Robert

Never was a huge Ringo Mendoza fan but he was good here and Sangre Chicana was great as usual so they combined for a very good match. A dive in the first 3 minutes! Is this a 2013 CMLL match??? The nearfalls were very believable and I really liked the third fall back-and-forth. I can see some people being let down by the draw but I was fine with it. The 80's were full of title matches that went to draws since back then the folks in charge of CMLL actually cared about protecting guys in big singles matches. Will probably end up putting this higher than most.

+1 Not even sure what I could add that others have said. Brilliant war between two veterans. I could watch this match every day and not get tired of it.

Been catching up on the WON radios and on the show following some UFC last week the first 30 seconds of the show has Dave saying "It was a great fight. Both guys took a ton of punishment and needed to go to the hospital afterwards." Just found that hilarious coming off his rant on Sombra/Volador taking too many risks in their mask match and cutting their careers short.

You can. #boom

I still find it 100% hilarious that this all happened WITHOUT Ott & Kaleta in the lineup. Imagine how worse things would have been with those two involved.

So Clarkson is only suspended 10 regular season games & can still play 3 pre-season games this week including tonight. I wonder what happens if he gets "injured" tonight and the Leafs are "forced" to put him on the IR which in turn would free up much needed cap space...

You could say that.

Announcers were great here giving us the history of Kevin & talking about how Herodes & Colosetti were once again welcoming another foreigner to Mexico... much the same way they did vs Andre The Giant. LOL They might have had a harder time in this match knowing the stories about Kevin in the ring! Very entertaining trios match mainly due to the rudos. Colosetti was fantastic. Gotta love the charge he does every time he is about to feed the tecnicos for a spot. Herodes did what Herodes does which is make everyone look good and take awesome bumps for a guy his size. Pirata was Pirata... which is to say he was incredible. Kevin stayed out of the way pretty much and just did his big moves which kept things on track. Ortiz & MA2K didn't do anything to stand out although I did love the way Ortiz locked on his armbars and just sat there with a 'try and get up' look on his face. I don't think this will be a top 20 or even 30 for most folks but it'll probably wind up in the middle of my ballot.

Was never a big fan of Canek and never believed the hype that he used to actually be good in his younger days. Thus far no match on this set has changed my already formed opinions. A totally average match. Better than the match with Don Corleone but nothing that really got me engaged. Canek didn't wrestle like Canek should with the power moves. He was fine on the mat but didn't do much of anything else. The finishing stuff was atrocious and typical Canek nonsense. The crowd reaction was kind of funny since they were so into it and popped huge for Canek's being hand raised. Fast forward a few years of this finish being done weekly and you can see why El Toreo was down to hundreds of people with nothing else to do on a Sunday... and Canek still kept doing the same finish. Definitely going to finish real low on my ballot.

LOL That reply was awesome!

Loved the matwork early on. Pretty sure both guys were trying to impress Thesz. Problem was after the matwork neither guy had much offense to go to rather than repetitive backdrops. Both tope's in the third fall were great and I was excited the match was heating up but then we had a sudden finish that I wasn't even sure was the finish but Thesz's counts were super quick. Poor crowd not realizing the Mexican had lost until it was too late. It's very likely this wasn't the planned result either since Centurion got the belt back a few months later. Not a match I'll remember by the end of the week and certainly not one I'll be looking to re-watch but it wasn't offensive or anything of the sort.

My reaction after watching this was like Michael reacting to Ann on Arrested Development: "Her? Really?" Can't imagine there weren't hundreds of matches better than this. The crowd seemed utterly bored to the point they were whistling (not good) plenty of times throughout the match. It takes a ton of skill to take a Toreo crowd out of a Canek match but Don Corleone did it! Canek seemed disinterested and they never really kicked it into any gear at all. Very basic stuff with a flat finish. Would have been better if Thesz/Corleone switched roles. This will be bottom five for me. Maybe even dead last after all is said and done.

Damien Cox is pretty much the worst human being on earth who only has a job b/c of the stupid shit he writes for people to laugh at but he basically nails it tonight:

John Scott just attacked Phil Kessel. Way to go, Buffalo! Clarkson will get suspended 10 games for jumping off the bench to defend Kessel. Then Bernier beat the shit out of Ryan Miller. But yeah... 10 games for something John Scott does? Fuck pre-season. EDIT: Kessel did end up fighting someone on Buffalo and beat him up good. Drew blood!

As most have said - a fun spectacle and a gem of a match to make video but would be shocked if anyone had this in the top half of their list. Cien Caras does almost nothing. Herodes was the star of the rudo team in my mind. Watching Andre do his shtick when he could still move was wonderful but as a top match of the 80's I can't see this getting much support.

Great visual with the Toreo jam packed. Always makes me sad to see matches from this time period in El Toreo though because you can't help but think how much WASN'T filmed or was filmed but will never see the light of day for the forseeable future. Crazy to see Sayama/Hamada being cheered more than Perro/Baby. Either shows you how well respected the Japanese duo was or how hated the Mexican team was. Or a mix of both. My first time seeing this match and I was blown away! Japanese guys were sharp with everything. Perro/Hamada interactions were great - especially getting towards the end of the match when they kicked it into brawling mode. Sayama was probably the weakest of the bunch but still did enough to keep up. That senton by Perro to end the second fall was just brutal. Great finishing sequence and post-match beatdown. Might have to re-watch this but on first viewing I'd probably have it higher than most on my list.

Chris Adams too. Also, they weren't the original ones EMLL wanted. It's slipping my mind now as to who the original guys were but the World Class guys were a last second deal. (I think this was when Flair came to Mexico and immediatly went home due to money issues) The "story" is he was a tough dude who was hung with a bad crowd in his younger days and got caught up in drug deals and such. This is why he went to jail for a short time early on and again later in his life. The theory is his fingers being cut off was a message being sent to whatever gang he was in at the time. You can take this as kayfabe or legit. Personally I buy it since the jail sentences were real and cutting off fingers is exactly what you'd do to send a message to a rival gang. This one I don't know but you bringing up State Patrol reminded me of a magazine article I recently saw from November 1989 where it was said The Southern Boys (Smothers/Armstrong) were making their UWA debut the following week. I guess something must have fallen through but I figured people on this board would mark out over that tidbit. I can upload the scan if anyone wants to read it.

Leafs/Sabres just went 30 shooters until someone scored in a shootout. Shooters were 1 for 29 in total. McClement wins it for the Leafs.

After watching this I found it interested how things are so upside down compared to the 80's and present time. These days the first two falls of championship matches are barely given time and the 3rd falls are generally 10-20 minutes of nearfalls. People who aren't fans of current lucha will point out the matches are too short but to use this Rocca/Cota match as comparison - the 1st & 2nd falls got plenty of time but it was the 3rd fall that was rushed and ended in 3 minutes or less. Not to mention the countless Atlantis singles matches throughout the 80's/early 90's where the 2nd or 3rd fall would go seconds before he'd win with the Atlantida. Just an interesting observation. I guess I'm in the minority but I liked this match over the previous match. As someone noted above the Indian Deathlock spot where Rocca kept throwing Cota down was great. Rocca doing that type of roll-up to win the first fall in 1984 would have blown my mind had I not known it was coming. Really enjoyed the pace of the second fall with Cota taking his time and slowly taking Rocca apart. Even though the third fall was short I thought it was great as both guys just went right for the win with their entire arsenal of roll-ups. I'm not a fan of BS finishes in general but this type of controversial finish is the one I like the most where Rocca thought he had it won but Cota grabbed his arms for the draw. Perfect rudo move - especially for a champ. He didn't cheat to win and he didn't beat his rival but he kept his title and has nothing else to prove. Cota played it off perfectly post-match.

Very well done match. Cota has always been an underrated mat worker and sadly didn't stick to that kind of stuff later in his career when more people got to watch him on TV. Rocca was always a guy I wrote off as when I started watching lucha he was way past his prime but the more old stuff that pops up of him the more I'm impressed. Great matwork early on with each guy fighting to get holds and escape holds. No move was taken for granted and it looked like Cota would be pinned many times before Rocca got him with the inverted Gory Special. Second fall was also real good. These guys weren't rushing to get the third fall or anything of the sort. Thought the flying senton would end it but then Cota locked on the Zayclone (as it's known now done by his son) for the win. Lots of great stuff in the third fall including Cota's tope knocking Rocca 8 rows back. Was not a fan at all of the bullshit finish but at least they gave them an automatic rematch. Will likely be in my top half although I liked the rematch better.

It defies logic that ROH can't find a stream that works and CMLL just finished streaming perfectly from Arena Mexico. Wanted to watch Marvin/Strong but feed died just as the match got going.

(Got my DVD's the other day - thanks Will!) Went straight to the match since I hadn't seen in ages and remembered loving it. So weird hearing the announcers call El Hijo Del Santo "Santo Segundo". Sounds like the type of ripoff gimmick AAA would create. It's no wonder Fuerza Guerrera & Lobo Rubio were handpicked to be opponents in his debut. Announcers kept saying it was also Lobo Rubio's Arena Mexico debut but that doesn't sound right. I loved this match because everyone did their job perfectly. The rudos were just there to be bump machines and always be in the right position so the tecncios could shine. Too many rudos these days don't grasp that concept and just want to get their own shit in before worrying about making their opponents look great. Lobo Rubio in particular was the standout for me and it's no wonder so many people in Mexico speak highly of him as one of the forgotten great workers of the 80's. Santo's stuff with him was so ahead of it's time. Also ahead of it's time was the Atlantis/Fuerza upside down slap spot. Most people think Rey/Juventud invented that. I'm not even sure who was the first to use it but I bet it dates back to even before this match. Santo seemed nervous at times but was kept in check by the rudos. I thought Atlantis actually looked better. His stuff was much smoother. Lobo Rubio vaulting Santo over the top rope to the floor was insane! Apache did that spot a month ago and someone called it too excessive and this was 30 years earlier! Finish was great. Both tecnicos save their most spectacular spot for the finish and the crowd is left wanting more. I'd recommend this as a good match to start the set with. Will finish high on my list but not sure how high since there are so many great singles matches on the set.

I don't think Dave has anything against Lucha Libre, he's just slightly out of touch with the current scene. Most of his comments link back to when he was an avid fan from the early to mid-90's. In the Lucha Libre forum on this very site you can see threads titled 'Lucha Tuesday' where folks discuss the good & bad from everything that made TV that week in Mexico.

Loved the match but big time minus points for Rush actually hurting Negro causing him to miss Friday's show. Be stiff but be safe! With that said... I hope Rush kills Negro Casas right before my eyes on Friday.

I've been pushing Cien Caras for a couple of years now but Dave doesn't seem too into the idea. In the past he's cited Cien Caras as being a bad worker when he saw him live in California in the late 70's/early 80's & past his prime when AAA had their boom in 93-95. I can't think of any other major territory/country where the guy involved in 2 of the 3 most famous matches in history & the guy who co-headlined the two largest attended shows in wrestling history would be looked upon so negatively as being a HOF candidate. It's really mind-boggling to me and I am by no means a Cien Caras fanboy just looking for my hero to get some recognition. Facts are facts - the guy is a HOF'er if there ever was one. I wonder if Cien's only chance will end up being if the Hermanos Dinamita get lumped together as a group... although I think that'd actually hurt him since MA2K/U2K are far from HOF'ers. Kinda ties in with Villano III who I think 100% deserves to be in but he gets lumped together with his brothers who were not even in the same league as him but people treat them as an eternal trios team even though the trios team was Villanos I, IV & V for many years. Villano III only became a regular member when his singles career started to wind down.