Hustler of Culture
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Posts posted by Hustler of Culture
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9 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:
Now that I think of it, I dont think I have ever been clear on how exactly Fritz Von Erich transitioned from "evil German Nazi heel" to "beloved son of Texas that loves Jesus Christ, Texas, and his kids." Does anyone know the Cliff's Notes on that?
Fritz was known to a degree because he was a great discus thrower and football player at TCU (IIRC). I wondered about this as well for a long time and I was finally told that the family would just say that Von Erich was their 'stage name.' As far as transitioning from Fritz being the Nazi to Fritz being the ultimate Texas dad babyface, it was not uncommon for stuff like that to happen. Baron Von Raschke got over as a babyface after a while. But in the end I think it was people knew that Fritz was born and raised in Texas and some knew his real name and others did not and it never became a big deal.
The thing about Texas wrestling fans back then is that a higher % of them believed pro wrestling was real and would take great offense to anybody saying otherwise. They believed in the Von Erichs as being what this upstanding model Texas family and when Fritz worked them with Lance Von Erich that was such a slap in the face it ruined Fritz's credibility. I'm guessing Fritz couldn't quite understand that and thought it's pro wrestling and you work the fans in pro wrestling. And I would bet he couldn't imagine the uproar and disgust that came from it.HoC
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2nd time I've seen Tracy Williams. I thought he had a near 5* match against Yehi. His match against Lethal wasn't as good, but still really darn good.
I personally love the booking. Going a little off topic, I remember years ago thinking that The Sopranos showed how to 'book' a swerve that can work in wrestling. Basically when Janice shot Richie was the swerve as it was evident that Richie and Tony would square off and that would lead to Richie's demise. But Janice shot him and it shocked everybody...however, it made perfect sense as Richie was showing signs of being abusive to Janice and Janice was an unstable, take no shit from anybody type of person who was just assaulted by Richie.
Anyway, that's what the booking here reminded me of...although far less salacious. It was evident that it would be Lethal vs. Gresham...but Willliams won in an upset. But he deserved it, his matches have been great. And it elevates Williams and likely doesn't hurt Lethal who is over anyway.
HoC
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1 hour ago, Happ Hazzard said:
Were Fritz's real kids "Von Erichs" in high school?
No, they went by their actual surname Adkisson.
I remember seeing newspaper clippings of Kerry using his real last name in discus competitions when he was in high school.
HoC
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5 hours ago, Archibald said:
Would I be crazy if I said that RoH has been the best post-lockdown promotion in the world? Many other promotions had higher highs than RoH in these past few months, but I don't think that any other promotion has been so consistently enjoyable. Pure tournament was a blast and I'd say that majority of what we saw in post tournament TV episodes has been good to great as well. Now all they need is to deliver a good Final Battle PPV to cap it off.
Some matches have been set up during last couple of weeks:
Rush/Brody for RoH world title
EC3/Jay Briscoe
Taven/Bennett vs Vincent/BatemanMark Briscoe in a promo said that he wants to get back tag titles so we are probably getting Mark/X vs Gresham/Lethal for tag titles. From what I recall, before lockdown, Shane Taylor + SoS had trios titles shot so that might be a match as well.
I don't think that's crazy at all, I think it's spot on.
HoC
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22 minutes ago, OSJ said:
Gary Hart just exuded menace. You were almost certain that if his guy got the babyface on the ropes Gary would slice him open with a straight razor. Funnily enough, I learned years later that Hart always carried a straight razor in his pocket in case the marks decided to get cute.
I am a huge Gary Hart mark. He had a different persona from other managers in that he wasn't a pussy, but a coward nonetheless. Menace is a good word for him as I never got that Albano was a pussy either, but he certainly didn't have the pure evil running thru his veins like Gary did. Fuji wasn't a pussy either, but he was more of a caricature. Hart reminded me more of a villain that Vic Mackey would face. You knew Mackey would get a way out of it in the end, but you didn't know how or at what cost. That's what it was like watching Gary vs. the Von Erich's as a kid. But for me it got to the point where even at a young age I couldn't stand Fritz and badly wanted to see him get his comeuppance so I became a fan of Gary's.
HoC
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Gary Hart with a short promo, intense as a motherfucker.
HoC
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Not sure what possessed me but recently I started watching a lot of One Man Gang stuff. Here's a match where he tags with Brody vs. Jumbo and Tenryu.
I was a mark for OMG when I was young. I just remember hearing about him and then seeing him and he had a cool look and I was a big Gary Hart fan. Then the entire match vs. Kerry Von Erich where Hart had his hair shaved and OMG was handcuffed to the post and he took the post off, but not in time for Gary's hair.
As I got older I started to think he was a 'bad worker' because he wasn't doing tope con hilo's or had the technical precision of Billy Robinson. But the more I watch him the better I think he was. He was the same height at Brody and weighed more. He wasn't super agile, but agile enough and more importantly could make an impression with his size while making smaller opponents look like legitimate threats. I think he was just kinda at the wrong place just at the wrong time...If he hit UWF, World Class or WWF a couple of years earlier he would have drawn mega money. Instead he drew fairly decently, but bad timing kept him from being a bigger draw.HoC
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7 hours ago, Matt D said:
Arm would be very quick to dispute that he and Tully weren’t draws, to the point that he considers them leaving a big part of JCP’s downfall. You’re free to argue with him.
Arn has stated that he wasn't a main eventer but that he could have pressed the booking committee more to become a main eventer.
Tully was a draw. He was arguably the most important Horseman because he kept the heel heat on the Horsemen. Fans would cheer Flair and Arn, but they really didn't cheer Tully. And he served as Flair's role when Flair was defending the belt somewhere else. Tully was the guy that people wanted to see Magnum and Dusty beat up the most.
According to Cornette's record keeping, the MX feud with Arn & Tully was pulling in big houses and was looking to grow even further and then Arn & Tully left. However I don't see Arn & Tully leaving causing JCP's downfall. They were taking on too much money with the second private plane, they got too far away from their business model that worked and the Dusty finish...which did initially work...got overplayed and turned fans off.But the biggest part for JCP's downfall was really the finances. Their accounting and finance department was a nickel & dime operation. That's where Vince always had the advantage over other promoters, he was able to take profits and invest his earnings well enough to plan for disaster but also re-invest in the WWF/WWE.
HoC
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Drawing power matters because there wouldn't be a business if nobody drew. But it should not be the only consideration. Arn Anderson was never a great draw but he was a top notch in-ring worker and promo guy that was great at getting those who did draw over. Sabu wasn't a great draw,but he greatly influenced the industry and was an innovator.
I do think Omega, if he retired tomorrow, would probably be HoF worthy based on his run in Japan. Particularly considering that wrestlers just don't have the long runs at the top anymore. But it takes away the attention from others who didn't have the advantage of working while the WON HoF was running. but absolutely deserve to be in the HoF.HoC
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I've felt it's a serious flaw to the WON Hall of Fame. It's a mistake because it doesn't give other wrestlers that are not in the HoF or have long retired the same benefit of being fresh in the voters' minds. Bull Curry passed away in 1985 and last wrestled in 1979, 17 years before the WON HOF came out. If the shoe was on the other foot and voters could not vote for Omega until 17 years after he last wrestled there's a good chance they wouldn't quite remember all of those great matches and have to consider how much he actually drew. But with being able to vote for Omega now when he's was the 'hot topic' of discussion it skews the voting.
I'm glad to see Akiyama get in there. I've always been a huge Akiyama mark and I think booking really hurt him from being a megastar like Misawa, Kobashi and Kawada. The late Bison Smith said he was the best in-ring worker he had ever been with and they just didn't push him enough as the top guy early enough in his careerHoC
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9 hours ago, Infinit said:
RE: Lance Von Erich
Wasn't he actually a pretty big high school football player from the Dallas area, which would've made making his a Von Erich an even worse idea?
Yes he was. That's why the word was well out by then and Fritz couldn't hide it any longer.
HoC
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Word was out pretty good by then on Lance Von Erich being a fake Von Erich. I chalk it up to Fritz being desperate. From reading Gary Hart's book Fritz had really big hangups about money. The Von Erich name was a huge brand in Texas and quite frankly a money making machine, thus the creation of Lance. And when it got exposed that he wasn't a real Von Erich, Fritz panicked and announced he wasn't a real Von Erich without thinking how bad and stupid it would make the entire family look.
Kerry was a huge name in the business even in NY at the time. Combine that with his physique he fit in line with what Vince liked,but I doubt he would have been pushed as a main eventer as he was 'too Texan' for Vince's tastes. I don't think he would have jobbed Kerry out given how he gave the Funks and Ron Bass legitimate quality runs. But I don't see Kerry getting pushed to main event status. He probably would have gotten the I-C title and then they wouldn't commit to putting him above that level even though that was a natural progression for most babyfaces.
I have my doubts about David as well particularly with David's physique. I loved DVE to death, but he didn't seem like Vince's type of wrestler. The biggest thing that could have possibly turned that around is that David was pretty good on the mic. Or he might have teamed Kerry and David together.HoC
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Hall was the first I saw do the chokeslam. He would do it where he would fall to both knees as he slammed the guy to the mat. Sid would fall to one knee. Versus say The Big Show who would not fall to either knee.
My guess is that Hall saw it from somebody in Japan when he worked for NJPW in the 80's as he seemed to get much of his moveset from there.
HoC
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I love this PURE tournament. Scientific wresting combined with worked wrestling maneuvers and a change of rules to differentiate it from anything else.
Really loved Tracy Williams vs. Fred Yehi match. The rules allow for new stories to be told and they told some great ones. Watching it you start to get interested in one facet of the match and then forget that both guys were going to run out of rope breaks. But they did smart things like Yehi and Williams still blocking holds even though they had 2-3 rope breaks left in the match.
The selling is better and different and I don't have to watch guys thigh slap worked punches.
The promos aren't bad, but they're not good. Reminds me a lot of HHH type promos where it's a generic paint by numbers of how a wrestler cuts a promo
But as far as the tourney, god bless this stuff. Glad I'm getting caught up on it.
HoC
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2 hours ago, AxB said:
Quick, someone bring up Black Panther so HoC can tell us it was only successful because LotR fans wanted to see Martin Freeman and Andy Serkis reunited!
Quick somebody remind AxB that movies and pro wrestling are two completely different things and there have been numerous financially successful black movies before Black Panther which doesn't matter anyway as again...movies and pro wrestling are two different things. Might as well compare baseball to East Berlin scat porn.
HoC
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4 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said:
Some people think they know a lot about market demand, especially people who currently have or in the past have had decision-making power in show business. Then a Crazy Rich Asians comes along and ends up being the most successful rom-com in a decade and wow, turns out those people's ideas may have been based on dated or outright faulty assumptions. Anyway, if your standard is someone has to draw like a peak '90s star to be modestly represented on televised American wrestling, we should probably just stop putting on wrestling because damn near nobody is pulling their weight.
As for who's a better worker, a lot of that will come down to taste. My understanding is people speak pretty highly of Asuka, Sane, Shirai, and a lot of other Joshi women who make the jump. But do go off.
At its core, I get the feeling you're not their market so they probably shouldn't concern themselves with you demand. But thank you for sharing your ideas.
CRA is a film versus pro wrestling being a weekly program that has a business model that requires people to pay money to go to watch workers perform. There's always been the random, one off successes in film that make the film successful. But when you're trying to operate a successful promotion on a weekly basis it's a different animal.
The Joshi gals aren't drawing well in the US by any standard of time that one can present unless you're drill down to compare it Dennis Corralluzzo running shows at truck stops in Trenton. If they were drawing well, even by today's standards, then there would be a valid point about Cornette being racist towards Joshi gals.
I am in the AEW market. I live 2 hours from their HQ and I'm in the key demo. I'm the epitome of the person they should concern themselves with appealing to.HoC
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4 hours ago, DangerMark said:
This quoted sentence sounds a bit like @Technico Support's point, except phrased to sound a bit less like some decidedly stone age thinking, as if Shida being Japanese is her Thing.
I'm also struggling with what you mean by "American style," because I've seen enough 90's and 00's Joshi to see the similarities in the current men and women's American styles. There are plenty of counter examples to your sweeping generalisations about Japanese pro-wres in general, including a match I saw last night between Masa Saito and Akira Maeda from 1987 where Super Strong Machine jumped Maeda on his way to the ring and his face was pissing blood. Not much respect going on there.
Or do what @El Gran Gordisaid,
There's more to being a Japanese wrestler than being from Japan. Their style and psychology is very different from the US style and what US fans generally expect, particularly on cable TV. It's a different look, different background, different style, different selling, different fire, different heeling, etc.
I'd guess that I've been watching puroresu before you were born. Nobody ever said there was no heel vs. face psychology whatsoever in Japan. But if you're not willing to admit that the psychology and style is very different then you're just being willfully ignorant or just not paying attention. Like saying Arena Football is almost identical to the NFL.
They aren't drawing big numbers or even decent numbers. Doesn't mean that they can't be used, but it's not wise to book as many as you can and push them to the moon.HoC
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4 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:
Your dog whistle is getting a little too loud here, you ridiculous nitwit. Maybe take a breath and think before you post again. "Supporting Cornette's obvious trolling" is probably not the most worthwhile hill to die on. Go back to being hilariously wrong about "heels vs faces in Japanese wrestling", or something.
I've probably been watching puroresu before you were born and have actually been to the Tokyo Dome and Korakuen Hall.
They aren't drawing and haven't drawn. Their style is very different, they don't speak English which causes a disconnect with the fans, they don't understand basic things like how to set up spots to camera, etc.
If they were drawing big numbers here then Cornette would be wrong. But they're not and you got panties bunched up over somebody not being into your Japanese schoolgirl jackoff fantasies.HoC
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5 hours ago, zendragon said:
But it is marketing demand. WWE is an international brand, they want stars that appeal to Japanese, Chinese, and South Korean audiences. Even if you are mainly domestic like AEW you still have a lot of asian-americans you want to appeal to(and appeal to their pocket books)
Nobody ever said you could not have Japenese women on the card. But thee is overkill like everything else in the business.
If everybody wants to look like and wrestle like Flair, nobody stands out and it gets dull. If everybody is a giant, then nobody is a giant.
If they were consistently big draws and somebody didn't want them on the card, then you can point to racism. That's the part of meritocracy of the business.
But if you're claiming racism over somebody stating the obvious that you shouldn't push people that don't draw and historically have not drawn well in this market, it's face palm-city.
HoC
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3 hours ago, DangerMark said:
I am struggling to see how having access to fewer talented female wrestlers is good for AEW but if you people would have just shut the thread at Billy Gunn like I said, all this unpleasantness could have been avoided and we wouldn't have had to grapple with the massive sleazy underbelly of the grappling. Again.
The division was an abortion before COVID-19 and the Joshi gals are completely overrated.
We're not talking about the next Lyger's or Tajiri's here. Shida has potential, but she's extremely green and if you throw more inferior Joshi talent into the mix, Shida gets lost in the shuffle and is no longer presented as special.
Kinda like if you have a promotion with all giants...you have a promotion that doesn't have any giants.
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4 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said:
Expressing a desire to see fewer people of a particular ethnicity might not be the call for diversity you think it is.
At its core it has nothing to do with their ethnicity. It has to do with meeting your market demand.
If they were drawing like Steve Austin or even Diesel, then stating you don't want Joshi women on the card would be racist...and stupid.
And at this point, more of the westernized women are far greater draws and far better American style workers.HoC
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1 hour ago, EVA said:
You apparently skipped the part where he said having too many Asian women “dilutes the gene pool,” which could not be any more on-the-nose racist without using an actual slur.
And like all good, intellectually dishonest racists, he dramatically overstates the number of Asian women currently on TV for either company right now, before concluding with an appeal to put more white women on TV.
How is that racist?
Asking for diversity is now racist?
Again...
Oof.
HoC
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1 hour ago, AxB said:
AEW's Women's division was going along great until international travel was stopped. If they had still had access to the Joshi talent, it would have been better.
Also, it's really not difficult to add a signature to your profile. You don't need to put one at the bottom of your posts.
It was a dumpster fire before the international travel ban. The Joshi talent they have had is vastly overrated and not ready to work the American style as they have no clue how to setup spots for the camera and botched spots all over the place. Omega's booking was the drizzling shits, made little sense and hasn't gotten any of them over except for one match when the crowd popped for Riho. And then the fans turned against Riho because she's the drizzling shits and can't make it believable working against Rose, Statlander, Baker, etc.
Fans have skewered just about every female on the roster at one point. Shida probably being the main exception. But if she's forced to job, you can tell by her coming out the ring with all of the fire of a plate full of piss.
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He's racist because he doesn't like today's Japanese women's wrestling, even though he put over AJW and mentioned that in the 80's AJW would not draw in the US?
And that the place that had several Japanese women's wrestling...AEW...made a complete dumpster fire of their women's division and nobody gives a shit about their women's division.
Oof.
HoC
Cutting A Fucking Promo 101 Revisited
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
Posted
Ace in the hole.
HoC