Go2Sleep
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Posts posted by Go2Sleep
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They're pretty much being forced into making Batista a heel, but if they think they're going to make Orton a face and save the heat for this match, they're in for a nasty surprise on April 6th. I don't believe the powers that be are that dense, however. They're probably just gonna try to play it like HHH/Cena at 22, rolling with the natural reactions but not changing characters too much.
They'd really be best served to just get this match over with and let Batista work as a heel in the midcard after Mania. They can do a 1-day reign for Dave if that "guaranteed Mania title win" thing is actually true. The pop for him losing the next night on Raw would make Ziggler's cash-in last year look like Rey entering the 2014 Rumble.
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One of my best friends tried to watch it Monday morning but he felt sick to his stomach when he got to the Mark Henry & D'Lo Brown tag match.
That was the curtain jerk match. Am I missing something here, because it seems like if he felt that strongly at this point, he would've never bothered with the show.
As most people have said, it wasn't a good ppv even if you don't take Owen into account. The Kane/X-Pac vs. D-Lo/Henry opener was forgettable. Holly vs. Snow was alright, your standard attitude arena hardcore brawl. Holly was pretty fun as he started his "Big Shot" gimmick. Owen was scheduled to be in the third match, and there's a long uncomfortable pause here as you'd expect. The next 3 matches (Val Venis and Nicole Bass vs. Jeff Jarrett and Debra; Road Dogg vs. Billy Gunn; Union vs. Corporate Ministry 8-man) were all noticeably affected by the tragedy, but didn't have much of a chance of being good regardless. That's a terrible lineup any way you slice it. After the 8-man, JR and King had to deliver the bad news. Rock/HHH was decent all things considered, those two had really good chemistry. Austin/Taker sucked, definitely one of Austin's worst efforts from this time frame. These two had a 10-minute match on Raw a couple weeks later (the week before Vince was revealed as the greater power) that ended in a DQ, but smoked this one. This was a poorly laid out match in the worst environment imaginable and had a shitty ending on top of everything.
Sadly, the Owen tragedy is the only notable thing about this show. If you wanna watch a decent ppv from peak attitude in 1999, stick with St. Valentine's Day Massacre, Backlash, or Fully Loaded.
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On the Taker/Lesnar front, how would people feel about Lesnar destroying Taker, but getting a DQ loss? No way should Brock end the streak, but they're in a tough spot with him for this feud. They've got his credibility back up after a couple unnecessary losses, but dropping a clean fall here would be a major setback (even if it is UT at Mania). I think we can all agree someone from the new generation needs to get a fall on Lesnar, but it means less and less with each established guy that has already beaten him.
Also I don't think Taker has ever beaten Lesnar, has he? They had a no contest brawl in their first meeting, Lesnar won clean in HIAC, and won again with some shenanigans in the biker chain match. I even saw a random tag from 03 where Lesnar and Cena beat Angle and Taker the other week. Maybe Taker got a random SD win back, I'm not sure.
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Roman/Bray wasn't nearly as bad as the crowd would make you think, although it was a far cry from 6-man as well. The best part were the Rollins and Ambrose saves that really made me want to see the feud continue with Shield progressing more towards total faces as a unit. The biggest problem with the match itself is that it was just too long and both guys were stuck doing a lot of filler between their cool slugfest spots. Also validates my post from "WWE turning heels into intolerable babyfaces."
I guarantee Roman's heat will dwindle if he starts being on the receiving end of a lot of "chinlock, elbow, elbow, hair pull, chinlock" spots.
When will they ever learn?
Sheamus/Christian was good, but nowhere near their SD match. The commentary for this and Etor/Cesaro was absolutely brutal.
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I'm having a hard time deciding what match Sheamus should be in. Match quality wise I hope Cesaro. Could be Del Rio though. Guess that is what I will go with
Del Rio vs Sheamus
Please god no... Summer of 2012 gave us enough of that matchup to last several lifetimes.
I think Sheamus and Cesaro have the talent to pull off a double-turn match, which could be a great launching point for Cesaro as a face, and Sheamus is a bit stagnant character-wise at the moment.
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Michael Cole saying "I can't wait to read Twitter during the commercial break" was the funniest thing I've heard on WWE tv in some time.
I don't want Cena to be hurt (and it sounds like he isn't), but Shield/Wyatts TLC would totally save that card.
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Honestly, I don't think there's ever been a more disappointing gimmick than HIAC. On paper, it's a can't-miss concept: you get all the hate and violence of a cage match without the excessively claustrophobic feel cage matches can have. But I don't there's been a single HIAC match that's come close to living up to the gimmick's potential.
I'd argue that Taker/Foley and Taker/Lesnar definitely upheld the gimmick. Taker/Foley were only outside the cage because they started there, and was such and impressive spectacle it defined the match forever. Taker/Lesnar was plenty bloody, violent, hate-filled, and stayed inside from start to finish if that's really important to you.
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This wasn't too bad of a show. The 2 money matches exceeded expectations, and the bad booking was totally expected this time around, so there wasn't as much sting to it.
Big E/Swagger is the match that got lost in the fold. Really solid effort from both guys. Big E got some good stuff in, Swagger joined the "Hard-wayed by Big E" club, and the finishing stretch had believable moments for both guys. Glad to see E retain. Even if there's a few guys in front of him now, there's no reason to forget him. Wonder if he'll get Cesaro for Mania.
Tag title match was ok. Not surprised by the Outlaws win, and it looks like they'll give the Usos a big rub at Mania. Nothing too bad here.
Darren/Titus was very disappointing after how well they built the match. Darren needs to find some permanent charisma before he's a permanent fixture on Main Event/Superstars. Titus is way down the list right now, but hopefully he can find a way to stay relevant.
Shield/Wyatts was every bit as great as advertised and if this was indeed it for the Shield, I tip my hat to them for their amazing run. I think it's neat how their bookend matches (TLC 2012 and here) are probably their two best, and this was a great transition to the Wyatts being the new top dogs in the 6 man game. Every guy got to show a lot here, the match layout was pretty much perfect, and the crowd paying respect to the great build made it truly special. Rowan looked as good as ever as an immovable object, Ambrose looked legit crazy throughout, Harper and Rollins tore it up in the workrate department, Bray continued to shine in his role, and Roman delivered with an epic full face turn performance. There was nary a dull moment in the match, and everything just flowed seamlessly. Easy MOTY front-runner to this point in my book.
I liked the positioning of the divas match. It was so obviously a last-second throw-in to try to siphon off any leftover energy from the 6-man in an effort to have Batista wrestle in dead silence instead of counter-productive "go away" heat. Only notable aspect was that the plan didn't work.
Batista matches are almost to the point where I feel bad for him. Then I remember his "B List" comments and the fact that Daniel Bryan won't be winning the belt at Mania, and I immediately shake that feeling and laugh at his misery. This was another laugher for Dave, as he managed to get Del Rio more heat than he's had in over a year and got an audible "Bootista" chant. The unappreciated aspect of the 6-man was how much positive heat it got and how much respect was shown for quality booking, so they can't even write this off as a bad crowd. Nobody anywhere wants to see Batista.
The EC lived up to its promise with that lineup. Everybody looked good and Orton finally shook his streak of dogshit ppv mains. Christian had a great performance in particular, playing his character to perfection. He was hitting and moving with tremendous urgency and wreckless abandon, but was felled by a surprise knee, just the hazards of the Chamber. Sheamus was a good house of fire, and the Brouge kick through the glass made up for him being the first out. Great spot there. Cena, Cesaro, and Bryan were all their usual selves, which is always good. I have an irrational amount of love for the crossbody-catapult spot, that was so "wrestling physics" perfect. The german-fireman's carry was sick too. Orton was fine as the weasel here, which the match needed since Christian was bringing it.
The Wyatt and Kane interference held it back from being a super high-end match, but since that wasn't surprising, it didn't hurt as much. Both were pretty egregious and obvious momentum-killing spots, though, so I can't rate it as highly as it should have been in MOTY rankings. My biggest gripe is that there should've been no way for Kane to get into the chamber. The Wyats doing a "lights out" appearance, but going out the door with the lights on was super lame and shits on their gimmick as much as it does the match. Still pretty damn good (and possibly the best Chamber ever), but dwarfed by the 6-man for sure, and probably still behind a couple other matches. You can only do so much with a bad script.
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Another great installment of SD this week. Not really anything in the way of important angles, but a lot of solid in-ring action.
Bryan/Swagger was a really good attitude-style match. It wasn't very long, but they packed a lot of stuff in during the short time frame. Bryan taking that Spanky bump into the post, the hammerlock belly to belly's, and the running knee out of nowhere made it feel pretty special. Bryan/Cesaro was a better technical match and Cesaro's arm work was tight, but I liked the different feel of the Swagger match.
The Big E/Swagger brawl was fine by me. I wouldn't want them to overuse the double trouble smackdown bubble, but it added a nice realistic touch to see two big things happening simultaneously.
The Wyatt 6-man was probably their best one to date. Goldust looked really good, and all members of the Wyatt family got to show a lot. Bray is really owning his gimmick.
Titus/Dolph was a total throwaway match but it wasn't even half bad. Titus looked like he was moving a bit smoother and Dolph was bumping like crazy. I don't see the fuss about Darren on commentary. It wasn't memorable in any way, but it wasn't push-stopping awful like it was made out to be. Cole did a good job leading him when JBL was trying to throw him off.
Christian/Sheamus is a total sleeper MOTYC level match. Not sure why they turned Christian full heel so quickly, but he's totally embracing the desperate side of his character and the crowds are naturally booing him, so I guess it works. Both guys really showed some excellent characterization in this match. Sheamus was a wrecking ball, always moving forward to attack. Christian was hanging on for dear life most of the match and showed a lot of urgency and aggression when he got the advantage. You could nitpick and say why was Sheamus doing a double Irish Curse with the bad arm, but for me, the story of a full-steam-ahead power brawler in his prime versus an overmatched but wily and desperate vet outweighed the bad even though that spot did kind of stick out. I also liked that the match ended on a signature spot instead of a finisher. People want more of that, right? Christian pushing Sheamus off the ropes after the match almost looked like it wasn't supposed to make air, but like the ending of Raw, had that really WCW-vibe where they'd leave on a chaotic cliff hanger. I liked it a lot personally.
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What ridiculous musical act is Hulk going to have to pretend to recognize?
Also, how will he shoehorn Brooke into the show?
Perhaps there is way to kill two birds with one stone...
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How long ago did they move it? Anyone think they were worried about the reaction Bryan would get at 'home' or that the title match would be booed out of the building 2 months in a row? Or both!?!
I doubt that was it if they moved it to jersey (site of last year's post-Mania Raw). It's a smarky northeast crowd that'll give them the same problems. Of course, I don't think there are many places they can go anymore that won't go nuts for Bryan and/or shit on Batista.
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Question for you all (think I might know the answer with the posts in this topic), the 2014 Match of the Year so far is?
Daniel Bryan vs. Bray Wyatt, but we're not even through the 2nd ppv yet, so it's kind of empty at this point.
Pretty fun show overall.
Christian going full heel for his match on a dime was pretty cool. Could've done without the overly long Kane beatdown taking the form of a match, though. A couple chair shots would've accomplished exactly the same thing.
Cena/Cesaro was a good Cena formula match. Would've been better if he got more offense early, though. At some point, it becomes counter-productive to give a guy a lot of offense if you still end up beating him. I actually think Cesaro/Orton was better, but this is definitely worth a watch. Cena's entry to the AA was superb.
Henry/Reigns was solid, but the post-match reactions by the Shield were the highlight. Ambrose's face after the clean pin, Rollins' exaggerated celebrations trolling Ambrose, and then Ambrose doing the gooniest gooning on Henry while Reigns laughed at his impotent rage. I believe that's what's called "doing the little things right."
I didn't watch the Santino/Emma angle in NXT, but are they basically re-enacting the whole thing here? I've heard good things, and goofy Santino romances are usually funny. Still waiting to see Emma have a match.
How quickly has Batista's stock fallen? He went from super-hyped Rumble return/win to 2 minutes of tv time a week if he's lucky. If you did a list of total tv time this week, Batista would be behind Los Matadores, Fandango, and Jinder Mahal. B-List era indeed.
Orton/Sheamus was good up until the finish. It really felt like a struggle neither guy wanted to lose the whole way, especially after the table spot. Orton dodging the knee lift and hitting the powerslam was vintage Orton in the best way. His timing is so underrated. The post match was kind of Nitro-esque, but I liked it. I wish the Shield and Wyatts stayed apart until the ppv, but if they had to touch, this was the best way to do it. Also says a lot about their status that they get to do it simultaneously with all the main eventers (and Christian).
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Sheamus isn't a great promo (hence why he's best when he's a man of few words, just enough to highlight that accent), but no way you can say he's the worst when Alberto Del Rio is still on the roster.
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Thoughts from this show
-You know, I think I kinda missed Sheamus. I didn't really miss him as a character, but he is a walking good match now a days. Sure, his character is balls, but that's more or less all of the E.
I'm not sure why anyone wouldn't like Sheamus. He's been really good in the ring for like 4 years straight now, and I think the complaints about his character are overblown. I think that all stems from being on the wrong end of "18 seconds" then about 6 months of the writers feeding him rejected Jericho material for some reason. When they've let him be a "man of few words" ass-kicker, he's been pretty fun.
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Another great show this week.
6-man was the usual good Shield affair. All 6 guys are looking tremendous these days. I disagree with whoever said Christian is going through the motions. He's definitely booked the weakest, but he's still in there taking big bumps, eating strikes, hitting his old-man-flying offense as well he was pre-injury, and has been inspired in his limited promo time. I don't think anyone's disputing the other 5. It's amazing how Bryan can generate so much heat in such a small amount of time. He was barely in the match but got some insane heat (real heat, not the obviously edited-in SD kind). Only disappointing part was no post-match promo from either the Shield or Wyatts.
The fatal 4-way was a lot better than I expected. Rey really needs to hang 'em up after Mania, it's sad to see how little he does in this type of match these days. Kofi stepped it up here, though, and carried the fast-paced flying and bumping pretty well. Henry's spot at the end was short, but effective. Swagger looked alright too. The Swagger/Rey/Kofi rendition of the triple German spot was one of the better looking ones.
The former PTPs continue to impress in their segments. Titus was great on commentary, it's crazy how far he's come from "make it a win" to one of the best mic guys in the company. Darren looked pretty fired up for a 3-minute match and showed a lot of tight offense and bumping for that time frame. Wonder what Damien Sandow did to get in the doghouse, he's been getting some 2012 Jack Swagger level treatment lately.
Main event was very good. Orton started off a little iffy, but clearly got more into it as the match went on. Cesaro was just great from the get-go, and if this was a dry-run for him as a face, pull the damn trigger. He adapted all of his offense beautifully, especially timing the swing to a big pop, and showed some great new stuff as well. Cesaro also has those little instincts that just scream future star. A couple things I noticed: First was after he took a spill to the floor, a fan patted him on the back and said "we the people," and Cesaro nodded and muttered "we the people" back as if it were firing him up. I think that's where you can see a huge difference between guys with indy backgrounds and guys without. The ones that have it are a lot better at reacting to little audience cues and adapting on the fly. Second, after the match, he let the crowd finish the "we the people" chant. Of course all his excellent offense got legit pops and that finishing run shows he's ready for the big time (if you didn't know that already). Also, Zeb was pretty good here changing it up to more of a face style manager, including encouraging a legit "We the people" chant while Cesaro was in a chinlock.
Also, I should give Orton a little more credit. He still has a great sense of timing and can lay out a damn good action sequence when he wants to. Maybe the backstage reaction he got for his last 3 ppvs was as scathing as it was online, or maybe someone told him he won't be doomed to singles program with Batista at Mania... Whatever it is, he is looking a lot more motivated the last couple of weeks, so good on him for that. His reaction after the loss was perfect too, definite disappointment but with a sense that it was only a non-title on SD so as not to be too wound up.
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It was just a big part of his persona and a unique entrance. Pretending to be modest, hard-working man after 2 years of coming out in nice cars just added to the phony, transparent pandering that made sure he never got over (and in fact had to turn heel again 6 months later because no one was cheering him despite him having his absolute best run of matches ever).
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Didn't help with Del Rio how they did the face turn. He just turned against 3MB for threatening the spanish announce team. No build or anything, he just went from feuding with Orton to face.
I think that part was actually ok. Ricardo was a borderline face already and ADR ran out and destroyed 3MB with some really good looking offense to a big pop. It was surprising but not unbelievable that he would protect his friend from other heels. Losing the cars and getting a pandering "USA USA" gimmick is what did him in.
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"Cesaro" reminds me less of Batista and Goldberg, and more of Lashley. Anyone else remember that 2-week stint where they tried to get that over?
The funny thing about the Orton/HHH pairing is that their LMS was legitimately one of WWE's top matches of the decade, but every other match (and there were quite a few) was mediocre to awful. In the spirit of the omnibus thread, are there any other pairings of wrestlers who have had one truly great match together, and nothing else crossing average (let's say minimum 5 matches)?
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What was with Renee Young and Stephanie wearing like the same dress?
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I think the booking is pointing towards Swagger as a face, with Cesaro as the heel with Zeb.
Which will be soundly rejected by the fans.
That would be beyond awful, but I don't think it will happen. I'm pretty sure Zeb will still turn on Cesaro and side with Swagger because Cesaro is still a Euro. I could easily see Swagger winning the IC, Cesaro losing the chamber, then Zeb immediately dumping him with the angle being "Why did Swagger get so many chances?" Then Cesaro beats Swagger at Mania and Extreme Rules (in a Flag match).
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Not surprised at Cesaro going over Orton. He's heating up and is the only non-established guy in the chamber, makes sense to give him a non-title win. I suspect Orton will go over Sheamus with some shenanigans on Monday to keep Christian from being the only loser. Should also be a good test-run for Cesaro as a face, I wonder how the crowd reacted to that match.
That 6-man looks killer on paper.
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I wonder if this debate would look different if the PPV had one of the best matches of the year on it.
Well, Rock/HHH from the show is probably borderline top 10 for the WWF that year, but believe me that says a lot more about 1999 WWF than the match itself. Holly/Snow hardcore match (went on before Owen) was a fringe match I could see some people getting behind.
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I imagine the gimmick sticks around. One thing all three need is just an angle to really develop. I mean, The Shield's main angle has been "kicking ass all day, every day" but with the exception of them being portrayed as paid muscle every now and then, they haven't had a lot of storyline based stuff. I mean, this Wyatt stuff is great, of course.
I think part of the reason the angle with the Wyatts is working so well is that it's the first real emotional feud The Shield has had. Everything else has just been business for them.
The good thing about the Shield is that there is a lot of mileage left in them as a group, but all 3 would be really good in singles, so it doesn't really matter what happens to them. I don't think WWE can actually make a wrong decision here (how they handle the post-breakup should they go that route is another story).
Reigns is hot right now and rightly so, and people recognize Ambrose's promo skill will keep him in prominent angles for a long time, but I think people are sleeping on how much upward mobility Seth Rollins has if he turns face. I've said it before, but he's everything they wanted Dolph Ziggler to be, except better and without a stupid name.
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Speaking of TNA beatdowns, here's Luke Gallows and a couple other guys giving Sting a beating you'd think would be reserved for someone leaving the company, so that they may adequately sell death.
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WWE Network... It's Here
in WWE NETWORK
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Maybe I'm lucky or I was just watching at 5 am and there was no traffic, but I signed up and jumped right into "This is NXT" with no problems. I only looked at a couple seconds of various ppvs, but they started fine and I was able to jump around.