Big Z
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Posts posted by Big Z
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21 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:
The buzzy term ‘generational talent’ applies to ppl like Danielson who could get over and succeed no matter what horseshit he was fed. Max Friedman has hardly had to overcome the odds in his overly protected push. Far too early to say what his legacy will look like. Shane Douglas is an apt comparison, but no way does his promo output meet that of Franchise 95-96.
If people want to mention a Nature Boy to compare MJF with, how about Buddy Landell. Buddy was damn good in the ring when he wanted to be and could talk, but also derailed his career on multiple occasions due to idiotic decision making. While I do not believe that MJF has the same out of the ring demons, this current behavior feels like Landell's move of sabotaging his JCP run in late '85/early '86.
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5 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:
Bucks and Hardys I'll grant you has history to rely on. The TBS Title match has zero story. JAS vs Eddie and Santant & Ortiz has a strong build. But BCC being involved has all of what 2 TV segments? HOB v Death Triangle have had what 1 interaction on TV since the last PPV? (Fenix's return). Well I guess they ran off HOB in that Julia Hart segment too. So 2 TV segments. But that's not much story that's been developed. The Owens are tournaments and don't need much story. But sooooo much of the TV has been built around getting to those two matches. Like 3-4 matches a show for the last month.
Guess it's just me being too literal in wanting things officially announced and a refined & deliberate push to advertise everything to make everything feel special. What actually feels special for this show to you? In my opinion the only things with a special feel are Wardlow vs MJF and the two Owen matches. But again that's just an opinion.While Punk-Hangman has only been official for a few weeks, I figured that match was on the minute that Punk signalled for title right after Revolution. Now, it's been a fairly unique build in that two face wrestlers have kind of been acting like assholes during the build, but a positive spin on that is that both guys are all business and desperately want to win.
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14 minutes ago, The Natural said:
I actually like Gargano a fair amount, though his best stuff in NXT was as a team with Ciampa in DIY. That best said, he does not bring anything to AEW that the roster does not have bunches of already (and some of his luster jumping over has been lost over the last few months).
Dang good show as usual, with all of the Owen matches delivering nicely and Hangman-Takeshita was a total banger that felt like a title level match. Also, while I get the arguments about Deeb not being earth's best promo, I like the idea of AEW throwing people out there to sink and swim and not being overly produced. Even if leads to mix of both good and bad, the quality of the good from the creative freedom will be worth the trade-off for things that do not totally hit. I'm not tuning into AEW for homogenized production that has no character.
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Solid hour of wrestling per usual, but not feeling that last angle at all. If Guevara is still to be involved in the TNT title scene, he should have retained a few weeks ago and fully gone heel (at least for the storyline, audience long ago decided that direction for his character). Meanwhile, Scorpio Sky ultimately remained on the dark side even though he seemed to be much more effective and over during this recent face tease (and a face run with TNT title could have helped get things back on track with that belt). While they likely had no choice but to take the title off Miro when they did given his injury situation at the time, it's definitely fallen in prestige since then and no longer feels special after a good 18 month or so initial run after its introduction. I strongly push back on the argument with the tag titles losing prestige (though FTR needs them ASAP), but the TNT title unfortunately feels very WWE'ized the last six months.
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1 hour ago, Gordlow said:
I am wondering, right now, if there is a pro wrestling company in America where Kota Ibushi has friends, where the owner has shown that he has no problem letting the wrestlers take time off to heal up from injuries.
Just wondering.
I'd love Ibushi in AEW, and at this point New Japan needs AEW a lot more than AEW needs New Japan, but think this one may not be happening before Forbidden Door at a minimum if things are that toxic between Ibushi and New Japan.
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1 minute ago, HarryArchieGus said:
Yeah, sure bad (but kinda hilarious) promo aside, writing off Pillman Jr. is the 2022 equivalent to the 2020-21 writing off of Austin Gunn. It's foolish, Don't do it!
Man I really want to like Pillman Jr. cause his father is one of my all time favorites, but agree with those that do not see a ton in him. He's okay in the ring, but not great, and definitely did not inherit his dad's athleticism and natural flying ability. He's awful on the mic though, and while his online personality shows some heel potential, he is still way too green for a prominent role on a big stage (and unlike say a young Lex Luger, does not have a million dollar body/physique to compensate).
Definitely some hit or miss with the show, and interested that they went with Hangman heeling it up tonight. It's probably the smart short-term move, but still think that Punk turning down the road is the long-term play.
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2 hours ago, elizium said:
That's a good plan, but I wouldn't do it at All Out because the moment might be undercut by the fact that the entire crowd would be on his side
I actually like how that would play into things, as Punk could say that nothing has changed, but it would be slow burn to a full heel turn before Full Gear.
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Diving into the dangerous realm of fantasy booking, I'd have Hangman win this match at Double or Nothing and Punk turns down an opportunity to cheat to win. During the summer, Punk regrets thats and gradually starts cheating a bit more in his matches before winning the title via chicanery at All Out.
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3 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:
I don't disagree with this thought. But I think, and this is just me talking out loud, that this point of view is not as common with more casual viewers. The companies that do have that high turnover rate have trouble growing. You need a certain level of constancy in your brand awareness to break through. ECW is a good example for this. The shows were consistently fun, even with constantly losing their stars to the bigger guys. Like Tajiri & Super Crazy & Jerry Lynn were all awesome. But if you could get new viewers interested by showing them the height of the storytelling (Raven / Deamer, Taz / Sabu, etc.) they would turn the show on and not see any of these stars or stories anymore. Turning on 2000 ECW and hoping to see some of the guys you've heard of but getting Justin Credible instead was a turnoff to people who wanted to watch a show with a familiar face.
For ROH to have been successful they would have needed to keep more than just The Briscoes for the long haul. Like WCW had a lot of turnover between 1989 and 2001. But For the most part you were always going to have the backbone present. Some combination of Sting, Flair, Luger, & The Stieners at anytime. ROH would have needed a backbone of The Briscoes, and a Punk / Danielson, Joe, Claudio, Steen. But there in lies the rub, if you're a star you grow. If the company isn't willing or isn't able to grow with you they are going to get left in the dust. The ROH / ECW problem. Too big to be small but too small to be big.
The future ROH can't try and be an equal to AEW on star power. It would just muddy the waters. It needs to be less than, for the health of both places. But to your point, turnover is fun. But it needs a distinct core that holds the place together and gives the brand some familiarity. NXT ran into this problem too. Too much turnover is just tough to replicate success with. Once Sami, & Pac, & The Horsewomen, & FTR, & Alpha Academy & Finn were gone they just didn't have that brand identity anymore. It needs to be a balance of turnover and an established backbone to truly be healthy.I'd argue that the generation of NXT guys post Finn/American Alpha/Horsewomen actually took a NXT up another level until Vince sent them on a suicide mission competing against AEW. Ciampa as heel champion was incredible, you had amazing debuts from Nakamura, Bobby Roode, a returning Drew McIntyre, Adam Cole (and the formation of the Undisputed Era in Brooklyn), and Ricochet to name a few, and a bunch of great stories (the Ciampa/Gargano break-up and feud, the Undisputed Era as a new generation type of Horsemen, Aleister Black developing into a superstar, and the Velveteen Dream becoming a high-level homegrown star before his awful behavior and indiscretions torpedoed his career). While Vince being hands off allowed for NXT to flourish as a popular brand until the formation of AEW, he royally fucked up not making a bunch of people major stars that were handed to him to a silver platter.
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I'd actually rate Page-Cole from this week's Rampage higher of the two really good Texas Death Matches, and include that match in the next tier of awesome AEW matches this year right below Page-Danielson and Bucks-FTR.
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6 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:
'Mean by Gawd @DEAN better expresses my feelings on Dalton Castle's AEW debut than I can. Tho, I can't help but agree with this assessment...
AEW has a lot of terrific producers in place to help work around weaknesses. Could he be doing some things less to avoid that visual? I hope so. Would a tag team partner help matters? Or would a partner mess with the presentation? Anyway...
It's most glaring any time he tried a move to the corner turnbuckle, so I would cut those out immediately. Also, do not try any leapfrog spots, as he could not exceute that with basically the shortest guy on the roster. I know that his back issues have been affecting him for awhile, but I didn't remember them to be near as dramatic during the match with Rush at the AEW/NJPW supershow in 2019. Also, it did not help me that I could visibly see the back brace under the trunks/singlet hybrid he was wearing to try to mask that. Really wish that a healthy Dalton Castle could have gone to an AEW (and he could have also had a fun NXT run under Hunter before Vince saw him).
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I will be contrarian on two-plus themes of this thread. First, the TNT title going back on Sammy is the more interesting move, and glad that they are leaning into the heel heat. I think he can have a fun, decent length title run before losing convincingly sometime around All Out. Second, love the Dalton Castle presentation and have been a fan of his in my previous experiences with him. That said, he's moving like a sixty year old when he was to go any length of the ring. While he's still fairly explosive in short areas and executed some crisp moves, he looks especially slow compared to the rest of the roster and that is not intentionally his style. It would probably benefit him greatly to take a few years off to heal, but that's not realistic at 36 years old and having to make a living and all.
Also, I actually very much like this group of champions and think that both Jurassic Express and especially Hangman are having very good title runs. Even with Jurassic Express as semi-transitonal champs, they have had a bunch of excellent title matches and their eeign has kept elevating Jungle Boy as an upper card star (and they are still super over as a team). While Hangman's two bangers with Danielson brought the most attention to his reign, his other title matches have all been very good (even with odd reactions from Revolution crowd), and the Rampage match this past Friday should be somewhere in the 5-10 range of top AEW matches this year (of which there have been loads of awesome matches already this year). He's doing plenty good heading into the likely Punk program for Double or Nothing.
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On 4/14/2022 at 7:09 PM, Matt D said:
Pick me a random 2020 or 2021 (before Punk shows up) singles Page match vs someone that's not part of the Elite to watch and I'll see what I can do.
Really liked the match against Brian Cage at Double or Nothing last year. Also enjoyed the Ricky Starks matched on Dynamite where unfortunately Starks took a bad bump off a suplex that jacked his neck. Both matches in 2020 Eliminator tournament prior to the Omega match were also good, especially the one against Wardlow. Going back to the very early days of AEW, his series of matches against Pac were a lot of fun as well.
For some non-AEW matches, really liked the IWGP U.S. title match against Jay White as his breakout performance and also Hangman was one of the better things about a very mixed 2018 G1.
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I absolutely loved the Clash of the Champions concept, and have seen most all of them multiple times at this point. However, the difference is that for all the Clashes that pre-date Nitro, they featured high-level matches that were previously only seen on PPV and very ocassionally on Saturday Night or one of the syndicated programs. And unfortunately, the Clashes were much less important after the introduction of Nitro. With the nature of wrestling TV in 2022, you have to have high-level matches on the weekly TV shows to keep eyeballs on them. It's pretty amazing that AEW has kept most of their PPV matches fresh and must-watch with three hours of weekly programming, but unfortunately it's a giant ask to also do that for another four quarterly specials. Instead of keeping those specials for TV matches, I think that would be better served for a more unique concept. Also, they need 2 or 2 1/2 hours if you want fully replicate the importance of the Clashes.
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3 hours ago, Marcel said:
I'm pretty sure - it's been a long time - that Steve Austin/Dustin Rhodes and Brian Pillman/Ricky Morton were the only things on the show worth watching.
Terry Taylor-Bobby Eaton and the title match between Luger and Ron Simmons were also pretty good, with Eaton-Taylor probably the best match on the card (and of course, edited off of the VHs version of the show). That was actually a decent recovery show on the back of the Great American Bash '91 disaster.
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Crazy thinking where this list is now compared to the same point last year, as I'd rate Hangman-Danielson from 1/6 and Bucks/FTR last week as five-star matches, and then a ton of other matches right on that 4 and 3/4th stars and five-star border: Both Punk-MJF matches, Mox-Yuta from the last Rampage and Danielson-Yuta, Kingston-Jericho and the triple threat tag match also from Revolution, Punk/Mox against FTR, and the triple threat TNT title match from Rampage before Revolution. I'd argue that last year's first five-star match for AEW was Bucks vs. Lucha Brothers at All Out (and there was a cascade of them after that thanks to the combination of regular size, hot crowds and Mr. Danielson joining the fray). And I've tried to sort of keep a running list of all-time great AEW matches in my head, but that's a daunting task given the sheer quality of awesome matches (and great crowds that add just that much more to the matches).
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4 hours ago, DangerMark said:
I actually really dug this aspect of the match, he was so convinced of his superiority that he went for about the stupidest thing he could have done to show off and it cost him in the worst possible way.
From when I first saw the match, my thought was that they resorted to trying flippy moves out of desperation, but the idea still very much works. I'd rate the rematch a touch better also, but in any comparison that is remotely close, I will side with the match that had a full crowd over the one with limited fans in attendance.
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14 hours ago, TheVileOne said:
Well, I was right about Tony and Cody Rhodes. Cody returning to WWE at WrestleMania broke Tony, and he already can't handle it. He's lost his shit on social media again.
I have a feeling if Twitter was around during the Monday Night Wars, this is much like what Eric Bischoff would be doing because this feels like a dopey Eric Bischoff reactionary move move.
Tony Khan's fragile ego has been shattered by Cody leaving.
In a week that saw two of AEW's best TV matches in company history. You can choose violence over your inane posts and theories, I'll choose TK's violence of putting out the best pro wrestling in North American history and calling out bullshit and trolls on social media.
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26 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:
Perhaps I'm wrong. Can somebody pull up the year to year numbers on AEW's ratings? I'd heard a pretty substantial percentage increase from the shows happening in March of last year in comparison to 2022.
Obviously growth is important, but growth seems steady enough for Warner Media to be happy. A happiness that will no doubt result in a substantial rights pay increase. I don't see the issue.I actually think that is the route for continued growth and potential explosive growth as well. In 2022, people will mostly shun overly promoted products for quality products that grow audiences almost by word of mouth. Programs like Schitt's Creek and Breaking Bad put out quality entertainment for years before they totally exploded in popularity, and they exploded in popularity because they had created such a good product. As long as AEW continues to cook and put out high-level programming, the audiences will eventually follow (not that they are anything to sneeze at currently, especially with live crowds and PPV buys).
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1 hour ago, sabremike said:
Yes. Honestly think that it was the best thing for everyone involved.
Absolutely, Cody badly needed a refresh elsewhere and I think that AEW shows have flowed better without him the last two months. Also, I would be surprised if the son of Dusty is not eventually back in AEW in a few years.
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My guys: Like 99% of the current roster, but top guys are Hangman, Bucks, Kenny Omega, C.M. Punk, and Keith Lee, and no one that I actively dislike currently (though Jericho is better as a hell). And while I quite enjoy Cody Rhodes when harnassed correctly and think he has a star quality to him, also do not miss the Codyverse from 2021 (and had no interest in a long feud with Lambert's group).
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To tie together Shartnado's post and the recent ones about Cody, my closest wrestling friend has been fully on board with AEW since last summer after Punk's return, and last bridge for him will be to shell out for the pay per views. He also watched the first Dynamite and periodically saw some episodes between then and Punk's debut, but now likes AEW as much as I do. Anyway, when we were texting about Cody leaving, he was basically non-plussed about it since he only saw the worst of the Codyverse in action and thought that was the one kind of messed up thing in AEW. He could not believe my argument/belief that Cody was one of the MVP's of AEW during the first year or so of the company (he also followed most of his WWE run, so he would have some of the Stardust stink on his mind also). This is one of those cases where a fresh start elsewhere may be healthy for all parties (though Cody will likely be miserable again there in due time and I do not expect him to be a WWE lifer this time around either).
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I'd definitely have the triple threat tag title match from Revolution on there, probably in the 3-4 spot. Honorable mention also for Punk/Moxley against FTR from the 2/9 Dynamite and the triple threat TNT title match from the 3-4 Rampage.
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Would have loved to been in Orlando for this, but damn this was an amazing show. I could just about give AEW a blank check for PPV's at this point and let them fill out wahetver amount they want. As usual, you have a little bit of something for everyone, and all of the key matches (save maybe Britt-Rosa) hit spectacularly. The opening two matches and Punk-MJF were my absolute favorites and easy match of the year candidates, but the 6 man, Moxley-Danielson, and the main event were all still damn good in their own right. Every AEW PPV truly feels like an all-star extraganza of top wrestlers. Their last five PPV's with full crowds (Revolution 2020, Double of Nothing, All Out, and Full Gear last year, and Revolution 2022) have all been great and the best streak of big shows that I can remember on American soil. Even though it's plenty popular and sustainable as is, I still think AEW's popularity could totally explode at some point as many other cultish favorites these days
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Double or Nothing IV - 5/29/2022
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
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Face Brandon Cutler would have qualified. Very early Jungle Boy, but he's progressed well beyond that.