Blazer
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Posts posted by Blazer
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Lacey being a wrestler was always a bit perplexing to me.
"Hey, getting involved in wrestling led to the death of my dad and four of his brothers...I should totally be in wrestling too!"
Three brothers or four?
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I'm watching a Prime Time Wrestling from April of 1987. Buried at the end is a match from Boston Garden between Judy Martin and Desiree Peterson. I go into this thing thinking, WTF, this is the best they can do to kill some time in the post-Wrestlemania dead period they always had? I really considered fast-forwarding, but I decided to stick it out, and HOLY-SHIT was I glad that I did. This match might be one of the best sleeper gems I've ever come across. No hyperbole.
First of all, Judy Martin beats the living hell out of poor Desiree in this match. It was brutal. Then, Judy pulls out of a damn POWER BOMB. This match is probably early to mid 1985ish. Gorilla and Okerlund were on commentary. Then, Martin takes Peterson and throws her through the ropes HARD and she lands on Okerlund, who oversells it a bit. Peterson back in the ring, and Martin throws her HARDER onto Monsoon, who ends up carrying Martin and putting her back in the ring. Meanwhile, Martin pulls off that old "make a wish" move when she's holding Peterson's legs with Desiree's back on the mat, and Martin kicks her in the vagina. The crowd is stunned, and Gorilla and Okerlund call for the bell.
If this wasn't good enough, the trainwreck goes outside where Martin throws Peterson into the rabid Boston Garden crowd, over the fucking railing, and then pulls her up and launches her back over the railing towards the ring, where Desiree looks like she busts a kidney.
Some more ass whipping inside, and then out of nowhere Desiree ducks a clothesline and pulls out a cross body for the surprise pin. Crowd goes apeshit.
Really, really fun match that surprised the hell out of me. Enjoy and thank me later:
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Yeah, it's not like the men don't get tatted up everytime the wind blows. So she got a tattoo celebrating winning a worked wrestling title. CM Punk got a tattoo 'cause he likes Pepsi. I think the whole thing's a double standard, but what isn't?
Phil got that tat when he was 17 though.
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Nothing is more markish than "workers" having some unwritten code of how to act like a "real worker" and sitting around judging whether someone is conforming to it or not.
Except, maybe injecting who knows what into your body so your pecs pop better when the lights hit you because otherwise some 70 year old perv won't notice you and tell his daughter and her husband what a fucking stud you are.
Fucking marks, man.
BURN IT TO THE GROUND, AJ....OLD MEN, ROID JUNKIES, AND MARKS!!!! BURN BURN BURN!!!!!!
Completely irrelevant, but whatever.
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I have dived into a 1987 Prime Time Wrestling season set. God, I love this. The chemistry between Gorilla and Bobby brings a smile to my face. The buildup to Mania III is just perfect. Angles move at a deliberate enough pace that you can digest them and enjoy them. Two examples. The Hogan/Andre Mania III buildup was dragged out over five weeks of Piper's Pits. Just perfect. Week 1, Hogan's trophy. Week 2, Andre's trophy. Week 3, Jesse and Roddy spar. Week 4, Andre shows up with Heenan to challenge Hogan. Week 5, Hogan accepts, YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!
The Danny Davis stuff is just brilliant. Love the house shows from MSG, MLG, and Boston... This is wrestling the way it was meant to be.
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Blazer, I noticed that you did not call her a mark - my wry quip was not directed to you. I respect your position; once someone calls her a mark ("markshaming"? [copyrighttrademarkpatentpendingprioruse]) that person's argument is voided to me.
Anyway, perhaps counter to my defense of AJ, which really was more of a counterpoint to several folks opinions of her actions (not that I know the gal), is the fact that promoters have sometimes used a title not just to represent the promotion, but to placate a markish but disgruntled worker, or perhaps in lieu of a raise. Sometimes a worker can be too cynical to properly rep a belt. Wrestlers can be green marks, but most promoters are heartless homunculi.
not bitter but jaded,
RAF
I may have called her a mark earlier in the thread (earlier this week), but thanks for your reply.
I still havent watched the match on Youtube with the "contentious" dialogue between AJ and the announcers. Is it entertaining enough to go out of my way to find? I'm wrapped up in a Prime Time 1987 set right now that is highly entertaining, and I'm not sure I can stomach any post 2001-wrestling right now.
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Shawn and Bret had to bust their behind for years and years. AJ basically fell into her position, much of it by luck, some of it based on the lack of women involved. The scenarios are not even comparable. I hate to sound like the seasoned grizzled vet whining about "paying dues", but AJ has walked an easy route, relatively, to where she is today. I wont say its been privileged, but its pretty damn close.
This is a very very good observation. I will say that the point is not that she has been bragging about how she deserves the belt, but the opposite, that she is humbled by honor of it. I assume she realizes the difference in degree of her situation and most other (let alone the examples you gave above) titles. If she doesn't, it really doesn't matter.
- every time you point out a mark, four fingers point back at you, you mark, or something,
RAF
Yep, I'm hesitant to throw the M-word around, and I understand that a lot of people here really enjoy her work. I can respect that. I do find myself agreeing with Dave on this one more than most people, but again that's what makes the world go around. I don't think Meltzer if totally offbase on this one, even if he may be off on other things.
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The Divas' Title was "unified" with the Women's Title so would you include that lineage as well?
P.S. We are all marks.
Indeed. If you're a wrestling fan, you're a mark. Pure and simple.
I mean, good for A.J. The shelf-life of a WWE "diva" is pretty short, comparatively. She might as well enjoy her time in the spotlight while it lasts.
I know I'm in the minority here, but the disconnect with me being a child of the late 70s and early 80s, is that the fans should be marks. I don't expect the workers to be marks once they've made it to the show. I mean, the Divas title has about as much stature as the WBF or XFL championships.
I was really taken back by Meltz going off on the AJ being a mark. I mean, I know it's just the Divas title, but it was a dream of her and she got it done. Why is that so bad? Did he talk about Shawn being a mark for winning the title or anyone else who's acted like it was the biggest accomplishment of their life? I know they are different circumstances and Shawn is far superior, but still. I expected Bryan to shit all over it because he has logic gaps on the level of Hogan, but Meltzer sure surprised me.
Two points, and I'll leave it alone after that...
Shawn and Bret won a title that had a lineage of 30 years, and they were literally on top of the sport/business, which had a pool of hundreds if not thousands of workers. How many female "wrestlers" even exist right now?
Shawn and Bret had to bust their behind for years and years. AJ basically fell into her position, much of it by luck, some of it based on the lack of women involved. The scenarios are not even comparable. I hate to sound like the seasoned grizzled vet whining about "paying dues", but AJ has walked an easy route, relatively, to where she is today. I wont say its been privileged, but its pretty damn close.
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There were several times where he would fight with Bryan over something for like 2 minutes when it was obvious what Bryan meant. (this is where I am wishing I had posted it right away since I am blanking on the exact context).
I don't know the "several times" to which you're referring but the Raw recap got sidetracked for like 3 minutes right off the bat because Bryan kept saying Christian "got beaten down" by the Shield to which Dave kept stressing "a PHANTOM beatdown" because we didn't actually see it. I only remember it because I, too, got extremely annoyed that Dave kept harping on this stupid point.
The only only other instance where I remember him being a goofy stickler is when they were discussing the storied lineage of the WWE Divas title - a title which was unified with the Women's Title which you'd think a "renowned wrestling historian" would remember - and when Bryan brought up stuff like Debra holding it, Dave argued with him that the title only dates back to 2008.
Speaking of which, I tried to avoid commenting on the AJ thing so all I'll say is she's not the first woman to take winning the Women's title very seriously. I remember several of them crying (Kelly, Trish, Beth) when they won so she's hardly the first to take it quite seriously. Yeah, there was the Russo-rific era when they gave it out in Evening Gown matches but they also had the IC title change hands in a Good Housekeeping Match so I'd hardly hold that era against it.
The whole talking point of "It's a fake belt that they give you" is stupid, though. I just listened to Austin's podcast with Kevin Nash and they both talked about how they sat in their hotel rooms staring at the World title after they won it. I'm not saying the prestige is the same but as Bryan tried to point out, if you're a little girl who grew up idolizing Lita and Trish, winning the Divas/Women's belt is pretty much the equivalent.
The Austin and Nash title wins happened back in the day, before David Arquette, the Miz and Vince McMahon has won the world title.
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I wonder when JBL or Lawler will tell A.J. that the championships are just props.
Championships are acknowledgements of a person's effort. If someone received an employee of the month and got the perks that went with it, I bet they'd be just as overjoyed as she is. Half the people on this board would kill for having the recognition of being a fictional champion in a wrestling promotion.
Oh good grief, you are misguided with that thought process. You think effort is rewarded with championships...in other words, the hardest workers get the titles? Not even close.
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Mark, not a mark, whatever. AJ Lee is the best and most compelling character on WWE tv.
And that's probably why I'm not invested in the product anymore.
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Can't take AJ Lee seriously at all. She's a mark.Aren't most people in wrestling marks though? I mean, Shawn Michaels is a big mark. Didn't stop him from being a great performer. I don't think there's a video of Shawn Michaels meeting Lita & breaking down into tears or getting his title wins tattooed on his body but whatever.
That video of AJ meeting Lita, which feels like it was from about three years ago, is precisely what killed AJ in my head. I just don't get it. I'm not into her, can't suspend disbelief in any way, she just doesn't do it for me. Not a woman-hater here. Perhaps its a function of my age, as I'm 40 now. But to me, AJ is that 12-yr old girl who was crying because she met Lita at the aut contograph signing.
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It's sort of a tricky place for WWE to be in. The best way to get Bryan away from Orton for many months (which is necessary in the same way keeping rock and Austin apart in 98 was) is to turn Show on him. They've done it already two times in the last two years in similar situations. I think they have to be playing with everyone's expectations that Show will turn.
They can tease Show turning, but turn someone else instead (Corporate Cody?) and perhaps do an Orton-Show program to portray Orton as a guy who can beat anyone while keeping the champ occupied.
Part of me still wants the Ted Jr. retirement to be an internet-working thing so we end up with Corporate Legacy
Same here - I love it when things wrap up nicely together. That would be cool.
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That was a good match, but otherwise Bigelow's first WCW run was forgettable. Come to think of it, his second WCW run was probably even more forgettable.
And his 2nd WWF run was pretty forgettable except for one match.
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Free Observer Radio today.
Listen to BIG Dave absolutely BURY the Diva's title, AJ Lee, Sable, Debra, Jillian Hall and the collective childhood dream of all female wrestling fans.
It's fun for the whole family!
Not sure if you're being sarcastic or agreeing, but I couldn't agree more with Metlzer on that issue. Can't take AJ Lee seriously at all. She's a mark.
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Curious what the hell everyone did years ago when VHS became obsolete. What did you do with your hundreds of old tapes? Did you make the conversion and then dump gradually? Are there Meltzer's here with Rubbermaid bins of '92 USWA out in the garage?
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Is that Johnny V doing color?
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That was a hell of a finishing sequence.
Do people on this board like Bulldog vs. Hart from December '95? Just as good as Wembley IMO.
Yea, I'm in a Bulldog pimping mood.
Easily just as good. In fact, it has always been one of my favorites. Loved the blood in the match. It worked great. This is a GREAT example.
The IYH one where Bret blades so bad Bulldog's tights are stained pink? That match is so awesome.
Yep....Dec 1995.
Same show that had HHH vs. HOG in the mud pen match, an appearance by Santa Claus, and a Buddy Landel sighting.
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That was a hell of a finishing sequence.
Do people on this board like Bulldog vs. Hart from December '95? Just as good as Wembley IMO.
Yea, I'm in a Bulldog pimping mood.
Easily just as good. In fact, it has always been one of my favorites. Loved the blood in the match. It worked great. This is a GREAT example.
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AWA Tag Team Championship Match
The Midnight Rockers vs. Super Ninja & Ninja Go
AWA 12/6/87This match is buried on the 2nd Shawn Michaels DVD (Heartbreak & Triumph) and is a nice gem.
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Am I crazy or does Gang look a bit like Konan in that pic?
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I don't mean to cross shill, but I just watched Red Tyler vs. Mr. Perfect for my New Generation Era Project, and I think it's worth posting in this directory.
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x71dja_mr-perfect-vs-red-tyler_sport
It's not a beat down or anything particularly violent, it's just a little humorous.
Red Tyler knew how to take a beating. Just saw him get destroyed by the Headshrinkers in a tag match from about a year later. God, the Headshrinkers were ruthless.
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Didn't he get busted for child molestation? Or am I thinking about someone else?
You're thinking of Lawler.
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Billy Gunn fought WWF Tag Team Champion Kane to a no contest at around the 5-minute mark when the Road Dogg and X-Pac came out to help Kane as he was tied upside down in the ring ropes, with Gunn and Road Dogg fighting into the crowd as X-Pac & Kane were jumped from behind by Mark Henry & D-Lo Brown, with Ivory.
The Big Show fought Paul Bearer to a no contest at around the 3-minute mark when Show was jumped by all the members of the Ministry after calling them out.
Debra defeated WWF Women's Champion Sable (w/ Nicole Bass) to win the title via reverse decision in a bra and panties match.
The Big Bossman pinned Test in a nightstick match at 7:03 after hitting Test in the face with the nightstick as Test attempted a sunset flip.
Bradshaw fought Farooq to a no contest in a lumberjack match at around the 2-minute mark when Viscera and Mideon entered the ring and tried to stop the bout, with Farooq and Bradshaw shoving them out of the way until the Big Bossman came out and cooled them down.
Pat Patterson & Gerald Brisco defeated Rodney & Pete Gas at 2:09 when Rodney submitted to Brisco's figure-4 as Gas submitted to Patterson's Boston Crab. Patterson & Brisco used "Real American" as their theme music. Due to pre-match stipulations, Rodney & Gas were forced to leave the WWF.
Jeff Jarrett (w/ WWF Women's Champion Debra) pinned Val Venis at 8:03 by hitting him with Debra's title belt after she slapped Venis in the face.
Ken Shamrock fought Chyna (w/ Triple H) to a no contest when Triple H and Shamrock began fighting before the bout began, with Shamrock dropping Triple H to the mat and hitting a belly to belly suplex on Chyna before storming off, upset that he was driven to the point where he would strike a woman.
WWF World Champion Steve Austin, The Rock, & Vince McMahon defeated the Undertaker, Triple H (w/ Chyna), & Shane McMahon at 4:38 when Austin pinned Shane with the Stunner. Shawn Michaels was the guest referee for the bout.
This show sounds awful.
LOL ...I just looked at those results and thought the same thing myself. Good Grief, why was Big Show booked against Paul Bearer? And Farooq and Bradshaw were wrestling each other? And I have no memory of Austin, Rock and Vince teaming together as faces.
The Old School Questions thread
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
Posted
Ha, never have seen that before! Fun video, although it was hard to watch that mint condition LJN Big John Studd fig get destroyed
What year would this have been? 1991? Albano was certainly talking out of his ass though about Andre being unbeatable with speed and agility.