DMJ
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Posts posted by DMJ
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Yea, I don't see Triple H bringing in Goldberg for a retirement match and (a) having him win the World Championship or (b) feeding him GUNTHER when you have so many other options of heels you can have Goldberg squash with a Spear and a Jackhammer. Even if it might/would be the wrong call to make, there's Logan Paul, Solo Sikoa, Dominik Mysterio, and Chad Gable, let alone guys Waller and Theory. If you want some heel to do the job in a squash, I think the only worse option than GUNTHER would be Drew McIntyre.
I think there's something else to this Jey Uso business, personally. GUNTHER/Goldberg didn't need the title to sell the match.
My guess: the title switch was the easiest option to try to boost interest for Raw on Netflix as, according to some news reports, the viewership has dipped considerably since January. They needed a reminder to fans that Raw is something you "can't miss" and needs to be watched live, which, from the onset of the Netflix/WWE partnership, was always going to be their hardest challenge. When people talk about Netflix trying to make inroads into "live TV," its because *they haven't successfully done it yet.* For all of Netflix's success, they remain the "other" in comparison to traditional TV and cable when it comes to live sports and live events. Even HBO has a decades-old history of live sports from boxing that it has helped use to sell MAX.And that was why getting the Raw rights was such a huge deal and also a gamble. In theory, the WWE has close to 2 million weekly "fixed" viewers that tune in on Monday nights at 8 PM EST to watch the show they've been watching for 30 years. It can air on USA or TNN or SyFy or wherever and that audience is going to find it on that night, at that time, and they're going to tune in. Now, pair that with Netflix's reach of 300 million worldwide and its marketing/promotion machine and the sky is the limit. So...when the reported numbers are showing that its down to about 1.6 million viewers, the question becomes, was that 2 million watching on cable the ceiling or the floor? It also means that, despite its best efforts and having the rights to one of the most established weekly live shows in TV history, as dependable as The Tonight Show but with no reruns, Netflix has not totally shaken the idea of Raw being "just another show" in a library filled with sometimes fantastic but almost always disposable shows. I mean, even great Netflix shows like Bloodline or are almost completely forgotten. When's the last time you had a conversation about Ozark? Netflix has put on some great TV series, no doubt, but the stigma of it being the destination for binge-watching an entire series in 3 days remains, as opposed to a station you "tune into" remains. That is Netflix's identity and Raw doesn't quite fit. The 1.5 million wrestling fans tuning in are okay with that, but nobody else gives a single shit, not even when you put John Cena, Paul Logan, CM Punk, Rhea Ripley, and Cody Rhodes on the same show. And if the show were to really get cold, as it likely will when the NFL season starts, that number could drop even lower. I mean, in the old days, if you're watching Monday Night Football on ESPN or ABC on your traditional TV/cable and the game is a bust, you just have to press a button and now you're watching Raw and you can just switch back during commercials to check the score. With Netflix, you're opening up a whole new app (I know, I know, first world problems, but the point still stands that convenience matters). Netflix is not designed for channel-surfers.
An Intercontinental or US Championship change wouldn't do much. Nor would IYO SKY dropping her title. It needed to be a "big news" event and Jey dropping the title was a much easier thing to do, booking-wise, than ending Cena's reign.
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Cena's heel turn would be "clicking" if he wasn't having dogshit matches with dogshit finishes that, at least in the case of the Mania match with Cody, are "bad on purpose" as some sort of "meta" commentary on years of valid criticisms of his work, like his telegraphing and not even hiding when he's calling spots and working "slow" compared to the "indie guys." When he literally started working in slo-mo at WrestleMania, I get that he was "getting heat"...but, at the end of the day, I've found myself bored and underwhelmed by every match of his since his return and I'm beginning to question whether Cena is doing this because it's "brilliant" trolling or because he actually can't work a good match anymore due to the accumulation of injury.
The Orton match was a house show match and it was rightfully described as such by many commentators/analysts/podcast hosts, including Mark Henry, who would know something about Cena and Orton house show matches considering he probably wrestled in or saw hundreds of them over the years. The St. Louis crowd carried a match that didn't have a single original element in its entire 20+ minute runtime.
But to return to Cody for a minute...Was I wrong to assume that he was supposed to be coming back as Cena's main foil? Its crazy that the collateral damage from how they messed up the R-Truth deal seems to be Cody's momentum because I don't think anyone cares at all that he's returned and is seeking revenge against Cena. And now with Punk as the challenger at the Saudi Arabia Sportswashing Celebration, Cody feels very much like he's outside the spotlight. Its a long ways until the Rumble so I'm just curious what he's going to be doing till then.
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I can't speak for every person posting on R-Truth release, but I think most people recognize that it wasn't a firing. I don't think anyone is saying what the WWE did is technically unfair or complaining that they broke some sort of promise for a "job for life."
I think what people - including a resounding number of actual wrestlers in the locker room - seemingly feel is that, sure, the WWE lived up to their contract and R-Truth lived up to his, but unless it is later revealed that there were on-going negotiations and the two sides couldn't meet in the middle, it certainly comes off like the WWE looked at R-Truth as just a number on a balance sheet and not as someone who, again, based on the evidence we have now, seems like he was a beloved part of the locker room. Y'know, the guys and gals that actually do the hard work and are in the trenches, making dates, training, etc.
The frustration is not with WWE being "ruthless" in trimming the roster - which is why you didn't you see an outpouring of support for any of the other releases/non-renewals. The frustration is very specific to R-Truth, a guy who was clearly highly-respected, well-liked and considered a valuable part of the locker room. And, as I noted earlier, when a company doesn't do everything it can to retain someone like that, it sends a message that, ultimately, the things that R-Truth did to make the workplace a fun, positive place don't mean shit.
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^ I think its the latter. I think WWE/Nick Khan/HHH are executing things that are coming from higher up and the motive is always profit. I don't think HHH woke up and thought to himself, "Let's not renew a wildly popular performer with seemingly little warning just because." Does that mean the Talent Relations department and the PR department and the head of Creative and their bosses (Khan and HHH) are blameless? No. They could've fought for R-Truth.
But two things can be true at once. While it was a money-based decision, it also was a decision that I assume they felt was needed to send a bit of a message and make a little bit of a statement. The message, unfortunately, seems to be that anyone is expendable and that the WWE doesn't really give a shit about locker room morale and all that "We're like a family here" bullshit is as phony there as it is in any workplace. It's not a good look. It's also particularly hurtful due to the specific context.*
The statement to viewers and fans, though, is that the WWE is evolving and changing and I think, creatively, we're seeing that shift all over both shows. Just like this is John Cena's last run, I think we are going to be seeing less and less of the stars from the first half of the 2020s. I don't think they're going to be cutting Randy Orton anytime soon, but we should probably enjoy folks like The Miz and Asuka and maybe Sheamus now while we can because, well, they're making room on the roster for the next generation.
* Think about the "lifers" in WWE's history, the men (and they are mostly men) who were part of Vince's inner circle or served as his top lieutenants. Its a club of bullies, racists, perverts, power-hungry sycophant...the least offensive of the bunch were the plain ol' "old schoolers" willing to turn a blind eye to rampant hazing (and possibly sexual assault). Now think of the outpouring of emotion for R-Truth. You're telling me racist-ass Michael Hayes gets a lifetime deal but R-Truth's too expensive?
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Thinking about Ricochet's search for a "crew" and most people believing it will be either Top Flight, CRU, Private Party or some other team, I kinda wish they'd go in a completely different direction and have it be, like, Evil Uno and Big Show. Just something ridiculous that makes very little sense but also kinda points to Ricochet not being able to convince an "actual" team to join him because he's such an arrogant, annoying nerd...aside from Evil Uno, who is has always been a follower, and Big Show, who could almost play it as taking pity on him or only doing it because Ricochet is paying him some ludicrous amount of money. Big Show is good at the comedy stuff, Uno is a great bumping henchman (and a good physical foil to Ricochet), and, if it works, maybe we'd even get Grayson back.
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At this point, Adam Cole almost seems like he's on the roster out of pity for "what could've been."
Due to his size, Cole was always going to be a hard sell as a main event-level guy for WWE and even for AEW if we're being honest. I feel like he needed everything to go right for him to overcome that and there were certainly times when things were going right. But injuries and that awful Devil storyline have basically eliminated any chance of him being a major player again. He seems like a super nice, hard-working dude, but I just don't see big things in his future. It also doesn't help that he's been doing the same entrance shtick forever and has also been attached-at-the-hip to O'Reilly and Strong to the point that it all feels like a retread of a retread of a retread.-
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- I think folks are really underplaying Storm/Bayne. That match was phenomenal. Easily the MOTN to me and even a potential MOTY for AEW in my book. I think with every other match on the show, you could point to this or that element not working or a bad booking decision or a lack of crowd engagement, but I found no such issues in the Women's World Championship match. Great storytelling, great character work, a bunch of awesome sequences and good signature offense out of Toni and a genuine "Oh Shit" moment in Bayne kicking out of the Storm Zero at 1. I guess maybe one could've asked for a more unique finish/pinning combo, but that feels a bit nitpicky.
- The commenter above who noted Moxley's Jiu-Jitsu boner is spot-on. I guess one could argue that Moxley's offense matches his character as he transitioned from a brawler to a someone who wants to "punish" and grind his opponents down and, as a heel, him boring the audience with that style draws heat. But to pull that off, you have to be a real top-level worker and storyteller capable of planning and executing a match that features enough hope spots and cut-offs, enough twists and turns, and enough crowd interaction to make a 20+ minute match work. Moxley is not that worker.
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I really, really hope not.
I know that the story was supposed to lead to Darby winning the big one and being AEW's "savior," but I think that moment passed and, the good news is, you can still have Darby win the title down the line because the real story with Darby Allin is not beating Jon Moxley, the story has always been that Darby Allin is undersized, doesn't have "the look," is "too wild" to be a World Champion...but he has heart.
The Death Riders thing isn't the worst storyline in wrestling history, but it doesn't feel like the "A" story and that's a problem when it is supposed to be at the top of the card. There was never any question what the "A" story was in WWE or WCW at any given time - whether it was Hogan in the 80s or the nWo or Austin/McMahon, Cena's lengthy run as the clear top guy, Daniel Bryan vs. The Authority, Becky Lynch's peak run as The Man, and most recently, the Bloodline saga. Sure, there were other angles and stories going on that were more engaging or more interesting and brief moments when a guy like Jeff Hardy might *seem* to be even more popular than the "top guy" like Cena, for example, but ultimately, when you tuned in to RAW or a PPV, there was always a sense that the top act in the company was in the top story.
The Death Riders is not the top act and they're certainly not the top story. In AEW, I think the crowds are much more engaged in whatever Ospreay and Omega are doing than the Death Riders story. The crowd was more into Toni/Mariah May than the Death Riders story. I think Swerve/Ricochet had "hotter" segments than Cope/Mox did in the build-up to Revolution. The Death Riders story feels like part of the show - same as Jericho's Learning Tree - but not the "A" story.I've written about it elsewhere, but if I had the pencil, I'd take the title off Mox (and Swerve is a fantastic option this weekend) and send him home for a little. Then, you keep the Death Riders around and put PAC in the leadership role because, in terms of in-ring ability, he's gonna deliver the bangers on TV (vs. Ospreay, vs. Swerve, vs. Omega, vs. whoever) that is really AEW's bread-and-butter. Down the line, you bring back Mox and let the audience cheer for the guy again because, if MJF is "our scumbag," Moxley is kinda like "our idiot." He's a guy that the AEW fanbase wants to cheer and see do his act - even if that act is absurdly dangerous and stupid. He's likeable because, for all his bad ideas and sloppy work, for all the different ways he can make our eyes roll, I don't think anyone doubts his genuine passion for pro-wrestling and AEW. Its endearing.
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Maybe its just me being cynical, but it seems like inducting "Moments" is just an excuse to bring in guys that are already in the Fame but don't necessarily have a reason to be at the Ceremony, on stage (and, ultimately, the Ceremony has become just another excuse to sell a ton of seats and merchandise).
This year, having Austin at the WrestleMania Weekend thing and presumably at the Hall of Fame Ceremony to accept the award along with Bret, is the reason they're doing this. Otherwise, you're paying Austin to come out to do only off-camera work and that's kinda silly. If you're going to have the guy in Vegas, you gotta have him pop the crowd and drink a few beers.*
Next year, I expect something similar - Undertaker vs. Shawn, The Rock vs. Foley, Foley vs. Undertaker - to give a reason for a big name retired guy like Undertaker or The Rock to make an appearance (though they don't really need one for The Rock anyway). I don't think they're too eager to bring Flair or Hulk back on-stage and I don't see them celebrating guys that can't really do anything for ticket sales (Savage, Piper, Andre, Warrior).
I wouldn't get my hopes up that they'll be doing anything to commemorate a match like Bruno/Zybysko unless there are analytics I'm not aware of that say there is huge interest in late 70s/early 80s that can be monetized.
* I wonder if he's going to charge them extra to drink that Real American swill and not his own brand, which is actually a damn tasty IPA (I haven't had his lager).-
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- I thought the Women's Chamber was good, not great. MOTY candidate is a biiig streeeeeetch to me. Sure, the wrestling was good and there were some cool spots but Bayley has been directionless since the DMG CTRL story ended, Roxanne Perez's gimmick is "I Was NXT Champion" (great...but for those of us that don't watch NXT or care, what is it that makes you special?), and Alexa Bliss is in that unfortunate situation of having a big return at the Rumble but clearly no real big comeback storyline laid out for her. Hopefully, Triple H takes off the noise-cancelling headphones soon and realizes that Bliss had one of the largest pops at the Rumble and that the crowd popped HUGE for her squaring off with Morgan last night. The match started off HOT with the Cargill angle and the finish was good, but the "middle" was good wrestling-for-good-wrestling's sake with a bunch of non-contenders.
- We'll see how it plays out and I'm not totally sour on it or anything, but...they could've waited on this Rock story. Or maybe not? I hope I'm wrong. To me, though, Cena/Cody in a face/face match would've worked just fine. I assume Cody goes over at Mania as I'm just not sure how him getting screwed there is going to work when Mania has such a history of Babyface Overcoming Heel To Close The Show vibe. That being said, we saw Cody lose 2 years ago and it didn't halt his momentum so maybe Cena wins. But, at the same time, that was a loss against Roman during an all-time great run, not against Cena, who looks his age (somebody get this guy in a tanning bed) and has been passable-but-not-quite-his-old-self over the past few years.
- Its also just a bit odd that Cena's big final run, even with a historic heel turn, will still ultimately be regarded as a footnote to a multi-year Rock/Cody program. Its giving more Austin turning heel to align himself with the "real" top villain (Vince McMahon) than Hulk Hogan turning heel and being the top villain.
- I also felt like the inclusion of Travis Scott "dated" this segment, but my buddy's son, a wrestling fanatic, said it was great and reminded him of Dennis Rodman being in the nWo. Not my cup of tea, but let's remember who the target audience is and what will get social media attention (even saying "headlines" is a dated phrase). Travis Scott's involvement rubs many of us the wrong way because we don't know or care about Travis Scott. But we're not the TikTok generation. Rodman was a lightning rod in 97', but my dad would've thought him being involved in wrestling was silly and stupid while I thought it was sweet (maybe even TOO sweet). And my dad was in his early 40s then and I'm in my early 40s now. Maybe more of us would've popped for it if it were someone we think is cool like, I dunno, Robert Smith from the Cure. Or Morrisey if they wanted that extra heel heat.- I thought Zayn and KO delivered, but the commentary was just too over-the-top. You can't or at least *shouldn't* be saying things like "Sami Zayn is dead" or "This has been a massacre" when there are still 15 minutes in the match left with multiple kick-outs, babyface comebacks, and cut-offs coming. I get that they need to sell every big spot as career-ending, but it becomes gratuitous and takes away from the action when the commentators are treating every single move as a deathblow. Its like a huge neon sign flashing "This Is All Staged."
- Speaking of bad commentary, Pat McAfee may have jumped the shark on this show for me. For starters, bringing up how the Canadian fans booed the national anthem repeatedly was awkward. Our President is in the midst of starting a trade war with one of our key allies (actually, more than one), so, yeah, there's some understandable tension. No need for jingoism on this show. But, even worse than that, McAfee having the anti-intuition and bad judgment to talk during the final segment. Cole and Barrett kept their comments to a minimum until AFTER Cena's turn, at which point Cole went into hysterics (which is in line with his character), but McAfee's nonsensical commentary didn't add anything and only took away from the segment. This is the issue with bringing in a guy who gets paid to talk to be a commentator. He doesn't know when to shut up and let a moment be a moment because he is literally paid to talk non-stop for hours a day. Its not his fault either, especially as the company has made it clear that they're willing to let him come and go and get a huge paycheck and do whatever he wants because he's a "name" and Corey Graves isn't. I'm not even a Graves mark, but, yeah, I think its going to be hard for me to "un-hear" McAfee's faults moving forward.
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I think we're supposed to separate "The Rock" and "The Final Boss." Last night, they advertised the return of "The Final Boss" and so that's code for "The Rock will be playing his heel character" whereas, on the Netflix special, we got The Rock as the non-kayfabe actual TKO board member there to glad hand Netflix executives about how all the millionaires in the room are going to make even more millions.
I guess both versions are heel but one is a "wresting heel" and the other is just an actual tone deaf rich douchebag?Anyway...I'm not super enthused about some of the ideas being thrown out there, but I guess we'll wait and see.
Cody as the "Corporate Champion" seems a bit premature to me, actually. I don't get the sense that the fans are turning on him even slightly. There's an argument that he needs new challengers, but Cena/Cody seems like its on the horizon, Cena/Punk can work face/face, I think Orton/Cody could work whenever Orton comes back, and Jacob Fatu is on the brink of being a main event guy if they continue pushing him right.
Cena is not turning heel for his final run. I don't even think it would make for a good story, honestly. Punk turning into The Rock's "pick" would also be really dumb to me. These guys' characters and motivations are so established that throwing away decades of that just so they could play an unfitting role for a year or two - because, again, Cena is retiring this year and Punk is not going to last much longer with his injury history - would be silly. And would be leaving a ton of money on the table. Cena's Farewell Tour is going to sell a ton more tee-shirts and rally towels to kids if he's a babyface than if he's a heel. CM Punk is a great heel, no doubt, but he's arguably even better at just playing himself and he's not a "corporate ass-kisser" guy. The money with Punk has always been using him as a lightning rod, a modern Piper, not as a suck-up.
My prediction: The Rock is going to keep it ucey and his pick will be someone in the Bloodline. I want it to be Fatu. I think Fatu being "corporate-ized" but still being a madman in the ring would be a good way to test his range. We know the in-ring skills are there. We know the charisma is there in its current form. How would Fatu come across if you put him in some gaudy "expensive" shit like what the Rock was wearing? Plus, as I alluded to, while Fatu has a history outside of the WWE, to the WWE audience, he is relatively new and the parameters of his character have not been defined yet. You can play around with him more than you can Cena or Punk and, if it flops (which, based on Fatu's work so far, it probably won't), you can always reset him without having to explain much.
Who do I think it will be? Jimmy or Solo.
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"Some Kind of Monster" is so, so, so good. It's the documentary Goodfellas/Casino to me: a movie that I can walk into at any moment, beginning, middle, or end, and just watch the rest of the way through and thoroughly enjoy. It really doesn't matter if you start at the beginning after your first viewing. Is it the best rock doc ever? Maybe, maybe not...but the replay value is incredible. Another movie that has become that for me is I,Tonya, but whatever.
As for post-Black Album 'Tallica, I don't think there's really a solid, beginning-to-end good album in the discography. Some are unlistenable (St. Anger), some are not really worth a full revisit (72 Seasons), and some are okay but maybe too bloated or self-conscious to consider as anything more than decent (Hardwired...). I'm not even precious about pre-Black Album Metallica. I just think around the mid-90s, their albums became 4-5 good songs with cool riffs surrounded by 8 to 10 songs that lacked much creative juice. I don't think good production would've saved St. Anger, which sounds like everyone having collective writer's block and blaming each other for it (the fact that they wondered if maybe the problem was Kirk's soloing just shows how crazy their thinking was during that time) and the documentary makes it pretty clear that that was at least partially what was going on.
As for AEW, I'm admittedly kinda bummed that Grand Slam is not a PPV because the card is really stacked and exciting to me and I worry that its going to feel more like a "special TV episode" - predictable outcomes, matches getting cut into with commercial breaks, fewer surprises - than what it deserves. I'm hoping they find a way to make it feel like something bigger and better than one of their lame Battle of the Belt shows.
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MCMG/DIY really had the worst possible positioning but something has to go there so at least we got the tag titles defended and, with only 4 matches on the card, it was the right one to put there. The work was fine, it was just happening in front of a massive crowd that was naturally cooling down after a 60+ minute match where there is literally something "new and shiny" to attract your attention every 2 minutes.
Talking to a friend who was there, he went to the bathroom basically as soon as the Women's Rumble ended and said the lines for the bathroom and concessions were so long that by the time he got to his seat, he'd missed the first 2 falls. That means getting to the restroom, waiting in line, probably getting a beer, and getting back to his seat took something like 20+ minutes.
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I really like the switch to Max. For whatever reason, 80% of the time I watched Dynamite - either onDemand or recorded via Hulu+ - it would glitch out. Max has not had that problem. I do wish they'd set-up an AEW "page" or "section" rather than having to search for it every week. On the app, when you scroll down, you can see sections for things like DC or Cartoon Network (I think?) but no such section for AEW yet.
That being said, I'm growing closer and closer to watching AEW the same way I watch WWE...which is, PLEs only.
I watched the first Raw on Netflix and was not impressed. I'll catch the occasional segment or match on Raw, but usually just via YouTube. I've probably watched less than 5 full episodes of Raw or SmackDown over the past 10 years.
With AEW, I would watch the weekly TV fairly regularly from, say, 2021 through 2023, but at a certain point, it became less consistent and now I'm pretty much Dynamite only and only maybe 2-out-of-4 episodes a month.
The fact is, now that AEW is putting on PPVs/PLEs more regularly (which are almost always excellent and that I enjoy watching in full), the WWE is putting on PLEs more regularly (which are usually the only "essential viewings" WWE produces), and I've made a strong effort to broaden my viewing by watching old TNA PPVs, classic Japanese stuff I never saw, "classic" indie stuff I never saw before, etc., I've found that there's simply so much more variety and great wrestling to watch that I don't have to punish myself with Private Party matches I don't care about whatsoever. Like, yesterday, I watched the Nigel/Danielson matches from Ring of Honor (the one from Unified with the legendary ring post spot) for the first time and it was like doing a bump of cocaine or something where it reminded me how awesome wrestling can be and made me want to watch more wrestling. If I'm going to chase that high of "Oh yeah, this is why I love pro-wrestling," I'm wasting my time watching weekly TV shows when there are decades of treasure on YouTube.
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- I don't think Graves is leaving WWE. I also don't quite buy that he's going to be wrestling at Mania against Pat McAfee. At least I hope not. Announcer storylines are the drizzling shits. Also, I think Graves has become such a WWE homer that he's kinda in that Seth Rollins position of, if he's not working for WWE, he's probably not working in pro-wrestling.
- I, personally, am loving having AEW on MAX. My Hulu+ would consistently glitch out when I watched it on there (the only show, taped or on-demand, that it did that for). I also am super, super excited to hear about when the 2020 PPVs and supershows will be made available. For all the wrestlers and managers and announcers TK spends money on, I'd love him to hire a team of nerds working remotely for $80k a year to just go ahead and make "Best Of" compilation shows because I, personally, think curated playlists for Omega, Page, Darby, etc. would be really nice. I know that I wasn't watching AEW consistently during its few couple years and probably missed out on a ton of really, really good matches.-
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- The 12-man tag is rightfully getting shitted on. I'm not even a Death Riders fan, but shouldn't they just jump everybody before the bell? That feels so much more "on brand" for them than actually teaming with the Learning Tree. If I was TK, I'd have the match "implode" within the first 30 seconds on the heel side of things, then things immediately implode on the face side with Hobbs and Copeland getting into eachother's face (which leads to FTR and the Outlanders shoving eachother) and then you just turn it into a 4-way trios match.
- Addition by subtraction with Black leaving. Brody has been the star of the team for at least a year or two now. He's a guy I'd love to see AEW get behind in a more, dare I say, "initimate" way. I don't know if he'd be into it, but show his family. Show pictures from his childhood, teen years, rise through the indies. We know he's tough and brutal and a "monster." We've seen him do some crazy shit to Darby Allin. But the audiences are also barking for him. They want to cheer him because we all love an ass-kicker and he kicks ass. Establish that Brody King does these "mean" things because that's what the competition calls for and that he's fighting for his family (I know, I know, this is basically Kevin Owens' gimmick) and because he wants to be considered the best wrestler in the world. Training montages, picture slideshows, the whole works. I think the audience would get behind it as long as it is "real" and not overly corny.-
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3 hours ago, stuntmanc said:
Saying Toni Storm wouldn't be a main eventer in WWE is one of the wildest takes I've seen in a while. She's one of, if not the top woman on the planet in-ring/character wise and I'd argue only Rhea is past her and not by much.
I guess I should've clarified because I'm a big fan of Toni Storm and absolutely agree that she's "main event" material in any company in the world.
However, I don't think, in WWE, under Vince at the time (or even if it was Triple H), we get the "Timeless" Toni Storm character, which was what separated her from the rest of the pack. If she had pitched it there, I hope that it would've got the green light, I hope the company would've got behind it, I hope they would've seen that it could work and get over.
But, let's be honest, it's been a long, long time since the WWE has gotten behind a wrestler taking that big of a swing with their character. So much of the roster, male and female, is very generic and interchangeable or working with gimmicks that are much less defined. Even the "goth" characters are basically just guys and gals in dark leather.
In AEW, I feel like TK is - for better or worse - still throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks and, especially with the women's roster being so thin, Toni was given the time and opportunity to get the gimmick over because, well, what else was going to fill that time? In WWE, I'm not sure that same time and opportunity is given unless Vince really, really liked the idea. If he didn't, they'd have given her a special entrance, maybe a few backstage segments to establish how "crazy"/"silly" she is, and then she'd be tagging with Shotzi in the midcard.-
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Y'all are wild wanting AEW to have Women's Tag Championships. That's some real cart-before-the-horse talk. The AEW Women's division can barely sustain having two singles championships. The fact is, there is a pretty wide gulf between the AEW women who are capable of carrying feuds and storylines and consistently deliver in the ring - I'd argue there are only 3 currently (Toni, Mercedes, and Willow) - and everyone else. Mariah May is getting there, but she's cooled since breaking apart from Toni. Thunder Rosa and Britt Baker seem like they lost something post-injuries and there's no telling if/when it will ever come back. I really like Julia Hart's presence and love her with Brody and Buddy, but she's not a world-beater in the ring. Statlander has had great matches with Mercedes and Willow, but can't anchor her own feuds yet. Purrazzo, Jamie Hayter, Aminata, and Deeb are just not over enough currently to make much of a difference on the show. Shafir is unproven and more of a Chyna-like "valet" than a wrestler right now. Then you have Riho, Sakura, and Shida, all good-to-great in the ring, but often feel like "guest stars" in AEW and not week-to-week characters.
For comparison, in WWE, in any given part of the year, you've got Rhea, Bianca, Bayley, Becky, and Charlotte, all of whom are established main eventers. The next tier down is like Nia, Liv, and Asuka (and, at one point, Alexa Bliss), who can "slot-in" and main event as needed. That's 9 women who can (and have) anchored a TV storyline. Then you have the gals that the company seems to be really getting behind like Jade, Stratton, possibly Valkyria and Chelsea Green, and the "ol' reliables" that have the experience to be utilized as needed (IYO, Naomi, Nikki Cross, Shayna, Sane, Natalya) who may not be ready or capable of being main eventers now, but don't feel out of place getting title matches on TV or even on PLEs. The depth chart is just incredible and it goes on and on with Candice and Piper and Zoey and the entirety of NXT.
It's not a knock against Toni or Willow to say this, but, if/when they were in WWE, they'd not be main eventers right now. Rosa and Britt would be lucky to get airtime. Julia Hart would be a work-in-progress in NXT. Statlander would maybe be what Raquel Rodriguez is. The WWE's roster of women is just that stacked...which isn't surprising considering we're now in roughly Year 10 of the company actually taking it serious and they had the jumpstart to cherry-pick the best talent in the US and UK and train them using some of the best coaches (Finlay, Regal, Dusty) with no real competition. The AEW will get there, but its going to take some time.-
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If I'm not mistaken, I think Bruce Prichard - and maybe others like Meltzer? - have suggested that Flair/Hogan wasn't booked because their house show matches hadn't done as well as expected both in terms of drawing and quality.
I always found that very suspect.
We know that, 2 years later, a considerably "colder" Hulk Hogan would headline Bash at the Beach 94' against Flair, who you could also argue was "colder" in 94' than he was in 91'. This show was a huge success for WCW, setting a company record for buys (though, to be fair, the 225k buys would not have been considered as rousing a success in WWE). But, in 91'-92', the WWE machine was far ahead in terms of production/marketing/promotion and its hard not to think that with all of Vince's energy behind it, a Flair/Hogan match wouldn't have done a good buyrate.
Plus, if Vince was disappointed with Flair's drawing power against Hogan on house shows - which presumably occurred in late 91' - why then go ahead and push Flair so strong? What would make you believe Flair/Savage would work better than Flair/Hogan aside from the size issue? (note: One theory is that Vince didn't see Flair as physically impressive enough to work against Hogan.)
I've also heard/read that there was tension because neither guy wanted to job to the other. Again, I'm kinda surprised by this. Flair did the job for Savage, so why would he be so against doing it for Hulk? Flair has always joked that being a 16-time World Champion comes with the caveat that he also lost the World Championship that many times. He wasn't Roman Reigns. He wasn't even Hogan or Lesnar. Ric Flair lost all the time, including at WrestleMania VIII. But putting Hogan over would've somehow been a dealbreaker? I don't buy it.Then there's the ridiculousness of Vince worrying too much about "quality." Vince may have always wanted the WWE to be "sports-entertainment" and not 'rassling, but even Vince knew what a quality wrestling match was and what the audience wanted. That's why Bret Hart was champion and not Ludvig Borga. No way did Vince think Hogan/Sid was going to be a better wrestling match than Flair/Hogan.
I don't think Vince cared one bit about match quality, though. I think he legitimately saw Hogan/Sid as a bigger "spectacle" match and saw Flair/Savage as being the "wrestling" main event.
But that does leave the question of maybe Vince thought he'd get another crack at it forWrestleMania IX when, presumably, Flair would've had the title back (he wins back the gold sometime after SummerSlam 92'), been a bigger star in Vince's eyes, and Hogan would've been back from his "retirement" for a big Mania payday.TLDR: I'm not sure we'll ever really know the true answer. Neither Vince or Hogan are reliable narrators. The "disappointing house shows" seems really short-sighted and uncharacteristic of Vince. Neither guy wanting to do the job is silly because Flair did jobs all the time (including to Savage at WM8).
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- I agree that the Statlander face turn seems rushed and unnecessary, but think the Bang Bang Gang one isn't too "out of nowhere." The fans have wanted to cheer these guys for awhile so it was a simple "We'll just book them against heels" strategy and, often times, that's all you really need to do. What I hope is that TK/the producers of their segments don't make the mistake of having them change a single thing about their act.
- The Statlander turn is more egregious because I think they did a ton of work to establish her as a heel and the streetfight with Willow really seemed like a "big moment" for her in that character. You kinda lose the impact of that match when you have to repackage her so soon after, IMO. I also don't think AEW has a "we need more babyface women" problem as much as they have an overall women's division problem where there is a rather wide rift between the women who can carry segments and matches and the women who are not there yet. There's also something of an elephant-in-the-room regarding Britt Baker. I think TK is (wisely) holding off on Jamie Hayter's big push until its clear she's really 100% and there's still juice to squeeze out of Toni/Mariah, plus Willow is over and I think Julia Hart is probably nearing a return. While I like Hart's work with the House of Black, I don't think its impossible to book her as something of a babyface even with the backing of the heels. Hell, that's kinda what Rhea Ripley did. She had something going with Mercedes before and now that Mone is established as a villain, I think the fans would cheer Hart against her even as a HOB member. Plus, with the big money deal, who knows who they might be able to sign away from TNA or elsewhere.
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- Mone has been acting like a heel from the beginning - the extra lavish entrance, the CEO nickname (I mean, is there anyone more hated in modern late capitalist society than a CEO?), the fact that she got visually pinned by Willow in their TBS Title match, the condescending tone of every one of her promos - but I think they didn't want to necessarily beat the audience's heads with it because (a) there was merch money to be made and (b) the fans in Boston and in other cities did want to cheer for her initially because she was the biggest star in the division so seeing her live was always going to get a huge pop.* And, who knows? Maybe they also thought she might get over as a babyface despite clearly being a heel so best not to have Excalibur and Schiavone and Tazz sell her as a villain the way they do the Young Bucks or The Learning Tree?
Here's hoping that, moving forward, they do start having the commentary make it clear that she is buddy-buddy with the Bucks and has an attitude (but can back it up in the ring). Then, let Mercedes do the rest of the work to get heat.
Also - last thought - I wasn't a huge fan of Britt's lengthy promo. It's a shame that shooting straight from the heart and revealing a very real medical issue has become a wrestling trope, but it has. It just seems like every 6 weeks, somebody is coming out to detail some horrendous career-ending injury and how they're now medically cleared and are back to take their spot back. I'm hoping they make this feud less about "AEW Original vs. AEW Outsider" because that's also a trope and maybe more about their characters. Something like: Mercedes Mone is an arrogant, entitled drama queen who pretends to be pro-woman but has thrown a temper tantrum and walked out every time she's been asked to step aside for a new woman to get the spotlight. Britt Baker is a big fish in a small pond and, like her husband, is too fragile to have ever actually achieved anything at the level that Mercedes has. They don't like each other. They don't respect each other. Now they're going to fight. That, to me, is a dynamic where I'm not sure who is going to win.
- They really need to do more with Takeshita. I don't know why Tony doesn't see him as, if not their Brock Lesnar, than at least their GUNTHER. I thought they were setting him up to beat Briscoe for the ROH Championship but that doesn't seem like where they're going. I'd love to see him go after Perry for the TNT Title but I don't think they're going in that direction either. For a company with a half-dozen titles floating around, how this guy doesn't get one and then just go on an undefeated streak for the next 3 years makes no sense to me.
* I love to bring up this story just because so I again...Somewhere between 2004-2006, I went to an indy show here in Cleveland (it was pre-AIW, so I'm guessing it was either a Cleveland All-Pro show run by JT Lightning or a Pro Wrestling Ohio show) where Buff Bagwell was the big star they brought in. Of course, the whole time, before he makes his entrance, fans are just goofing on Bagwell, talking about Judy, chatting amongst ourselves at how far Buff had fallen to be doing this show, etc. Then, Bagwell shows up, sporting the top hat, looking like "The Stuff," doing all the shtick and all 100 or so fans are just going wild for him. Myself included. Sure, there was still some "Where's Judy?" heckling, but Buff had fun with it and worked the match as the babyface and got babyface reactions. We came to ridicule and boo this guy, we left with our wallets $20 lighter because we all wanted a Polaroid with him and the hat. In a larger sense, this is why you couldn't have Mercedes debut as a heel. The live audiences were going to mark out for her.
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Might as well get my predictions in...
* I don't watch the weekly TV consistently so I was surprised to learn that Seth Rollins is back and seemingly 100%. Would've thought that they'd hold off on that till SummerSlam but I understand that would've meant having two big returns and that's one too many (as I'm guessing the plan is for Punk vs. Drew there). Any which way, I'm guessing somehow Damien retains and that he still leaves Judgment Day (by choice) to solidify a face turn. Somewhat risky move there, though, because GUNTHER could very well get cheered at SummerSlam. People love a guy who comes out, says he's going to kick your ass, and then does it and GUNTHER has that aura.
* Bron/Sami is a bit of a wildcard to me. On one hand, Bron winning makes sense as a way to keep his momentum going. Sami will be fine because he has proven time and time again that he's going to recover. On the other hand, Bron getting DQ'd by tossing refs around and doing a bunch of furniture damage seems equally likely (based on the segments I've seen, Bron being "out of control" is the gimmick, right?).
* Six-man should be great fun. Bloodline probably taking it.
* I don't think he's a particularly good singles guy, but they'll probably give Jey the win in the Men's MITB. I really, really thought The Rock would be wrestling at SummerSlam when the show was announced many moons ago to be happening at Browns Stadium, which could potentially hold 50k+. That doesn't seem to be happening now, but Jey vs. Cody would give you a big storyline reason to have The Rock and Roman on-hand for a big angle or make surprise appearances. If that's the case, I'm willing to sit through what would be, according to my notes, Jey's 4th chance at delivering something resembling a great main event-caliber match (he's 0-3 for me if you're just looking at his PLE matches against Roman, Damien Priest, and his brother at WrestleMania). Will Punk screw Drew again? Probably.
* It's going to be Tiffy Time for sure in the Women's MITB and I'm here for it. It's been a good 4 or so months since Stratton delivered a breakout performance at Elimination Chamber, but I don't think Triple H has forgotten it. Now that we're well past the "WrestleMania and its aftermath" portion of the year - a span that lasts from roughly April to June - we're in the part of the year when the WWE has historically tended to spotlight some of the talent that may or may not have been ready for that big Mania push and we've already seen it with Liv Morgan on Raw. I'd love to see Stratton call her shot at SummerSlam and challenge Bayley too.And, yes, I know that means that in my fantasy booking world we'd have both briefcases getting "cashed in" at SummerSlam and would thus eliminate two plot devices that the WWE has used as a crutch for nearly two decades now, but I still like the idea. Plus, a year without briefcases might even make the briefcases more interesting in 2025. Y'know, like how sometimes taking a break from something makes it more special when it does come around again?
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56 minutes ago, EVA said:
And it’s certainly not going to help that, with the exception of Nikki (who is the person least likely to be given much ring time), this group is composed of okay-and-maybe-kinda-bad wrestlers. Not much of interest is going to happen when the bell finally rings.
Yup. Nikki is the best worker of the bunch and by at least a few country miles, based on what I've seen.
Watching many of those six-mans and tag matches semi-recently (cheap plug: Kwang The Blog), Luke Harper was very obviously the best in-ring performer and really seemed to set the tone in many of those matches by mixing wrestling holds (a side headlock here, a suplex there) with moves that a big, "untrained" bully might do (clotheslines, big kicks, running full speed and launching yourself at someone, lifting a guy up and just dropping him face-first on the ground). He made it work early on so, years later, when he eventually got somewhat of a singles run, you could also believe that he'd "adapted" and added more moves to his arsenal based on his years in the ring (even if you took the gimmick literally and believed his literal debut was as a member of the Family).
It takes a really special worker to make that possible. Rowan could be that guy now maybe (?), but, honestly, I haven't seen any of his matches since his last WWE run. Sometimes big men, like Rowan, like Taker, like Mark Henry, get sneakily good over time as they become more well-rounded. If there is one guy that is going to have to do the heavy lifting in the ring, I think it'll be him and probably Bo, but I'm not sure Bo is even going to be featured in-ring as much as he will be the "mouthpiece." The other ex-NXT guys are seemingly being inserted to round out the cast, but if this flops, will be able to re-painted again anyway with few being the wiser. For Rowan, though, this seems like make it-or-break it time and I'm hoping he really shines here.
That being said, I've got admittedly low expectations as I've always found that the Wyatt gimmick follows the pattern others have already described: good hype, ultra-cool debut, amazing entrances, matches of extremely varying quality, bloom leaves the rose, needs repackaging. Repeat. -
My prediction: MJF causes some sort of double DQ/screwy finish in the World Championship match at Forbidden Door.
This leads to MJF vs. Ospreay vs. Swerve at Wembley. And you can really go in any direction you want with that match because I'm not sure there's a bad decision in terms of who should win.
Ospreay winning gives you that big Wembley moment...but we saw with Cody that its 1000% possible to hold off a year on it. There are still loads and loads of potential matches for him before he wins the big one.
MJF winning could be what propels him back to being "the old MJF," the heel one that everyone wants back. Then again, MJF losing probably gives more reason for him to return to being a full-fledged heel.Swerve winning would cement his status as a true top, top main event guy, of course, but I think Swerve is still nowhere near as good as he is going to be or as fully-developed as a character as he will one day be. He's a long-term investment, in my eyes, a guy that fans are going to only get more and more engaged with as he goes through his ups-and-downs. Losing the title at Wembley wouldn't be a career-ender. In fact, I could see it actually leading to him getting more over as he works hard to reclaim his spot by going through the biggest stars on the roster - Mox, Danielson, Okada, Cole (if he ever returns), Copeland, Kingston, Joe, Darby, etc. Sorta similar to Bret Hart after WrestleMania IX where fans only got more behind him after dropping the title because his work ethic and ability became undeniable.
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Night of Champions XI - 6/28/2025
in WWE PROGRAMMING
Posted
Yea, I'm sure its a nightmare to figure it all out, but ultimately, Saudi Arabia is one of the richest countries in the world and has also invested heavily into this whole enterprise. I don't see them - or the WWE, for that matter - changing things up when it is in Saudi Arabia and the WWE's best interest to act like everything is fine/safe/peachy keen.
Where there's a will, there's a way and I think there's a strong will to put this show on.