BloodyChamp
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Posts posted by BloodyChamp
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I just heard about Lanny. The Rock n Roll Express match still belongs on any alltime ballot IMO.
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I saw something about an Abdullah the Butcher doc I think? But I can’t find it again. Man if there’s anybody whose seen it all, done it all, and covered it all up it’s him. He’s the biggest untold story left IMO. Forgetting my opinion on him as a mean old man now for a minute, he had an amazing life. We can’t imagine his early life let alone his life working as a self made special attraction minority wrestler in the territory days.
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I think the Eagles winning will be tolerable outside of Eagles fans, SB champions have been hushed pretty dang fast the last few years so it might only last for the offseason.
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I’m going for the Eagles but I don’t think people will like the real reason why. I’m sorry but I can’t help how I feel lol! The other side of this is the people playing the “If Mahomes win 1 more etc etc etc is he the GOAT” game. I just don’t have the energy to muddle through another career where people say somebody’s the future GOAT after every play he makes.
I respect Mahomes and he may be the future GOAT but I’ve had to listen to it about Brees, Rodgers, Luck, and for shorter amounts of time but with just as much intensity, about guys like Dak and Kaep. Yeah that all happened. It doesn’t seem like it but it did.We actually had a discussion here not to long ago about how Mahomes could be postprime Favre at best once his legs slow down and his head no longer spins like an owl. Yeah he’ll still have his arm but his left handed passes and his no look stuff will be INT’d to death just like Favre’s arm punts were. Then it was a year ago that the same crowd was asking if Mahomes was a future alltime choker!!!!!! Yeah that happened to after his 3 adjusted INTs in a row in OT vs the Bengals before lol!
Why can’t everybody just watch the game lol! If this is how it has to be though, I’m rooting for the lesser quarterback. I was rooting for the 49ers before this lol!
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Well Eric has finally drummed up an explanation for at least 1 of the questions he’s been asked 100 times besides “there was just all these people and all this stuff that you don’t know about so it’s not what you and your Koolaid.” It’s such a load of garbage that he can’t explain it without getting the frog out of his throat though. Only watch if you can tolerate a Cris Collinsworth voice without barfing I guess.
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Hogan hit FB this morning, on my end amyway. Reading through some of the comments...it seems like Hogan is still Hogan walking cane or no walking cane. The truth of that matter, whatever it may be, sure won’t be known from coming out of his mouth. Not that I go to FB comments for the truth but between them and Hogan...aw you know.
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I plan on getting my niece a Polaroid soon. She likes all the physical media stuff in my house.
I think I’ve gave my minority opinion on Mongo before but I could be wrong. He wasn’t a professional wrestler but there were more dangerous guys in the ring most nights on TV, let alone in history. He had 1 really bad accident with Regal. Whoever’s idea it was to let an untrained wrestler do a pileriver is whose dangerous IMO.
I want to say One Man Gang, Abyss, and Barry Darsow of all people had that going on somewhere. Then there was those few weeks Len Denton wrestled on Nitro and Tenay was like yeah he was The Grappler.
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2 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:
One would like to think perhaps now that we're post-'Last Match' he may have mellowed a bit. Maybe the question's now been answered in his mind to a degree, as to whether or not he could still go if someone would just 'let him' - I'm no psychologist (I've just been playing one here for 17 years) but I'm sure it's a lot easier to let go of being 'The Man' when the door's been closed for you (in this case, by Father Time - perhaps the biggest heel of all). I once heard Mick Foley talk about being almost relieved that the decision to continue working was taken out of his hands - maybe something similar here. I doubt it, cause it's, y'know, Flair, but... maybe.
O for sure...it’s something we all will deal with in our life, with the stage we’re on simply adjusted for size. I’ve dealt with it myself and had to let it go the same way. What was also the same way though was that I made a jackass of myself before I finally did let it go well after the door was already closed. When I did though...it was over just like our elders said it would be. It was a relief and the world didn’t end, and our true friends remained our friends because they didn’t care if we weren’t the man anymore because we were still the man to them just like they’re still the man to me.
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I liked Ric Flair’s apology to Becky Lynch and Seth Rollins. What was even better though was what he added about who the man really is. He was so right. And his backhanded compliment/dig at social media was true to. That was probably the smartest, most mature thing I’ve ever heard him say. That makes RIC FLAIR the man.
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The cruiserweight division was promoted as seriously as a heart attack until about 1998. It was those guy’s belt and they wanted that belt, not other belts. That’s 1 reason the segregation type stuff worked. Then when it ended the luchadores became jobbers and the others became midcarders while the actual title was just kind of there for whatever midcarders weren’t on vacation with the TV or US Title. So at the time Jericho was right about what he said yes even though it wasn’t always that way.
Also Rey Mysterio was so great. He was so great that he became an exception to all of this stuff. They just couldn’t ignore him.
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Hennig turning was so dang predictable. It was the first really kinda lame thing they’d done long term since 1995. The turn was done so well though, and Flair’s dead head the following night was so badass that it saved it. And Flair’s promos after this were as good as anything he’d ever done.
I know alot of people liked Jericho cutting up on TV every week but it was frustrating for me being a WCW diehard who wanted them to get it together. He’d do his thing on TV then just get buried. Then I’d hop online and hear people talking about how great it was, which only meant it’d be so much better when he leaves. Then I’d read what he would say himself on his website lol ugh...
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The NFL has been WCW for a long time until this year really
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1 hour ago, twiztor said:
yeah, we are certainly the exact same demographic, as my experience mirrors yours. i loved all of Jericho's nicknames for people: Tony Skee-a-vone, Ron Mysterio, Quasi Juice, etc. By the time Ralphus was introduced, Jericho was among my favorite parts of Nitro.
I didn't watch Fall Brawl that year and that closeup of Flair's face made me actually think that maybe Flair had died (not necessarily due to the head slamming, just in general). bizarre way to open the show, that's for sure.
The closeup of Flair’s face was scary af at the time. I wish they would have done a little more with it. They didn’t even acknowledge it on TV. They just said somewhere in hour 2 that o yeah Ric is injured. I would go as far as to say that had then been exploited properly, it could have been as big of a freak out as some of the doomier stuff that Foley, Undertaker, or Jake did in the WWF. They really missed on that very good idea that somebody grabbed out of nowhere. WCW had the best ideas. I’ve said the 1000 times. They just didn’t know how to use them.
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12 minutes ago, JohnnyJ said:
Here's my anecdotal story about the death of WCW/ppv numbers. The audience at the time was much younger than it is today and ppvs were really expensive. My friend group was divided into three categories, (1.) the few diehards, (2.) the ones who got into it due to the wrestling boom, and (3.) the people who just enjoyed having a get together on a Sunday night.
We would pool our money together to buy ppvs. The diehards wanted to watch everything. WCW put on a bunch of ppv stinkers and gave away just about everything on free tv (remember that Goldberg as hot as he was was really a tv attraction, not a ppv attraction) The tide had shifted and the boomers moved from WCW to WWF when Austin/Rock got molten hot. Over a relatively short period of time only the diehards wanted to shell out money to watch WCW ppvs. I was stuck watching screenshots of WCW ppvs in real time on web sites like lordsofpain.net.
This was not going to be reflected in the ratings because the fun of the monday night wars was switching back and forth. More eyeballs on wrestling meant higher ratings all around.
By 99 I was in college and the boom was over. There were still WWE people floating around but there wasn't a single casual wrestling fan I knew who would be caught dead watching WCW. It was me alone in a dorm room watching nitros and listening to wcw live.
Wow...a few things in this post just blew my mind. Goldberg was a TV attraction, not a ppv attraction. Ain’t that the truth. Ratings didn’t tell all for the reasons you gave. That’s also the truth. And many boomers had switched to WWF. A personal story of mine is actually about 1 of my Dad’s friends who was a diehard WCW fan (NWA) before there were diehards and casuals. Everybody who was a fan was a diehard. He had an illegal cable or something that got all WCW ppvs free and the first ppv I ever saw was at his house thanks to my Dad arranging it with him. That was Superbrawl 91. I think I’ve told that story before but I’ve never added that once Austin got hot he never watched WCW again. I wish I could ask him if it was because he finally gave up on it after Starrcade. He’d been through the same crap like we all had. The Black Scorpion, GAB 91, The Shockmaster, etc. But he died a WWF diehard.
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The Steiners have signed a legends deal according to a random sponsored FB that came across my shit. A quick Google showed a bunch of results, none of which I clicked but it must be true with so many.
They’ve discontinued DVD sets right? A properly done Steiners set is 1 of my holy grails. Do they still do docs somehow? Somewhere? Just no more physical media?
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Muta was also a part of my foundation as a fan that of course went all the way back to childhood. It was just like the article also said. I just plain liked his moves. I didn’t care if he was “bad.” I rooted for him because of his cool moves.
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Sting has said he was bad off yes. I’m still taking him in a race around the building with Hogan in 1997. It’s not like being sober was a standard either. It should have been but it’s another discussion just like being physically attractive is. The discussion here is that the person who was supposed to do business didn’t want to.
I’ll even add 1 more thing that’s been used against Sting. He didn’t want to be back on the road 24/7. Still...that hadn’t been a standard for the WCW world champion for a long time. And the current champion at the time was an example. Sting just plain should have won the match no matter what.
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I can’t believe that story has survived so long on life support. The story about Sting being out of shape is nothing but something Hogan came up with, that Eric has stuck with over the years because of course his biggest fear is not being Hogan’s 4th in line when he wants somebody to suck his d*^%.
Say Sting looking like crap is true...ok...lies are often fabricated from the truth of another matter. Gaslighting, leaving 1 or 2 things off the table. That doesn’t make the lie being told into the truth. It just didn’t matter. Sting had to win. Hogan didn’t want him to and that’s that.
And like I said in the Montreal thread...if I could mash a button and bet on a race around the building between Sting and Hogan that night in 1997 I’m betting all the money in my pocket on Sting. And if anybody wanted to give me a loan I wouldn’t need to be persuaded much to bet on Hogan needing an ambulance halfway through the race. It’s not like that had ever been a standard for being champion anyway. Maybe it should have been, but that’s another discussion. The last champion who was both in shape and physically attractive was actually Sting...7 years ago. Jeeze we’d seen people wearing that belt who looked like they were about to die like Flair when he was sick in 1991, a man suffering from a disease (The Giant), Vader who was...Vader. Now hold on...I love those guys and I’m not judging them. I’m just showing how incredibly stupid that story is that Hogan came up with. And Hogan. Yeah Hogan was also champion on days where he could barely walk to the ring with his knee.
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1 hour ago, JLowe said:
Did you see this article by our own Phil Schneider?
https://www.theringer.com/2023/1/22/23566293/keiji-muto-great-muta-pro-wrestling-legacy
Hot dang that was great. I liked 3 points that he made the most. Muta was “effortlessly cool.” His moves had an “athletic snap.” That describes Muta’s exclusive way he did moves in a nutshell. There was just something neat about it. And of course Gary Hart in general. He was a part of it that had to be there even if he was never the centerpiece. Without him it probably doesn’t work initially.
What was the deal at Halloween Havoc 89 seriously? Was the fire at the beginning rigged? Dumb question perhaps but if it was rigged it was random and I’ve never heard anybody take credit for the idea. That’s 1 of those ideas that a million people would take credit for over the years it seems like, similar to The Gladiators. Of course if it wasn’t rigged it’s a miracle a bunch of other things didn’t happen.
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3 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:
Again that argument would hold some weight if the evidence supported it, but what you said is demonstrably false. Fans still popped well for Sting for the majority of 98, like the Nitro he joined the Wolfpack, the Sting/Goldberg match in September and the TV ratings for 1998 and around 1/2 of 1999 were much stronger than 1997. That just wouldn’t have been the case if the result of Starrcade had such a negative effect on the wider fan base. It doesn’t seem like you can seperate creative that you personally did not enjoy vs the actual effect that creative had on the business.
https://www.wwe.com/videos/sting-joins-the-nwo-wolfpac-nitro-june-1-1998
All the people in the lower bowl area jumping up and down when he clotheslines don’t seem to be indicative of a character that had been killed because of a botched finish in the same building 5/6 months prior.
Trying to hard. Fans popped for Hogan the night he came back as the Hulkster to but...you know
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4 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:
If you are going to suggest the finish of the match killed the company, then it only makes sense to see if any other option would’ve avoided that same fate.Sting winning like planned would have avoided the same fate, especially if we’re assuming that everybody would have just got along and none of this had anything to do with anything but bare bones booking.
4 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:But I guess if we are using dirt sheet rumours of the time, Hogan could’ve gotten his win back over Yoko at Super Brawl 8 as part of a reformed Hart Foundation instead of running back Hogan/Sting.
And how on earth were those matches “out there by design”? Just because the dirt sheets/RSPW tried to wish it into existence it doesn’t make it “out there”. Sting/Raven had 0 on camera interaction to that point, and would make no sense in the context of the company at the time, unless the idea is to feed Raven to Sting. A rushed Hart/Sting feud wouldn’t have helped either party involved either. Sting either drops the title in his first program after winning, or Hart loses his first crack as a baby face (against another face in his new company), or you decide to do a screwy finish to protect both guys (which would be ironic if that would be your preference ironic given the topic).
Ok forget the Raven match. That still leaves 3. Scott Hall because he won WW3, Flair because that was the plan for his return originally, and Hart which had been a dream match for people for forever.
4 hours ago, Thunder Down Under said:The rest is just nonsensical hate for Hogan, which somehow assumes that Kevin Nash and Raven knew of the issues with the execution of the finish in advance, which is just laughable. Would the rest of the boys still have been “all in” if Nick Patrick had’ve done a proper fast count/Bret had a working mic when restarting?
Everybody knew what was going on in that building come on.
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4 hours ago, EVA said:
As bad as the BS was in that match, I actually don’t think that’s what killed Sting.
Like, today, when most people remember Mick Foley winning the WWF title, they don’t remember that he only won it because Austin ran in and basically beat The Rock for him. They just remember that it’s awesome Foley won.
The live crowd at Starrcade certainly didn’t seem bothered that Sting and Bret Hart basically screwed Hogan out of the title. They were just psyched to see Sting win, and maybe even for Hogan to have gotten some of his own medicine. Sting could’ve been fine after that! What killed Sting was everything that came after.
Whew I don’t know what show you were watching. That finish was a heartbreak and an insult even. You could say it killed Sting after I guess...the night after when they did a rematch that was 1 of the worst Monday main events of all time. The crowd was dead silent the whole time. Sting never actually had Hogan beat like Mankind had The Rock beat before he was hit with the chair. That’s why that win was acceptable.
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I don’t know why you’re hung up what the next draw would have been. They had the 3 good enough matches already that I already said. 4 if you count Raven. When I used him as an example of another match earlier it was because the dirt sheets were saying he was going to feud with Sting for a whole second. Those matches were out there by design to headline a secondary ppv or 2 until they came up with the next big plan.
They didn’t even need to have an immediate plan. They needed to finish the plan they had that they built up for 2 years. To halfway justify them not doing that because there was no giant 2 year plan up next is just dumb.
Also about the crap rest of Starrcade. Yeah it definitely was that but that was Hogan’s fault to. He wussed out, so then Nash wussed out, so then Raven wussed out. We were out 3 matches that were supposed to be on the biggest show in the company’s history. Dean Malenko tried to wuss out to if you remember and Eric Bischoff’s explanation there is the biggest joke...had to put his foot down he said. Yeah that really showed everybody not getting
Spoilercucked
4 times. Only 3. Anyway that was all Hogan’s fault because none of those other guys will admit it, but they were all in with WCW back then. They had their suspicions yeah but they were all in until Hogan did what he did. That’s when they said fuck this in their hearts even though they didn’t say with their mouths right yet.
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I’m so behind on everything. I just learned about Muta’s last match. I wouldn’t have guessed that they would have went all the way back to Sting and Kabuki but it’s cool as heck that they did. I don’t know how the work rate measured up but I wouldn’t doubt that it was 5 stars in the farewell payoff department.
I wish we could get some kind of shoot or something with Muta and Sting. They wrestled each other in their 1989 feud more than they did Flair, who is the one everybody associates with their beginning. They really never quit feuding kind of like Sting and Flair. Whenever one of them showed up in the other one’s town it was to wrestle him.
WCW Starrcade 1997: 25 years later. The start of the end for WCW.
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
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One more and I’ll stop lol
Starts his answer with ...um
And the answer is that he doesn’t remember, which is back to normal. Then nobody says this but just watch what happens and tell me if I’m crazy or not. Patrick implied Eric or Hogan would straight fire him if he did it wrong. Then adds that Sting has pull of his own, without implying so much that it would be to have him fired. That’s where Eric cuts him off because he didn’t like him merely suggesting anybody had any pull unless it was directly from him or Hogan. No he didn’t say that, no I can’t prove it, but how else can you explain it.