NoFistsJustFlips
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Posts posted by NoFistsJustFlips
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No. Just no lol. You can make any argument you want when you twist the data to only include what you want it to include. FTR just main evented AEW's last PPV. They were a part of one of the main story lines of the last 3 months. Including main eventing Dynamite in the first Blood & Guts match. Their current story isn't apples to apples as the tag team champions defending the tag team titles. So why do you only count traditional tag matches for the point you're trying to prove?
They've gotten a ton of TV time in the last 3 months. But none of it counts because they weren't strictly two on two tag matches? Okay. But that means fucking nothing. That's you cherry picking what you want the results to be.
A dude asked why FTR aren't having tag matches every single episode of Dynamite. And I responded by saying that over exposes a talent and is something I think AEW tries to avoid. And what actually solidifies the point I'm trying to make is your stat on The Young Bucks. A lot of people (not everyone) are starting to get turned off by them. Well maybe it's because they're getting put out there too much in matches.
But only counting traditional two on two tag matches when trying to make a point about a team that has had more than just traditional two on two tag matches is disingenuous. And frankly pretty fucking stupid. Guys Britt Baker has had zero traditional tag matches in 2021. They obviously need to book her better. Why won't they push Britt Baker???-
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1 hour ago, Goodear said:
Stats are fun.
FTR haven't had a normal tag match since beating the Hughes Brothers on 4/22 on Elevation. They had a six man with Spears on Dynamite on 3/24 against The Blondes and Dante Martin. Their last normal tag on Dynamite was on 2/17 against the Sydal Brothers.
The Young Bucks by contrast have had 8 normal tag team matches in the same period all on Dynamite or PPV.
I don't know what you're trying to demonstrate here? The Young Bucks have had more straight up tag matches than FTR? Okay. You mean the champions of a division get more TV time than challengers not even involved in the title scene? Oh wow that's like crazy man. Thanks for the stats?
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1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:
Is the recent absence of FTR from in ring action due to either Cash or Dax being injured? Or was it simply a booking decision to restrict them to Group vignettes and 'town halls'? I see no reason why they shouldn't be on television wrestling interesting match-ups, or on Dark, schooling the younger teams (not unsigned indie guys), every week.
I do think it's an intentional choice. All of the guys involved in the faction war have been confined to that story and not having separate matches in between.
As to answer what's in bold, over exposure. One of my least favorite parts of WWE having so god damn much time to fill. Everyone becomes just another guy because they wrestle every single week. Why do FTR need to burn through every good potential match? Keep people wanting more. I also think that is an intentional choice. You can't have an aura of acts being special if you see them wrestle 50+ times a year on TV. That's why no one but Roman & Brock come off special in WWE anymore.-
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11 hours ago, Sex Machine Gun said:
I'd love some simp here to explain to me why the Inner Circle went over and why their feud with The Pinnacle (who never appeared at all tonight in any way, shape, or form) should keep going. You're out there, I see what people write. Please rationalize this.
I'll take the bait.
Most stories have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Not just a beginning & middle.Act 1 - Heel group wins in dominant fashion (Blood & Guts)
Act 2 -Baby face team gets revenge (Stadium Stampede)
Act 3 -(we'll find out soon enough) (???)
It's fine to not like what you're seeing. It's also fine to express that. But at this point you come in AEW threads just to say this show was "a steaming pile". Intelligent & apt breakdown there professor.
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12 hours ago, Greggulator said:
I would say that Vince's primary goal is to make money and build up the value of his company. And I would say a lot more people agree with his idea of what's entertainment than wrestling message boards and diehard fans responses on Twitter would have you believe, with the evidence being how consistently profitable his company is.
WWE's programing (Raw specifically) is so homogenized I no longer consider it professional wrestling. It's SNL with a few matches. No one is denying WWE the brand and corporation have maximized profits and become a global juggernaut. What people are arguing is that it's a dog shit on screen product, if you enjoy professional wrestling. And for a long time there was nothing anyone of that opinion could do to get their fix. Grit your teeth and just be happy Roman is having good matches. Vent your frustrations online and just be thankful for Daniel Bryan. But now they have real viable competition from a family with 4x the wealth of the McMahons.
You can disagree with all of this if you like. But time will tell. When the tipping point comes, it comes fast. If wrestling fans don't like the wrestling show you're producing, then who is gonna watch it? Certainly not non-fans. Raw hour 3 got 1.1 million viewers this week. The lowest hour in the 40 year history of Monday night wrestling. They've set themselves up to be fail-proof... until they're not. If people keep checking out at the current rate, how much is USA going to give them from a program drawing in under a million viewers when Raw is up for a new deal in 2024? Success is a mirage. No one is full proof.-
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Maybe I'm not being concise with my point.
People are advocating for AEW to not sign a lot of these guys purely because of the narrative TNA tried that and it didn't work.
But if you are consistent with not signing talented people just because they were elsewhere you would have missed out on the Undertaker, Stone Cold, the nWo, Savage being awesome in WCW. Who here can say Tommy End or Andrade have no chance of catching lightning in a bottle. Maybe Daniel Bryan shows up in AEW and shit just clicks right and it's the catalyst to another boom period. Who knows. But the only thing for sure is saying don't sign people that came from WWE because TNA failed at it is a stupid reason to miss out on some big time entertaining talents.-
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1 minute ago, J.H. said:
The 3 guys you name... its not even remotely the same thing. Hell Even Bischoff has admitted to singing guys simply because they were ex-WWF. Austin and Taker were lightning in a bottle characters that ended up being right time right place and had nothing to do with them being ex-WCW. Trips was BARELY on WCW TV and was smart by going to WWF and saying "WCW is offering me this much, I'm worth more than that" and WWF agreed with him.
Hell Bischoff signed Lanny Poffo and never used him. He had him on payroll just to have him (ok probably as a favor to Randy Savage, but still)
James
So are you disputing the fact that WWE were able to come back and take over WCW because "Austin and Taker were lightning in a bottle characters"? What's your argument here. I literally said they would not have come back without the four performers listed. Are you saying WWE still would have? Or? Like you can't catch the Stone Cold lightning in a bottle if he's never on your roster.... so....
My whole point is just because a performer was somewhere else first, doesn't mean signing them is a bad idea. Wrestling has a long history of missing on prospects. Vince was wrong when he said Hogan was washed up and couldn't be a top draw anymore. Bischoff was wrong when he said Steve Austin was a middle of the road guy and no one would pay to see a guy in black tights and boots.
TNA not maximizing the formula doesn't make the formula bad. It makes TNA bad.-
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1 hour ago, L_W_P said:
As good as some of these names are, I don't want AEW snapping them all up. It just feels too much like TNA/Impact putting WWE castoffs above their home grown guys.
I hate this narrative. It's lazy. And it's inaccurate.
Without "WCW cast offs" Jean Paul, Stunning Steve, Cactus Jack, & Mean Mark WWE never over takes the Monday Night Wars. Without "territory cast offs" the 80s WWF expansion never takes off. Without "WWF cast offs" Hogan, Savage, Hall & Nash WCW never becomes the number one wrestling promotion.
Just because TNA sucks and could never make the formula work, doesn't make the formula a mistake.-
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For the doomsday crew that wanna cut a bunch of the AEW roster to make room... I don't think AEW is going to do releases. The only people they have released were problem issues stemming from speaking out. (And letting Kylie Rae go when she had issues and wanted out). On the flip side, Shanna & Awesome Kong's contracts just expired. Maybe AEW is going to be a the first wrestling company to, GASP, honor their end of a contract.
It's kind of bullshit from a performer stand point you enter into an agreement you are stuck in for the duration of the deal, but the company can terminate whenever. maybe, just maybe, AEW is going to let people's contracts expire instead of cutting them early. Or maybe that is just wishful thinking on my end.Point being, maybe chill on the lets fire all these innocent athletes just doing their job because I personally don't like them / see the value in them. Even if your opinion is 100% valid and the truth, can't you just let them quietly collect their agreed to contracts instead of firing them?
Just some food for thought.-
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1 minute ago, Raziel said:
No, because at some point, Shad is going to tell Tony to stop handing out money and we *really* don't want AEW turning into 98 WCW with 23333 people under contract doing nothing 50% of the time.
Speak for yourself. I loved seeing random ass Marty Janetty vs Rick Martel and John Nord vs Bobby Eaton weirdness show up on Nitro.
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Seeing that Braun was a paid athlete for a bodybuilding company. Now that doesn't stand out as anything weird for a pro wrestler right? Well they were saying he was making like $30,000(!) a month. With WWE cracking down on outside income... a dude pulling in $360,000 a year from outside income (and doing workout vids for the same company paying Brian Cage & Kenny Omega) he is probably getting cut if he doesn't pull out of that deal.
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14 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:
A few people talked about The Best Friends being the team to finally unseat the Bucks. I wouldn't really be on board with them winning the belts in an extended program, but they'd be perfect to get a fluke win on Dark or Elevation then drop them back on Dynamite the next week.
No. What? Why?
Why are you booking a world tag title change on the enhancement show on You Tube??? No. That's a way to ensure the majority of the fans following your product DON'T see a big moment / important title change. Dark and Elevation are not the modern day WCW Saturday Night. They are the modern day Jacked & Metal. You don't book title matches for free on You Tube when Turner is paying you $40+ million a year.-
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7 minutes ago, J.T. said:
I don't think you can really use Hogan as an example of a title reign that lasted too long because it's colored by 20/20 hindsight.
You're 100% right. I should have used Flair as my example. His reigns were also inarguable epics. And he is better comparison for heel Kenny.
I know it's 2021. But you're not supposed to like heels. @just drewis an avid Kenny Omega hater. GOOD. He's the bad guy. That's how he's supposed to make you feel. At some point we all fell so deep in the wrestling bubble we forget we're even in the bubble. You shouldn't get mad at the promotion when the champ is a heel you don't like. Be mad at the heel. Anticipate him getting his ass kicked. Pull for your guy beating him. That's how wrestling is supposed to work.
I would have a different view if Kenny were supposed to be a face. But he's not. He's a heel. A scumbag cheating heel. Same with The Bucks. Trust in the storytelling. If AEW doesn't give us a satisfying babyface win when it's time, be mad at that. I'll be pissed off with you. Until then, enjoy the ride.-
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You both make good points. But even if the champions are unlikable, I disagree with short reigns. Those are concerns that need to be addressed before the title reign, not during them. I didn't like Hogan at all. But it's inarguable that his reigns were epic. And that's what I'm going for with my thought process. Even if a segment of the fan base is turned off by the champion, doing quick changes does a disservice to the long term purpose of titles being important.
If Omega had dropped the title to OC and won it back on Friday, who does that help? Omega is still the champ after Friday so the people turned off by him are still mad. OC gets to say "I was champ" but that means nothing because he had zero moments in his reign. Fans of OC are also annoyed because their guy got chumped out. The belt also loses value because of the flip flops.
Wanting to see the champs you don't like get beat is what the whole business used to be based on. If you don't like The Bucks, well that's great. You now get to experience what people in the 80s that hated Flair experienced. That's a blessing, not a curse.-
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36 minutes ago, Craig H said:
Should these World Title reigns be shorter?
100% absolutely not. That's one thing I scratch my head about reading the AEW threads here. Everyone wants there to be all these title changes and all these reigns for their favorites. No. Keep the long reigns. Keep the titles important. There's only 3 men out of like 100 that can say they made it to the top of the AEW mountain. While not an apples to apples comparison, almost everyone in the upper card of WWE has made it to the top of the mountain. Ziggler is a former world champ. Jinder is a former world champ. Kofi. Miz. AJ. Strowman. Orton. Rollins. McIntyre. Finn. Owens. I'm sure a bunch more. So why is being world champion a big deal in WWE? Most of the guys there get at least 1 run.
Liken that to the 80s. Backlund, Sheik, Hogan, Andre (kinda), & Savage. That's it. Even NWA in the 80s only had Race, Tommy Rich, Dusty, Flair, Von Erich, Garvin, & Steamboat. WWE had 4/5 world champions in 10 years, NWA had 8. For fuck's sake the Universal title has only existed 4.75 years and has had 8 champions and 14 different reigns already. If you want to make stars you need to keep being a champion exclusive. Because then winning the title instantly means you're a star.
I mean that's how I view it at least. If you want to keep importance on the titles you can't change them as often as the other guy does. Like people are saying they aren't sure who should beat the Bucks now. Well good. Because they should keep the tag title for at least another year. Then whoever beats them is instantly made.-
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-Deeb vs Riho is up there for best pre show match ever. The crowd was loud and the work was excellent. And they didn't go crazy trying to out shine the main card. A perfect pre show match to get the party started. Deeb may be the best all around worker in the company right now. Love the vicious edge. Giving me Bret Hart in 1997 vibes for ring work.
-Hangman vs Cage was fucking dope. Crowd was on fire. The match was all action. Your boy hangman took a superplex to the ramp followed by a top rope F5 and still kicked. Loved the move theft, I'm a sucker for that. Right man won. Wish they let the camera linger on the post match Hangman celebration. That's one big negative of the current product. they pack in SOOO much they don't have time to let things like this or SCU post match farewell get the shine.
-Wild Thing with a full house singing was god damn electric. This match fucking rocked too. A clash of styles that meshed well. Bucks as heels are 30000x better than faces. I know there are some that still don't like them but they are in the discussion for best tag team in all of wrestling along with The Usos & FTR. I'm fucking begging for them to at least acknowledge on commentary that Rick Knox is their boy and that's why he's so lax with the rules. It doesn't solve the problem, but it gives it a plausible explanation.-Show fell off a cliff here. The casino royale format sucks. Lio is talented. But as an "advertised" surprise entrant it was not a good choice. If they're gonna keep doing these please for the love of god stop advertising everyone in it. Announce like 10 people. That way there's room for surprises without the pressure. 3 minor surprises is better than one big let down.
-Cody vs Ogogo was not good. The angle for it was not good. And Cody using the American Dream name on THIS of all things was a wasted opportunity. As someone who has taken a proper Cop Killer wish Cody would either do it correctly or not at all. This safe one looks like shit so what's the point in doing it at all then?
-Miro vs Archer was a disappointment for me. The match was pretty decent but the crowd was so bored from the last two that they didn't get much. Bad show layout. They also lost the crowd completely when there was the animal abuse spot and never got them back.
-Women's match was... clunky. Britt was way over and her winning got the show back on track. Great moment where she hugged Tony. I want more of that. Some nuance. A face announcer being a heel wrestler's friend without it being some heel turn for Tony.-Sting pulling out a Code Red. Doing a dive off poker chips after taking a suplex on the ramp. Page going Bam Bam on Darby Dudley. That slick ass Scorpio Cutter catch into the Death Drop finisher. This match wayyyyy over delivered. Loved it.
-Triple Threat was great. They got me to bite on a few of the false finishes. That's all you can ask for. These three all gel really well and the finish was really well booked. Heel sociopath cheats and murders tweener sociopath. Everyones fav babyface hits the big finish for a believable fall, but gets overzealous and reversed. Chef's kiss.
-Stadium Stampede was solid. Feel bad for the ring crew that had to set up a whole ass wrestling ring on a football field for 2 minutes of wrestling in it lol. But this was laid out well. All the fight scenes came off well. Good funny cameos without being full on comedy. Blended the taped and live aspects well. The right guy got the big shine. Send the crowd home happy.
Overall : Loved it. Wish they would have cut a match or two to let the moments breathe. But you can't deny almost everything delivered. No more casino royales please. Also wish Cody would get back to actual storytelling like the gritty Dustin feud instead of the weird political & celebrity kinda stuff he's been doing. As a paying customer I am super satisfied with this show. Almost perfect really, can't ask for more than that.
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11 minutes ago, twiztor said:
hated Isiah Kassidy not being a participant but spending half the match in the ring.
He was an entrant. He and Matt Hardy were in the same suit, so they came out together. They put the list of all five in the suit up at the end of each suit. Hardy & Kassidy were in one group, Marq Quen was in another. All 3 were in the match.
I am not a fan of the casino battle royal structure. It's just too clunky and cluttered. In an effort to be different, it just ends up being worse. Like why do we need a 10 second zoom in on what the card is? Does it matter if it's spade or club or whatever? We don't know who are in the groups ahead of time, totally pointless thing to focus on.-
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11 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:
He has embarrassing camera presence. I honestly feel bad for him.
I'm usually a very pro-AEW homer. But even I have to agree here. Every time they post his Impact videos I cringe. The time he came out on Elevation I cringed. And I cringed for this promo. Understand why he did this one, and it seemly worked for it's intended purpose. But Tony Kahn on screen just yells inauthentic. I've always viewed him as likeable, even a bit nerdy. He would always come off pretty mild mannered and well meaning at the after event media scrums and such. But his on screen "character" just screams lack of confidence, trying to be what he thinks a tough guy is.
Again I get why they did it. And it worked. But he is not fit to be an on screen character. At this point at least. I mean Vince McMahon wouldn't have been a great character on his third year in the business either. But he didn't try to be an actual character until two decades in. -
21 minutes ago, Mister TV said:
The TNT belt looks good but looked better with the red strap.
Hard disagree. I'm so over colored straps. There has never been a title with a colored strap that looked better than the default black strap. The TNT Title looked so minor league until it was put on a black strap. Looks great now.
I very much disliked the original AEW Women's Title design. Mostly because of the minuscule size. But the redesign making it bigger has made a world of difference to me. It looks 1,000x better now.-
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4 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:
'Hot Boy Summer'! Right on! Loving this Wingmen Unit. Ceasar Baloney did a real nice job in that bout. Was there any mention as to why it was changed from a tag match with Sting(!!!)?
Yeah that was never advertised as a tag match. Why would they give away Sting's first live match in 6 years in a throw away squash match with some jobbers two days before the PPV? May just have gotten mistaken with Sting being in the match graphic, but it was definitely never a tag match.
Pretty sure Hangman got busted open by bonking heads with Janela on one of his rolling forearms leading to the finish. It bleed like crazy tho, really added something to his promo when he's yelling and blood is spitting off his face lol.
I get the weigh in, in concept. But in execution... yikes. Real boxer. Trying to blur the lines. Needing a segment where they could face off but not go crazy yadda yadda, but it just did not work. I also think Show's line was that he didn't have time to get a digital scale, not that he couldn't afford one.
That Miro squash was perfect. Just the right amount of him looking like murderer and Martin getting a couple slick shots in to still come away from the match with a net positive.
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7 minutes ago, AxB said:
There's every chance that Jake was lead to believe that he would have been getting the title, and that Warrior vetoed it. Vince has a habit of working his workers and pitting them against each other.
Even still the only plausible case I can come up with, still paints Jake as a bullshitter telling stories to get a payday.
It's plausible that sometime in 1990 Jake was told he was penciled in for a title feud with Warrior in the summer of 1991. I could see a case where Wrestlemania was originally envisioned as Hogan vs Slaughter in a non-title fight to save 'Merica and Warrior vs Savage in a Title vs Career match. Then once Warrior beat Savage he would move on to a summer of 1991 title feud with Jake that theoretically could have culminated in a title win.
*BUT* Warrior loses the belt at Rumble 1991. So Jake's story of not finding out his feud had been scrapped / seeing Vince fire Warrior / telling Jake he has bad luck is just plain bullshit. He knew his summer of 1991 title feud with Warrior was off in January. Like I get it there could be lots of Vance manipulation, plus all the drugs Jake may have been doing there. But there's honest mistakes, and there's telling tales to get a Vice payday / seem more important to the story than he really was. -
Jake's timeline makes zero fucking sense, calling bullshit on that.
Warrior drops the belt to Slaughter in January 1991. Hogan wins the title in April of 1991. Warrior is fired in August of 1991 (and not the champion). How is Jake out a title run here? Now the guy that took it from Hogan was Undertaker in November of 1991. Is it plausible Jake could have been in that spot? Yes. But it's really hard to figure out how Jake would need permission to win the title by asking Warrior, when he would have beaten Hogan. Is it plausible he beats Hogan and goes into a title feud with Warrior right after? Possibly. But just not seeing the math here. Jake is gone in April of 1992 anyways. So yeah man full on bullshit on that story.-
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20 hours ago, alstein said:
I was saying run a show on the road in a small building with their crew, use local indy guys as the jobbers, then have competitive matches with the indy guys on the indy show.
You still have the same issues. Who is going to pay to see a bunch Austin Gunn squash matches? This isn't even a knock on any specific wrestler, or AEW. Even red hot WWE in 2000 would have a hard time selling tickets to stand alone tapings of Jacked & Metal with Papi Chulo squash matches. Only the hardest of the hardcore fans would care to pay to see live events that have no meaning. No stories. No titles. Just enhancement matches. Not to mention you're spending the money to fly all these guys to a new city, renting another building, paying all your crew to setup and film... all for something that you can just tape before or after the live TV shows. It's redundant and will lose money.
Is it worth $50,000+ in added plane tickets, $20,000 in per hour pay for the ring crew / production staff, & whatever it costs to rent whatever buildings you have in mind? No. They won't make back the $75,000+ they invest into the cost of the taping. I get that a lot of fans jut think like fans and talk about ideas they would personally like to see. But sometimes you gotta consider the business factors of if it makes sense. And this just doesn't make sense.-
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29 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:
Listening to TK on AEW's pod he said a few times hyping up the show that there's going to be surprises he's looking forward to. I am not going to speculate but I sense at least one of the ideas that people are hoping for here are going to happen.
I think it's a safe bet that Nick Gage is in the Casino Royale. But I hope the twitter-verse doesn't take Tony's hype and run with it like they did at the last PPV. Punk, Lesnar, Cena, & D-Bry are not showing up. Never say never. But just keep those expectations in check lol.
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AEW - JUN 2021
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
Posted
-Woof. I was on board with a lot of what you were saying until you starting going off the deep end. Don't mistake me for someone out here saying AEW is perfect and if you don't like it you're wrong. That ain't me. I'm out here saying I like what AEW is doing. I'm very upfront about that. But I'm not trying to get YOU to feel exactly the same as I do. And that's why @Gordberg is starting to go a little mad having to refute @Goodear. He's not just telling us that he doesn't enjoy AEW. He's actively trying to say we're fucking stupid for liking it.
His argument on FTR matches is hey let's not count 75% of the matches they've had, for the purposes of making the end result he wants to show. Why do six man tags not count as matches? Why do Wargames matches not count as matches? The end result still shows what he was trying to say without having to disregard reality (Young Bucks have had more matches than FTR in the last 3 months period, regardless of configurations). So my Britt Baker take was just as dumb as his to demonstrate that point. If you exclude everything that doesn't support your point, well guess what... the results are gonna support your point.
-As for what I bolded of your post, didn't know you were the FTR whisperer lol. As just someone on the outside looking in I'd say they are major Horsemen fans. I would also say specifically major Arn & Tully fans. I think they fucking love they're in a Horsemen-like group. I think they fucking love that they are doing Wargames matches and dressing up like Bunkhouse Stampede dudes working violent bloody brawls and being prominently featured as important characters in an important story. I think you're projecting what YOU want them to be doing. But without directly asking them, who knows. Yes they excel at traditional tag team wrestling. But boxing them in that that's all they are allowed to do, or that's all they enjoy / only reason they left WWE is absurd.
-Lastly, bringing up WWE isn't gaslighting. It's the easiest and most direct comparison. I don't like A. I prefer B. Even when B makes missteps or doesn't quite hit the mark, I still prefer it to A. There's ZERO gaslighting in those statements. Because I'm just laying out my opinion. I'm not trying to get you to disbelieve your own eyes and change your reality. That's crazy. I'm literally just saying I like B better than A. So you may want to take a few steps back. In trying to prove that a cult exists... you're really starting to sound like you're in a cult on the opposite end of that spectrum my dude lol.
And in closing... I actually think this past week's Dynamite was my least favorite Dynamite of all time. So I'm certainly not out here trying to gaslight anyone into anything.