Graham Crackers

This got better and better as it went along. Rayo vs Halcon was a major thread throughout this match as they were building to an apuestas match. Rayo can be such a charismatic and enjoyable performer that the brawling between those two, while not as spectacular as the best brawling on this set, was still really fun. Los Infernales are obviously the most fun guys to watch in this match. They both worked really well with El Texano who looked like a great brawling babyface although most of those moments happened opposite Satanico who I honestly think could make anyone look like a great babyface. Lizmark had some of the most impressive flashes in this match. Every time I see him he has such good timing and is as good throwing hands as he is flying around. He looks like an all time great but I keep feeling like we are only getting brief glimpses of how great he is as he hasn't been the main focus of any of any top tier trios matches and the Satanico vs Lizmark match was a bit of a disappointment to me. He's an incredible supporting actor but I'm still waiting for that great Lizmark starring role and I really want to believe it's out there.

I think a lot of that has to do with the quantity of matches at similar quality levels. For example, when I see tim's rankings I will see matches that he and I have maybe 5 or 6 spaces apart from one another and while I disagree with his placement of said match it rarely seems too crazy to me because I don't think the quality is that far off. As I approach the end of the set I'm starting to realize how hard it will be to rank this as opposed to the AWA set which felt so open and shut to me. I have my overall rankings divided into tiers and at this point the matches in each individual tier could go in any direction. To give you an idea of what I mean, my top tier is made up of the three matches that feel like number 1 contenders, the second tier is made up of 11 matches, the third tier is made up of another 11 matches, the fourth is made up of 10 matches and it continues in similar fashion after that. Of course that's just my personal experience and other viewers may see this very differently. Now with all of that said, not a lot of people have made it past 1984 yet so there are still a lot of matches that have not yet developed a consensus. If you look at the thread for a match like Siglo XX vs Cien Caras you can see tim loved it, Curt hated it, and I felt like I landed right in the middle. There's still a possibility that a consensus may form around a match like that with either tim or Curt turning into an outlier.

1987 1.) El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas (Mask vs. Hair) (7/18/87) 2.) Jerry Estrada, Pirata Morgan y Hombre Bala vs. Atlantis, Alfonso Dantes y Rayo De Jalisco Jr. (Feb 1987) 3.) El Satanico, MS-1 y Masakre vs. Rayo de Jalisco Jr., La Fiera y Tony Salazar (3/20/87) 4.) Blue Panther/Sergio El Hermosa v. Super Astro/Solar (10/17/87) 5.) Atlantis, El Hijo del Santo y Tony Salazar vs. El Satanico, El Dandy y Espectro Jr. (4/3/87) 6.) Mogur vs. As Charro (Mask vs. Mask) (9/18/87) 7.) Cien Caras vs. Siglo XX (4/10/87) 8.) Rayo de Jalisco Jr., Atlantis y Alfonso Dantes vs. MS-1, El Satanico y El Dandy (3/27/87) 9.) Lizmark, La Fiera y Kung Fu vs. Pirata Morgan, Hombre Bala y Jerry Estrada (2/27/87) 10.) Americo Rocca, Javier Cruz y Chamaco Valaguez vs. Talisman, El Dandy y Guerrero Negro (3/13/87) 11.) Tony Salazar, Mogur y Alfonso Dantes vs. Hombre Bala, Talisman y Tony Bennetto vs. Satanico, MS-1 y Masakre (4/10/87) 12.) El Dandy, Magico y Super Astro vs. Gran Cochise, Javier Cruz y Javier Rocca (11/11/87) 1988 1.) Pirata Morgan, Hombre Bala y Verdugo vs. Atlantis, Angel Azteca y Ringo Mendoza (3/88) 2.) Pirata Morgan vs. El Dandy (Hair vs. Hair) (9/23/88) 3.) El Hijo Del Santo vs. Espanto Jr. (4/10/88) 4.) Atlantis vs. Emilio Charles Jr. (8/12/88) 5.) Arandu vs. Guerrero Negro (Hair vs. Hair) (1988) 6.) Kung Fu v. Javier Cruz (3/88) 7.) Mogur vs. Mascara Ano 2000 (Mask vs. Mask) (9/23/88) 8.) Blue Demon, Blue Demon Jr. y Ringo Mendoza vs. Emilio Charles Jr., Pirata Morgan y Satanico (11/25/88) 9.) Kato Kung Lee vs. Kung Fu (Mask vs. Hair) (4/29/88) This is going to be really hard to rank in the end. A lot of these rankings feel like they could change when I go back and organize my ballot.

Are these new shows going to be taped?

I thought this was really enjoyable but I'm a sucker for younger guys working really hard to put over a legend. These guys took such big bumps for every Blue Demon armdrag and headscissors takedown. That is a great rudo trio and with those guys holding down the fort this couldn't be that bad, even with a wrestler as lame as Blue Demon Jr. standing right there. This may be a bottom half match but I don't think it's a bottom 10 match.

This is another fun heavyweight match but probably not at the same level as Rayo vs 2000 or even Cien Caras vs Siglo. Mogur is really good at working the mask ripping. I love how he tears 2000's mask and proceeds to hit him with brutal crossfaces. I thought Dos Mil was the third best member of Los Hermanos Dinamitas but he has impressed me on this set so I may have to reassess that opinion.

Blood. So much blood. Pirata Morgan is the master of pro wrestling as Grand Guignol spectacle. Those terrifying images I associate with Pirata Morgan like spitting out a mist of blood or licking his opponent's blood off his hand are all here. The strikes are brutal too. I never really thought about it before now but Morgan probably works extra stiff to compensate for a lack of depth perception, kind of like Hansen being blind as a bat. Well, there are some really cringe inducing strikes in this one. Then there is El Dandy. He takes a huge beating in the early portions of this match and if Morgan doesn't cut him off the referee does. When he finally makes his comeback he gives Morgan a taste of his own medicine and Morgan becomes a pretty gruesome sight on his own. The finishing stretch is weird. They hit some huge moves and have a ton of nearfalls which is tricky territory for me when I'm watching lucha. This probably would have been just as good without as many nearfalls but they were sold well and they do feel unique in the context of this set so it worked for me.

I really like Emilio Charles Jr. and I'm really excited about all of the Emilio Charles Jr. coming up on this set. It's crazy to see him so young and not nearly as hideous as he would one day become. This isn't the best match he ever had with Atlantis but it is still pretty spectacular. The early matwork is simple but worked really well. I love their standoff after one of the faster early exchanges when Atlantis flips to his feet and Charles quickly stumbles to his own feet. That's a cool visual to demonstrate a rudo being momentarily outclassed by a tecnico. Emphasis on momentarily as Charles is right there with Atlantis for most of this match. We get to see more of the spectacular Atlantis offense that made up his arsenal at that time and not to be outdone Charles has some beautiful looking offense of his own including a great looking tope con giro. This is one of the most satisfying matches on the set and one that I think will do pretty well with a lot of people even if it's not an top tier match.

Yeah, tim hit the nail on the head for me. This had cool moments but didn't add up to a great match. As someone who is a bit of a mark for Los Fantasticos (and martial arts gimmicks in general as they make me think of my love of Steve Blackman when I was younger) I was surprised we didn't see more of them on the set but I'm assuming that had a lot to do with the footage we did have not being full matches. It's a shame because I was curious about seeing these guys team up with Blackman (not Steve this time) who OJ has made sound like a pretty interesting wrestler.

This isn't the spectacular matwork of their 1992 title match but this is still another great match in a great rivalry. We have had better matwork in individual falls of other matches but there haven't been many matches with this much matwork throughout that have been this consistent or had a finish this fantastic. I love watching these guys work together and I still think this is a potential top 20 contender but I'm not married to that ranking yet.

Now this is a fucking great trios match right here. Los Bucaneros strike again with their brutal triple teams and intricate stooging/miscommunication but this time against an even more spectacular tecnico trio. Angel Azteca was a pretty spectacular young high flyer at this point but Atlantis really shines here in what is one of his absolute best matches. That over the top rope tope he hits is superhuman as are those breathtaking midair armdrags where he leaps and spins before coming down and grabbing his opponents in midair. Those are spots that require cooperation from all parties but they are so perfectly executed here with such good timing that it's easy to forget how the magicians really perform their tricks. When I first watched this I missed the low blow and thought we completely missed the finish. Seeing the lowblow doesn't prove to me that we didn't miss anything but it does at least give me a sense of where the match went from there. Still, with a full picture of the finish or a truly decisive finish we could have had the best trios match on the whole set right here. This is still pretty close and is going to be very high on my ballot when all is said and done.

I like rudo Kung Fu. I'd seen a few of his matches without the mask where he uses the nunchucks as weapons (like he does to Cruz at the start) and remember enjoying them even if I don't remember one of them being especially great. Similarly, while this isn't the most amazing brawl on the set it was still pretty entertaining. Cruz is a bit dry and I feel like he could have done more to make this feel like a big fight but mechanically he brought a lot to this match. Probably a bottom half match but really fun and I'm glad it was on this set.

Whoa, get a load of Arandu's Rush-tastic hair. That alone has me excited for this hair vs hair match without knowing who he is. I love his whole look with the leopard print and matching valet. The match itself is a fun brawl around ringside and it's made better by a pretty crazy atmosphere. The best part is the finish with one of the best fouls n the set. Arandu gets away with it too! And somehow he got out of the building without the crowd killing him.

So I guess El Dandy had started watching Japanese wrestling at this point. He had on his best Kazuo Yamazaki tights and was throwing kicks like a UWF guy. It was cool how he and Javier Cruz kept getting really heated when they matched up, especially given their history. Otherwise this is all babyfaces having a good clean wrestling match. Really, almost everyone looks good here. Everyone except Magico (who is wearing Mascara Sagrada gear). Magico's kind of awkward and a few of his really athletic moves don't hit very clean which forces Rocca to overcompensate and it just looks really goofy. It's not a good goofy either. Unfortunately those moments are really distracting, even with so much good stuff happening around them.

The first fall of this match is probably one of my favorite individual falls on the whole set. The Solar vs Blue Panther matwork is every bit as good as it looks on paper. Not only does it feature long sections of uninterrupted chain grappling I also liked the way their matwork works in some aspects of amateur riding and mounts into what is some very distinctly lucha matwork. Super Astro vs Sergio El Hermoso is also what you expect it to be and pretty damn good as well. Honestly, I liked the rudo control stuff too but it's that rudo ref shit that is way too distracting. Sigh...

Oh man, can I please please please see every As Charro match ever. His offense is sooooooo fucking awesome. He's got awesome punches, a bicycle kick, what looks like a rider kick to the floor, and he tops it all off with a Tamon Honda style delayed german suplex!? I wish he was a bit more subtle about getting his blade ready but that's just one misstep and a rather subtle one at that. The match itself was good but not amazing. I feel like some of this may have been clipped but I can't tell.

Tim already touched on the reputation of this match but that's important to think about going in. I will add that I've probably watched this match more times than any match on this set.Now, the last time I watched this match I was a little disappointed. I had already been exposed to the later iterations of the legendary Santo/Casas rivalry which I thought were so much better and on top of that I was watching it soon after Santo/Espanto and I didn't think this held up favorably compared to that one. This doesn't have the hatred of the later matches in this series and it doesn't have the physicality of the Espanto Jr. match and for whatever reason that really bothered me. Those problems seem silly now. I still prefer the Espanto match and the later Casas/Santo matches but this is still a great match on it's own. It makes for an interesting early chapter in both men's careers. This feels more like two men who respect one another trying to one-up each other than it does a match between bitter rivals and that's because that bitterness isn't there. There's no hatred. Casas is a rudo because he's cocky and he's not afraid to get rough but for much of this match he is still focusing on matwork and athleticism, just like Santo. That hubris is important to the match and directly leads to some of the exchanges where Casas finds himself on the losing end like when Casas slips off the ropes Fuerza Guerrera style and gets flattened by the tope de cristo. It's impressive just how good both men are at projecting those aspects of their personality. Even in the cleanest exchanges it's clear who is the rudo even without any context. Outside of the way both men carry themselves and sell both the action and the story this features some incredible execution. I mean, if you know who these guys are you probably know that but it's hard to talk about a match like this without mentioning it. This feels like a top 20 match but with the amount of amazing stuff on this set I can't say where this will end up just yet. That doesn't make this any less of a classic either. This match just represents another aspect of what makes lucha such great wrestling.

I love Siglo XX's mask and I've been wanting to see him in action since I saw him Lourdes Grobet's book. For the most part this was a solid heavyweight lucha spectacle but MAN did they kick it into gear for that last fall and especially the last few minutes which were pretty awesome with all of the blood and dives.

Tournament lucha often makes me feel really sad as cool looking matches just end up being tasty snacks as opposed to satisfying meals. Lumping those matches together here makes it at least a little more tolerable. The result is way less satisfying than the singles elimination match earlier in the set as with so many people involved this just feels like a collection of spots and highlights. The final trios match is pretty good and that triple team sub Los Infernales uses in the second fall is the best multiman sub I've ever seen. The other notable spot is Los Infernales countering La Estrella which was really cool and unexpected. This is fun but is still a bottom half match because of how disjointed it felt.

This was so fun! I liked the way they started with competitive matwork and let the heat slowly escalate. The Satanico vs Tony Salazar exchanges really stood out to me. It's the best Salazar has looked on this set though Satanico is a GOAT candidate so that isn't a huge surprise. I love how they teased their tempers flaring during the early matwork by having both men feint kicks and punches after their initial lockup gets broken up. Atlantis vs El Dandy is probably my favorite matchup here and Santito is just so incredible that even after watching a bunch of great matches featuring him in the last month I still find myself impressed with him like it's the first time I've seen him.

Really good trios match though probably only midrange in the grand scheme of things. I liked Atlantis and Dandy's exchanges which get even better in the next match. I can't remember if they ever had a singles match against each other but that's something I'd like to see.

Watching this set has given me a better appreciation for some guys I always knew were great (Satanico, La Fiera, Sangre Chicana), introduced me to guys I've never heard of (As Charro), and turned some vaguely familiar names into names I want to seek out (Mocho Cota) but through all of this Rayo De Jalisco Jr. is someone whose stock has risen albeit in very quiet fashion. Sure, I already had a soft spot for him because he has a cool mask, fun dance moves, and Cien Caras vs Rayo De Jalisco Jr. is just as fun as wrestling gets but I still never thought of him as being this great. He's not the most amazing wrestler on the set but he really brings it in these trios matches. He has great timing when rudos stooge for his schtick, great selling when taking a beating, and produces some really hot comebacks like the one in this match. The rest of the tecnico team features La Fiera is great working the same leg injury as the 2/27 trios match and Tony Salazar who I was initially high on but has become really hit and miss in his last few appearances on this set. Which of course brings us to Los Infernales. They are easily one of the best, if not the best heel team in wrestling history. When they are mauling an opponent it is so brutal and so consistent that you can't help but wonder if it will ever let up. This is a tremendous showcase for them. That said, I'm still not sure how I feel about Masakre yet. I thought I remember somebody (Kris?) saying that the Masakre iteration of the team is their best version and Masakre has yet to really impress me. He's good and regardless of what he does he has two all time great rudos working with him so he could really fucking coast and this'd still be great. As great as it is this doesn't feel like quite the classic that some other Infernales matches have been and I don't think it's any better than the first Bucaneros trios match.

So, I watched the rest of disc 6 as well as 7 and the beginning of disc 8 on a long bus ride so some of my thoughts on those matches may be a bit more brief. My notes on this one are pretty sparse and honestly I don't remember all that much about this one. I recall this being solid but unspectacular. I've grown to like this rudo trio and the tecnicos are good even if in some ways they feel like generic 80s tecnicos.

This is a bit of a disappointment compared to the last match which is mostly because there were a few passages that felt pretty flat. The most memorable moments were still pretty spectacular though and that keeps it closer to midrange than the bottom. I loved all of the Kung Fu exchanges, especially Kung Fu going solo against Morgan and Hombre Bala. I really liked all of the legwork and La Fiera's selling of said legwork during the final fall. That moment where he and Estrada are circling each other, Fiera's leg buckles, and Estrada pounces only for La Fiera to hit some great hope spots on all three Bucaneros before going back to selling the leg was really well done. I could have seen that being a highlight in an even better match.

My dad claims that he and Bill Apter took photography courses together and my dad is 67 so I don't think the difference in age could be too big.