Personal Jesus
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Posts posted by Personal Jesus
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If you honestly believe that Punk himself even believes that he "fulfilled" his contract then you didn't listen to the podcast at all. Punk says that he was fired on his wedding day. You don't get fired from jobs that you aren't under contract for. Even if he had fulfilled his contract to its fullest extent, it's really unprofessional to just walk off the job and not tell your employer or your co-workers what's up. Punk had better and more mature options.
Your first sentence is pure nonsense. A contract means what it says. If Punk didn't fulfill his obligations, (or his obligations violate the law,) Punk doesn't get shit from WWE. As for the rest, it's apparent you're the one who didn't listen. Punk told Vince and Hunter what was up when he left. Whether or not they believed him is on them.
Yeah............Punk threw a fit, took his ball and happened to tell Vince and HHH that he was leaving on the way home. That is leagues different than someone coming in, firmly saying that they're leaving and giving sufficient notice of this fact.
I also still want an explanation of how Punk can be "fired" if he had fulfilled the contract. It's clear that there were still parts of the contract that he had yet to fulfill.
ETA: I can't believe that people are actually saying that walking off the job is fine. He was burned out and I get that but he did not go about leaving in the most mature way.
For some strange reason, I don't think any mature thinking adult picks pro wrestling as a profession.
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I like Punk and all but here are the facts:
The dude breached his contract,
Stop talking. Change the Otunga avatar cuz it's making you think you have legal knowledge you do not.
Seriously, if that was a fact, how on Earth do you think Punk WINS by lawyering up?
Either he did NOT breach his contract, (people have said the contractual requirement of talent is a certain number of appearances, and that with just months left and having been extremely active previously, Punk almost certainly met that number,) or WWE contracts are of such questionable legality that they can't even think about trying to hold anyone with two nickels to rub together to find a decent lawyer in breach, in which case, again, stop talking.
If you honestly believe that Punk himself even believes that he "fulfilled" his contract then you didn't listen to the podcast at all. Punk says that he was fired on his wedding day. You don't get fired from jobs that you aren't under contract for. Even if he had fulfilled his contract to its fullest extent, it's really unprofessional to just walk off the job and not tell your employer or your co-workers what's up. Punk had better and more mature options.
For example, if he doubted WWE's doctor's opinions about his lump, he could've easily gotten a second opinion. I'm sorry, I'm not buying that as an excuse to just quit showing up to work.
Punk won by lawyering up because the independent contract clause in WWE contracts IS bullshit and likely because WWE knew it would be cheaper to just pay Punk off than go through the process of litigation. But again, Punk made a promise to his employer, the consumers, his co-workers and he failed to honor his obligation and that reeks of immaturity.
I understand Punk's side of things but I think that he should have shown common decency and professionalism and given his notice before leaving. As has been pointed out OVER AND OVER AGAIN, WWE made him into a multimillionaire and gave him enough exposure to be able to do whatever side project he wants. If Punk wants to see where his life would be without WWE, he should look at his ROH contemporaries who went the TNA route. I'm sure that they would LOVE to have Punk's problems.
He didn't walk off the job. He talks about the entire conversation between him, Vince and Hunter. He also never quits, he just leave because he says that's the only way he can get time off (which all workers are entitled to, especially if has a fucking staph infection and a concussion). He sounds like once he could fucking sleep again and not be miserable as hell, he fully expected to go back to work at the end of his "suspension" the night after Mania. Also, what "promise did he make"? He had no program after the Rumble, Vince said he wanted to start the Hunter feud, he didn't want to do it. If creative can send you home cause "they have nothing for you", why can't a worker leave because "I don't want to do what the fuck you have planned for me, and I'm not ruining anything on-screen?"
And do you realise how hectic his schedule was? As a full time performer on TV and house shows at the time and constant travel, when is God's name was he gonna find time to get a second opinion from a reputable doctor with no ties to the WWE? He would never have gotten the chance to go and get one without taking the time off. You think these guys don't all want to go to independent doctors? having a WWE main event schedule means you more or less don't have the fucking time to do anything except wrestle and prepare for the next time you wrestle.
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Honestly, I think if the biggest problem in your life is not getting to main event a pro wrestling pay-per-view, you really don't understand what the term "problem" means.
That is the most "entitled white guy" thing ever.
Once again, not at all what he said. Listen to the fucking thing.
It wasn't the only reason he left, but he does say a few times that he was totally obsessed with it and considered himself a failure for not doing it.
Which I think is just crazy.
The guy had a goal that he wanted to accomplish. Nothing wrong with that. It obviously hasn't ruined his life and he doesn't "consider himself a failure". That was just something he tried to do. So what?
Erm, he says in the podcast "me not main eventing Mania means I'm a failure at wrestling."
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Is Punk as huge fucking mark for himself? Hell yes. Do you think anyone who has even been worth a damn in wrestling isn't? Do you think it's fun to bump like a pinball for twenty minutes, suffer though injures on the road and pushing your bodies to the ultimate pain threshold and never see your family and friends outside of the business? Do you think these guys just do it cause they really love the company, or the sport, or even the fans? Wrestling is the ultimate haven for insecure guys who are willing to break their bodies and spirits for public adoration. Of course they're all gonna politic in Vince's little puppet show. Isn't that why we watch pro wrestling? Would you rather have a bunch of guys who don't give two shits?
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Here is the key problem with rookie contracts. Look at Wiggins deal.
Andrew Wiggins $5,510,640 $5,758,680 $6,006,600 $7,574,322 $9,846,619
His last year of his rookie contract he will be making almost $10 million per season and he will be making $5.5 million this year alone.
Is he worth $5.5 million? I would say no. The NBA rookie salaries are way out of whack with what other rookies are paid in other pro sports. They get bank without having to prove anything.
Basketball more than any other sport allows rookies to contribute. Most of the time, whoever is the Rookie of the Year will be a top 40 player for that season statistically and that's not top 40 money. It's the teams responsibility to take a player in the slot that'll make the salary look like a steal, if teams draft badly that's on them, they have ample time to scout these kids. Sports teams, especially in the NBA now, throw around bad contracts and make bad picks and then franchises and fans want their teams to get bailed out. It's these GMs' job to know a good contract from a bad one, and good pick from a bad one.
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I'm gonna miss Ambrose. He was more or less filling the Daniel Bryan void for nightly show stealer with fantastic matches. It'll be interesting to see what Rollins does in the mean time, cause I don't think he's that over, we'll see if he can reacts without Ambrose.
I love Roman Reigns, but at this point he's becoming more and more like an Expendables 3 parody every week. He's working matches like an action hero, not a wrestler.
And Steph/Bree needs to be over now. Summerslam was enough, I don't need this in my life anymore. With no apparent challengers for Brock and no Ambrose, don't really know what reason there is to watch Raw next week.
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I wonder which WWE staff member just woke up one day and decided to finally push Brock as the most unstoppable heel ever. I mean, that Cena match was almost overkill. I guess you can say the immediate F5 threw Cena off his game, but right now there's not one guy on the roster that can believably touch the guy. Hard to believe at the same event last year he needed constant interference from Heyman to beat Punk. I really don't know who challenges Lesnar next though, cause the roster is completely devoid of credible main event faces. And I have no interest in it being Reigns. Seth should just give the case to Ambrose and have the crazy motherfucker cash it in for Brock's first defense.
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Pretty bad show till the end. I so want a Piper/Lesnar promo battle.
I'm imagining you may have meant Heyman/Piper? Did you forget that feeling you felt when you were feeling the feeling you felt? I know I felt that feeling ....
Lesnar is probably a better promo than Heyman now, it's just him talking all the time would kill his aura. Heyman (and most of the current "good" promo guys) are good for taking up chunks of tv and making it entertaining. UFC taught Lesnar how to sell a fight. That's the main thing lacking with most of current WWE stars promo wise. Their aim is to entertain moreso than sell the fight itself to you.
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The Steph/Brie stuff would have worked perfectly fine if Brie was the worst actor in the history of the company. She neither had a look of of sadness nor "this is total bullshit, I don't believe you for a second". I was just awful. Steph is carrying this angle totally, it's really just to keep DB relevant till he comes back which is good, but Brie needs to just stay home. And this "she's not hot" is awful and totally missing the point of the angle. Claire Lynch didn't really have a backstory, she was just a random lady claiming to have sex with AJ, hence to be believable (I guess, don't necessarily agree) she needed to be super hot to just randomly tempt AJ. This is DB's trainer, someone close to him, someone who he would be with all the time, someone who's caring for him while Brie's running around in this war with Steph. If that's not a "realistic enough" scenario for you to see an affair taking place because she's not hot enough for you, you're a shallow douche. Normal human beings have affairs because feelings come up when they spend alot of time together like in this scenario, not "oh, she's so hot, let's bone" you shallow morons. This isn't based off your Brazzers porno fantasies, it's supposed to be a realistic scenario.
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The Steph/Brie stuff would have worked perfectly fine if Brie was the worst actor in the history of the company. She neither had a look of of sadness nor "this is total bullshit, I don't believe you for a second". I was just awful. Steph is carrying this angle totally, it's really just to keep DB relevant till he comes back which is good, but Brie needs to just stay home. And this "she's not hot" is awful and totally missing the point of the angle. Claire Lynch didn't really have a backstory, she was just a random lady claiming to have sex with AJ, hence to be believable (I guess, don't necessarily agree) she needed to be super hot to just randomly tempt AJ. This is DB's trainer, someone close to him, someone who he would be with all the time, someone who's caring for him while Brie's running around in this war with Steph. If that's not a "realistic enough" scenario for you to see an affair taking place because she's not hot enough for you, you're a shallow douche. Normal human beings have affairs because feelings come up when they spend alot of time together like in this scenario, not "oh, she's so hot, let's bone" you shallow morons. This isn't based off your Brazzers porno fantasies, it's supposed to be a realistic scenario.
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I think the WWE's hesitance over the last 2.5 years has made it kinda useless now. If they had turned him in the Rock feud/Rise of the Authority/Bray feud I think it could work, but right now with all the roster turnover and injuries, he's kinda the face safety guy. If Bryan comes back healthy or Vince can convince Punk to come back to a nuclear pop under the promise of being the clear #1 face then you could make it work, but if you're trying to build a new generation, keeping Cena as a Nagata type gate-keeper against the Tanahashi's and Okada's of the world is a better bet.
But if they do turn him, the bitter heel is the absolute worse way to go. He'll either get 50/50 cheers (cause people like bitterness nowadays for some reason) or just get go away heat like Miz/Del Rio guys are getting. If you want to make it work, you gotta make him overtly push the product straight down people's throat, 100% shill 100% of the time, Tebow levels of selflessness to the point he gets on your nerves, RTC level censorship of anything not good for the kids in order to keep the network happy, etc. He needs to be the anti-villian, so good-too-shoes you just wanna smack him.
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Triple H having every member of the TNA roster line up one by one to take a Pedigree as the final image of TNA would be kinda cool, I think. Go for it Hunter!
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99% of the time, the WWE's biggest problem is missing the little opportunities to make new stars. If you have Ambrose come down and make the save last night, he'd be so fucking over the crowd would stop giving one shit if Bryan and Punk are gone. Even editing out the "Is that all you got" is all the replays was ridiculous. And on the Heyman thing, thinking "if he mentions Lesnar alot, the heat will roll over to Cesaro" was such a backwards way of thinking. Really, it just makes him look like Curtis Axel 2.0. If he had been paired with Lana the night after Mania instead, shit would be nuclear at this stage. Instead they give Lana to Rusev, who'll they'll get tired of eventually too. The WWE creative is so happy with just having a certain status quo and just FORCING you to have to break through in spite of their ineptitude. What other sport has ever been AGAINST creating more more stars. Just like the NBA,NFL, etc, the more recognizable faces in the company the better, there's no other logic way to go about it. The idea you need to hold do guys to not have "too many main eventers" is dumb as shit.
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If they keep Parons and add Bosh, that is still a very poor defensive team. Bosh is an ok defender, but can he guard Duncan, Dirk, Griffin, Aldridge, etc out west every night? Not likely.
The idea is that he doesn't have be a showdown defender, just cover enough so Howard can protect the rim.
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I know it could end pretty well, but I must say for right now I don't like Rollins turning. I think the timing was off. The way it was done made it seem much less of a bigger deal than it could/should be somehow. I mean, you beat them 3-0, and you have the beautiful moment of them together after the match and then the turn comes the very next night. Why sacrifice yourself for the "cause" like that and dive off a fucking titantron if you're going to turn on them 24 hours later?
Plus, Hunter's been saying all along that "all would be forgiven if they just rejoined the Authority" and Rollins was the leader anyway so he could have left any time. And then the fact that Batista quit on the same night makes it feel like they only went with Rollins as a last resort and after all he's done in the Shield, the first time Hunter came running he just jumped immediately. Not saying I felt Shield shouldn't have broken up, just this angle devalues their whole run as group IMO.
Plus, I feel like Rollins is clearly a better face to the WWE audience. He's what they had in Jeff Hardy before he left. He was the least over member during their heel run, but he got over after the turn because of the 3 he has the best babyface look and moveset. I know he could pull it off in RoH and NXT but I feel for a WWE audience, they won't take him as serious being a dastardly heel the same way he has as a fantastic highspot guy. I feel like there was much better way the book this break-up. Even if they had gone with both Ambrose and Rollins both turning on Reigns and joining Evolution cause they felt Reigns wanted the spotlight too much, I would have loved it. But I don't see just Rollins turning heel working out very well. He was the least likely guy to turn for a reason. Cause his long-term prospects as a hell are the worst IMO>
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Is it strange that when I saw DB motioning for someone in the crowd to get in the ring, I thought it was Punk so they could recreate the WM20 moment? It's amazing how they basically completely recreated that moment with just the one guy this time. How does this rank in terms of Mania moments? It's gotta be top 3 with Austin WM14 and Michaels WM12, I don't know what ordrer though.
As for Brock/Taker, I was shocked, but once I saw the third F5 I knew it was over. The throwback to Taker beating Kane with 3 Tombstones immediately popped into my head. I guess Taker's never really wanted to keep the streak cause every year you see reports about him wanting someone he thought deserved it to break it, just don't think it did anything for Brock. Would have much preferred for it to be Shield or Wyatts taking him out to pasture. I know people say Brock was chosen cause he already had the credibility, but ultimately the only reason I think it won't hurt him is because the joy of Bryan winning could only be dampened by shooting a baby in the crowd at this point.
Also don't see why anyone would think Cena should lose. He beat Rock last year, the build-up was about his legacy, no way he was gonna lose, just shocked he didn't get a bigger spot on the card. It's still do alot for Wyatt too. This being the official show the start the "Network Era" is the best thing Hunter and Steph could possibly do. Everybody who needed to look like stars to put this whole new generation idea came out better than one could even expect.
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If you want a "wait and see camp" response to tonight, it's that only about a quarter of the Rumble winners in the past 10 or so years has actually been in the final match on the card at Mania and Bryan could still win the shot from Batista and may just be a matter of this being in Batista's contract. But I doubt it, mostly since Batista's tweets make it clear to me he wouldn't be willing to job to guy like Bryan and he holds the cards right now really. DB needs a pipe bomb or he's more or less fucked. Punk took his ready made feud away from him, Batista took his main event slot, he was probably better off as a Wyatt if he wanted a chance at the Taker slot, and HBK still feels like a pipedream. DB vs Ambrose for the US Title ftw~!
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#30 will win the Rumble this year. They're gonna use that to tie Vince back into the angle. Either Hunter gives it to himself, or Orton/Batista as his representative and that person wins or DB/Bray gets 30 and wins and it's revealed that Vince is either behind the Wyatts (who abducted Kane) or is behind Kane being in Authority and is on Bryan's side now. Ambrose will eliminate Reigns and Taker will return and eliminate Ambrose, with Reigns leaving the Shield and either he or Ambrose will face Taker at Mania (You'll probably get Ambrose/Reigns or a Shield Triple Threat for the right to face Taker). Punk runs the gauntlet down to the final 6, and is eliminated by Hunter or a Hunter crony to set up Punk/HHH at Mania, and Bryan will leave EC #1 contender for Mania either by winning the Rumble and defending the shot or by beating the Rumble winner for the shot.
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#30 will win the Rumble this year. They're gonna use that to tie Vince back into the angle. Either Hunter gives it to himself, or Orton/Batista as his representative and that person wins or DB/Bray gets 30 and wins and it's revealed that Vince is either behind the Wyatts (who abducted Kane) or is behind Kane being in Authority and is on Bryan's side now. Ambrose will eliminate Reigns and Taker will return and eliminate Ambrose, with Reigns leaving the Shield and either he or Ambrose will face Taker at Mania (You'll probably get Ambrose/Reigns or a Shield Triple Threat for the right to face Taker). Punk runs the gauntlet down to the final 6, and is eliminated by Hunter or a Hunter crony to set up Punk/HHH at Mania, and Bryan will leave EC #1 contender for Mania either by winning the Rumble and defending the shot or by beating the Rumble winner for the shot.
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For all the people claiming this is them aborting the original plan, how else could they run the angle longer unless taking Bryan out of the main event was the plan? If they were planning to de-push him, they'd have just kept it going, and if they plan to pull the trigger on him, they had to end the angle before the Rumble which is two weeks away, so it either had to be this week or next week really. There's a clear difference in the booking with Hunter in more power than 2 or 3 years ago, they've clearly been booked with long term in the mind with most of the angles for the last 6-8 months actually.
With that being said, at this point Orton has attacked Cena so many times, they might as well run an angle that Cena Sr. is Orton's real dad and Cowboy Bob just adopted him hence he hates him and goes into a blind rage whenever he sees him. That's the only way people will care at this point.
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This argument is dumb for a myriad of reasons, but the biggest one is simply the fact that Ryback wasn't even the guy's first gimmick or quasi-main event run. The fact he had his run as Skip Sheffield in the Nexus should kill idea of him being a main eventer dead since:
1) Him getting injured is a big part of what made the angle no longer work (hence he's not dependable, so Vince would never put the belt on him and give him a bigger workload after he couldn't handle the workload of being protected in a 8 man group)
2) He was in the ring with top stars constantly during that run (and hurt people in that run as well) so he really had no excuse for being as green as he was and still is.
3) If he had such great charisma he would have found himself in the #2 turncoat role of Nexus but nobody was ever really clamoring for him to get in that spot (that went to DB and then Otunga for God's sake).
4) HE WAS THE LEAST OVER WRESTLER ON NXT SEASON 1 BY MILES. He wasn't competing with the Cena's and Taker's of the world. He was on a show with 8 other complete unknowns on an even playing field and couldn't get a soul to notice him organically to save his life. So what makes you think he has the required it factor to be WWE champion? Even if he was over, it clearly wasn't anything he was doing right.
His push against Punk was no different than the flavour of the week heels Cena and Hogan get fed during long title reigns or what Flair used to get for his NWA title reigns. He was never EVER gonna touch that belt, they just needed a guy to keep Punk busy. Saying "he was over, why not give him the belt" is like saying "hey, Earthquake was over after he squashed Hogan that one time, why not give him the belt?". Cause it makes no goddamn sense in the long run.
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The last segment wasn't so much at problem as the first segment for me. I mean, it's dumb of Bryan to come out in the first place but at least he fought off the Shield for a while and it took HHH tricking him (AGAIN) to get him down. At the end of the day though, I can handle my super-faces being dumb, it's just the trade-off. But the first segment made DB come off as a whiny bitch who won't really do shit. "Fire me! I'll go back to selling shirts out of my car!" wasn't really good enough or even cool. And not even beginning to try to fight off the guard was lame. At least have him break some shit backstage or something. For a character with serious anger issues, he was pretty compliant beyond slapping the mic out of Stephanie. That was probably the best promo of her career. The bitchy queen bee stuff, she's not very good at. But HR Manager bullshit speak comes so natural to her.
I also hope the Shield with the McMahons isn't a long term thing. It should be more or less, we'll do your bidding for now, but once we're tried of having our fun beating down the roster, we still have the ultimate plan of taking over and that includes stepping on the McMahons.
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The last segment wasn't so much at problem as the first segment for me. I mean, it's dumb of Bryan to come out in the first place but at least he fought off the Shield for a while and it took HHH tricking him (AGAIN) to get him down. At the end of the day though, I can handle my super-faces being dumb, it's just the trade-off. But the first segment made DB come off as a whiny bitch who won't really do shit. "Fire me! I'll go back to selling shirts out of my car!" wasn't really good enough or even cool. And not even beginning to try to fight off the guard was lame. At least have him break some shit backstage or something. For a character with serious anger issues, he was pretty compliant beyond slapping the mic out of Stephanie. That was probably the best promo of her career. The bitchy queen bee stuff, she's not very good at. But HR Manager bullshit speak comes so natural to her.
I also hope the Shield with the McMahons isn't a long term thing. It should be more or less, we'll do your bidding for now, but once we're tried of having our fun beating down the roster, we still have the ultimate plan of taking over and that includes stepping on the McMahons.
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First off, as much shit as we give WWE/Vince/the writers, how friggin' brilliant is this Cena-Bryan angle. It's almost like Vince knew way back when he started calling it "sports entertainment" that at some point in the future someone would get way over by calling himself a "Wrestler". So you've got Bryan calling himself a "Wrestler" denouncing John Cena, proclaiming his love of wrestling. Then you've got John Cena coming out and calling out Bryan for celebrating his past accomplishments with a brilliant NFL/Arena Football analogy and saying that he loves the WWE. Basically, you're running a smarks vs marks feud, and no one is the wiser that they're being worked. The guys who go to shows and chant "You can't wrestle!" and bemoan the lack of push for Bryan are completely and utterly being worked and don't even realize it. Then you throw in Vince, Stephanie, Triple H, add in the Randy Orton element, and the Shield as wildcards (FTR, well in advance of the PPV, here's my theory after Bryan-Cena, Shield comes out and beats the winner down, Orton cashes in MITB, eventually you get the reveal that Orton and the Shield work for Vince, and the Shield have ALWAYS worked for Vince, all the way back to last year). It's pretty brilliant stuff. I honestly don't remember the last time a main event program was worked so smartly and written so well.
Wasn't Vince the one that revealed the Shield worked for Heyman and was going to fire him for it? I don't necessarily think they need to need to say the Shield always worked for Vince especially when Vince was against Punk using the Shield during his title run. But I do think the angle will have Shield and Orton/Vince in cahoots after Monday's angle. Orton is so boring right now I think he needs the Shield to bring the excitement factor to any WWE Title run he gets. Vince, Orton and the Shield as the Corporation/Corporate Legacy sounds way more interesting than just a Vince/Orton pairing. The idea of DB/Cena/Henry/HHH vs. Orton in the Shield Survivor Series Elimination Match is fantastic.
Colt Cabana's Art of Wrestling Podcast
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
Posted
I don't see how they are. He did throw a fit, take his ball and go home. He only really told his employer once he had left. Telling your employer that you're burned out is not the same as saying "I'm leaving." I can go to work and tell my boss that I'm burned out but it doesn't mean that I'm leaving.
I'm arguing that Punk being fired proves that there had to be some kind of employment relationship there. I don't buy the whole "I was fired so I wouldn't get royalties" thing. Unless WWE contracts are total bullshit, being fired does not terminate your right to royalties.
This is why you actually needed to listen to the whole thing. You need to remember the contract is in place to protect both parties, not just WWE. He fulfilled all his dates by the Rumble, so even though he was under contract, he didn't have to show up for the events, but the contract still wouldn't expire till July. But his side of the perks, i.e royalties, etc would still be owed to him. What he got send on his wedding day, was termination papers, saying that in January he breached his contract, making it null and void and entitling him to nothing related to said contract, which was total bullshit. But since there was technically no breach, WWE had to fulfill EVERYTHING in the contract, the same way Punk did.