NoFistsJustFlips
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Posts posted by NoFistsJustFlips
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I went into this with low expectations. The low expectations went to zero when The Giants decided to rush their punter on the field for a 4th and goal trick play on the opening drive where he threw a pass to the center. It's been all down hill from there. Freddie Kitchens is the worst play caller I think I've ever seen. What a world, I'm longing for Jason Garrett's return? 2020 is pure evil.
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If I see one person defend that little end segment, I will fly off into an uncontrollable rage. Pure utter dog shit. The work was fine in the match. Solid psychology. A few good teases. But then legit cable access level effects to set a body on fire that they didn't even PRETEND TO TRY and make look authentic. Just hokey embarrassing horse shit.
I don't mind Asuka & Charlotte winning, but it sure would be nice if they could balance a Women's Tag Title feud without needing the singles champions to be a part of it. I hate when they do that for the men too. But it's even more egregious with the women.
But yeah man. Burning sex dolls with a Fiend mask on them is not my idea of high art, or good storytelling. Just so fucking depressing that this is what the number once pro wrestling company in the world is. Bad fake hokey cringe worthy stupid low grade horror effects. That will just be ignored when Fiend shows up tomorrow like nothing happened.-
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They announced an INFERNO MATCH a couple days before the PPV? What?
God damn pal, that's a hell of an attraction... like one maybe you'd wanna promote? On TV? Or nah? 9 Hours of TV a week, but let's not use ANY of it to promote an INFERNO MATCH? LOL. Okay.-
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The ratings don't matter point is valid. WWE is more profitable now than ever before. Compare that to Disney, who also is more profitable than ever as well. But Disney is also clicking at the highest quality they've ever had. WWE's quality isn't an all-time low, but it's not far behind. What counts more to a corporation tho? Profits or quality? Nothing is going to change in WWE until the profits change. So accept the poor quality programming, or jump off the ship (like 4 million + other viewers have in the last 15 years).
Even when Vince steps down, not much is gonna change if the profits are still there. It's the gourmet restaurant vs fast food argument. 99 billion served, even middle of the road food, is still 99 billion served
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As someone who grew up on 80s WWE and hasn't taken a break watching since, two main problems are very apparent to me.
1. In the late 80s the stories had a beginning a middle and an end. Shit happened that progressed the stories, and the stories didn't change randomly because Vince showed up to the building cranky and demanded rewrites. Now the time between story beats was very much stretched out because they were a syndication model and not a weekly cable model. But you got distinctive easy to understand, UNINTERUPTED stories. Hogan & Savage form a team because Andre & Dibiase together are too strong for either one of them. They vanquish Andre & Dibiase. Savage doesn't like Hogan being overly friendly with Liz. Liz gets hurt and Hogan leaves Savage hanging to tend to her. Savage snaps. Big money match, Hogan wins. Easy as fuck to follow.
Even more importantly the in between filler was compelling promos from easily defined characters in their own words. Hogan or Savage standing there with Mean Gene just spitting fire that flowed effortlessly because they knew their own characters. I'm gonna send you to the hospital. You aren't gonna take this belt. Ect. Not I'm gonna send you to a local medical facility. You won't defeat me in your championship opportunity. Today shit is so overly scripted and phony sounding. Everyone has to use official Vince McMahon verbiage and it ruins everything. Everyone sounds the same. And every writer is like a 4th grader trying to increase the font to stretch his book reportto hit the page count minimum. Over compensating and making things sound WAY more fake then just letting a wrestler cut a fucking promo. Like @Burgundy LaRue said, the best stuff in the women's tag story line was all on Raw Talk. And that's not surprising to me. That's the characters themselves cutting promos that aren't trying to over compensate. It's insanely simple. And simple is usually best.
2. The brand split fucking sucks. It waters down every single thing about WWE. There's 18 fucking titles in WWE. That's way too many. None of them mean anything. Trying to make Raw & Smackdown as distinctive brands has largely failed because they're the exact same thing. Same crew, same writers, and the talent rotates so frequently there's no REAL separation. Like, there's 4 world champions right now. How can you promote someone as the best when there are 4 equals under the same roof? Sure NXT & NXT UK champions aren't portrayed as equal to Raw & Smackdown. But it's so muddy because Raw & Smackdown are supposed to be equals. So a lot of fans would assume all top brand champs are supposed to be equals.When Hogan was on top, he was THE man. When Austin was on top he was THE man. Compare that to now. Who is supposed to be THE man? Reigns right? We all know that. But WWE tries to say Reigns & McIntyre are both THE man. So neither of them actually come off as THE man. The whole product needs restructured to make sense. Have one WWE. With one world champion. One women's world champion. One set roster. Instead of spreading the talent so thin, load ONE roster with the very best you can. Keep NXT it's own thing, but streamline that shit too. Have a main roster. Have a developmental roster. NXT / NXT UK / NXT India. It's all developmental. Do the separate shows but quit acting like they all need to have separate brands.
TLDR : Scripted promos, frequent story tinkering, and the brand split make WWE a chore to get through. Restructuring and scraping the overly scripted promos are the only way to put a pulse back into the product.
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14 minutes ago, Ziggy said:
In NXT they have the luxury of going over their matches several times over a period of days most times.
Which is how it should be on the main roster too. You can't tell me Raw & SD wouldn't benefit from the format being finalized a week before the show goes live vs a few hours / minutes before they go live. Not saying you're saying this per se, but I've seen that used as a knock a lot. That NXT workers get more time to prepare. That shouldn't be a knock. That's a good thing. And if the main roster had their shit together they'd have a week every week to talk out psychology and spots instead of so little forethought being put in.
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1 hour ago, Burgundy LaRue said:
With NXT, he had the lengthy entrance with candles and the vampire rise. He was given a certain aura that worked well in the smaller setting. It wasn't going to translate to the next level.
But like, is current day WWE "the next level"?
How come he can't have that same aura? NXT gets 50% of Raw's viewers. Do you think those people don't also watch Raw? Or that the half that don't watch NXT would automatically hate any presentation created by NXT? It's a weird disconnect. You have the minor leagues to get people ready for the major leagues, but then you make them completely start over in the major leagues and take away everything you taught them to rely on. The only true answer for the system to work is put the same vision at the head of both tables. If Vince hates NXT wrestlers' work / aura / presentation, then put someone there that creates the work / aura / presentation that Vince likes. (I mean I would rather vice versa, keep NXT how it is and give Triple H the head of creative on the main roster too but I digress).
WWE is bleeding viewers. This isn't me shitting on anyone who likes it. There's still plenty of positives to get enjoyment out of it. The top of the women's roster kills it all the time. Reigns new character work is awesome. But this is eerily similar to 1994 / 1995 to me. Yeah there's some good shit like Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels on the shows, but you gotta sit through so much dumb TL Hopper / Aldo Montoya / The Sultan shit to get to it. They need a creative shake up that totally re imagines the product like the attitude era did. Like the rock and wrestling era did. Something so stark and different that it jumps interest. And I just don't think Vince has it in him.-
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On 12/10/2020 at 10:23 PM, Jiji said:
Wow. Back4Blood, June 2021. Exactly what I want out of this game.
I had no idea a Left 4 Dead sequel (kinda) was in the works. Hell fucking yes. Looks really fun. Now let's just hope I get a Series X by June lol.-
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3 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:
Why wouldn’t they get Albert to train them? His US run was a failure(Due entirely to his look, and not being any bigger than most big guys in wrestling at the the time), but it’s pretty obvious he understands how to play a big man in the ring.
Albert is the head of the whole system, he's got way too many responsibilities. They have like 100 people training at the PC at a time. Like 8 rings full of different classes. He's got to be able to be up to speed on all 100 workers' progresses and make sure everything is running smoothly.
But the point is moot because you don't have to be a big guy to explain how to work like a big guy. I'm sure experience big men workers have a few more tricks in their bag, but any performer that understands ring work at a high level, like a Gulak or Pearce, can definitely explain the psychology of why a big man works how he should. Just like most big men could probably explain how to work like a small guy to green small guys. Working a match isn't a one person job. There's always at least two involved. You get a lot of experience and knowledge of styles that aren't your own just by planning a match. And picking the person's brain asking why they do it that way, ect.
I bet Shawn Michaels could explain the ins and outs of why Undertaker does a lot of what he does during a match. I'm sure Undertaker could explain the ins and outs if why Shawn Michaels does a lot of what he does during a match.
Regardless, this is fucking dumb. Keith Lee is a high end worker. Otis is acceptable for his spot on the card. Dabbo-kato & Dio have both been in the system for YEARS. If YEARS of classes haven't gotten it in their heads, I don't think one more is gonna do it. But whatever, Vince gonna Vince.
20 minutes ago, Eoae said:Are Lee, Otis, etc. actually demoted? I.E., sent back to NXT or whatever? The articles on Meltzet’s website doesn’t say anything about the wrestlers in question being removed from the main roster. What the writeup actually says is they were asked/told to take extra classes at the pc on Tuesday/Thursday (non-tv days).
I’m a little confused.
They are all still main roster guys. They work Monday or Friday. But on Tuesdays & Thursdays they are also now required to show up at the PC and do classes. Which everyone not on the main roster already does Monday-Friday. It's less of a demotion and more of an insult.
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On 12/3/2020 at 9:59 PM, Hayabusa said:
Don't know if this got asked, but what if Richie Steamboat never had to retire from injuries, and actually worked on improving himself?*
*In the nxt/fcw doc i think they gave Richie a mention that he just didn't have the heart for the industry and didn't really try to make it all connect not just in the ring but in his head too
Richie could go. He was green but he had 'it'. I have no idea why they threw shade at him in the FCW doc, but he was def a hard worker. He just came through the system at a shitty time where they didn't want fire, they wanted 100 monotonous Randy Orton clones. If he came through the system any time other than when he did, and his body held up, his ceiling was at least high end Dolph Ziggler level on the main roster. Flirting with the main event, probably not THE guy, but consistent upper card.
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There's def more than one time the office forced Cena into some media appearance or commercial campaign, but I'm fairly sure the specific example Punk was referring to was already mentioned. Under Armor wanted Shelton Benjamin for a commercial. WWE said no take Cena. Under Armor said nah we good and went on without a wrestler.
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45 minutes ago, Loki said:
Eh...but the "winter is coming" kind of transcends the show/book. I've never watched Game of Thrones, but I get the reference.
@Andy in Kansashad the partial quote. But the full quote explains it more. Tony said he's never seen the show but it's one of his mom's favorites. And he went to Warner Media to ask for permission to use the name since they own the IP through HBO. So it actually was specifically based on GOT, and they got the proper permission to use it. Which already puts Kahn in the top 5% of the most intelligent promoters, since the other 95% would just use the name without getting the actual legal rights to do so lol.
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Loved the Sting debut. I too thought they were teasing Hobbs hitting Taz with the belt for how long the setup was taking lol. But pretty cool moment. The opening riff of his new music sounded familiar but it wasn't till Sting came out that I realized the first two notes are the same of his WCW theme. Slick. Not sure why there was fake snow falling tho lol. Maybe this is night king sting, and not crow sting.
I'm not a fan of the Impact crossover stuff. Impact is a failed brand with nothing but stink on it, and I think the chances that stink rubs off on the AEW brand are high. Impact's women's roster is great. Their tag stuff is pretty good. But their main event scene is horrendous. And while D'Amore & Callis have done their best in righting the ship, it's just a waste of time. If the extent of the crossover is Callis as Keny's manager & Gallows & Anderson as his heavies, okay I'm cool with that. But AEW guys showing up on Impact brings the AEW guys down, not the Impact brand up.
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I'm pulling for an RG3 victory. The undefeated Steelers beaten by a washed up injury prone former Washington "franchise" turned multi year backup quarterback 6 days after the game was originally scheduled to be played is a 2020 story I can get behind.
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29 minutes ago, hammerva said:
Shocker that the only game worth anything on Thursday is the one with COVID issues. The virus is punishing us more by ignoring the Lions vs Texans
Cowboys vs Football Team is for a share of 1st Place in The NFC East. How dare you discriminate against them. First place is first place, 3 wins or not
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On 11/22/2020 at 12:01 AM, Jiji said:
They basically have a WCW style of ring, do they not? Look, I love Kenny Omega to bits, but that's not a fight he wants to have. I'm picking WCW ring over just about anybody.
I can shed a little light on this, I've wrestled in WCW rings, TNA rings, WWE ring, & ECW rings (not the companies, just rings that originated there).
-The WCW ring was the best feeling one of them all. They had 16 foot rings and 18 foot rings. But they were custom to WCW. They didn't bounce like a trampoline, but the bump was soft. The ropes felt like planks of wood, which was great to spring off of but would give a little when you hit them. I'd liken the bump to amateur wrestling mats placed on top of pillows. Solid impact, but lots of absorption.
-The newer WWE rings bump pretty good (post 1998). But they are 20 foot and a little springy when you run. You also get tired taking 4 square feet more on every send off exchange if you aren't adapted to it. The ropes suck because they're real rope. They bend a lot and don't give you nearly the spring cable ropes do. Which means they break a lot more often than cable. WWE ropes are a little higher than any other brand as well, which is probably why extremely short dudes like Rey Mysterio find it more comfortable to rebound off the middle rope instead of stretching upward to hit the top rope right.
-ECW rings are what transformed into Highspots rings and get sold to most indy companies these days. Cable ropes. Good bump. 18 foot by 18 foot. Very springy while you run tho. Now AEW decided to use the Highspots / ECW style ring but custom make them themselves so they could make them 20x20 like WWE. They get the benefit of a trampoline like landing, but running on it has to be hell on your knees. The extra 4 square feet means the boards are longer and bend more in the middle amplifying the bouncing effect that was already high on Highspot rings. There's no way bumping on this ring hurts more than a New Japan ring tho. New Japan rings are pretty solid. Like a full on platform with just an amateur wrestling mat. I think Kenny's complaint isn't that it hurts more per say, but that it's so springy that it bumps completely differently and you have to take the bumps differently because of it or else your landing can fuck you up.
-Worst of all tho are the 6 sided TNA rings. For fuck's sake man. Bumping in that felt like bumping in an empty parking spot. No give what so ever because of the extra tension from a hexagon shape. No bounce. No give. I'd rather take a suplex on the god damn floor. The ropes were also so god damn tight hitting them felt like it was going to slice through your torso. Awful.-
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One thing everyone seems to be missing here, not all characters are the same. You don't book John Cena like you book Rey Mysterio and vice versa.
Darby should not be this unbeatable undefeated super athlete. That doesn't jive with his look or his gimmick. For him to remain a feisty never say die underdog, he has to lose some. You can't book Darby like Omega or Moxley, because then he's not an underdog anymore. And that wont jive with how the structure of the matches he works will be laid out.
Now I'm not arguing the sentiment here tho, it was probably short sighted to make his first time out as champion a loss. But it's not that big of a deal. Because he's not someone that should be dominant. He also took a top rope version of a top of the card main event heel's finisher. So it was a loss, but a protected one. Building up to him beating a near unbeaten Cage is going to help him more than just randomly beating Cage during a tag match that means nothing.-
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16 hours ago, odessasteps said:
I’d think being in outdoor venue in winter would be dicey, even in Florida, especially at 8 PM local time.
The stadium they're moving to is a dome. So no weather issues. Just a large cavernous 40,000 seat empty dome filled will 100,000 video screens.
ETA: Oh shit this was about AEW not the Thunderdome. My bad. Your point makes a lot more sense now.-
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12 minutes ago, Goodear said:
What exactly is full Cleaner? I know people have been talking about it for a while but I'm not sure what exactly it means other than being a heel and having brooms around.
Not sure if serious? lol
A cleaner is a hitman. When people say go full cleaner they want him to go back to his full on heel gimmick when he was the hitman for the Bullet Club. Dark shades, leather jackets, jet black dyed hair (that part isnt gonna happen), more serious and shit. He's kinda been this aww shucks silly babyface in AEW. Still presented as a threat in the ring obviously, but people want his more focused New Japan presentation.
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Oh and since @TheVileOnedidn't know why the Tyson match was dropped, he signed on for a big money boxing exhibition vs Roy Jones Jr. He was originally going to work a match with Jericho at All Out but had to back out to go into training for the November 28th fight.
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12 hours ago, Eivion said:
Not picking a dog in this fight since I really only pay attention to AEW via discussion here, but something people may want to keep in mind is Shaq pretty much chickened out on a match with the Big Show at Wrestlemania multiple times despite constantly talking about wanting to do it for years. Does AEW have him signed already to do a match for sure?
Obvious troll is obvious. lol just kidding. Yeah I think he backed out because WWE was adamant he'd have to fully train like a full time wrestler for a few months and put all his time and effort into it. WWE can be pretty stubborn about doing things their way. I'm fairly certain AEW takes the opposite approach with him. Hey dude just show up and we'll work around any limitations you have. We'll put you with Cody, he can create motion around you and make it easier. No training requirements, just a match and a payday.
12 hours ago, TheVileOne said:It takes a specific type of booking to make it work well. And AEW didn't set the bar very high for Shaq's arrival tonight.
Ah yes, let's not forget the gold standard of celebrity appearances, Mike Tyson in 1998. The first appearance of which had Mike Tyson in a sky box at The Royal Rumble talking about his favorite wrestler "Cold Stone". It was later on that he had that sweet pull apart. You'll get no argument out of me, that segment sucked ass last night. Jade's promo is one of the worst promos ever in wrestling. But that doesn't spell doom for the whole idea of it. Comparing PacMan Jones to Shaq is like comparing The Barbarian to The Rock (but they both have THE in their name!). Comparing TNA to AEW is also real dumb. AEW is profitable. AEW has professionals in a marketing capacity. AEW is connected to a national sports franchise. TNA was connected to a barn in Nashville with no professionals working PR.
I loved the Brandi promo. It's not my place to comment on code switching. I understand that complaint and would agree with anyone that feels that way. But I did like her coming out 0 to 60 tearing into Jade. That was the only fucking pulse that lame ass segment had lol.-
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2 hours ago, Craig H said:
Also, my big wish for wrestling games for years now is NO COMMENTARY! We don't fucking need it! Nearly all commentary in all sports games not named MLB: The Show SUCKS. Wrestling games are especially bad. Fuck it. I don't need to hear it. I just want to play the fucking game and not hear some stilted ass commentary from JR, Excalibur, and Tony.
Yes. But allow me to suggest one tweak: What if there were 3 or 4 moves per commentator that made a talking head pop up like the TOASTY thing in Mortal Kombat? Hit a Superkick and Excalibur's head pops into frame yelling Superkick Party. Falcon Arrows Excalibur yells she's / he's done the deal. Give all of them a few. Even Taz. You get a little bit of that flavor from TV, but like you said, we don't need full on commentary and it usually takes away from the game. Just a nod to video gaming history while doing something innovative for a wrestling game.
I so want the character screen to be like Revenge where everyone is placed under their faction. The Dark Order. The Inner Circle. Being The Elite. The Nightmare Family. Kingston & The Fam. Also give me the announcers as playable characters. And managers. And randoms. Like an updated AKI Man, The Jaguars Mascot, Kenny's Cleaner girls, Tony Kahn, Conrad Thompson, The Rock n Roll Express, Gangrel, Hurricane. The more like No Mercy this is, the more IN I am lol.-
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4 minutes ago, BrianS81177 said:
So when do we think the cutoff point is for roster members? Pre-Covid? I know Kingston and FTR are way too new to be in it at launch but what about Brodie Lee and Matt Hardy?
I would think since they said this game is still very early in development, not to expect it until at least Q4 2021 or even 2022. So the roster cut off wouldn't be until probably spring or early summer of 2021 if that's the case.
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They showed the brief 2 second clip of the Meltzer Driver in the create a wrestler looking mode. Just imagine the No Mercy engine being Rey Fenix (and this should only be Fenix) being on the turnbuckle and being able to run across the top rope and intercept Nick Jackson with a Cutter. But only if you time it right. Or being able to counter FTR doing The Shatter Machine with a running grapple Reverse Rana. Or giving Darby a unique reversal system like they gave the MMA guys because he's so quick.
So much potential. The n64 engine is by far the best engine and nothing in the last 20 years comes close. Just picturing what could be. Doing Unsanctioned matches with ridiculous weapons. The ridiculously high steel cage they used on Dynamite. Doing Casino Battle Royals (like the battle royal / royal rumble modes). Stadium Stampede matches. The Jaguars mascot as a playable character. Having the Hardy compound as a playable arena. lol I'm sure I need to temper my expectations, but it's pretty exciting.-
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AEW Dynamite - 12/23/2020
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
Posted
This is a bad take. It's a bad take in the sense that you seem to not understand why growing an audience is important. So what, market to only the people who watch already? Never grow? Never get bigger? Never make more money? The current audience is finite. Even if you keep 100% of the current audience for the next 50 years, they'll eventually move on / die out / pass away / ect. We were all non-fans at a point in our life. We checked it out a show, liked it, and got hooked. That's just how it works. If you don't try and reach for more than you already have, you'll never replenish the ones that leave.
The (conventional) TV consuming universe in The United States is roughly 120 million-ish. AEW doesn't even capture a full 1% of the possible viewers. Your take is basically saying it's futile to make steps to get any of the other 99% to try it out (so some of them can get hooked like we did). Or that analyzing what people who sampled did or didn't like is a waste. The NBA TV audience is larger than the Pro Wrestling audience. It's not wrong of people in here just making observations on what worked with them and what didn't.
I'm not a physical therapist so this is just a Google-Fu medical diagnosis. But it sounds like when you tear the pec muscle off of the bone, if you don't have surgery to reattach it, you get the Jericho / Undertaker / Scott Steiner chest. If you have the surgery to reattach it, it can heal. But if you don't, the center of your chest basically atrophies and the muscle tissue dies. Certain muscle injuries don't heal without surgery. And wrestlers, besides being tough guys, don't want to have to take a year to rehab. Because a year of rehab means a year of only making your downside guarantee and not any bigger payoffs.