Go2Sleep
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Posts posted by Go2Sleep
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I watched the show last year when I was re-watching the Austin era (literally every Raw, SD and ppv from Survivor Series 97 through 1999), so that's one non-morbid reason someone might watch the show. Still, I was dreading it going in, and didn't feel any better after watching it or the Owen tribute Raw. And good luck editing it, after it happens, you can tell everybody else on the show is affected by it. There's at least two backstage promos where he's mentioned, The Rock makes a tribute to him mid-match, and the Union/Corporate Ministry match is just unsettling as fuck because you can tell during the long announcer silence when they got the news.
Anyway, since I did watch all of 1999 WWF, I find the Kane/Jericho discussion much more interesting. Kane had the surprisingly good WM match with HHH and some fun tags with X-Pac (w/Chyna vs. X-pac/HHH at SVDM and w/ X-Pac vs. Taker/Show at Summer Slam are the most notable). He did also have some terrible matches with Show (the KOTR match was particularly dire). Jericho really had nothing to show in the ring. His promos and character work were great, but his only big feuds were Road Dogg and Chyna. The Armageddon match against Chyna is way better than it should've been, but still hard to say it was better than average. It comes down to how much your weighting promos and gimmicks in your analysis. If you favor them heavily, then Jericho probably still edges out Kane as he was much easier to watch week to week. If it's in-ring only, no doubt Kane had better matches (and worse matches) than Jericho, so while both guys didn't have much to write home about, Kane would get the nod there I think.
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Do you have any reason to say they're losing heat, or did you just run out of things to blame on the Outlaws?
They're getting cheered less because more people are cheering for the Outlaws who should be the heels?
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Killed the Rhodes? One is as old as the Outlaws, the other will never be as over as he is now. It's not like anybody was derailed or anything.
Yeah, they were on a pretty good roll before the Outlaws showed up. Even if they were dropping a few too many non-title matches, they were at least having good matches and were over. Now the Rhodes Bros are having their worst matches as a team and are losing heat because they're constantly jobbing to a team that hasn't been relevant since 1999 and working as tweeners for no discernible reason. It was fun to see the Outlaws on Old School Raw where they belong, but whoever thinks it's a good idea to have these guys holding the straps and working 10+ minute matches every week needs their head examined.
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In agreement that this was a very good show top to bottom.
The opening tag was a great story-telling match. Ambrose and Reigns being casually dominant while they try to psych each other out was so cool. Rollins was great on commentary, don't know if his line about 3MB made the airing of if that was app filler. It's interesting how he's transitioned into being the leader when Ambrose was clearly in that position last year.
The Shield/Wyatt dueling promos continue to rule. Best WWE feud in forever. So simple, but so great. I hope they just keep talking and beating jobber teams and don't touch before the ppv.
Good promo from Titus. I hope he can find a spot on this deep roster. Surprisingly inspired attack from Young as well afterwards. I still don't have faith in creative to do much for these guys after their feud, but they're at least making a strong case for deserving some more tv time.
Bryan/Cesaro was solid. They definitely could do better, but this was a fun counter-based match with each guy showing some new variations of trademark spots. Great looking finish, and Cesaro's reaction afterwards was a beautiful, subtle way to put over how hard-fought the match was.
Bray/Goldust was good and did what it needed to do. Bray is really good at working his character into his matches, and Goldust was digging deep into his bag of tricks to keep up with him.
Sheamus/Ryback was a poor man's version Sheamus/Show, but a decent amount of fun. Definitely the best thing Ryback has done since bullying backstage employees.
Orton/Christian was one of their lesser matches, but they have good chemistry. Loved the app filler/unaired segment where Orton cheap heats the shit out of Des Moines. Find that if you didn't see it, it was almost Angle-esque. I also ironically like the fact that these constantly use the springboard counter finish. It's a great little running joke. When will Christian ever learn?
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I'm not sure why anyone would knock HHH for his talent assessment. Sheamus was a good find, all the Shield guys came in under his watch, as did Cesaro and the Wyatts. Not sure if Bryan was his pickup or not, he might've been there a little before HHH was in charge. Even if he can't take credit for Bryan, he still has a stellar hit/miss ratio.
Why people would complain about that instead of the Outlaws having tag title reign in 2014 that lasted more than a week and effectively killed the Rhodes brothers is beyond me.
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Naomi is like the diva version of Shelton Benjamin. Great athlete capable of doing big spots, but pretty botch-tastic and doesn't have a good sense of timing or laying out a decent match around the big spots. Her personality on Total Divas doesn't come across as well in the "WWE universe" either, although that's probably more of a writing thing. I hear Aksana is notoriously bad, so I won't take that match into consideration, but I haven't seen anything from her that compares to the AJ/Kaitlyn ppv matches from last summer.
I don't wanna sound too down on Naomi, though. I think she has potential and I'm for her getting chances, but she's not on AJ's level right now imo.
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Ignoring Foley who is already in, it probably should be Heyman. Not just for founding ECW, but also his work as a manager in WCW and WWE.
Realistically, it will be RVD.
I'm sure Heyman, RVD, Sabu, and The Dudleys will all get in eventually. Not as sure about Sandman, Dreamer, Richards, and Raven, but they're possible.
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I wanna know why that person with the long rant on Punk has so much against AJ. It sounds like more than just spillover from being bitter towards Punk. Because AJ is clearly the best diva on the roster by a lot right now. The Total Divas "pipebomb" promo was probably a cutesy little insider nod, but I don't see anyone that would be challenging her reign as champion regardless of who she's dating. I'm almost thinking it was a diva who leaked it, or at least someone who has strong ties to one of the other divas. Tyson Kidd maybe?
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Don't forget Antonio Cesaro swinging him in to the guardrail.
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* Randy Orton beat Christian in the main event. Christian came off the ropes and Orton caught him with a RKO for the win.
Vintage Orton/Christian match!
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Bryan v. Orton is definitely being slept on. These two click the way Orton and Christian clicked. Bryan has reached a point where he is consistently delivering matches of the year on random inconsequential raws. We're all spoiled.
How many wrestlers on the roster have ever had a match as good as Bryan v. Orton from last night? That could actually be a fun thread.
I'll take a stab:
Alberto Del Rio (Big Show LMS or Ziggler double turn match at Payback)
Antonio Cesaro (Ignoring indy work, at least his segment of the Bryan gauntlet)
Big Show (ADR LMS, Mayweather)
Bray Wyatt (Rumble vs. Bryan)
Brock Lesnar (Eddie, Taker HIAC, Benoit, Rey, Cena, take your pick)
Christian (Some of the Orton matches, ECW work, and I personally love the first TLC)
CM Punk (Does he still count? Lesnar, Rey, Hardy, Cena)
Dean Ambrose (various 6 mans)
Dolph Ziggler (vs. ADR at Payback)
John Cena (Umaga, Orton, Michaels, Punk, Lesnar, take your pick)
Rey Mysterio (Eddie, Jericho, Punk, countless WCW cruiser matches)
Roman Reigns (various 6 mans)
Ryback (Shield debut TLC)
Seth Rollins (various 6 mans, a couple singles with Bryan)
Sheamus (HHH at Extreme Rules 2010, Bryan 2/3 falls)
HHH (Rock IM, Foley, Michaels, Orton LMS, take your pick)
Taker (Foley, Michaels, Lesnar, Angle)
Usos (w/Bryan vs. Shield on SD last year)
William Regal (Benoit, Finlay, NXT work)
Orton/Bryan was quite good, but it's no lock for MOTY or anything. Lots of other guys on the roster have had MOTYC level matches, though.
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We need more Ambrose/Bray dueling promos. I feel like I should pay to see the Shield/Wyatts match. That's gonna be so great.
Props to Bryan for getting something out of Orton in their match. The first few minutes were kinda bad and I really thought Orton was gonna drag Bryan to his level, but then Bryan did that killer leg work sequence and woke Orton from his 6-month coma. We actually did see a little "vintage Orton" in that match. Make no mistake, it would still be terrible for Orton to headline Mania and a program with Batista is still DOA, but hopefully he can settle back into his solid upper midcard role he has held down so well in the past. Not crazy about Kane getting involved, hopefully that's a red herring.
Some other weird stuff on this show too. Aksana's knee drop, Big E hardway-ing another Shield guy, Cody's moonsault (with really odd camera angles), Miz's thing, Lawler's nonsensical interaction with Barrett, Emma's debut for someone who doesn't follow NXT... A lot of WTF moments for one show.
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A couple cross posts from squash matches. Smackdown had some quality beatdowns in the mid 2000s.
That chair shot... That ring post bump...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwzDeLbRe-A
JBL warming up for an I Quit match.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xejsz1_sd-19-05-05-jbl-vs-scotty-2-hotty_sport?search_algo=1
Edit: Oh man, I forgot how crazy this one was. Here's a beatdown that's as much psychological as it is physical. God damn Brock Lesnar rules.
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I think Harper might be a top five wrestler on the roster right now.
He's definitely in my top 5. It's a deep roster, but only Bryan and Lesnar are undeniably better, and I'd let Cena skate on reputation too. Depends how you rank Cesaro, Rollins, Goldust, Christian, etc. I'm just glad people are noticing Luke Harper, because I know I was on the front end of that bandwagon.
Anyway, on SD, the Shield/Wyatt promos are basically the essence of pro wrestling. It really does feel like an epic clash in the making. Rollins mic work was really good during the Shield segment as the voice of reason. I also loved his "pumped up" mannerisms after the Wyatts' promo. Everyone in a mile radius should fear for their safety, but none of those 6 should be scared in the slightest. God I can't wait for that match.
Cesaro/Ziggler was solid. I really want Cesaro to get a post-Mania push, maybe win MITB this year.
When I saw Christian/Swagger, I remembered that we're about at the 4 year anniversary of their excellent ECW match where it looked like Swagger was gonna be huge. Times have changed, but these two still have excellent chemistry and Christian didn't waste a second taking an insane bump. Definitely the best Swagger match in some time.
The PTP break up would be inspiring if I had any confidence that either guy is gonna last more than 2 months in singles. Darren looks like he'll be hitting the ME/Superstars circuit in about a month, and it's hard to imagine Titus getting farther than an IC program with Langston (and losing). Good showing from Titus here, though, and Darren's busted lip helped things a lot.
The 6-man main was good. I love it when WWE teams do the Japan formula finish where the obvious ace tags the obvious weak link and it's only a matter of time before the #1 or 2 guy on the other team puts him away. Daniel Bryan is the hottest of hot tags. Tangentially related, I wish we could go back in time and have Reigns get the superman punch over as his main finisher. It looks way better than his spear (which is overdone as is), but he's stuck with the spear now thanks to Survivor Series.
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I'd also like to see a southern brawling team of Stan Hansen and Bradshaw.
Daniel Bryan could have a lot of great potential partners. I'd like to see him with Regal or Finlay (or Benoit if you're ok with that)
Come to think of it, it's too bad Regal and Finlay spent most of their careers fighting each other (as awesome as it was) instead of making a badass Euro-shoot team. I think they were briefly aligned in Booker T's stable in 2006, but can you imagine late 90s Finlay and a sober Regal with more of a Wade Barrett gimmick than a blue blood gimmick?
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Right now, I'd love a Christian/Goldust tag team. Feel-good old guys who can still go, and either one can be the FIP or the hot tag.
Assuming all guys are at their peak, all-time, I'd want Vader/Lesnar for my dominating heels, Styles/Bourne as my babyface flyers, and Kobashi/Joe as badass faces (preferably in an American promotion so I can see some mid-90s Kobashi doing hot tag sequences).
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Hopefully a spot for a face-turned Antonio Cesaro.
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The biggest thing WWE does to ruin big heels is forcing them to work the same formula match as any other face. They go from dominating one week, to eating 90% of the offense in their first match as a face. Nobody wants to cheer a guy who always gets beat up. Watch Austin's run when he was massively over in 98... He's getting almost 50% of the offense in his matches, and probably the majority of the offense in some (like the Foley matches). People want to cheer for guys who can kick ass, not someone who's gonna be selling 90% of the match against David Otunga.
I guarantee Roman's heat will dwindle if he starts being on the receiving end of a lot of "chinlock, elbow, elbow, hair pull, chinlock" spots.
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Huh, interesting stuff about Punk. I knew his contract was coming up, but I didn't realize it was this contentious.
I really like the addition of Cesaro and Christian to the chamber. If we had motivated Orton, this would easily be the best chamber lineup ever, but he has to have at least one ppv main this title reign that isn't total dogshit, right?
Shield vs. Wyatts should be a ton of fun too.
EC should be a fun distraction before the reality of Batista in the WM main sets in.
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You guys are crazy, Nattie adds a lot to the show. Someone has to take wrestling seriously on there. Plus her constant emasculation of Tyson Kidd is hilarious. Her reality tv character may not be likable (but who is on that show outside of Brie and Naomi), but taking her off would bring it down a whole lot. None of the other girls' characters work without Nattie as the "normal" one. Her obnoxious passive-aggressiveness which leads to her getting trolled by the other divas and management is just the icing on the cake.
Jojo, on the other hand, won't be missed. She was barely on tv other than the episodes with Sebastian and the one where she exposed Justin Gabriel as a monumental creeper. I was hoping AJ would get on it, don't know much about Summer.
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I didn't think Rusev was supposed to be a full-timer yet. I thought he just won an NXT battle royal or something to get the Rumble spot. I think that's how Bo Dallas got in last year.
The opening promo wasn't HHH's best troll work. No subtlety at all. Steph was pretty good, though. I liked how she had to direct the crowd to get their shit together with their chants to make the segment work. I'm also glad Rollins' biggest fuck-up was stepping on an invisible banana peel during their entrance instead of one of his big moves. Also liked how it was right on the edge of the frame so that it didn't call a lot of attention away from the segment, but was clear enough for everyone to have a good laugh.
The Batista/Orton segment was just sad really. The wide shot of Batista glaring at the hard camera waiting for the boos to pass with a "Please Leave Batista" sign in the background pretty much summed it up. Batista has no idea what to do with these reactions. Lesnar appearing saved the segment but didn't do the other two any favors by making them look small. I mean, Orton's stock couldn't be any lower at this point and ducking Lesnar is within his character, so whatever, but you'd think they'd at least write Batista to get in Lesnar's face or something to look courageous and tough. They both just stood there looking like "I hope Hunter picks the other guy."
Lesnar could beat up midcarders every week and I'd never get tired of it. Thank god for Lil' Naitch saving that fan from Brock's crazy chair toss.
Main event was good despite the finish. Been too long since we've seen a nice Bryan/Rollins hot tag sequence. I'd be way down for a Wyatts/Shield 6-man at Mania.
I'm guessing the re-writes involve getting the belt off Orton at the Chamber and setting up a more important match for Bryan. Bryan/Batista isn't ideal, but it might be the only way out of their pickle right now. Barring some embarrassing retcon where Batista loses his #1 contenders spot before Mania, we're going to have to deal with him in the title match, so why not just channel both guys' intense reactions in the right direction? At least Bryan/HHH would make some storyline sense if they keep him away from the title, although it wouldn't help Batista's "face that everyone hates" problem. Punk/Sheamus would be a fine "we don't know what to do with these guys" match. Cena/Bray looks like it will still happen regardless. Don't really know where that would leave Orton, but who cares honestly? He barely deserves to win the pre-show battle royal at this point.
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Watched Bray vs.Bryan. That was a great match. It's easily the best Bray has looked and showed he could really hang. Makes me excited for him vs. Cena at WM.
The odd thing is Cena's recent performance is what makes me want to see that match less. Maybe he's earned some slack because he's John Cena and busted his ass for the last 12 years, but after thinking about it some more, he was every bit as awful as Orton last night. That horrible finisher exchange stuck out, but there was absolutely no effort from either guy to build a coherent story throughout the match. Not just in the match itself, but in regards to the build up with Orton attacking Cena's father yet again. I mean opening with a fucking headlock sequence in a blood feud in 2014... Come on, where's that "never give up" attitude, Cena? Over the last 12 years, John Cena has rightfully earned a reputation of being one of the hardest-working, most professional company men WWE has ever had. Last night Cena was decidedly lazy and unprofessional, and it was very disappointing as a long-time fan of his. Hopefully it was just an aberration.
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The Rumble got off to a great start with Bray/Bryan. That was a legit MOTYC and the easy frontrunner for now. The match structure and spot ideas seemed like they were all Bryan, but Bray really stepped up and held his own in there. His timing was great, he was in good position for Bryan's moves and delivered all of his own moves perfectly. Definitely looked like he belonged in a high end match. And if you told me 3 years ago that Husky Harris would be in a ppv match getting "This is awesome" chants, I would've thought you were crazy. While there will be plenty of time for bemoaning the misery of being a Daniel Bryan fan, I am quite happy for Bray getting a big moment here.
The Show/Lesnar post-match went on way too long, but the pre-match and all 2 minutes of the actual match were great. Lesnar getting in with a quick sucker punch, then taking Show down with ease and going to the G&P was beautiful. He also ate the fuck out the KO punch during Show's comeback. Looked like he was straining a little bit more with the F5 than he was in 2003, but he still hit it nicely. Also, how much do you think Show hated hearing the match layout from the agent? "So, we're thinking you need to take about, oh... 100 chair shots from a guy who is notoriously stiff and has been bumping like a freak the past two weeks to get you over... This is the only time we're giving him to get any heat on you..."
Anyway, at this point, I'm thinking we're on pace for an all-time great ppv. Excellent MOTYC level opener, decent (if not long) heat grab for Lesnar, and Bryan jobbing to set up a triumphant return later... Well, you know what happens.
Cena and Orton had no chance to get over in their match and they both knew it. You can tell they gave up after about 30 seconds. Terrible performance by Orton who has no business making to Mania with the strap(s). I've been a big defender of Orton in the past (and this by no means invalidates his previous good works), but he has been truly abysmal since HIAC. barring the one good Raw match with Bryan. Not one of his ppv matches since then has had an ounce of heat and two of them feature the crowd actively shitting on it. He's booked terribly and is beyond mailing it in inside the ring. Cena wasn't particularly good here either, but I can't blame him for not trying. The crowd wasn't having any of it, right or wrong. Going to the Rock/Cena MOTY-winning formula of no-transition finisher exchanges was the diarrhetic icing on this shit sundae.
The Rumble was pretty much what I expected. Solid stuff as usual for the early stages, and the overall impression would be determined by Bryan winning or not. Reigns was a house of fire, and most of the Shield stuff was pretty good. Sheamus looked solid in his return. Nash gingerly lowering himself to the floor and still clutching at his knee when he touched was sickly hilarious. Kofi's jump was amazing. That Rusev guy didn't look half bad, way better than Bo Dallas at least. Of course, the lasting memory was the crowd's vile hatred of Batista. I knew people would turn on him eventually if he got pushed over Bryan, but I didn't think it would be undeniable by his second appearance. I never wanted to see Batista back, now he's immediately my least favorite guy on the roster, below the Miz and Curtis Axel.
Overall, I'm glad we got Bray/Bryan and the Lesnar/Show bit was good until the second bell, but let's just say I'm not as enthused about my Wrestlemania ticket purchase as I was 3 months ago... After tonight, they have to at least contemplate Bryan/Taker for something to put on last. Batista/Orton for the title will be a Lesnar/Goldberg clusterfuck at best. There can't be anybody who seriously thinks running that match in front of a Mania crowd is a good idea, especially after the Rumble. I know I personally will partake in every effort to make the DVD-editing guy earn his paycheck if that's actually the main.
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Kinda wonder if Miz has backstage heat for something. He looked like the most impotent babyface ever in that segment. "You're not strong enough to pull this down..." Ouch. Then you had Matthews making the "But do you really think Miz can win?" comment later during some idle banter about the Rumble.
Smackdown Spoilers for 2/7/14
in WWE PROGRAMMING
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Don't forget this one: