. Sabu. Michaels. This was as relatively easy a table bump as one will ever take. Yet it got a historic pop. The payoff to the table bump was so worth it -- in a lesser match, it would have come a bit quicker. But they build JUST to that moment and it's great. And it's also really cool since Rollins is the one who put the table in play, let alone the big picture of The Shield getting its start in the same fashion. The camera doesn't really focus on Rollins too much. Instead, it comes to Bray overlooking the broken bones he's used to pave his empire. His look is just so cold and triumphant. This is why Bray Wyatt's the Mike Trout of wrestling, and somehow both a prospect and amazing all at once. His facial expressions just tell the story. He didn't actually participate in Rollins' destruction, but he's the responsible party. And now he can sense victory. Now comes the final act. Reigns has rolled into the ring and is on his knees with a look of a soldier walking up that hill -- he knows the odds are so against him, but he's going to fight, because that's all he knows how to do. That's one of the great things about Roman -- he can tell the story with his face. In a lesser version of this match, he'd start his comeback immediately. But instead, the Wyatts have control. Harper and Rowan hit their corner splashes. Then Harper kneels before Bray to tag him in -- Cole described it as "an offering" in his commentary, and it's so spot on. The ruler now gets to destroy. And now it's comeback time. Right when defeat is imminent, Reigns powers out of Sister Abigail. And if you'll recall, he was powering out of Cena's STF when the lamb's mask flashed and The Wyatts appeared and jumped Cena in the moment that led to all of this. Bray's face during this is so great. It's this look of fear and admiration at once. But it doesn't go right into Reigns powering out. Instead, Bray hits a few headbutts. Roman screams though and gets his Samoan Drop on the patriarch. This is also only the second direct interaction between Reigns and Bray the whole match. There was one near the beginning that got a crazy reaction. There was also a really great indirect one after Bray's floor senton. Reigns was out of his corner, on the floor, staring Bray down, who glared back, while Ambrose was in the corner in a frenzy. Harper and Rowan both attack, naturally, with Reigns getting the two of them out of the way. He hits a Superman Punch on Bray. Is this possible? This is the dude who beat four men at Survivor Series to win the match. This is the guy who just set the record of eliminations at The Royal Rumble. How many times has he been pinned or tapped out? Off the top of my mind, it's only once, and that was in an 11-on-3 match, of all things. He's waiting for the Spear and calls for it. But like we said before -- the numbers game came back to haunt Reigns. Harper runs in to take the Spear for his leader. The Shield, too, was built on sacrifice. But it was a sacrifice of friends/allies there to make a statement and deliver justice/make money. They were always a house of cards. Harper's sacrifice is out of religious devotion. Bray then hits his crossbody block and hits Sister Abigail without too much theatrics, but just the kiss of death. This match wasn't just a great, well-built and structured match. The facial acting of everyone involved in this really brought it up to a whole new level. The training center really has driven in the whole "wrestling as character" part of the game that has eluded so many people. The Shield and The Wyatts are really the first products of the new system. This isn't the end. It's the beginning.

I'll be bummed out if he doesn't win the belt by SummerSlam. Then I will rip the story arc mercilessly. (Injuries not withstanding.)

Well, no. He should have won it months ago. When, exactly? And then who chases Bryan after that? And where does that get you in terms of building to WrestleMania? I misspoke. What I should have said is he probably should not have lost it to Orton seconds after he won it, and then get brushed aside. Or he should have won it at HIAC when Michaels turned on him. As for what Look, don't get me wrong, I enjoy Bryan chasing the title, but then I've not really gotten to see him be chased with it in the WWE so...I don't fantasy book, but who would I have chase him? Cesaro. I'm mean if I'm going to book things then lets just totally selfish. A several month long Bryan-Cesaro program would be awesome to me. Where does it get me for Wrestlemania? I don't know. I don't know where last nights finish has got us for Wrestlemania yet either. If it ends up Kane vs Bryan then sorry, that's unsatisfying. And I think it's not this totally unreasonable thing to have a little cynicism about the WWE's booking. My issue is more one of a lack of confidence in the WWE to actually pull the trigger and then give him a chance to run with the ball (ugh, shitty mixed metaphors) , rather than cutting him off at the knees. It's great you are optimistic and cheery about everything, and I don't criticise you for it, but at the same time you can surely understand why others who don't share your outlook would be a bit less keen to give the WWE the benefit of the doubt. Okay, to take it point-by-point: 1) Bryan didn't get brushed aside. Not one bit. 2) Well, if he did win that match, there are no real heels in the narrative there to chase him. It would likely go back to Orton trying to get back at Bryan with The Authority in his path. Instead, it went a different route. It began the Wyatt Family vs. Punk/Bryan deal. And those few months of Bryan dealing with those dudes served so many wonderful purposes. The Wyatt Family got over as world beaters. Bryan ended up getting the reaction of the decade when he broke free from Bray's grasp. Both Bryan and The Family got more over because of it. Shield/Wyatts last night doesn't happen without Daniel Bryan vs. The Wyatts first. Their first interaction came when both The Shield and The Wyatts wanted Bryan and Punk. 3) I think Cesasro's the best guy in the company right now. But after SummerSlam, he wasn't ready for that spot in terms of the story structure. He was 1/2 of a tag team that was feuding with Los Matadores because their midget mascot shoved a plastic horn up the butt of his Tea Party manager. He's ready now courtesy of his win over Orton and classic with Cena. He finished fourth last night, which shows where he stands in the pecking order right now. 4) In summation: The best plot they had going forward was for Bryan to chase and not win the belt due to heel machinations. Orton won the same way against Big Show and Cena. No smark really cares about those dudes anymore (hence the Wyatts chant last night) but since Bryan's the one we're emotionally attached to, he's the one who gets the whole "getting buried" meme. This is despite him being the center of almost every episode of Raw since the spring. 5) No one knows what's happening at WrestleMania. So people complaining about that issue already are really premature. 6) People should be critical of the product. I get that. I'm critical of a lot of stuff -- I'm not a fan of the New Age Outlaws; I always thought Batista sucked; I wish Henry had something going on; I hope they get to Dustin vs. Cody, etc. So people can be critical. But for real, folks parse every word of HHH to bloat on about how he's buried someone, Daniel Bryan's buried, etc. People hate on the product just to hate on things. Wrestling's a weird world where everyone who cares to this extent (myself included) thinks we can do better than what's presented to us. And a lot of the IWC also believe a lot of the rumblings/reports of stuff that gets out there by a bunch of NEWZ~ sites that are essentially spyware installation centers. So my thinking is this: I think they've put together a really wonderful storyline. I think people who don't like the storyline tend to believe whatever backstage rumors get filtered down that no one really knows are true. I'm just going to agree to disagree with everyone who thinks Bryan's been poorly booked or what have you. We're in a really great time for wrestling. There is seriously a ridiculous amount of talent right now. But people are going to hate because HHH or whatever. I'm going to enjoy the ride.

Or if he won it a few weeks later.

Well, no. He should have won it months ago. When, exactly? And then who chases Bryan after that? And where does that get you in terms of building to WrestleMania?

But you need a way to screw Bryan out of the victory somehow in order to keep the storyline going forward. So how do you do that without something going on with the EC? The gimmick is far from ruined. The HITC is far from ruined, too. The very first HITC had outside interference from Kane. And Orton should keep the title until the big loss. He's been a great cowardly heel and petulant brat who keeps sneaking out victories. I'm not a huge Orton fan by any means but he's done really good stuff since SummerSlam. He hasn't been perfect by any stretch but his stalling heel stuff and crowd taunting have been so great. We all could have lived without Cena and Orton for the umpteenth year in a row. But mind you, no one was complaining when Cena was getting screwed out of the title. What's the difference between Cena and Bryan getting screwed? There weren't these vast complaints when Punk was holding onto the title via Shield run-ins and what have you. I can't even imagine what the IWC would have been like during the Horsemen's run when Tully/Arn/etc. constantly ran in to save Flair (the weakest heel of them all). Heels should win via cheating and by being j-o's. Not all of the time, mind you. But Orton shouldn't (and hasn't) ever win cleanly against Daniel Bryan.

How many fucking more times are you going to post some variation of this in this thread. I think you're on like, four now. Post something interesting instead of something like this. RISE ABOVE HATE

I don't think I'm the only person who sees Bryan getting entered into this and walking out as a possibility. The loss last night was as protected as possible. Bryan went in injured, entered the EC third, kicked out of a finished booked as death for a decade and still needed a screwjob to lose. There's also the old theme of wrestling where the big hero's chase ends at the start of the summer. Old-school booking. Like I've said a bunch of times -- the guy has been the center of the shows since last spring. I doubt anyone has closed out Raw more than him, and it's not even close. They've given entire final hours of Raw to him on a few occasions. I have absolutely no idea how the whole "Bryan Is Buried" thing has happened because it's essentially the exact opposite of what I'm seeing. As far as Batista: The dude blows. He always did, save for his final stretch. But all anyone gets this contract stuff from is via "Rumblings for 411Scoopz.com" that comes from Meltzer, who is the biggest mark out of everyone.

Mind you, no one really has a retort against my optimism and defense of the Elimination Chamber ending.

Oh, I know I am. I love how in the IWC that's a bad thing.

Adding to that is a piece from the NY Times about the religious implications of the movie.

I have no idea what any of this means!