Go2Sleep
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Posts posted by Go2Sleep
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I think the only guys to go 100% according to plan since the attitude era were Lesnar and Angle. Even though Brock left at the end of his first contract, they got everything they envisioned from him during his time with the company. Depending on how Rollins shakes out, he might join this group.
You could maybe make the case for Orton even though they botched his big face turn. Everyone else has had significant twists and turns.
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What are they gonna do with Crews. He's a freaky talented athlete that they can't PAY me to care about. Biff was WAY more entertaining in a loss than the dude they've invested all of the time and video packages on.
I think tag team is the way to go. See if he can find his Chad Gable.
The other option, and I know this sounds really counter-intuitive, is maybe ship him up to the main roster. Apollo is a legitimately good worker beyond doing cool moves. The problem is NXT is full of good workers, most of which have much stronger personalities. However, on the main roster, nearly everyone has terrible personalities, and just showing up and doing cool shit and having generally decent matches will go a lot farther with the fans than it does in NXT. I mean at worst he could probably fill Titus O'Neill's (RIP) spot pretty effectively, if not be a solid face counterpart to Owens in the IC picture.
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Sting was part of the Wolfpack, while the WM run-in clearly depicted the original anti-WCW NWO that Sting feuded with for its entire existence.
Not that it matters at all obviously and there have been plenty of more nonsensical things that have happened in wrestling history, but let's not pretend there was any internal continuity.
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Oh my God, I just realized how badly I need the Mean Street Posse to do a run-in at Mania and The Undertaker destroys all of them. Each and every last one of them. I'm excited now!
I was gonna say that would only make sense if Shane was the heel, but then I remembered the NWO helped Sting last year so making sense isn't an issue. Fuck it, bring on the MSP and the Ministry. Mideon, Gangrel, and uh... Acolyte Faarooq I guess.
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Seems like there would be a little too much overlap with Dash and Dawson right now, but I wouldn't complain if they teamed.
I think they didn't hype Girard as much because they don't have any immediate plans for him. No reason to go all out, especially with Nakamura and "next week's surprise" coming in. I'm cool with Girard laying low for now, since I have full confidence in the NXT machine to get behind him when the time is right, which is probably going to be this summer or fall.
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The 2002 class was definitely all about Brock Lesnar. He got pushed hard and fast, but was up to the task. If he stuck around, WWE would've been infinitely better off in the late 2000s. Orton was their long-term prospect, as he was pushed very steadily up the card from 02 to 04, only being set back by injury. Cena got pushed pretty hard right out of the box, but they pulled the plug quickly when the crowd wasn't buying him beating Chris Jericho. The rap gimmick saved his life, and eventually he became the guy they had to push just because he was so over. Batista was the "project" who they protected well and struck when the iron was hot to maximize his value despite his limitations (you know the exact opposite of what they've done with Roman).
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As much as I like Jordan and Gable, they badly need to start switching up their match formula from time to time. I'm sure it's more direction than lack of creativity on their part, but their matches might be the most predictable on the roster right now. I'd like to see Gable do some stuff on the hot tag once in a while, see if Jordan can sell at all, find new ways to get to their finisher, etc.
Not everyone can have a flashy debut. I'm fine with Girard and Ciampa starting as jobbers and slowly working their way up. Special debuts won't mean much if everyone gets one. Speaking of, I really want to see a Girard/Ciampa match at some point. Ciampa has been a low-key bright spot since his debut, and Girard looks like he's gonna fit right in.
Poor Neville, coming back in the "remember how promising your future looked a year ago" spot.
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Orton's initial face run was pathetic and he didn't receive this type of backlash.
His turn was ill-advised, but he quickly got dispatched by HHH and languished far from the title picture for a year and a half. The fans never really turned on Orton either, his heat just kind of dwindled away because his turn was booked so poorly. I actually remember him being viewed sympathetically as "another HHH victim" at time. Perhaps most importantly in regards to where 04 Orton contrasts with 16 Reigns, the writers had the sense to turn him heel not long after his heat died.
Was the whole Edge/Matt Hardy deal the first time that the internet and social media influenced the on-air product to a large degree?
I'd say Lesnar/Goldberg, but in that case, both guys were leaving so it didn't really matter. Edge/Matt might have been the first time they changed an angle going forward (for the better I might add).
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That reason would be April to October of 2015.
You could hold that time frame against just about everyone on the main roster. Last year was pretty dire start to finish.
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Seth doesn't seem like the best fit for the charitable obligations they have for their #1 babyface...
Cena will still be around for a while regardless, but has Seth said something like "I hate kids with cancer" that I missed?
He also likes sending dick pics and dating Neo-Nazis. That ain't gonna play with Snickers and Coca-Cola.
Hasn't Orton been associated with stupid shit like that for a good chunk of his career? Provided these aren't recurring/ongoing things, I don't see why this would be an issue.
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I think a guy people are sleeping on when it comes to who could really be "the man" is Seth Rollins. Not the most popular guy around here for some reason, but he's got a good look and definitely knows the WWE main event style. He also stands up for himself and I doubt he'd let himself get written into bad spots like Roman. If he can fully recover from his knee injury, that's probably the best thing that could've happened to him. He'll come back red hot as a face with a lot of ready-made feuds and lots of compatible talent coming up the pipeline.
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That opening segment: WTF
So glad they ditched the Wyatt/Lesnar plan. Brock/Dean can now join the women's match in the "will be good for the right reasons" category.
Sin Cara looks like he quit going to the gym after his recent injury.
Compare and contrast the reaction of HHH beating down Bryan and HHH beating down Roman. For those who were disappointed they didn't get Orton/Batista straight up just for the crowd reaction, this should be an ok consolation prize.
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Unless it's introducing a returning star to set up the Undertaker match.
The promoter award is going to Jeff Jarrett. It all makes sense now.
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Also - Takeover Dallas is starting at 10 PM EST
I wonder if it's going to be a full 3-hour show, or if they're going to follow the Brooklyn/London pattern where they tape the first half to use as a weekly show, and go live on the network later.
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The E/C segment was so awkward and bad. They buried the New Day and the LON, even though seemingly the purpose of the segment was to set up a feud between the two with ND turning face. I guess we all knew it would happen eventually, but Jesus, face ND version 2 is gonna be some seriously awful shit if tonight was any indication. Why hasn't the LON just dissolved and sent those guys on their separate midcard ways yetI wonder how many times they're gonna bring out old stars to try and put New Day in their place. They've gotten one over on Jericho, Rock and Edge/Christian. That same 90s/00s schtick doesn't work anymore but they keep running them out there and none of them are as cool as New Day anymore.
I'm not sure New Day actually got one over on E/C, though. Yeah, and E/C had a couple really bad lines, but they still twisted the knife on Kofi's Jamaican accent and then they rattled off a long list of ways ND was ripping off their act and ND didn't get a response. It certainly wasn't "Billy Gunn KOTR" bad, but I felt it did take the wind out of ND's sails a little bit. Edge's "I'm starting to like you guys" line felt really hollow after all that and ND definitely didn't come out looking better than when they went in.
And even though I really dislike LON and want them to go away forever, they got it way worse than ND. "Hold on, Wade Barrett hasn't gotten to stare at anyone menacingly yet" and Edge's nonchalant burial of Del Rio's WWE run were BRUTAL. It didn't help that the two guys who can't hold their own on the mic had to do most of the talking. Putting Sheamus and Del Rio up against E/C on the mic is like making a high school basketball team play the Warriors.
Edge is in the same league as The Rock, Shawn, and HHH as what I would classify as a "stiff promo." I don't think he's always trying to bury guys out there, but he's so quick on his feet and has such a casual delivery, he ends up really hurting guys from time to time.
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The opening tag was alright. Sasha looked like she really put some effort into her hot tag planning and probably looked as close as she has to NXT Sasha on the main roster. She'll get there. Naomi and Tamina are noticeably worse than Sasha and Becky. This is where the main roster could really use Emma as a competent second tier opponent for the women they want to push. Shit, Emma/Paige as a heel team in the BAD leftovers' spot would've been sweet. Failing that, I'd take Nattie (who has been doing nothing forever) in Emma's spot. Despite her faults, she's a lot better than Naomi and certainly Tamina.
AJ/Jericho was ok. I will say it's probably the best Jericho has actually put someone over in his part time years.
The E/C segment was so awkward and bad. They buried the New Day and the LON, even though seemingly the purpose of the segment was to set up a feud between the two with ND turning face. I guess we all knew it would happen eventually, but Jesus, face ND version 2 is gonna be some seriously awful shit if tonight was any indication. Why hasn't the LON just dissolved and sent those guys on their separate midcard ways yet?
The main event was a good match. It felt like a poor man's Rumble triple threat from last year. I really liked the constant acknowledgements between Dean and Roman when it came to taking down Brock. That part of the match was really well done. The Brock parts were less inspired than the Rumble version, and the end result of course was a real buzzkill. If anyone's wondering what's wrong with Roman, look to his two most recent Feb ppv matches. Really strong matches with well-executed stories, and yet, nobody fucking cares.
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I kinda find myself in the middle on Dean Ambrose. I don't think he's a viable long-term ace in his current form, but he desperately needs a moment before he becomes as non-viable as Ziggler. What if Dean beat HHH at WM, Roman turned the next night, then demolished Ambrose at Extreme Rules? Dean gets something to hang his hat on and can stay afloat for another year or two, and they finally get Roman at the top in a situation that takes the pressure off him somewhat. This would probably play better at a non-WM ppv, but with the roster in the shape it's in, it wouldn't be the worst play.
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Least improved NXT wrestlers is pointless, because it's just gonna be the guys who were already really good. Like and Finn and Sami would be my top two picks but they don't need to change much because they're already great in their roles. And yes, I'll defend Finn as being great in the stoic ace role. He's been top-notch since the Dusty Classic.
I'm kind of surprised Blake and Murphy are getting any kind of love, especially after Dash and Dawson stepped in and filled the "stability heel team" role better in every way the second they got the chance.
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As an aside, has anyone in NXT in the last year made as big a turnaround as Baron Corbin?
Jordan, Gable, Dash, and Dawson all come to mind.
If you consider going from horrible to pretty good in a specific role, Mojo.
If you consider going from solid to elite, Bayley.
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Cole: Why do you think the WWE Universe likes AJ Styles so much?
Jericho: Because he's new...
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It's still crazy that this is a match that's within the realm of the possible now, but Cena vs. Styles?
I'd like to see this match, but I don't think it's worth Cena rushing back from injury. Styles will be around past Mania, and AJ vs. Cena could be a featured match on any ppv. Plus AJ vs. anyone besides Jericho or Miz is a fresh, worthwhile matchup at this point. I'm kinda hoping for Styles/Owens myself.
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Gotta agree with you here Craig. The idea that John Cena's gonna try to save a dismal Wrestlemania card at the expense of his own health is just insane to me in the wake of Bryan's retirement. If he does try to come back, I hope he's put in a tag match or something and doesn't have to go crazy doing stunners off the ropes and that sort of thing.
The sad thing is that there is virtually nothing Cena can do to "save" or even marginally improve WM this year. The tickets are already sold, and there isn't any type of dream match for him to do either, unless you think Cena/Taker 5 years after it should've happened with no streak is still a dream match. Coming back early would be bad for so many reasons.
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I guess I can start my list. Hopefully more good stuff comes along.
- Zayn vs. Nakamura (Dallas)
- American Alpha vs. Revival (The End)
- Revival vs. DIY (Toronto)
- Owens vs. Zayn (Battleground)
- Ibushi vs. Alexander (CWC 8/10)
- Sasha vs. Charlotte (Raw 11/28)
- Owens vs. Zayn (Payback)
- Aries vs. Nakamura (The End)
- Ibushi vs. Perkins (CWC 9/14)
- Revival vs. DIY (Brooklyn)
- Sasha vs. Charlotte (Raw 7/25)
- Gulak vs. ZSJ (CWC 8/24)
- Balor vs. Neville (NXT 3/2)
- Asuka vs. Nia (The End)
- Balor vs. Swann (NXT 3/23)
- Sasha vs. Charlotte (HIAC)
- Gargano vs. Perkins (CWC 8/24)
- Owens vs. Styles (Raw 5/23)
- Owens vs. Rollins (HIAC)
- Bayley vs. Asuka (Brooklyn)
- Kendrick vs. Mendoza (CWC 7/27)
- Bayley vs. Asuka (Dallas)
- Balor vs. Crews (NXT 2/3)
- Owens vs. Jericho vs. Rollins vs. Roman vs. Braun (Raw 11/7)
- Owens vs. Ziggler (Main Event 4/12)
- New Day vs. Jericho/Styles (Raw 3/7)
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They were over and also sucked. The two aren't mutually exclusive. I think their only chance on main roster was going hard with faux-Road Warriors gimmick. Have them squash local jobbers most weeks and brag about how great they are, but then have them cheat like crazy to hang with real teams. I think that could've gotten somewhat over as a heel act. They don't have nearly enough talent to be "just another tag team."
2016 LUCHA UNDERGROUND DISCUSSION
in LUCHA LIBRE
Posted
So I started watching LU about a month ago (from the beginning) and I'm now completely current. I look forward to branching out into a new subforum!
Overall, I just love the the presentation. It's so different than any other wrestling on tv today. It's a much more focused and refined version of WSX, which I was crazy about in 2007. The cinematic "backstage" segments are great, and I love how they just throw suspension of disbelief out the window super early and never look back. You just have to accept that there's a lot of supernatural shit that goes on here. The in-ring parts have more of a "Fight Club" kind of feel, obviously with its own lucha/indy hybrid stylized violence. The main takeaway is that it's just different and after being beat down by WWE for last two years, I'm ready for that.
My quick Season 1 thoughts I'm sure no one cares about because you've all been watching this in real time:
- Puma was a great choice for company ace
- Mil/Fenix casket match was probably MOTY last year
- Angelico's dropkick spot was spot of the decade material
- I liked Mundo throughout the season, but he kicked it up a notch with his heel turn
- Big Ryck turned 3 times in ~30 hours of television (Take that Big Show)
- I totally got the vibe that Alberto did not want to job to Mundo in his last match
- They should've played up Catrina's takeover a little more, but that was great way to end season one
- My favorites were Mil, Puma, Pentagon (who probably top everyone's list), and my underrated fave was Cage
- Only guys I didn't care for were Chavo, Demon, and Daivari
Catching up on Season 2:
I like the new temple setup with Catrina and Mil running things. It's a great way to differentiate the second the season from the first. The seasonal format offers a lot of advantages that wrestling companies don't get. One of the biggest things is giving Ivellise time to heal. I thought their trios team was well built, but Ivellise literally having to wrestle with a broken ankle put a damper on their run. Here, she comes out of the gates firing with the triple threat win and about as respectable a showing against Mil as she could get. The writers were definitely wise to have her supplant Sexy Star as the lead female face. The pop when she finally beats down Catrina will be insane, I'm guessing.
I'm not sure why they had Pentagon break Mil's arm on the first show. It was a cool moment in the heat of things and tells the fans "hey were not gonna fuck around this guy you like this season," but it seemed like maybe too much. Since Mil is now the god-king of the temple, it's not like he really needs an excuse to sit around for weeks at a time not doing anything. I'm sure the eventual Mil/Pentagon match will be badass.
The Gift of the Gods booking is a little erratic thus far, but Cuerno and Fenix are having some good matches out of it. I was hoping for a slower burn with Cuerno eventually manning up to Catrina and Mil. I guess that could still happen. I'm sure some people want more from Cuerno, but for now, he'd be a pretty perfect "first credible guy to stand up to the bully and lose."
The Reyes/Joey Ryan UC story is beyond ridiculous, but it's exactly the kind of thing I love about LU. Plus it's a good way of establishing important characters without needing them to get a lot of wins. They can spend weeks out-stooging each other, and they're still in good position to be credible when the want to pay off the bust or whatever they're going for. Not sure why they're hanging around the temple when it's pretty obvious Cueto's not around, though.
The Dario/Lotus stuff is also delightfully absurd. They could go any number of ways, but it seems like Dario using Matanza to get his temple back, only to have Matanza become even more destructive and worse than Mil Muertes would be a fitting payoff. I do hope they find someone up to the task of playing Matanza, because with all the hype surrounding that character, a lackluster worker in that spot would be damaging to the company.