NoFistsJustFlips
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Posts posted by NoFistsJustFlips
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Right. They've been just having tv sides open at first. Nothing worse than having everything open in 20k seater then trying to get people to move from the seats they bought to clump together for camera side. Once they get within 500 or a 1000 of the section being sold out they open uo more aections.
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16 hours ago, TheVileOne said:
The problem is they gave away a huge first-time matchup on TV. This is not something they will have an opportunity to do a lot.
Beyond this point, and this is something I haven't seen mentioned, the lack of promotional time is hurting them. Why did that big of a match for that big od a Dynamite get announced one week out. Why did we just get the finalized Blood & Guts members one week before the show?
They're leaving money on the table by not announcing things further out. You'd get higher ratings if more people had it in their head gotta tune in on this date. They'd probably sell more tickets with at least a few things announced further out. Blood & Guts has about 3500 tickets out as of now. The first time they did it they had almost 10k in the building.
It's nit the end of the world or the biggest issue they have. But it's just an odd quark I've noticed with how they book. Even PPVs don't get many things finalized early. They wait til the last minute. And I think it's legiti.ately hurting them.
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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:
Odd that you have active workers as “coaches.” Does that mean they are booking their own stuff?
I think some of that is them trying their hand at ot to gain experience for later. There's no way OC is producing Dynamite matches. He probably helps with ROH or has a secondary coaching job ala Renee. Like she's not laying out matches. She's helping produce promos.
Jon Cruz / Serpentico is most certainly the Dark / ROH agent. There's no way he's producing main roster stuff. I think that's a full list of all coaches for all aspects. I wouldn't take that to mean all of them are equals doing an equal amount of match producing for Dynamite.
As for the MJF vs Ospreay match I loved it. It's in my top 5 matches all time in AEW. I understand the criticisms. The knee selling went away. The psychology of the crowd brawl is a little out there. (My take on it was a meta extra layer thing. MJF is a scumbag that tries to stall and find an opening with any dirty cheating he can. He wasn't running to save a title. He was scrambling to find an opening to take over. And that backfired because Ospreay saw it coming and turned it around on him). But that's one of those notes that's not gonna land with the whole audience.
To me that match was a perfect blend of the modern style and throw back old school Broadway. There's so much storytelling meat on the bone left to go back to when it's time too. It's amazing to me their tanks had enough in it for that pinball sequence they did at the 55min mark. That's so hard to do as clean as they did it when fresh. Let alone 55mins in. Like how many times have we seen the bridge up transition into the backslide fail? It's crazy they hit that so clean.
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To add some details to what I said above I'd also make the C2 winner prize where you can cash it in for any title at anytime. That way you're not forced to try and make a new main eventer every year. Let a midcarder win the C2 in an upset and use it to challenge for the international title. Let the women have a C2 also.
I'd also make the prize doe winning the Owen just a trophy. There's no need for the belts. They're a nice nod to Stampede and all that. But a trophy is fine for winning. The less belts there are, the more important all the ones that exist are.
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The point in which the brand started getting diluted was incorporating ROH into AEW. If you want to reinvigerate and strengthen the AEW brand you have to de-ephasize the secondary brand. You dont have to completely close it (I probably would). But you do have to scrap any overlap.
Separate rosters. Separate taping. Titles kept Separate. Focus on AEW. Make AEW as good as you possibly can. ROH can exist but for in a separate universe with a tiny budget. You kind of have to take the WWE approach and turn it into a developmental brand just so it can have an identity.
The title situation is crazy. Keep the ROH belts in ROH. It should be pared down to a men's world and a women's world, a men's pure title & a women's pure title, men's tags and women's tags. And that's it. You don't need tv titles for a brand that doesn't even have tv.
As for AEW, the titles desperately need pared down. The International title has become the unquestionable number 2 title. I think you need to restructure. Men's world and women's world. Men's international & women's international. Men's tags and women's tags. Scrap TBS / TNT titles (especially if they end up on another network). Scrap the continental title and make that your cash in gimmick. Do a briefcase or a chip or some shit. Whoever wins the C2 can cash it in whenever. You just don't need a belt for that. Scrap the trios & ftw titles.
Basically for shit to be important it has to have focus. There's literally too many things they try to put focus on and it makes nothing have focus. Not every fued needs a belt. You can do fun trios matches without needing a title for it.
Make the important shit **feel** important.
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I thought for sure Mercedes open challenge would be answered by Jamie Hayter. What a reaction that would get. Fits the story with her having Britt's back. And the match would be a banger. But instead it's the quarterly Nyla match that she has no chance to win.
Happy to be getting the double main event matches. They should both be fucking dope. Wonder if Ricochet debuts here in some fashion.
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It's so odd to me the routing ended up with show 250 being in a small market like Little Rock Arkansas. The max capacity they're set for according to Wrestle Tix is only like 2500. For this stacked of a card? Kind of an indictment of the live events department if you ask me.
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The way Meltzer reported it, Woo has a similar deal to Slim Jim's WCW deal with Savage. They paid his entire salary in exchange for promoting the energy drink. But in the report it said the energy drink is not doing well and can't get into any stores outside of the local market they make it in. So if that reporting is correct I'd bet they just ran out of funding to keep paying for the sponsorship. The Flair component is kind of irrelevant if they're not making enough to pay for their part of the sponsorship. I'm guessing Flair's salary is a hefty fee. $500k a year maybe? That's a lot for a non-wrestler that really doesn't have a spot with no Sting and no Andrade.
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Think it's a little crazy everyone thinks MCMGs will go to NXT. While they would certainly help the workers in NXT get better, if you're paying them enough for them to choose you over AEW I gotta think that's a main roster acquisition. And MCMG vs DIY in Cleveland for Summer Slam would be the perfect debut match for them. I almost think that's why DIY got the belts. To give Gargano something he can really sink his teeth into for Cleveland. I mean that might be wishful thinking. But I think them going straight to the main roster is the move here.
You stick them in NXT and overlap it with the TNA stuff, then from a performer standpoint it's going to be a bit annoying. You finally get that big deal with the biggest company but you're still kinda just doing the same thing working TNA guys or being loaned for TNA shows. That's a morale killer for a lot of guys. -
Well they're not going to give everyone a bye week at the same time in the middle of the season with nothing to put on TV for that week. So doing the same league wide bye week is pretty much dependent on slotting the all star festivities in that week. The idea kinda falls apart without it.
The alternative is them still giving out two bye weeks but randomizing the second byes like the first byes. NFLPA isn't going to agree to that extra game without an extra bye week. So that's gonna be a necessary component. Which is going to make scheduling that much more difficult to juggle / more room to complain about teams getting more rest than others / etc. Example: Team A has both byes in the first 13 weeks, Team B gets 2 byes in the last 8 weeks and such.
I thought this was a pretty solid way to shift everything around and tweak things. Especially since the day after The Super Bowl would always be a national holiday. -
I saw a suggestion being credited to Joe Burrow about the inevitable 18 game season that's pretty genius. If you add in that extra game you're gonna have to give everyone a second bye week. Why not put the whole league on a bye at the same time around week 10 or 11 and do the Pro Bowl games during that week.
Since it's all skill drills and no actual game now, injury isn't as much of a concern. Everyone that's healthy can participate. It shifts the league year in a way where The Super Bowl would always be the Sunday before president's day. Meaning almost everyone gets the day off the Monday after the super bowl.
Everyone getting a break in the middle of the season makes sense. More people would probably tune into the Pro Bowl with all the big stars there. Seems like all upside with this plan. 18 games, 20 week season. Mid season all star festivities. Day off after The Super Bowl. Win, win, win.
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17 hours ago, EVA said:
That main event finish…woof. Have to assume they’re either clearing the runway for Trick to get called up to the main roster later this year or they realized he’s not even close to being top guy level and backed off the push. Time will tell which.
Either way, that finish was not a strong vote of confidence for Page, who basically slipped on a banana peel and won. Hard to think of a weaker way to start a title reign. You have to assume he’s a short-term transitional champ.
You and I generally agree like 95% of the time, but this is one of those rare times we differ. Not every champ has to be strong. Not every champ has to be booked the same way. Things get a little samey with everyone always having to look so strong.
It's perfect for Page's character to luck into a title run and talk shit on how great he is ignoring how it happened. Also keeps Trick strong for him to have the title taken away due to no fault of his own. It was his finish that knocked both dudes out. Just a stroke of bad luck, not him being bested.
I like the way it was done. And I think character wise it helps both Page & Trick out.
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Yeah and it would have thrown the whole cash in dynamic off. Can't be like oh Drew is cashing in and making it a triple threat if the match is over. That makes Drew the dumbest motherfucker of all time to add an extra dude to his cash in if the match is already over. One of those cases where it was handled the best it could be. Circumstances made that impossible to call it like a shoot.
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The downtime and amount of ads will hit you a little less hard when you accept these aren't ppvs. They are tv shows. Peacock has increased the amount of ads they run for the non-ad free tier. Which means WWE can't run actual content during these ad breaks. All they can do is run video packages and hype videos to try and cover for it. It's out of their hands.
The ad breaks aren't going away. Maybe they can be better managed. Or do exclusive live promos that the ad people miss? But Im not sure they'd want any segment of the fanbase to miss a chunk of the content for the shows. Maybe you also live stream the ad break promos on social? But I would think that would annoy Peacock.
We'll just have to suffer through until the Peacock deal expires (at the end of next year I believe?) and Netflix buy up those rights too.
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WWE mingling with TNA & Bloodsport makes more sense when you view it from the TKO perspective. They just paid out MLW 20 million in a settlement they didn't want to go to trial. They just settle a UFC anti-trust lawsuit. They don't want scrutiny on that independent contractor status / antitrust lawsuits. This is their way of mitigating all that.
Having something to point to and say hey we aren't trying to monopolize. There's a clear #2 and we're working with the #3s & #4s to help them out. Some of it can be a shift in philosophy because Triple H & Shawn don't see the business in those same black and white 'I need it all' terms that Vince did. But TKO wanting to keep their nose clean is the driving force I'd say.
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20 minutes ago, Stefanie Sparkleface said:
I was definitely one of those fans. I didn't care about Goldberg at all after he beat Hogan. Oh good, the World Title's tied up in squashing Scott Putski in two minutes. Even his PPV title defenses were obligatory shots, not actual heated feuds or anything; he had to face DDP because DDP won War Games, and he had to face Nash because Nash won World War 3. The formula worked prior to winning the title but after that, they needed to mix it up and they didn't.
Yeah now this is a fair take that I can agree with. They had NO PLAN for once he won the title and it showed. That's on the booking. And boy did it fail him. Why was the world champ randomly in a battle royal (Road Wild)? That shouldn't detract from the point at hand tho. Because what he was saying that sparked me to reply was that anyone with that sustained push would have ended up just as over and in the same spot. And I disagree. It's the push mixed with the performer. It's like saying you could have slotted anyone into the Hulkamania thing like Kerry Von Erich. That's not true either. There's unique intangibles to Hogan as to why that went as high as it did. Just as I propose with Goldberg. There were parts of who he was that was the secret sauce in him being successful, not the unbeaten streak alone or just the strong push. Unique intangibles.
I misunderstood the Oldberg reference. So I'm in the wrong on that one. That isn't the fans shitting on Goldberg that's the fans shitting on his booking from my perspective. But certainly open to interpretation. -
14 matches is a lot. Probably too many. But in the case of this show where it's basically get as much of the AEW roster on AND the NJPW roster AND the CMLL roster, AND Stardom roster... I can kind of forgive it. You have like triple the amount of performers available to you, so you are going to want to use as many as you can.
I'm looking forward to a bunch of the matches. Even tho we know MJF is up, his match will be an interesting one to see how it plays out. Main, both Women's title matches, all the zero hour matches look fun. Should be a killer show. I hope the crowd is able to stay hot all the way through. I think Swerve & Ospreay is going to exceed expectations.-
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It blows my mind The NFL lost the Sunday Ticket lawsuit. Obviously I'm okay with a lower price for SDT. I'm also okay if subscribers get a little payout. (I've had it for all the years the case covered so I will hopefully get a little something something if the verdict sticks). But I'm a little worried this means they are going to just scrap SDT. The revenue they make from it is a drop in the bucket compared to rights fees, especially if they have to drop the price going forward. They may just decided to not risk getting less money on the rights deals and pull the plug altogether.
If the networks get less viewers because more people can afford SDT on YTTV, then obviously the amount they're willing to pay for the rights is going to go down. I know they still air the same broadcasts, but when they go to ad breaks YTTV inserts their own ads (as did DTV) for the most part, and the ads being paid to the networks aren't reaching all the viewers. I can envision a slippery slope where this outcome is a bad result for the consumer. Because no matter how many lawsuits they lose The NFL is gonna keep on NFL-ing. -
9 hours ago, BloodyChamp said:
Oldberg wasn’t a reference to his age and you know that. Talk about lacking objectivity in a reflection of what actually was. It was a reference to the same old squash every week vs guys that the sign fans had never heard of, and guys who we’d only heard of because we knew the names of the jobbers from other shows and in some cases other lifetimes. Goldberg vs Len Denton next whoop! Most wrestlers get a reaction when they show back up unexpected. That’s really not a standard and if it is it’s one that guys like Marty Jannetty and Tatanka met. All that does is show another example of how others could get Goldberg’s same results with way less opportunity cost.
Spoiler
Oldberg wasn't in reference to age? What in the world are you talking about then? Do you not remember correctly the audience reactions Goldberg mowing through people would get? Listen if you don't like Goldberg that's fine. I only make posts like this when I think a take is so far off the mark. I've been on the wrong side of takes before. I had a very strong opinion on Greg Valentine based on my thoughts of him as a kid. It was a bias and not objective. Matt D said as much and supplied a match for me to watch and try to be objective about. Going back and watching it with adult eyes and the knowledge I have now and not my kid knowledge I realized he was right and I was way off. Doesn't mean if I'm going to pick a match to watch it's going to be a Valentine one. Just means I accepted I had a bias and I was wrong, and it opened my mind to there being possibilities of that happening in other instances too.
In the interest of trying to do for you what Matt D did for me I'm gonna supply you a link to watch a random Goldberg WCW match from before they put the title on him. Please take a look objectively and see if you still don't see any aura or intangibles that Goldberg had / actually watch how the audience is reacting. If your opinion doesn't change, that's okay. But I really do think if you go in with an open mind you're going to see what I'm talking about.
Just a random Scott Norton Nitro match from April of 1998. It's 3 months before they put the title on him. It's sloppy and nothing special in ring wise but the crowd is engaged the whole time. Just look at how they react to everything. Look when he hits The Spear. Find me one match where any Wrath / Adam Bomb move gets that kind of reaction. Notice the whole crowd standing and popping for The Jackhammer. Find me one example of any of the other guys you say got the same push getting that same reaction. This one even happens to have a Goldberg Kicks Ass sign in the front row. Watch this and tell me the audience thought it was getting old and not into it:If it doesn't change your mind that's fine. But this is the type of thing Matt D did for me so trying to pass it on in good faith.
ETA: Just for reference they had been doing the squashes here for seven months at this point. And it sure looks like not a single soul in that building is sick of it or finding it old.-
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Hogan, Piper, & Flair were all headliners at the same time and the new guy that had been on tv for only 2 years and was 15 years younger than them had old insults hurled at him? I call BS on that. For whatever reason you have a tainted hindsight view.
They were piping the chants in basically the whole time. That isn't a smoking gun that he lost steam. Even during the shit ass Russo booking Goldberg remained one of the most over parts of what they had left.
When he debuted in WWE that man was over. That alone should discredit a lot of what you're saying. If Oldberg signs and crowd was sick of him and all that why was the crowd so excited when he showed up and speared The Rock? Goldberg is a performer full of faults. But aura, charisma, presence, connection with the audience, being over... none of those were ever lacking.
His nearest analog is Warrior. And they both had 3 runs. Warrior was a statr in his first. An after thought in his second (WWE) and a complete non factor in his third (WCW). Goldberg was over & valuable in all 3 of his runs (WCW, WWE 00s, WWE 10s).
I think you're really lacking objectivity in your reflection on who & what he actually was.
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22 hours ago, username said:
People say that and they are true to a degree, but there have been many people to get that kind of push and most didn't get as over as he did. I'm not gonna sit here and argue that he's a secret super worker because he ain't, but he brought some things like intensity and presence to the table that contributed to his success to a degree. It's basically a lesser version of the Sid deal: so many people say Sid was terrible and just steroids yet he succeeded in a way all those other roid heads did not, he had a magnetism too many people discard. He's also much better than Goldberg.
Yeah agree with you 100%. The anti-Goldberg takes are wild. If sticking with it would work for anyone why did it never work for Ryback? Or even Braun? Or any of the countless others that got the same dominant push as Goldberg for just as long but never broke through as a tippy top star? Goldberg's run was longer than Ultimate Warrior's run and he drew a lot more money. I'm not saying he's some super worker to be respected. But I am saying he had some really unique physical charisma that's being ignored.
He had this intriguing intensity and authenticity. They didn't plan to make Goldberg their world champion. They didn't plan for anything other than we're just gonna have this guy win a bunch and see what happens. And he got 100x more over than any other WCW baby (outside of Sting and DDP). Hell they even brought Warrior in who people compare Goldberg to a lot and Warrior was a nobody on the same show. That didn't happen with Sid being pushed. That didn't happen with Wrath being pushed. That didn't happen with that 1999 Bam Bam run. They used that same booking for a bunch of guys. They just didn't have the intangibles Goldberg did.
He was green. He was sloppy. He was dangerous. But you absolutely can not deny he had charisma and the it factor. It was like merging a dangerous Shamrock MMA guy with a no nonsense action movie cyborg. And just like we talk about no one else but Mark Calloway could have gotten that legendary run out of The Undertaker character, no one but Goldberg was able to maximize that kind of push the way he did. You can say it was the streak. But he was still just as over after the streak. He was still over in first that WWE run. And he was over in his late years resurgence.
I hate having to admit all this because I love Bret Hart. And it's undeniable that Goldberg was reckless and needlessly ended Bret's career. But it's just as undeniable that you needed the man Goldberg was to make that push work.-
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Whole lotta hindsight on these AOL takes lol. In 1995-2000 there was no bigger company in America. Their exponential growth was crazy. They owned such a high percentage of the early dial up market share it was crazy. Now 2000 and the dot com bubble burst and the advent of broadband in the early 2000s made their downfall even faster than their rise. But in January of 2000 when the deal was announced they were a juggernaut and the projections going forward were more exponential growth.
We all know that didn't happen. But the 'what would Time Warner even get out of this merger' takes are really off the mark. A broadcasting company that merged with a media company that merged with a news corporation that then wanted to merge with an internet monster. It made perfect sense (at the time) to try and have an all in one media giant that pulled in revenue from every inch of the entertainment spectrum. And in a company that wasn't corporately inept, could maximize the synergy, that sounds like money in the bank.
Now the grander WCW part of the equation we all have a better grip on. In my opinion there was no timeline where WCW was going to survive. Too much brand damage had been done. WWE fell to second place for a bit during the war, but it was never to a degree that they were tarnished beyond repair. And that's why they were able to come back. WCW in 2000 was tarnished beyond repair. Had Fusient closed the deal I really don't see how weekly studio taping in Las Vegas (very much like what TNA ended up becoming) with the failed brand stench WCW had would have any chance of survival.
Even on a timeline where everything lined up perfectly. Bischoff had the best creative spark of his career. You get a healthy motivated Goldberg, a hot RVD off of ECW's collapse, Joey Styles as your voice, a renewed cruiserweight division with the Low Kis the Christopher Daniels the AJ Styles of the time. They didn't have the ammo to fight back to the top spot. And this is with the TNT & TBS time slots. Short of an Austin / Rock / Undertaker jumping ship and recreating the Hogan shift (which in it's self wasn't instant and was on the verge of failing without Hall & Nash / the nWo), no chance in hell.
So in a way it's irrelevant who killed WCW. It was death by 1,000 dumb paper cuts. Bad booking. Bad management. Short sighted decisions, bad corporate structure, brand value being tarnished beyond repair, fucked up finances, bad contracts, creative control, and about 100 other things. It's hard for me to find any path where everything lines up and they survive the ratings bleed. WWE was the hottest it had even been since the absolute heights of Hulkamania. They had a hot hand that they rode for a long long time before showing signs of slow down. There's no evidence that anything could have changed that short of a catastrophic defection again to spark interest.
I do miss the shit out of WCW. I just preferred their style of presentation to WWE's. At least up until 1999. When they switched from trying to be different to trying to be more WWE than WWE could, it was some ugly as fuck production visuals.-
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They're just set pics so willing to go in with an open mind. Movie magic can make the suit look totally different on screen. I agree the colors fit way better than the DCEU colors. But boy the quality & design of that suit is some sub-CW network levels of bad based on the pics. The Cavill design with these these colors would have been a pretty great looking suit I think. But this one is school play level quality by the looks of it.
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20 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:
Maybe it's just me, but I don't need this. I'm perfectly happy seeing all of the various wrestlers and styles and such. Yes, coherent storylines (and for that matter booking) is a plus, but it's not that much of an issue for me. The folks complaining about how MJF is being booked and such are making an issue out of one that isn't there in my opinion.
This is a bonkers take to me. I 100% believe you that you prefer that. And there's nothing wrong with that at all. We all like what we like. But you can't think your opinion is the majority one. Stories and promos and conflict is what drives wrestling. When you really love the art form you can be entertained and appreciate the art of a match for the sake of a match and find things to critique and enjoy like we all do here. But the general viewing audience for wrestling overwhelmingly isn't that. It's the group that wants spectacle and conflict and story and stakes.
Bringing back arguably your top homegrown star and the former champion off of a long break due to injury just to stick him in a nothing enhancement match at his first ppv back is counterproductive at best. Nothing that's going to tank the company or anything. But it's an odd booking choice that deserves questioning. I get that not everyone enjoys dissecting the business decisions of the wrestling business, but this is the finances & ratings etc thread. This is the specific place they like all that kind of talk to be kept to lol.-
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AEW TV - 7/17 - 7/23/2024 - Guess What... It's Gonna Be May!
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
Posted
Raise your hand if you're okay with this change. *raises hand*
Hey why am I the only one with my hand raised? lol