NoFistsJustFlips
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Posts posted by NoFistsJustFlips
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I totally disagree that AEW would be fine without The Elite. This isn't a Punk vs Elite take either, I highly enjoy all involved.
My thought process is AEW happened because a bunch of things lined up right. But the catalyst was All In. The backbone, the soul, the reality of what AEW would become was born out of that one moment. A moment Tony Khan wasn't involved in. It was Cody & The Bucks primarily. But also Kenny & Hangman. Those 5. So Cody is gone. If you lose Kenny & Hangman & The Bucks, that's it. You don't have that same backbone, that same soul of the movement that created this. What's left is still a very good promotion with very good workers. But what it essentially becomes is TK co-opting the movement without any of the main players left.
Sure if Punk comes back you have him. You have Mox. You have Danielson. You have Jericho. But the fire... the counter culture nature of needing this organic second home for wrestling is gone. WCW lost Lex & Flair & The Stieners at different points. But WCW was never without a king in the castle. SOMEONE out of Flair, Lex, The Stieners and Sting was always there. AEW without any of The Elite is very much the same thing to me. It's just an odd feeling that doesn't fit. And I think a lot of the fans that like AEW as a true alternative go back to a different alternative (likely New Japan).
It's just a weird house of cards that starts to fall when you lose the spark of what made this possible, in my opinion.-
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2 hours ago, Krone said:
I wonder if it's because you don't know who or what you're going to get. Us hardcores appreciate a ton of the talent, but maybe for someone less familiar with the show - if it's not a given you'll see Kenny, Danielson, Moxley, Jericho, etc. wrestle that week or even have a long winded promo or segment that kind of makes you think twice about buying a ticket. However that's their 5-6 match model coming into play. That's just me throwing thoughts at the wall.
I think you hit on some good points. The rigid formula they use for TV only allows for a certain amount of people making TV every week. It's hard for some casuals to invest in spending money when they only get to see big stars every two or three shows. Even taping Rampage & Dynamite together (and counting Dark & Elevation when they had it) how many performers were missing each week? I dislike how WWE makes everyone feel like a nobody because they're on 52 episodes of TV a year generally. But there has to be a happy medium between that and only seeing 8 Kenny Omega matches in a year or whatever.
Not only is Punk a draw, but it is virtually guaranteed he'd be on every week of Collision. And I think that would make for better sales than having to guess like the Wednesday night tapings. But without him, it's a crap shoot. Only 500 tickets out in Hamilton is disaster levels bad. But we'll see where things are after Wednesday. If it's United Center & Punk is back, things will pick up. If it's Daily's place and no Punk, I think TK is gonna have to try a different approach to get eyes on the show.-
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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:
Ooof, I completely forgot about Martha's involvement with the Owen Cup. Yeah Bret ain't showing.
I believe Bret is under a Legends deal now and can't appear even if he wanted to. Happened quite awhile ago too. Unless I'm having some sort of faulty memory here. But I'm pretty confident in this one.
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This is the definition of spiraling. Why is everyone jumping to such stark conclusions based on Punk's name being kept hush hush on all this stuff. Isn't that the AEW playbook for him? They booked a building and named a show without announcing him when he came in. When he got hurt and returned it was a surprise. I didn't expect his name to be on anything today. He was just going to show up on June 17th. This is all PR & cover up for his name being found on the initial press release before someone was like no wya guys his return is supposed to be a surprise.
Him posting videos being annoyed with the reporting of stuff doesn't make me feel like all of this has blown up. Just the contrary. He's being talked about more today than he has been in awhile. He's keeping himself relevant. He's drumming up interest in himself. Not exactly the same as drumming up interest for AEW, I can recognize that. But that's how draws become draws. They use their own drawing power to make themselves a bigger deal and rises the tide for the company (theoretically).
All I'm going to say is if this all happens to be true somehow, and Steel was supposed to come back but they decided against it... that's not on Punk. Dude has not wavered from that detail. And had AEW agreed to it, then reneged... that's on them for breaking their word. But again I think this is mostly something being made out of nothing.-
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Yellowjackets is really hitting it's stride for me. It's my favorite show on right now. They give just enough of the mystical stuff each episode to keep me engaged. The antler queen has appeared as two people in the current time line so far, and I'm betting we see it in all of them at one point or another. I never watched Lost so this might be scratching an itch for me that a lot of people have already had fulfilled.
Only two episodes left. Shit has hit the fan in Shauna's story. Can't wait to see what the next twists are.-
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9 hours ago, jaedmc said:
However, I will say that at least their special lighting doesn't take away from the match. They're not wrestling in Mountain Dew Black Lights and shit.
Hard disagree. I love House of Black but I couldn't get into it. I'm not sure how this is such a hard concept for wrestling companies to understand but mood lighting for a character always sucks. Original Kane red light. Sin Cara orange light. The Fiend super red light. House of black dimmed lights with spooky flickering on all the screens. It's all bad. Sometimes standing out is a bad thing. As in this automatically gives fans a thought of why does this look weird and takes them out of following the narrative. I hope this aspect quietly disappears.
Phenomenal show tho. Loved pretty much all of it. And I'm very glad Kenny didn't tear up his knee with that cage spot. That looked sooooo bad.-
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2 hours ago, Sparkleface said:
A metal clip that connects to a tensioned double hook that if tensioned properly should be up rigid, that connects to the ringpost.
It's not the clip that would've gashed him. It's going through the clip and hitting the hook which has no give, which would have jammed the clip into his forehead. You don't need to add a gig to that. Even if WWE doesn't use the usual double hook structure of a turnbuckle, you're still basically ramming your head into a foot-long piece of rebar which will then drive another piece of metal into your skull.
Which is more realistic? That a foot-long piece of metal had no give and drove what is tantamount to a carabiner into Brock's forehead, or that WWE welded a jagged piece of metal into the turnbuckle because Brock decided he wanted to juice? Apply Occam's razor. (Which is not a literal razor.)
Just watched the clip again to verify what I saw and I'm changing my thought. But I am 30000% sure he didn't connect with the eye hook. 30000% he didn't have enough force to get cut by the ring on the buckle or the eye hook. Remember he didn't charge the buckle. He was standing there and Cody dropkicks his knees out. Very minimal force at all. Pausing it directly after impact there's no wound. He brings his hand to his head to hold it and it's clear to me now the blade was in his glove. He pushes it into his forehead and instant cut.
I get that rigging the buckle ring sounds like a weird idea. But it's not as weird as you're making it out to be. Outside the box ideas happen all the time to get the desired result. -
10 hours ago, Sparkleface said:
On the contrary, I fully believe that a 280 pound man running head first full-speed at a hard metal object - polished and smooth or not - without energy dispensation to spread the point of impact, and not being able to slow down in enough time to prevent said impact, can create a cut far more than "they put a gig into the turnbuckle".
I realize folks are beyond cynical when it comes to WWE's protection of its workers' health, but let's seriously think about the implications of suggesting that, no matter who's idea the latter would have been, that someone would have come up with "let's put a gig in the turnbuckle" and people thought "great idea! No notes! Let's go through with it! That can't end poorly whatsoever!" instead of Brock just not pulling up in time and smacking his head.
Yeah I get how it sounds. But the turnbuckle ring in a WWE ring is essentially just a large metal clip similar to a really big key ring. It's not this solid hefty chunk of metal. I don't care how big your are there's no way you're getting a perfect slice in your head that bleeds exactly like a gig by just slamming a smooth key ring into your forehead. Even if you're Brock. I mean you'd get a swollen bruise and some blood. But I looked for it when specifically they showed the reply. It was a slice about a half inch long that was deep enough to instantly just start gushing blood. That's not an impact wound. It also bleed for a long time, and again an impact wound generally swells up and then closes pretty quick.
I'm no blood spatter expert so I could certainly be wrong lol. But I feel pretty confident some kind of rigging took place. Ultimately doesn't matter either way. It was a really well done visual and was super effective none the less. -
5 hours ago, EVA said:
It was hardway. The gash between his eyes is obvious the second his head hit the buckle, well before his hands go anywhere near his face. He hit his forehead, then jerked his head up, which seems to have dragged the metal buckle down his face until it…snagged some flesh.
Whether that was an intentional shot at getting some hardway going (a la Brock/Orton) or not, who knows, but it definitely added something to the match. And I’m glad they didn’t stop the match to clean him up.
Now, if they gimmicked the buckle with a blade…wow. *chef’s kiss* But as we saw with Cash Wheeler’s arm in AEW, those buckles can be plenty dangerous on their own.
Yes. There's no way those polished metal rings are going to create that cut. I saw exactly what you saw, immediately after contact there was blood. No time to put hands up and blade. They had to have rigged the buckle ring with a gig. There's no possible way you get that perfect of a cut from smooth metal like that. They either notched in something sticking out or welded in a little blade or something of that nature.
But it's a narrative contradiction. Just regular match with buckets of blood, not stopped. "Hell in a Cell the ultimate career shortening match" was stopped for Finn's cut. Just doesn't jive. Clearly if it wasn't a scripted moment they wouldn't have shot Brock's face at the very least. But to me seems pretty obvious it was a planned spot in how no one over reacted, ref / trainers alike.
I don't have a problem with it at all and thought it was very well done. It just amplifies how shitty the actual stoppages are tho. Joe from NXT. Finn from Mania. Makes they look bad in comparison being "saved" by the trainer. -
Undercard guys I got a lot of time for: Moriarty, Vikingo, Komander, Hook, & Jeff Jarrett lol. He gets plenty of love, but it's crazy how his presentation as a wily old school throwback Memphis stooging heel is clicking so perfect.
Regarding all the Punk & Bucks stuff, I have a slightly different take. Punk has been told he can't have contact as of now with The Bucks (their call). It seems to me like maybe Punk finally got a bit of perspective and has started a bury the hatchet tour. Went to Raw to bury the heat with Triple H & Miz. Stopped by Impact. Made up with Jericho. I think when he's allowed to have contact with them he may try to make up with them. Kenny I think is already at the point where he'd accept it. I mean maybe not too. But one can hope.-
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5 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:
One thing that confused me was during the Anny Jay/Julia Hart package. Anna mentioned Julia was her first (and best) friend. Are we supposed to forget TayJay? Or are they retroconning it?
I think they were probably shoot friends seeing as how they were both trained at QT & Cody's school at the same time. On air Tay Jay are bffs. But in the context of training and off air it's probably true.
My only complain with the compound match (and this is like the tiniest complaint of all time) is how in the world did Lexy Nair travel from Jericho's locker room in Baltimore to North Carolina in the matter of minutes? Just a small continuity thing that makes my OCD tick lol. Just have someone else interview Jericho.-
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6 hours ago, A_K said:
There exists a fervent anti-Fed mindset amongst swathes of the niche hardcore, to the point where we have terms like "Vincels" being tossed around, and language like "cunt" & "shitbrain" (which isn't remotely acceptable in any polite or civilised society, really, not least making the user sound quite low-IQ) & comparisons to far-right analysts like Tucker Carson is given legitimacy and egged on so long as it is used to amplify objections to statistical fact.
How very Tucker Carlson of you to take something legitimately grimy and gross (like the term Vincels) and tie it to people comparing you to Tucker Carlson. Gotta muddy those waters. Gotta put a drop of truth in your bullshit soup to give it legitimacy. Your posts are so negative and so devoid of reality that you have zero credibility. Your posts are the nadir of what this place is supposed to be about. You wring your hands and scream that the sky is falling when AEW literally just locked in a new deal for additional programming with WBD. You don't understand how TV & ad sales work. And all you care about is your axe to grind with the wrestling company you don't like.
Go away.
(I typed this response before I caught up to the mod post. But I feel it still needs to be said. Even if it solves nothing, at least I feel like I've said my peace and didn't let him get away with more of his inane fear mongering).-
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2 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:
There's also rumors that they are going to be having AEW do business with Max. Some have speculated that they may stream "ALL IN" on the platform. I still think it will be a traditional PPV but the fact they have not announced how you can watch it yet leads me to believe some conversations are happening.
Where there's smoke, there's fire. Double or Nothing is a traditional PPV. If they announced a Max deal starting with Forbidden Door (or All In) now, it may make people decide to skip Double or Nothing knowing the value and price point will be out dated. I definitely think there is something to them being on Max. But we'll have to wait until at least after this PPV to find out for sure. Seeing it reported that there is a new deal that has been signed (regarding You Tube streaming shows now being against the new contract terms) has me believing it's a done deal. PPVs will be on Max starting with All In. This way they aren't trying to get $80 out of the fan base in a single week with All In & All Out 7 days apart.
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I do think there's some merit in the argument but it's just being stated poorly. I think the truth is the decline in AEW is an over saturation issue. Dynamite, Rampage, Battle of The Belts, Ring of Honor. There's a lot of TV being produced right now with no delineation or difference in presentations or identities. I don't like the brand split in WWE, but I also don't this quantity over quality like AEW is leaning into. AEW was strongest when they had just one flagship show and they tried to make it as awesome as possible every week.
Now things are trying to be threaded through multiple shows possibly with multiple week lags. It's just not as fun of a narrative to have to follow so many shows. ROH has mostly self contained narratives but it's messy because Claudio is also doing this other things with BCC. Lucha Bros are tag champs but also a trios with Vikingo now on the other shows. Any ROH performer can show up any given week on AEW and vice verse. Case in point Claudio vs Fenix is happening on Dynamite.
ROH was a smart purchase. The way it's being run currently is just not smart. The PPVs & subscriptions may be pulling in a technical profit (since ROH has no over head to pay out) but it is a net negative since it is helping drive down overall interest. TK is too beholden to what ROH once was to see what it could be. And I just don't think it's ever going to change.-
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To elaborate a bit further so it's not just a hit and run insult post, WBD just locked them into an exclusive deal to where they can't even post You Tube shows anymore. The sky is not falling. WBD must be very happy to be partners with them. No, those numbers aren't great. And I even tend to agree that the 4 Pillars story is a big mess. But you need to stop with your non-stop hate mongering. You are the Tucker Carlson of this forum. No one likes you even when you make good points because you're fear mongering and being outlandish for the sake of your gimmick posts.
Read the room. You're the bottom of the barrel of wrestling discourse. Smackdown ratings are great. Raw is doing a bit better than they have been. And that's good for the business. WWE TV is not for me, but it doesn't make me mad that they're doing well. The more national companies doing well, the better it is for the wrestling business as a whole.
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4 hours ago, A_K said:
775k in the week SD posts 2.5 mil. Who is asleep at the wheel of WBD, and how long until someone at the network figures out the house is burning and gives TK a polite knock on the door to punt Guevara and Perry straight out of Wembley arena and hire someone who can actually script a television show? Called the 700s as incoming in February but to get there in 10 weeks is overkill .. they've burnt 25% of the audience in a matter of months while the competition and their army of Vincels / dyed-in-the-wool Fox-viewers go from strength to absolute strength ..
Bringing in another of the internet marks of the breed who thought Reigns retaining at WM would sink the Fed (reminder - SD just put up the strongest numbers this year without Roman even on the show) ain't going to fix the ship, uce.
You're an idiot.
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So which is it, do you want The Bucks & Kenny & Punk to refuse to work the date without more money, or be kept off the show as a punishment? Your posts are so disingenuous. I made the mistake of taking that one post at face value and you just up and add more verbal trash to the pile. I don't know what your hate boner with AEW is about but maybe you should harness that energy into something you do enjoy?
Saying The Elite no showed the MSG show is probably the dumbest post I've ever seen on this board. And that's covering a lot of ground. Dude The Rock no showed Mania this year!!1111!!!! Same logic. Someone not under contract wasn't on the show, absolutely shocking development.-
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51 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:
I have a bad feeling selling out with a large gate ahead of time is going to lead to a ROH at Madison Square Garden scenario where the card gets neutered and certain talents refuse to do the show unless they get additional payoffs
I mean, better now than after having announced something like Punk vs. Kenny and both guys saying they're not getting on the plane for less than X dollars
I'm not going to mock this because it's based on how things used to be. When your only payoff guaranteed to you was three $50 bookings and the rest was based on houses and what-not I'd see your point. That's how WWE used to be run. So you'd get Warrior holding them up for money because he didn't think his payoffs were going to be fair teaming with Hogan. But now with guaranteed contracts this isn't really a thing. No one is on paper only making $150 a month + discretionary bonuses. The Young Bucks make like $3 million a year each. They don't get to say nah I'm not doing All In without getting X amount extra. It's already baked into the guarantees. You show up and work as many dates as your contract allows for.
So a little off the mark, but at least based on how business used to be done. Can anyone think of the last time there was a big payoff dispute or holdup? MJF not doing the Wardlow match doesn't count for me, because I truly think that was all part of the plan. Drum up drama for his TV shoot promo. He just took it too far and made it more of a spectacle than it needed to be.-
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6 hours ago, hammerva said:
At this rate they might have to sign talent just to have an NXT Women's Tag Title match. The drafted the champion. They announced a tag title match and they they draft their opponents.
Still a little weird that Bron wasn't one of the guys elevated. I guess they want him to season the heel character for another year.
I actually have a theory on this. We'll see. But The Women's Tag Champs were drafted to Raw. The NXT Women's Tag Champs were drafted to Smackdown (and their next challengers). They could be using this as a way to do split rand women's tag titles onthe main brands. I expect the men's tag titles to get split up some point soon as well. I keep expecting and wanting some sort of parity and internal logic, both shows having equal titles and all that. If it doesn't happen after this draft it will never happen.
I prefer all the titles unified. But if that isn't in the plans (and it's not going by them creating a new men's world title), I am begging for some logic and parity. Don't make the women trade titles. Rebrand them Universal & World. Split the men's tag titles up and rebrand them Universal & World. Keep the NXT tag titles on Smackdown and rebrand them as Universal while Raw keeps World women's tag title.
I for the life of me do no understand the appeal of the writing always being so messy and haphazard when it comes to the structure of what titles are where and why.-
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Hi. Old man yelling at clouds here again. Found me another big ole logic gap.
Anyone want to explain why Raw got 9 draft picks today (14 people) & Smackdown only got 2 (4 people)?
I think the draft is my least favorite trope in modern wrestling.-
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Maybe this is a poorly thought out idea. But the draft pool thing I understand in the sense you have two shows. You can't do a real draft where all the big names go on Fox and then USA gets all the scrubs.
Would Smackdown being the men's draft and Raw being the women's draft at least alleviate the stupid and weird draft pool thing? There are a lot of legitimate big names people care about in the women's division. I think it could anchor Raw just as well as doing half of the roster being eligible. Just thinking out loud.-
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When Raw & Smackdown split in 2002 a draft made sense. When Raw & Smackdown Live split in 2016 a draft made sense. In no years between or since has a draft ever made sense. Does The NFL just allow whoever gets the first pick to pick any QB in the league? Doesn't have a lick of internal logic. Do these contracts have time frames? Does a 3 year Smackdown contract exist? What purpose does it serve if there is a draft and Raw can just pick your guy?
I get that this is scripted. But scripted and having no internal logic to that scripting is a problem. Can anyone tell me any internal logic here? How can a Raw Women's champ be drafted to Smackdown? It's messy it just doesn't make any sense. And it never has. Rename your damn titles. Take the show name out of the belts. Make it World Women's Champion and Universal Women's Champion. It gives you the latitude to swap things out, like The US & IC.
The truth is a draft should only be undercard prospects and NXT wrestlers being called up. Then if you want to move the big names you do it through trades during the draft. It accomplishes the exact same thing but at least gives you an internal logic and makes sense. How is it supposed to be intriguing when Smackdown picks Reigns and Raw picks Cody? Nothing changed. Wheels spinning. Same old shit.-
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I hope to hell this kid is a difference maker they gave up A LOT to get him. A 1 & a 2 this year AND NEXT to move up 7(?) spots (and get a 3 this year). Jeeezuuusssss.
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Has Lawful changed his avatar yet? lol
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Double or Nothing V - 5/28/2023
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
Posted
For fuck's sake how can they end Honky Tonk's historic IC Title reign with NO BUILD? Ugh what an utter disgrace of a booking decision!!11!!!! They should have had Warrior calling him out with Honky Tonk dodging him for weeks with different excuses!
Lol just a little exaggerated but food for thought. Sometimes fans get stuck too deep in the conventional wisdom bubble. Just because things happen a certain way more often than not doesn't mean when something different happens it's bad. Jade's loss was actually one of the best bits of booking they've done. She didn't get destroyed. She didn't get ruined. She doesn't have the stink of failure on her for losing. Ryback was dead when he lost to Punk. Goldberg was mostly dead when he lost to Nash. Jade is still protected and can easily say it was a fluke and still move up the ladder due to the manor she lost. Stat also gets a giant shot in the arm right out of the return gate.
Wrestling needs surprises. This was a perfectly done one. It almost had the buzz of a surprise MITB cash in. It was just a great piece of business and a creative way to past Jade's streak and not turn her into just another person.