Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Bryan

Members
  • Posts

    309
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by Bryan

  1. 15 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

    Trying a do over would make things ten times worse. No way should that be an option. Besides, isn't tomorrow pretaped anyway? 

    Considering Christian is being advertised to make his Dynamite debut, I don’t think so.

    I also don’t think they should redo the explosion idea but they could do something different, to get the Eddie Kingston storyline over if they had major plans for it.

    Otherwise, hopefully they just do something crazy in a good way that will gets fans talking about something else in a positive way.

     

    • Like 2
  2. 17 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

    It's definitely fine if you don't like the booking, cause that's a totally subjective matter of taste and I would never begrudge you that, but I'm talking about the technical snafu with the explosives. No amount of kick ass ring work can overcome something like that, it just needs to be learned from. 

    AEW has had numerous production issues though. They constantly had audio issues, I’ve lost count of the amount of times the camera has cut away from the in ring action when something big was clearly about to happen for a crowd shot or close up of a manager.

    Instead of hiring former WWE wrestlers, I think Tony Khan should hire some of the WWE production people (anyone except Kevin Dunn). There product is obviously garbage but their presentations have always been good.

    • Like 2
  3. 10 minutes ago, Goodear said:

    I watched most of the show yesterday. I have THOUGHTS.

    The issue with the run in on the main event is that it makes Moxley look crazy in that he's trying to do the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result. Honestly if he didn't come up with a plan to combat The Good Brothers in a no DQ match when they just did that in the last no DQ match, he deserves his fate. I'm at a point with several angles where they need to end and this one needs to move away to something else. Not to fantasy book (but I'm totally doing it), but imagine if you will Archer and The Death Triangle run off the Good Brothers and they have Wight and Christian do the unannounced run in instead on the behalf of Callis. You move forward the Invisible Hand reaching into other promotions angle "opening another forbidden door", you unleash two big surprises when they aren't really expected, and you move Moxley out to a feud with Christian. You also keep Moxley from looking like a dope. None of the wrestlers can do anything about the pyro but they obviously got put in a really poor spot. 

    The Street Fight and particularly Sting and Brian Cage (boy is going to be fun typing out first and last names all the time) exceeded my expectations. Cage came off like a BEAST in this production, projecting Big Physical Threat in a way he has problems doing in regular matches. He loomed. There's been lots of talk about the stair walk suplex, but throwing a tire at an extra and carrying Darby around like groceries was also pretty great. Hobbs and Hook's cameo was pretty great if you think of the ski mask as an affectation rather than a disguise. The bat flying around the building worked too. Well done!

    Ladder match and tag team battle royal both suffered from too many people in there that people don't care about or wouldn't know. It's no way to debut someone to put them in a multiman, it almost always fails. They could have cut people out of both matches and it would have helped. The tag royal was probably 5 teams too deep with people with no shot of winning and it caused it to wear out its welcome. I feel like a broken record, but Marko Stunt is the worst babyface. For having such a deep tag team roster, they sure love putting over teams that aren't true units going all the way back to Page and Omega. I can't imagine anyone being invested Scorpio at this point, he's been MIA for months. 

    Women's title match suffered from tonal shifts from doing headdrops on the ramp, to doing rope pull dances, to cocky heel kicks from the face champion, to whatever that corner chop exchange dance thing was. Using your PPV to this to set up a trios match is backwards and wrong.

    Hardy and Page did well. Kept it under control and relatively simple until the now mandatory run ins.

    I hope the Best Friends-Miro angle is over. It's been on way too long and the interest is gone.

    Tag match highlighted a lot of Young Buck issues. Their heet and shine segments are terrible. No fire and no emotion in an angle where their dad got attacked. Miro worked with more rage and he was upset at his butler not giving notice. We also work in the indeBUCKtible cliche where they take a baseball shot and the rope piledriver and still kick out. The first Metzler driver attempt when Nick flipped himself into position for the Liontamer was ugly. I didn't like it.

    I don’t think the issue is Moxley not having an answer for the Good Brothers. His character is a lone wolf that basically threatened to jeopardize the career of anyone crazy to step in the ring with him because of how violent he is. 

    And his only friend in the promotion, Eddie Kingston turned on him for a chance to win the title. That’s why if AEW had a more competent production team the ending would have been more impactful.

    But for the match, he’s a lone wolf character that has no more friends left. 

    The issue is that they had so much interference and fuckery in the other matches instead of protecting their main event. Which is a common problem in AEW.

    AEW trying to remove the clip of the dud from the internet is kind of a bummer. Excalibur awkwardly reacting like a major explosion just happened instead of Cody’s pyro at half strength cracks me up.

    Anyway, I don’t like death matches but feel really bad for Omega and Moxley for having to go through that only to have a post match screw up completely over shadow the match. 

    • Like 1
  4. 1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

    That's not Tony's fault.  There's handful of guys that are out there who would be bigger signings and they are Punk and Brock.  if dumb fans thought those two were coming that is because they are dumb..  not because Tony said we signed a "HOF worthy"  talent.  

    When the speculation went crazy, having people leak that the signing is shocking is on him and was not a good idea.

    Similar to the “this will change wrestling forever” or whatever that was for a Dynamite a few months back.

    AEW has a history of overhyping things and the problem with that is people will stop believing you, so if you have something that matches the hype, fewer people will show up to check it out.

    • Like 1
  5. 7 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

    Cody is a face because he's an EVP, in charge of his own creative, and thinks he, the person, is a face IRL.  There's nothing else to say but I'll just repost something I wrote three months ago since, as my man @The Naturalwrote, the Cody Hate Train appears to be picking up passengers:

     

    He actually kind of started off as a heel (I recall him being a major dick in the promos leading up to the first ppv match with his brother) but the fans really got behind him after the match with Dustin.

    He’s also largely been the face of the EVPs since he does all of the conference calls.

    It’d be a little weird to do fan service on those calls and then be a total heel on the shows.

  6. 22 minutes ago, J.T. said:

    Well, I hate people whose suspension of disbelief is not uniform, so I guess we are even.

    It's pro wrestling.  AEW is partnered with DDT. 

    DDT put a championship belt on a ladder FFS, and the ladder even had a retirement ceremony.   It was the best thing ever. 

    It annoys me when people can buy into gimmicks like Bray Wyatt being possessed by a demon or the Question Mark being the master of a martial art that doesn't exist that originated from a nation that doesn't exist, but have problems with the math of a small girl beating a larger woman.

    I actually don’t mind Riho. The size difference between her and most women isn’t that significant and she’s usually able to get the crowd behind her. 

    I just hate that people act like Rey Mysterio wasn’t jacked and really strong, so they can justify short wrestlers with sleight builds.

    The Question Mark was a comedy character that didn’t actually dominate with his fake martial art. I don’t watch the WWE anymore, so I can’t comment on that.

    • Like 1
  7. 49 minutes ago, J.T. said:

    There Is nothing wrong with Riho's size.  If you bought Rey Mysterio Jr. all of these years, you can give Riho a pass.

    I hate that people throw this comparison out as a justification for every small person. I saw Rey Mysterio bench 315 when I was in HS in the early 00’s.

    He’s short but he was jacked and strong asf. 

  8. 36 minutes ago, Valcourt said:

    Regardless of who shows up, one of the coolest things about AEW gaining momentum and announcing a new dude to the AEW roster is the return of this excitement of who it could be.

    I've been texting with a close friend who is just barely less hardcore about wrestling than I am, and we've been going back and forth on who we wish it would be (Punk, Hero or Bryan, but with no chance of it being Bryan) to who we hope it isn't (Angle, Steiner, RVD). We haven't had talks like this since we were in our late teens-early 20's. It's very fun. Just reminds me how awesome it is that there is another brand that is doing well, and that brand is working with OTHER brands. It's really really cool.

     

    Yeah, it is cool to talk about wrestling and come up with crazy theories. My friend had an insane theory about it being Ryback the hall of fame caliber talk was meant to set him up as a top heel. Which I think is less crazy than the Undertaker but it’s all fun.

    • Like 1
  9. 1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

    Fuck the casual fans.  Why are we so concerned about whether AEW can draw casuals?  How about we just hope for a good show and let them worry about the business end?  What is more enjoyable:

    Waiting on a surprise wrestler and saying, "man, I hope this guy is a draw that can bring in people who barely like wrestling and make TK some money!"

    OR

    Waiting on a surprise wrestler and saying, "man, I hope this guy is really fucking good at wrestling so I can enjoy this shit even more!"

     

    When did we stop being wrestling fans and instead became fans of business?  When did we trade in Pro Wrestling Illustrated for Pro Balance Sheet Illustrated?

    Here's who I hope shows up for either of these roles or both, even though some are impossible due to contracts, because I fucking like wrestling and not TK's bank account or whether people who barely like wrestling will be drawn to this shit:

    Chris Hero

    Chris Dickinson

    Calvin Tankman

    Blake Christian

    Hoodfoot

    Thomas Santell

    Mike Bailey

    Tom Lawlor

    O'Shay Edwards

    Lord Crewe

    The amazing and resurgent Suge D working his bitter heel gimmick

    Anybody being criminally misused in WWE or NXT

    Whoever @NoFistsJustFlipsis

    I like watching a good wrestling match.  I don't give two good shits whether somebody is a draw and might rope in the casuals.

    This is not meant to be a slight of @Bryan  It's meant to be a slight of this bullshit mentality.

    I’m not concerned about the business I’m concerned about how the wrestler is perceived.

    A surprise is supposed to illicit an excited reaction from the crowd.


    Evil Uno and Stu Grayson’s debut fell flat because over half the crowd didn’t know who they were. The Butcher and the Blade had an even more muted reaction with their surprise debut because even less people knew who they were.

    I’m familiar with half the names on your list and would be excited by some of them but if I was in the audience and they announced someone named Hoodfoot...I’d be like: “Who..? What a weird name.” Instead of going crazy that someone I didn’t expect to be there showed up.

    Maybe Hoodfoot is amazing. But I’ve never heard that name until today (and I’m sure I’m not alone) so if he were the final participant both he and AEW would be be better served with a video package or a series of video packages hyping him up.

    Then people would be anticipating seeing him debut and so would get a much better reaction than the bafflement other indie guys have received in AEW when they made their surprise debuts.

     

    • Like 1
  10. 7 minutes ago, Jiji said:

    Was thinking Mike Bailey as a possibility for the ladder match but he's said it's going to take time to get a visa and all that. Could be downplaying it to throw people off, but I doubt it. Page is obviously a better personality/character than Bailey, but Bailey's work is pretty damn fun. 

    I really hope AEW doesn’t have an indie guy none of the casual fans have heard of debut as a surprise again. It never works and puts them in a bad position to start. Grayson and Uno, Butcher and the Blade just disastrous debuts. They’d have been so much better off with video hype packages before their debuts.

    Anyway, I think the only name that moves the needle for me is Brock.

    As others have said, Angle coming back for a match or program would be fine (especially since the way the WWE retired him was not cool) but multiple years.

    CM Punk, I guess he’d move the needle for some time but it’s been a long time and he looked foolish in the UFC. I personally never got the appeal.

    Christian would have been cool 10 years ago. And if they sign him I think AEW is in danger of starting like it exists to serve as a pension plan for aging wrestlers.

    I can’t imagine Vince letting someone else sign Brock, so if he showed up I would be legitimately shocked.

    The only other shocking signing would be a New Japan guy. I don’t follow it closely enough to know the contract status of anyone but if someone like Okada or Ospreay showed up as a signee, I’d also lose my mind in disbelief at what I was seeing.

  11. 2 minutes ago, EVA said:

    Nyla beating Britt was...something.  Not really sure where this tournament is going now.

    Yeah, that’s incredibly baffling. AEW just can’t seem to get out of its own way with some of the booking decisions.

    You belt has consistently been outshined by another promotions on your own show because none of you champions have had mass appeal. You have got a highly entertaining heel character and they’re doing a slow burn or just have no plans to put the title on her.

    I don’t get it. 

    • Like 1
  12. I was pretty down on this show until the end.

    The battle royale was pretty meh. And I’ve been a Jericho fan since he was a conspiracy victim in WCW but he’s not looking to good...and it seemed like he was blown up from the battle royale. I know he’s over 50 and everyone has an expiration date but it’s kind of sad.

    Hopefully, FTR Kayfabe murders little Marko, so I never have to see him on tv again.

    He and MJF doing the Young Bucks pose after they were eliminated made me laugh though.

    Lance Archer and Eddie Kingston in the lumberjack match was meh. I don’t like the WWE booking of a rematch a week later. But I guess they needed to make Archer look strong for the KENTA tag match they’re teasing.

    The Hangman Matt Hardy tag was pretty meh. The best part was Hardy stealing the pin and his celebration afterwards.

    The match of the night was clearly Britt Baker vs Thunder Rosa despite the finish not being smooth.

    I liked the Jade Cargill package and wish they’d have started with that instead of having her debut with a really awkward promo when nobody knew who she was.

    The main event was just typical AEW tag team chaos. The rules are completely abandoned in favor of doing moves to the point that you lose track of who is legal and wonder why AEW even has a ref.

    That being sad, I enjoyed Fenix’s crazy acrobatic moves. I also don’t get the hate for the Good Brothers they are obviously really good. I guess they don’t do a lot of splashy video game moves though. Whatever.

    I was not expecting KENTA to kick down the forbidden door. That was a really exciting and shocking way to conclude the show and make up for a pretty lackluster rest of the show.

  13. 52 minutes ago, AxB said:

    So Danny Limelight is really good. Anyone not seeing the value in Marko Stunt now has to be indulging in some sort of ideological myopia. And Fite.tv screwed us buy not showing any Wrestling during picture in pitcher.

    Also someone called Chuck Taylor "Diet Bradshaw" and I laughed.

    Stunt only has value in the ring to the people that find things like his opponent forcing him to fellate a dildo in a match at an indy show entertaining. A niche within a niche.

    A casual fan flipping channels seeing a 4’10 95 pound goof is going to laugh and change the channel. I know because that’s what my friends that used to watch wrestling did when I told them about AEW and he replaced Luchasaurus back when they first started.

    Aside from the visual absurdity of him in the ring, he astonishingly works a typical indy style: do moves, take moves/sell, stop selling to do moves.

    He can be a mascot for Jurassic Express and get beat up by heels, I guess. But if AEW’s goal is to grow its brand to a wider audience this guy should never ever wrestle on national tv.

    • Like 3
    • Sad 1
  14. Pretty underwhelming show.

    Every match going through picture and picture is a little tedious.

    Omega and the Good Brothers versus the jobbers went on way too long.

    FTR versus Jungle Boy and Marko Stunt definitely didn’t need a commercial break. Stunt should not be  wrestling on national tv, it’s embarrassing and I don’t know if I could come up with a way to make them look worse.

    I enjoyed Darby getting rag dolled with  those nasty bumps but the finish was pretty lame.

     

    • Like 1
  15. 4 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

    Do people not understand how Twitter works? If it's only 10 people you would never see the tweets. 10 isn't enough for the algorithm to pull it up in your "for you" section. Generally tweets need to be in the 10,000s to trend, but has to at least be in the 1,000s to show up on anyone's radar in the "for you" section. So thousands and thousands of people were talking about Jericho not 10.

     

    Doesn't negate your main point. Just felt the need to point out it's a way bigger sample size than 10.

     


    Okay you win the thread. This is a GOOD take lol.

    The Twitter trending algorithm just trends based on terms that are in use regardless of context.

    For instance, earlier today Aminu was trending for me under NBA but 75% of the posts were black people referring to a story a movie or something I couldn’t figure out.

    On any given day there are probably hundreds of tweets referencing Jericho (more when he wrestles on Wednesdays), so it wouldn’t take much for him to trend.

    I don’t know how many people were tweeting about it but it wasn’t a significant amount and the NBA people weren’t starting from zero. 
     

    So everything needs to be kept in perspective.

    • Like 1
  16. 15 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

    Honestly I didn't think anyone was making a big deal to begin with lol. It's an interesting insight into what non fans think, and considering what might appeal to them. Their follower amounts are kind of irrelevant. Does a person's opinion matter less if they're unpopular? Maybe it's coming off like I'm saying they should change things based off of that insight. That's not what I'm trying to say at all. I look at it more like it was a free market research group. Don't like take Jericho off tv because they were making fat jokes or anything drastic like that. But the consensus was that it looked like a bootleg WWE. Maybe that was a blind spot for AEW. So in that sense maybe they can learn from this free marketing research and tweak some visuals.

    But his original idea my first post was talking about was that "maybe just focus on retaining the audience you have" is a bad thought process to have. That's all.

    The problem is that people are conflating 10 people shit posting on the internet with the NBA fan base when that’s not necessarily the case.

    They should and obviously do want to grow their fan base but overreacting to a few people on Twitter is not how you do that.

    And while growing your fan base is important in order to grow you have to maintain your fan base and attract new viewers. If you alienate your core audience by chasing new viewers you become TNA.

    And a good way to start down the TNA would be to panic and overreact to what a small fraction of NBA Twitter  tweeted.

    • Like 6
  17. On 12/24/2020 at 6:15 PM, A_K said:

    Love Jericho & his many evolutions over the years (decades), but the shape he's in is pretty disgraceful at the moment. He's a highly paid athlete, a marquee star, and looks like he's just rolled out of a several month booze-binge. I get that he's 50, but he's roughly the same age as The Rock & was more agile as an athlete than The Rock when competing as a peer, but look at that difference in physique between the two now. Someone can put me right with some examples, but can you imagine prime authoritarian-Vince allowing marquee stars to deteriorate & roll out like that? If so, who? Physically he's a shadow of even what he looked like on his post-WWE tour in NJPW a couple of years ago. Sting is over a decade older and ostensibly looks in better condition.

    RE: some segments of NBA fans' reaction to Dynamite .. are you really that surprised? I'd figure that AEW is pretty blazenly & deliberately politically-correct in its outlook. As mentioned, it has a heavily left-leaning fanbase. While there are some more mature themes to the booking it is not the hyper sexualised / graphic material of WWE at zenith-popularity that these uninitiated spectators may have been exposed to before falling off in years gone by. There's a lot of humour that is going to come across as straight up lame to segments of the non-watching populace suddenly introduced to it via mainstream testosterone sports lead-in (if watching various half dressed dudes in gimp masks giving Adam Page homo-erotic piggy backs, or male dinosaur/Amazonian cliques, for example). Up to AEW on if its trying to appeal to that audience. If not, so what, who cares what they think, its not the target demographic? If yes, then they can resist existing in an echo-chamber & try best to incorporate the feedback.

    I agree with your sentiments but AEW is a promotion that wants you to take a joke like Marko Stunt seriously, employs Joey Janela, pushes Chuck “Dad Bod” Taylor as one of the top tag team guys. So I could understand how he could not care.

    But what makes it worse is that he said a couple of years ago that he was gaining weight on purpose because the AEW roster was so small he wanted to work more of a bully style. I forget the old time wrestler he referenced.

    The problem is he doesn’t actually look intimidating, he looks like shit. So he should quit drinking for a while and lean up.

    But comparing him to the Rock isn’t fair. The Rock is several inches taller, so can carry more weight better. He’s also not taking any bumps and hasn’t been on the road in a long time. And I would guess that The Rock has more gas (or some type of exotic pharmaceuticals) running through his veins than you local ConocoPhillips.

    I guess Jericho could hire The Rock’s pharmaceutical consultant if he’s committed to being a physically imposing presence. But he should probably just lean up—carrying the extra weight probably isn’t good for his joints at this point.

  18. 58 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

    AEW was going after NBA fans. What's being said by NBA fans is relevant in that moment, even if they're on Twitter. Do they represent every NBA fan? Obviously not. But NBA Twitter was vocal. It's the cross-section we have.

    Last night was an unfiltered first impression for them. When they ask why Jericho is still wrestling and is AEW a bootleg copy of WWE, that's not good.

    Whether one thinks they're bumping their gums for self entertainment is fair. But in that timeframe, Jericho and by extension AEW, was found lacking by someone outside the usual wrestling confines.

    As far as politics, it goes beyond being Republican. A lot of wrestlers are GOP. But Jericho had 45 Jr on his show, holds super-spreader concerts, went All Lives Matter online. It's too much to ignore for many. Hager has long had the air of being a dunce. His POV just reinforces what many already thought of him. Ryker has the same stench.

    Let’s be real: It wasn’t a full court press for NBA fans. It started after 10 on the East Coast and it was a taped show in which nothing big happened and was a transition show to their big shows.

    Anything that isn’t the WWE will be perceived that way because the WWE had a monopoly for 20+ years. Part of AEW’s challenge is defeating that perception. And that’s why guys like Marko Stunt and Joey Janela should never be featured on Dynamite.

    But you’re reading way too much into Twitter. Most of the people watching the game don’t use Twitter, and something like 10% of Twitter users create 95% of the content, so it’s likely that very few of the NBA viewers that have Twitter accounts were even tweeting.

    It doesn’t seem like it had an impact on ratings. AEW still beat NXT despite the late start. We'll see next week if they were able to convert any of the NBA fans.

    And it’s just a matter of publicly expressing opinions contrary to the left that is the issue in the current climate. 
     

    Jericho has said multiple times that he’s not politically sophisticated and also had Andrew Yang on his podcast. I don’t know if he donated to Trump but if he did I’d guess it was due to a belief that he’d open things up sooner than Biden rather than any significant political convictions. And Ryker just tweeted that he supported the President. The stench? LOL

  19. Legitimately cannot believe people are suggesting that Jade Cargill should have been featured as the intro from the NBA game because of some tenuous connection to Shaq. She’s green and not a very good promo.

    Do you hate ratings?

    The only possible better option to keep people watching would be Sting and maybe not because the NBA audience skews a little younger. And AEW likes to start its shows with matches to differentiate itself from WWE.

    Some people were mocking Jericho’s physique but they were watching and there were probably more watching that didn’t comment.

    Also, this is a company that employs Joey Janela, Marko Stunt, and Chuck Taylor, so having a good physique obviously isn’t a requirement. 

    Jericho should probably consider wrestling in a T-Shirt if he can’t lean out at his age.

    Anyway, I thought it was a pretty good show except for the Dark Order vs Jurassic Express match. Even the small guy in the DO taking bumps off of missile drop kicks from Marko Stunt looked absolutely ridiculous. And quite honestly, they should be ashamed of themselves for leaving their feet for that clown.

    I like how the show was bookended with two young tag teams looking good in losses to established guys. 

    Although calling out another ref to count the pin fall when they’d just blatantly cheated is a little weird. If he has the authority to count the pin fall why couldn’t he disqualify them?

    I liked their music video they did too and hope that’s something they’ll continue to do. I think it’s a good way to get the gimmick over and to differentiate themselves from Cena a little bit since I don’t recall him ever doing one.

    AEW’s taped shows are never as good as the live shows but overall this was pretty good.

  20. 6 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:

    I think the main event would have been a lot better if Kenny just hit the One Winged Angel without the comeback. Just drop the Poison Rana onwards. Joey got his hope spot with the fast start, Kenny took over and ate him alive. Done and done. I like Joey, but he does not need to be making a comeback on the world champion.

    Kenny vs Fenix next week? Oh fuck yes.

    Otherwise, this show mostly felt like a placeholder after they did roughly everything in every segment the last two weeks. I'd like to see more of a balance between  "almost Russo paced" and "show was fine, but nothing really happened."

    I don’t like Joey Janela but otherwise I agree with you on this.

    I also thought it was a little weird that Omega was more incapacitated from the poison rana than being put through a table by a guy jumping from the top rope to the outside.

    And I think they’re just in a bit of a holding pattern until the New Years shows with next week’s show not starting until 10 or later because of the NBA game.

    I just hope this doesn’t kill their momentum.

  21. 58 minutes ago, Jiji said:

    They'll lose a semi-competitive match against the Bucks and then go back to Dark obscurity for the most part I'm guessing. 

    I am fine with them pushing these kids into prominent matches here and there, especially during that awkward period after a PPV but before they start building to the next PPV or big TV special.

    Yep, I like them, so I’m kind of bummed that’s the path they’re obviously going.

    But getting a tag title match on tv a couple months after Tony Khan made you a tag team isn’t the worst thing in the world.

    And they both have the charisma/it factor, so they’ll be back.

  22. On 12/14/2020 at 12:34 PM, Technico Support said:

    I'm taking Ross' dumb statement to its most ridiculous conclusion. I agree that some stuff does go too far.  Certain things absolutely should be death moves.  But a DDT or a superkick aren't them, and that's exactly what he said.  You, on the other hand, discussing Canadian Destroyers and whatnot, are arguing something Ross did not say.

    His logic that "they used to be finishers so they always should be" is not sound at all.  Like I said, a vertical suplex used to be a finish.  Antonino Rocca won matches with a dropkick.  It would be ridiculous to end a match like that today.  Things change.       

    My point is that the same logic that has turned DDTs and super kicks into meaningless moves is the same logic behind the Canadian Destroyer going down that same path.

     

  23. 2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

    If every move that was ever a finisher was still a finisher, we couldn't have wrestling because every match would last about 5 seconds.  I mean for fuck's sake, a plain old vertical suplex was a finisher once.  Ron Garvin beat dudes with a punch.  Bruno and Graham won with a bearhug.  The biggest star of the 80s beat guys with a legdrop.  Should those things also still be finishers by Jr's logic?

    Wrestling does evolve and if you don't like it, just watch old shit on Youtube or WWE network and shut the fuck up. 

    I do agree that timing on top rope moves could be better so it looks less phony, but I rather have phoniness than have catchers mistime it and guys land on their heads.  It's a small, meaningless complaint.

    How did matches in the 1950’s last more than 5 seconds?

    And if you have to constantly up the ante or “evolve” where will be in 20 years? Will guys be routinely kicking out of Tiger Driver 91’s and piledrivers from the top rope into flaming tables wrapped in barbed wire?

    A full nelson is a finisher in the WWE in 2020. How people respond to moves depends on how they’re portrayed and utilized.

    It’s also not just the DDT or super kick that have been devalued, guys are not only routinely kicking out of the Canadian destroyer but they’re frequently on offense a minute later.

    It’s not just that the dive into a crowd is contrived and telegraphed by the catchers but it’s also done excessively.

    Finishing people with a DDT would be boring and repetitive, so wrestling has to evolve...but literally every show has to feature at least one instance of someone jumping out of the ring onto someone or a group of people—-and frequently (almost always) it’s done more than once.

    That doesn’t add up.

     

    • Like 2
  24. 3 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said:

    Dax, probably in character, getting in on the drama.

     

    I don’t think he’s in character. 
     

    AEW matches have a tendency to be formulaic with the spots they use. Except for FTR matches which tend to be different from everything else.


    And can someone explain to me how a dive that is done by almost every wrestler male and female every week is a suicide dive? At least a dozen are performed without issue on tv every week...at some point shouldn’t it just be a dive?

    • Like 1
×
×
  • Create New...