Benji

Some good points (can I have a link on the Sherrifs watch stuff?) a lot of the witness testimony went both ways, this link has the breakdowns of each day of the trial, they go back a few pages. Still nothing concrete enough to think Zimmerman is guilty, and the lack of evidence of Trayvon hitting Zimmerman is lost on me as a few witness's said his hands showed injuries consistent with punching, I think the first responder was the one who said it never added up but she is not trained to identify that. You aren't saying Zimmerman was never hit by Trayvon are you? That is a little .... unorthodox as far as theories go. Why are you trying to paint me as a rape apologist and a racist, was that really called for? From an admin no less. You managed to put good points forward but did I piss you off that much by having a differing opinion that it warranted such childish behavior next to the better thought out points? I never mentioned rape or my views on what is and is not racism. Frankly it is a little insulting to be painted that way, if you want to know my views on racism then it is simple. Racism is when someone or a group holds beliefs another race is inferior (or superior), nothing in this case showed that and nothing showed Zimmerman had a hatred towards blacks. Rape victims often shut down from the trauma and stop fighting in hope they get no further injury, they do not actively attack someone and fail to scream (Maybe a few cases) but the vast majority who fight back scream and shout (still rape no matter what she does, don't try and twist that) to say it compares to Trayvon is assuming the less likely scenario played out, also it's appealing to emotion by comparing rape to Trayvons killing, that has no place in a discussion (unless you legitimately thought I held the views on rape you insinuated). I'm not going to get an apology, probably a personal ban but I was putting forward what I think and you decided to attack my character. You got some maturing to do and some better discussion tactics to learn.

I still think Zimmerman put together an absolute shambles of a neighborhood watch, he should have contacted the other watch members at home and informed them to watch Trayvon. That does not mean his actions were necessarily wrong but if he was a competent watch coordinator he would have had a better system in place from the get go. Because you get water in your lungs? World of difference in the environment and situation between drowning and a fight where you are scared for your life a guy has a gun. Treyvon wasn't freezing up, he was actively being the aggressor in the position of dominance (at least when the shot was fired). When did I say brutal attack? Or are you saying he was attacked gently? either matter since it was his fearing for his life, which with all the news about head injuries is a legitimate concern. We are not going to convince each over either way, you believe that I believe this. Something obviously convinced you to think that, It didn't convince me but good on you for having good intentions.

Still waiting on proof Zimmerman lied......

Trayvon had his mouth covered? When Zimmerman was reaching for his gun? and Trayvon kept hold of Zimmerman's head? Something there does not add up. Even after 5 minutes of thinking about that example it still makes no sense to compare to this, did the ocean rise up or what? Drowning people risk letting water in their mouth if they open it, what was Zimmerman going to put in Trayvons mouth?

Okay lets say the first part is the truth, I am saying when Trayvon was ontop of Zimmerman, scared for his life because this creepy guy has a gun, why did he not use his mouth to scream "help he has a gun" I am pretty sure I can use my mouth and hands at the same time, I'm sure Trayvon could. Not hard to understand, being scared of a gun = screaming for help because the guy has a gun.

I meant when he was on top of Zimmerman slamming his head into the floor. Seems unusual to grab a guys head if you fear they have a gun. See how nothing adds up, the prosecution thought about all this and they had no evidence to believe these theories. Yes for all we know Zimmerman waved the gun around, said "come here blackie" then shot him, but there is no evidence that supports that. If there is I hope it comes out and he is punished accordingly. What is making people believe these claims? Whatever is proving to them without doubt that Zimmerman is lying I would like to see it. Burden of proof is on those disproving Zimmerman as he is the only living eyewitness. Sorry for being so foolish for not seeing the truth, I need to start basing my opinions not on what physical evidence backs up but what hypothetical I can think up next.

Client? So you have no evidence to disprove his claims? Sounds like you are a little paranoid and profiling Zimmerman as a liar for being the defendant.

If Trayvon did fear he was going for a gun then why not scream for help because he had a gun? The only person who walked out and saw the fight say Zimmerman on the bottom screaming for help to him and no mention of a gun was made. Trayvon should have stopped running the first time and just turned around and say "fuck you my dad lives here" when Zimmerman asked him what he was doing. Zimmerman should have stayed put, but not doing is no reason for Trayvons assault. Neither is "assuming he was reaching for a gun", if Zimmerman posed a clear visible threat then I would agree with his actions but it is all guess work. There is also the evidence that Trayvon was quite violent and used to fighting, but that was not entered into the court case so is irrelevant. Now we have people agitated with the murdered, open season on blacks and child killer rhetoric going through their heads, most of which never learned a thing about the case. Thats the people causing damage not the people holding vigils. And more damage will come when it gets out that the Martins case against Zimmerman will only pay out the equivalent of Trayvons earning power and everyone jumps on the "institutionalized racism" train. There is a time to fight racism but this is not the case to do it. Please show the evidence that disproves the defenses claims?

I notice some confusion about events and aspects of the story, dispatchers have no legal authority and are told to say "wait for the police" Zimmerman was walking to the cut through to read the street sign (as the dispatcher wanted so Zimmerman could tell the police which street to go to) because they were changed often and the people robbing the houses previously had swapped them for that reason, so Zimmerman was not stalking or pursuing Trayvon (let alone in a illegal manner, ill touch on this later) Up until Trayvon punched Zimmerman (supported by all the physical evidence) there was no crime and Trayvon had no way of knowing the gun was out, firstly Florida does not allow open carry so when Zimmerman was told it was on camera he was relieved so no open carry there. Second Zimmerman in his previous calls to the police had shown he really did not want to follow or watch any of these burglars and he had the gun those times so it is not gun courage. So up until Trayvon touched Zimmerman he had no idea if Zimmerman wanted to do him harm, that is self defense out the window for Trayvon (guy is bringing your wallet back to you in a shady hood and you punch him? Yes very reasonable ) There is also Trayvons missing 4 minutes he had to run home, since he could not make it 75 yards in that long after he had started running he must have pulled up to hide or walk around. As for the actual assault, okay so Trayvon is slamming Zimmerman's head into the concrete (supported by evidence) so unless Benoit taught us nothing about brain injuries, he was fearing for his life, since an actual physical fight was happening where Trayvon was on top and Zimmerman could not retreat Zimmerman had no choice but to shoot him. So the only people turning this into a race thing are the NAACP and people ignoring Trayvon initiating the fight to claim its open season on people of colour. So can someone explain to me how "following" (or walking in the same direction in a public place) is creating a confrontation? No one can honestly believe being in the same proximity is cause for assault and then trying to brain a guy? That opens the door for attempted murder for someone "following you" which is far worse than getting your head smacked off concrete just to kill a guy. Oh maybe someone can point out why Trayvon did not keep running or stand up and run after attacking Zimmerman? So yeah he had no intention of killing the kid (or even attacking him) until he was pinned down being beaten. If not then why not approach with the gun out and tell him to get down then give him a kicking? Oh he was smart to ring the cops then go kill a guy, master plan. Btw Trayvon had the height and weight advantage at the time. Sorry for sounding abrasive but this shits been going on on every forum and it is too goddamn hot here.