soup23

I am a little confused by the term clipping being used here. Was part of the third fall clipped or is this all we have? As a match used to built up a bigger one, I had no issues with this finish whatsoever as a match that has gotten out of hand is pretty clearly indicated by both guys being drenched in blood, Villano having his mask ripped off, and him delivering a great nut shot to Chicana. The first two falls were all about building up to the Chicana comeback and he didn't disappoint as the tope was sick. Villano is starting to become my unheralded worker of the set as I think he is getting short changed a bit based on some of the comments. I have enjoyed his singles matches with Perro and now Chicana immensely. This feels like a sneaky top 25 match to me and the length didn't bother me in the slightest as it was 13 minutes of a straight fight. (****1/4)

Thankfully I watched this twice because the first time was late at night and my attention was waning. The second watch really brought Rayo, Villano III, and Fishman up to the forefront and what they added to the match. The Cota/Cochise segments still felt really heated and the match all together was more cohesive with paying attention to whom was getting cut off and worked on. Seemed to set up a good wager match between Cochise and Cota that I am sad we dont have. My #3 trios of the set behind the UWA Space Cadets and the MSI/Chicana week after their classic one. (****)

Satanico vs. Super Astro being chased by the Elimination Match is a hell of a night in Arena Mexico.

This may not have been a crazy bloodwar but it was plenty violent to me. The first fall featured Dandy getting beat up at the onset and some nasty posting and pancaking of Cruz. Cruz responds a little too easy for my liking but he takes the first fall with a sick hangman submission. Second fall was all Dandy working the neck. He gives a vicious clothesline, three DDT's and even pulls up on the pin attempt, two neckbreakers and an equally nasty finish submission where Dandy pulls the hair. Third fall may have actually lost a little bit for me as they meandered a bit after the initial shock of Dandy getting the electric chair. They tease the end with a double pin and then end up both getting shaved with the double countout after the dive. Another very good match that will probably land as #60 and I will be shocked at the quality. (***3/4)

Took a while to understand what was going on but I agree with PHil that from the senton of Chicana on, this was an epic war up there with the best stuff on the set so far. If Perro vs. Sangre singles match later on is like their final segement here, they seriously may be contending for my #2 spot and even knocking at the door of the first MS1 vs. Chicana match if I'm feeling contrarion. The punches in this were some of the best haymaker, all I got left punches in wrestling history. (****1/2)

Those sentons were insane. This was the Dandy vs. Cruz show but got me eagerly anticipating their hair vs. hair match later. The other four were guys I am unfamilar with and while fine, they didn't do a lot for me either. This also seeemed odd as I still am unsure whether we got two falls only for the match (ref called off the whole thing due to damage) or there was clipping. Either way, probably a mid-range ballot pick. (***1/2)

Yeah, I loved this. I wish Satanico was my uncle. Preach on Matt. I am shocked with some of the lukewarm reviews for this even more so than Ultraman vs. Estrada. This had a serious hate to it and featured a lot of heel on top controlling but allowed Astro a ton of moments to shine like his first fall comeback. Satanico took over and was smart when he had to be throughout this match. He wasn't going to allow the second fall to slip away from him like the first so he stays on the offensive and doesn't let up. Third fall gives Astro and opening when the hatred gets Satanico away from his game plan a bit. Astro takes full advantage and you have an epic finish. THis was a spectacular Satanico performance and may only be at best his third best of 1984. The dude is incredible. Sneaky top 25 candidate. (****1/4)

Bad things out of the way first, the finish was pretty shitty. That hasn't been the case much on this set even with countouts, nutshots and the ilk because of the nature here. The narrative of this match that they had thrown everything at each other and were at a stalemate is fine on the surface but felt cheap when watching the escalation of this match. That all being said, I enjoyed this a lot and thought the clunkiness at times helped. The opening fall was good stuff especially the little touches like headbutts to the abdomen to escape and reverse. Perro of course was going to dive in the third caida and that didn't disappoint. Villano III looked a little rough here but mostly held it together. THis match had a lot of charm with me that allows me to look past most of its flaws. (****)

This was good to see the Infernales and Satanico vs. Atlantis is again a pairing that I probably dig more than any other commenters. Perferctly good trios match but in a set filled with this much depth. I have it sitting in my bottom five and fully expect it to be in my bottom 15 overall. Ringo continues to be a guy I am fairly tepid on and he hasnt been able to find the extra gear that others like even Salazar have found. (***1/4)

I generally try to not judge matches by expectations of their previous encounters but this just didn't have the length of time either watching the set chronologically or in the calendar year to prevent one from making comparisons to the epic the year before. That is not say this isn't very good, it is and has a neat narrative others have touched on that is unique for the set as the dives really are built up and carry this. I just wanted I guess more violence. This is pleasing and would be a career highlight for many workers, but in the wake of the 1983 apuestas, it feels somewhat hollow. (***3/4)

I often have described Angel Azteca vs. El Dandy as a match that should be running in a loop at a museum somewhere to display wrestling as an art form. This match is worthy of having a video screen running in unison right next to that one. The first lockup to the final exchange was all about fluid uncooperativeness and leverage/jockeying for position. It was a beautiful display and in a year where Satanico already has one of my favorite performances in a match ever (vs. Atlantis) he gives another awe-inspiring transition here. For the first time on the set, you feel like cheering the devil on and relish in his victory. Top 10 lock. (****3/4)

Sick is a good word for this match as it was full blown chaos and siffling through the VQ only amplified that feel. I was listening along with the lucha parties podcast while watching this and I do think the lack of structure in this match does hold some weight at times for it to be in the absolute upper tier. I love a hate-filled brawl as much as anyone, but I need to feel some sort of stakes. At times, this match felt simply who can be the biggest dick tag team. That can advance a match into the great catagory as this one did based on the amazing strikes and intensity but it disallows it from reaching likely my top 25 on a set this loaded. (****)

This match really confirms how great this set is overall. It was really good right on the cusp of great but still may not even be top half when all is said and done. I find Koshinaka to be ok generally but he is one of the more nuetral workers I know where I'm usally not overly bothered nor excited when he pops up on stuff I am watching. Satanico gave an inspired performance of course and stakes his claim as the best worker of 1984. The blood started flowing and really amped up to a fever pitch in the third fall. I guess I will claim that I think Satanico took advantage of the placement of Koshinakas hands and decided to goad the ref into calling a foul. Clever fihish and a shameful way to lose your hair. (***3/4)

I have rewatched all of the first two discs again after a 9 month break. Most stuff remained the same with minor variances (Atlantis vs. Statanico no longer gets *****) but this was the match with the biggest jump as I think it is legitimately great now. I still think Santo’s partners are basically two live bodies but his revenge on Fuerza and going ape with his mask dangling was spectacular. Really showed a passion that is rare to find.

Fun series of posts from Goodyear and MattD. I generally agree with TIm Livingston's post on 6/3/94 and still thought it was at least a top 5 match of the 1990's for all promotions when i watched it going through my 1994 footage. Interested to hear Matt's thoughts on 6/9/95. I will say this as nice as possible, but it seems like these threads get derailed way too easily. I was eagerly anticipating this one looking it up and seeing 8 pages and was immediately disappointed that only goodyear and MattD seem to have taken the task of watching the stuff fresh so far. Instead like usual, we get other recommendations for this project that become convoluted, discussion of other projects when this one was days old, and random tangents on individuals like Fuchi. Fuchi is great and I think Akiyama/Ogawa from 98 would be something Matt would enjoy on some level, but this project is better served for the reader and participates to remain focused and streamlined on the task at hand. EDIT: I will give a shout out to Curt too for soldiering on with this and the lucha footage.

But what is considered a nomination? I can name probably 100 IWA-MS matches I would classify as good but with no rhyme or reasons seems kind of pointless, no?

This sounds like a fun topic but the process so far has been way too helter skelter. Having people randomnly list aimless matches probably won't result in a lot of interesting discussing/rewatching. I would recommend either seperatiing it by company and focus on one of those at the time or to do it by year.

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Same with the error

Goc's first ballot was amazing.

well you've left me in the dust Tim. Actually rewatching stuff along with the lucha parties now. Some stuff holds up better (opening tag match), soma little less (hamada vs. Centurian), and some is still either super great (MS-1 vs. Chicana) or still bad (Andre tag).

Interested where you had the one hour draw Clayton?

This is a beautiful match overall. Satanico I think was slightly less here than in the Atlantis match but that is no knock as his Atlantis match performance is probably one of my favorite rudo displays all time. Lizmark was right there with him most of the way in this match and this had a good amount of hatred but also grace. Finish is another one that wasn't very satisfactory and again detracts a little where this match with a tighter finish could have been a top 10 candidate for the entire set. ****1/4

Hmm, must have got you confused with someone else on Algerian Death Match Parv, thought you were low on that.

hirteen matches have made the coveted "top 10 & bottom 10" list thus far: Adrian Adonis vs. Hulk Hogan (10/17/82) - Who wants to raise their hand that this is in their top ten? Buddy Rose & Doug Somers vs. Midnight Rockers (Cage Match) (12/25/86) - I think we all knew this was coming Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey vs. Baron Von Raschke & Mad Dog Vachon (Taped Fist Match) (3/13/83) - Surprised this made either list honestly Crusher Blackwell vs. Mad Dog Vachon (Algerian Death Match) (5/22/83) - Loved this match a ton but know others (Parv) didn't at all Da Crusher & Greg Gagne vs. Crusher Blackwell & Sheik Adnan Kaissey (Cage Match) (3/25/84) - Really surprised this made a bottom ten Jerry Blackwell vs. Billy Robinson (12/3/81) - Surprised this made either distinction Jumbo Tsuruta vs. Billy Robinson (3/11/84) - Surprised this made either distinction Nick Bockwinkel vs. Billy Robinson (12/25/81) - Top 10? Nick Bockwinkel vs. Hulk Hogan (4/24/83) - Top 10? Nick Bockwinkel vs. Jim Brunzell (6/11/81) - very fun match, nowhere near my top 10 Stan Hansen vs. Curt Hennig (5/31/86) - Bottom 10? Stan Hansen vs. Leon White (3/13/86) - Bottom 10? Wahoo McDaniel vs. Manny Fernandez (Strap Match) (12/13/88) - I guess I can see this one This whole list is baffling to me.