JohnnyJ
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Posts posted by JohnnyJ
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Back in 2012 I decided it was time to be a grownup and start investing. I did what all the “experts” told me to do and put 90% of the money I was investing into index funds. The rest I invested in WWE because it was so cheap, had a healthy dividend and for funsies I wanted to say I was a part owner of WWE. It was the best investment I will ever make.
Some random mid-carder who got in at the right time must’ve made a fortune.
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I could see the Moxley vid being made by WWE. Who knows. Something doesn't add up about his exit from the company.
Regardless, a 2 minutes clip made Ambrose more interesting than he has been in several years.
Bringing the discussion back to what troubles WWE, oversaturation is the real killer. Not only does it cause decreased interest, but it makes it that much harder to tell simple stories and WWE is not capable of pulling off anything complex. If there is a multi-faceted storyline (the rise of DBry) it is almost accidental.
How simple is the Dustin v. Cody story? They literally sold the match in 5 minutes. No in-ring promo segments where they point to the titan-tron to catch everyone up. No multi-mans where the two wrestlers already face off before the actual match.
Yet WWE could not figure out how to run Dustin v. Cody. If ever there was an indictment of how WWE does things, this would be it.
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Now that Bayley is implicated can we get a few pages of Bayley bashing too? I’ll start. She dresses like a 5 year old.
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Alexa gave an interview (Lillian Garcia pod) about her time in developmental and explained that she was more or less an outcast. She didn't know how to wrestle and the women weren't especially helpful in guiding her along. It must be a very strange dynamic nowadays.
I look at it like this. There is only so much room at the top and you have arguably 10 different wrestlers who would be the center of the division in an earlier generation. The office is going to pick their favorites and unless you randomly catch fire your spot is going to be your spot. The real issue to me is with the overflow of female talent and the distance between your top players and everyone else.
What makes Sasha unique compared to other disgruntled wrestlers is no matter what they do with her, she remains more over than her push. If they made her the center of the Smackdown women's division tomorrow, the fans would eat it up. So while she may be a mark for herself, if the fans are too, what's the problem?
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2 hours ago, alstein said:
Why aren't the Obama exchange platinum plans a good deal for wrestlers? My guess is they'd pay around $1k a month, but have $500 limits on what they have to pay out in a year? Obviously indy guys can't really use those, but low-end WWE guys probably could.
They are. I feel like when talking about this stuff 4 or 5 separate issues all get jumbled together. (independent contractor status, health care for current and retired talents, collective bargaining (i.e. better benefits, pay, time off) and providing for retired talents.)
The only issue that really bothers me is the handling of the retired talents. It was a much different industry in the 80s and 90s. Many of the names of the eras had 3-5 year runs. Even if those were good money years, how long could that money reasonably last? How much money did a King Kong Bundy type ever make as a wrestler? If you're in your 40s or 50s with all sorts of aches and pains, no real income, no insurance and no marketable skills, life is going to be really hard. Does WWE owe these performers anything? No. Would it dramatically improve the quality of life of retired talents to chuck them $50k-$100k per year while barely effecting the bottom line? No question.
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5 minutes ago, Eivion said:
The problem is that the same issues of health that come from working WWE come from working those small indies as well, and that most people in the business spend the majority, if not all, of their careers in those smaller promotions. Never going to argue WWE can't be better better, but it can't only be them if you want actual change.
Right. I remember Owens being interviewed before he signed. His knees were already gone.
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12 minutes ago, Cristobal said:
How many Observer writers have died in their 40s?
Most journalists don't last in the profession until they hit their 40s because it is extremely difficult to find someone who will pay you a livable wage with benefits. I obviously understand your point, but it takes a special kind of person to advocate for worker's rights in someone elses business while at the same time treating your own employees like crap.
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1 hour ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:
Not trying to start with the whataboutism, but wasnt the observer recently accused of not paying writers and giving out free subs in exchange for content? Would love to see what the pension plan looks like. It’s probably buried somewhere in his shed next to the Magee tape.
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41 minutes ago, Hagan said:
I mean, for me, the big issue is that they really should provide full health care. They can certainly afford it. The stuff with pensions or their weird contracts is less of a factor to me and you also get into the issue of is it just WWE that's held to these standards or is it every wrestling company?
But so can most of the current talent. The issue for me are the people who had a lengthy tenure who never made any real money. They worked 100-200 nights a year, got released and now are broken down with all sorts of health issues/complications. Yes, you can argue they knew what they were getting into and WWE doesn't owe them anything, but why not try to make things right by them.
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Anyone ever gone to Axxess? Worth it? Is it the type of thing a toddler would have fun at?
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If I were talent only earning the downside I’d be pissed. I’d want some of the AEW millions. You know the AEW money is really good when Gallows/Anderson “allegedly” turned down multi-million deals with WWE.
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Thinking about some of the topics discussed the last few days (and having recently binge-watched The Good Place), it is important to recognize that the classic wrestling storyline is David v. Goliath. Can the underdog overcome the odds. WWE understands this. Which is why John Cena, a genetically gifted superman, spent his career not mowing people down, but selling, selling and selling some more. Hogan, all 6'7, 302 pounds of him, did the same. Yet these types are not traditional underdogs and are not particularly compelling when positioned is such. When Roman keeps on losing to Brock, he's just a badass who couldn't take down a bigger, stronger badass. When Finn or Bryan give it their all and come up short, it's elicits a different type of reaction.
Is it inevitable that fans are drawn to underdogs? Is it fate?
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7 hours ago, SorceressKnight said:
Moving it to this thread...
It sounds like it's through the looking glass, but ultimately it ties to the same reason that it all originally started with the "everything is us vs. them":
It's not just that there's an Us vs. Them: It's that in all sides and all groups, there's a silent majority of good people...who get shouted down by a LOUD, ANGRY, ENTITLED minority who want the whole world to revolve around them, PERSONALLY.
Because this minority is so loud, and so angry, and so entitled, they will MAKE the debate focus on what they- and only they- want, and if you're not as loud as them, or as angry as them, or as entitled as them, then you're just as bad as THEM...and eventually, because they're this loud, and this angry, and this entitled, they will MAKE you drive things to their perceptions. (See also why Daniel Bryan is the bad guy- he's exactly this type of person.)
...we just don't realize by and large, smarks ARE that minority, and it's starting to make wrestling a real drag for the casual fans who just want to see Roman Reigns punch people and just don't care about the other stuff.
I understand the argument, but why shouldn't wrestling be featuring the performers the diehards find the most compelling? A casual may just want to see Roman win, but Roman is only Roman because the company decided he was. He is a talented wrestler, but the majority of the roster is talented. Someone the fans actually wanted to see could have had his spot.
It is is interesting to see where the smark movement has gone. I remember the days when all we wanted was to get our favorites on tv and not have them treated like job guys.
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To me, the good matches argument is dated. Most wrestlers nowadays can work and regularly produce average to above average matches.
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3 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:
They should book Kevin Nash for every big event, and hope he shows up.
He is the only wrestler to put 20,000 in the garden. A proven draw.
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30 minutes ago, Thibs said:
What does this thing need to be to not be considered a disappointment?
A major WWE signing who could pack an arena (i.e. A.J. Styles). If Khan is actually dropping the reported $100 million into the promotion, this should be easy to do.
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57 minutes ago, Thibs said:
If they get a legit TV deal there will be ratings expectations. And the thing they need do above all else is focus on creating a compelling, must see TV show that gets people to watch every week. And simply putting on good matches will not achieve that.
Right. What Cody and the Bucks tapped into is good old-fashioned promoting around a one-time only special event still draws huge. Less is more in wrestling. Unfortunately, I do not know how that works with ratings expectations. The days of sitting through jobber matches are over.
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Someone should keep an archive of all of the obvious b.s. the sheets are reporting.
Remember two weeks ago when Meltzer reported that the Elite turned down deals with WWE that would pay each of them seven-figures annually? Now it makes sense why they would do that. Even though other existing feds can't even get on basic cable, Khan is negotiating with networks that have shown no interest in wrestling in almost two decades based on signing five wrestlers and a big bank account?
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WWE has done two things in recent years that really hurts the success of a new major promotion. First, they signed everybody. Second, they stopped releasing people and gave performers financial stability. Your average mid-carder does not have a history of drawing and is already making a lot of money. How much are they even worth to a new promotion? Why would someone throw mid-six figures at a Cesaro without any way to recoup it?
I don't see where the talent pool is coming from unless there is another shoe to drop. (Talent share with New Japan? CM Punk sighting?) It's not a coincidence that what we know so far resembles a reshuffling of the ROH roster.
That being said, all of this speculation about rosters is way more fun than discussing Cena's hair.
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When I think of Sid, I think of late 80s/early 90s WCW. It’s a time when top stars are winning matches with leg drops and shoulder blocks. Out of nowhere you have this guy who looks like he was created in a lab dropping people on their heads with these dangerous looking powerbombs.
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4 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:
That said, if I could pick one act to move from WWE to this new would be fed, it would be the Revival.
Definitely. We should put together a list of talents who are on the low end of the WWE pay structure , not going anywhere fast, and would potentially draw in a new environment. I would add Tyler Breeze. Is there anyone else?
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On 11/21/2018 at 6:20 AM, Archibald said:
My initial thought after reading all that was... where are they going to find enough good wrestlers to fill out the roster?
Right. During the days when ROH/TNA had talent packed rosters WWE, was looking for wrestlers that fit a certain mold. It gave the WWE alternatives the opportunity to sign a bunch of exciting talents that had been overlooked by WWE. Now that WWE is signing everyone with some buzz who can go, that talent pool is gone.
When there is talk of a new promotion, there are typically whispers of WWE talents who are either unhappy with their placement on the card, money or dates and would be open to making a jump. I'll believe it when it actually happens. Most would not give up a stable salary for a promotion which may not be around in six months.
All that being said, if the center of the new promotion is Omega, I would be very interested to see where things go. He's recognized by a portion of the WWE audience as the best wrestler in the world. That has to count for something when launching a new fed.
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On 11/20/2018 at 3:55 PM, Victator said:
You also are making a fallacy in comparing wrestling to soccer. The closest analog to wrestling would be MMA or Boxing and those do not have multiman matches.
There is a direct comparison to mma or boxing when it comes to promotion. Pitting the number one contender against the champion is a good way to make money. But if there's more money in promoting an untrained ex-wrestler and sending him out there to get his face pounded in, that's good too. The best matchup is the matchup that will make the most money.
As I'm in my "get off my lawn" phase of wrestling fandom, the WWE suffers by being a combat sport where the participants fight each other constantly leading up to the major ppv. That's not even taking into consideration that it is common knowledge that the wrestlers are fighting each other all week on the house show circuit. You don't promote by giving away what you're trying to promote and doing everything in your power to make sure it doesn't seem special.
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My impression was at the time Nak, Styles, Anderson and Gallows signed, none of them were taking nxt style contracts. ($50-$60k) These were people they poached who had some bargaining power. WWE wanted to see a return on investment.
MAY 2019 WRESTLING TALK
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
Posted
What is interesting about this particular moment in wrestling and I'm sure is what is getting in the way of some of these releases, is traditionally if WWE treated someone like a low-level C-program performer, it would be almost impossible for them to redeem themselves. Yet today due to how Vince values talent and a gigantic roster of enormously talented individuals, a lot of cream is no longer rising to the top.
In the past if a lower mid-card guy switches promotions (think Paul Roma or Hercules) you could try shooting them to the top of the card, but it would make the promotion look ridiculous. The rules have changed. So you'll have someone like Luke Harper who can't even get on the main shows who would be near the top of the card in another promotion.