Go2Sleep

I didn't really mind the women's booking that much, other than Brie pinning Charlotte. Surely there's a better way to establish her as the #1 contender. It looks like they're headed for Charlotte vs. Sasha (and maybe Becky) at Mania, so they just need some filler for Fast Lane. Charlotte/Brie and BAE/BAD are fine in that regard. They could go several different ways with the Sasha/Becky team and have it be good. The main event angle is actually pretty good. Really looking forward to the Dean/Brock interaction. The only thing dragging it down is the "Wyatt interference, Roman wins" finish feeling so inevitable. Roman totally feels like the 3rd wheel right now too. Of all the people that got wins that shouldn't have on this show, the one that bothered me the most was The Usos over the Social Outcasts. The roster is so thin right now, you might as well see what you've got with the Outcasts. If even one of them becomes relevant again, it's a huge win. The Usos are what they are and aren't going to change any time soon.

Also, call-ups aren't about merit anymore. Otherwise 90% of NXT would be on the main roster, and that Florida house show card is what would be on the network every Wednesday.

Apollo's lack of charisma might be preventing him from getting a push, but he is still really damn good in the ring. Corbin will benefit a lot more from working with Crews than Dillinger, Riley, Bull, or whatever other aimless lowcarder you'd throw in there.

If that's the case, I'm doubling down on Christian and Matt Hardy.

That's entirely subjective, no matter what "consensus" there may or may not be.

There's no point in a "past vs. present" debate if both sides of the argument don't acknowledge context. The present is pretty much always going to be undeniably better by present standards.

Do you hold that against Samoa Joe too? And I can't believe people can't understand this general argument as a pure hypothetical. No one is saying Trish's body of work is better than Sasha, Asuka, or Bayley. They're saying that if Trish was born 15 years later and came up in the same system, she'd very likely have a much better body of work based on what she was able to do in the early 2000s. It's totally disingenuous to say she would be worse than everyone today without acknowledging how bad most of the girls today would've tanked in 2000. And to be clear, I'm saying the culture surrounding women's wrestling in WWE in 2000 SUCKED. The fact that Trish overcame that culture to the point where we're having a debate about whether or not she was actually good compared to "real" wrestlers in 2016 is what makes her stand out.

There's a big difference having a good trainer and having an environment where you can routinely have live matches with skilled wrestlers in front of a generally supportive audience. Sasha, Bayley, and Charlotte weren't on anyone's must-see list when they started either, but they got real good real fast in that environment. I'd guess someone who had the aptitude and work ethic to have moderate in-ring success in the mid 2000s women's division would probably come out of that system looking pretty good.

Man, that's more height than I've seen on some cage bumps. Plus the reactions from Debra, Woman, and Mark Curtis... Then Meng's just in the corner like "yep." A+ .gif

Every WCW show from the second half of 96 was good at worst. I think Havoc might have been the least of them, but still good like I said. I remember Luger and Arn having a surprisingly great match, and there's a FoF/Horsemen tag that isn't particularly memorable but there is one spot where Barbarian throws Benoit like 500 feet and it's insane.

Does Arn count as a midcarder? I actually wanna say yes, although his association with Flair did get him near a lot of main event angles, especially during Wargames season.

That list of Trish's contemporaries really highlights how impressive it was for her to succeed as a wrestler. I don't think anyone's saying her in-ring resume GOAT material, you just have to look at it in context. Someone like Paige who is probably the 4th or 5th best woman in WWE today already has a better body of work than Trish, but she isn't held in high regard because it doesn't stand out relative to her peers. If Trish came up through the performance center and NXT, she'd be at the front of the pack right now. Paige in the era of bikini contests and bra and panty matches with minimally-trained models? Unlikely to leave a better legacy than Molly Holly.

They were above Disco on the totem pole, sure, but 4 of those 5 never even sniffed the world title or even a DDP/Savage level feud that could main event a throwaway ppv during their tenure. They were featured as midcarders because they were some of the better performers maybe?

I'd say none of those guys had a shot to get out of their spot in WCW either, unless you wanna count Benoit getting the title after he had committed to WWE. I'll say Disco did the most with what he had, but since what he had wasn't much, there are quite a few people who were better in the role at the time and since. Matt Hardy in WWE is another perfect midcarder, especially from 2005-07.

I think Disco only works for that answer if you put a lot of weight on maintaining a silly gimmick. As far as guys who could go in the ring, make anyone look better, and/or were more over, there's Malenko, Regal, and Christian just off the top of my head. They're so far ahead of Disco in those categories, I don't think Disco's ability to work with bad gimmicks keeps him in the discussion.

1. I'm pretty confident nobody is gonna be the next Trish Stratus in this day and age. PG era pretty severely hinders any woman from getting over just by overt sexualization (this is not a bad thing mind you) and audiences today want some wrestling ability right out of the gate. Eva Marie would've been a star in the early 2000s a la Torrie Wilson and Stacy Kiebler. Likewise, Wilson and Kiebler would be dead in the water today. It took Trish a good 3-4 years to get solid in the ring, but she could rely on T&A matches and angles (and I ain't talking about Andrew Martin and Matt Bloom) to stay over in the mean time, then it looked even better when she became a good wrestler when that was the prevailing style she was brought up in. That just isn't a path that's available to women wrestlers today in WWE. 2. I know we all love NXT, but what is with these crazy reaches for "pro comps" with the current talent? First I see someone say Jason Jordan is the next Rock, and now Alexa is the next Trish? I think Tyler Breeze was 92 Shawn at one point too, and well, I digress... Trish Stratus is perhaps the most inspirational woman in WWE history. Her work ethic in a situation where it wasn't expected and the fact that she ended up having a decent in-ring legacy despite having little if any talent or inspired writing to work with until her last couple of years is no small feat. Alexa may well equal or surpass Trish in terms of ring work when it's all said and done (and honestly given Alexa's environment, it would be damning if she didn't), but I will say with great confidence, she will never be an iconic figure on the level of Trish. There was a lot more to Trish than being short and blonde. As far as "tag team managers that are primarily sex appeal at first but have some discernible athleticism that indicates potential talent despite their current green-ness" go, let's see if she can become the next Melina before we even think about drawing comparisons to Trish.

In fairness, I don't think advertising 1999 Nitros is the best way to drive up network subs.

What could be more hyperbolic than calling somebody the next Rock, probably the most financially successful wrestler ever? Not that Jordan doesn't look like he could be good, but maybe let's compare him to other high-ceiling singles prospects who get their first break in a tag team like Jeff Hardy and Edge first. Or Benjamin and Morrison on the spectrum of guys that didn't pan out.

Sami and Joe complaining to the ref/Regal was fantastic. "It was a horrible sharpshooter!"

I don't know about good, but X-Pac/Albert was at least a sensible pairing as a grocery-store-brand knockoff Shawn/Diesel which automatically gives them more reason to exist than the LON. Justin Credible is eternally terrible, though, and his presence combined with this time period being peak X-Pac hate and having theme music by Uncle Kracker probably explains why they weren't remembered fondly.

While I'm thinking about it, does anyone else agree with me that the LON is one of the worst stables in recent memory, if not ever? The individual pieces are fine, but they've established no reasons for them to band together, they don't complement each other at all, physically and wrestling-wise they're all very redundant, and not a single combination of the four has any chemistry whatsoever. The one guy (Barrett) who actually brings something unique to the table (promo skills) isn't even allowed to do that. It's about as lazy and low-effort a stable you can make. You have 4 midcard foreign heels who no one cares about, how is putting them together going to generate any value? Rusev is the only one who appears to be putting any effort into anything, and he would be better off as his own act (in fact, I think he's dying for a face turn). Del Rio is best as a lone-wolf midcard heel. Sheamus/Barrett would've been a solid tag team combo, but Barrett getting hurt messed that up. Barrett shouldn't be on tv if he can't wrestle or he's not going to transition to announcer. Sheamus could still be the Kane replacement for the Authority I guess. All these guys being together makes each individual look worse instead of better, which is the exact opposite of what a stable is supposed to accomplish.

Kofi should've won MITB last year. Imagine how much better the last couple of months could've been if New Day was in the LON's spot (and the LON never existed).

Turns out the last 6 months where she hadn't made it was just a dream, now there's nothing dragging her down.

Between the Rock and HHH promos, I felt like it was 2003 again. The Rock's promo was pretty good even if it was super long, and the New Day definitely felt like they belonged with him on the mic. I actually didn't mind HHH's promo either. Unlike Vince and Steph, I feel like HHH actually has some self-awareness and knows how to play his character in 2016. I definitely didn't dig the AJ/Jericho match. Reminded me of Cesaro/RVD from a couple years ago where one guy was clearly moving at half speed so the other guy could pretend he could still do a back and forth sprint 10+ years past his prime. I like the way the women's title feud is shaping up. You can hear the reactions getting a little bit better each week and they're all getting more comfortable in their roles. I feel kinda bad for Paige coming in a couple years ago to change the face of women's wrestling, now she's slumming it the non-canon Total Divas tags. The ME choice for Fast Lane is interesting. It sounds decent on paper, even if "Wyatts attack Lesnar, Roman wins" is about as predictable as HHH at #30.