Kev
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Posts posted by Kev
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I think Kane may have squashed both Hardys early in his run, although not sure if it was an actual match, I just remember a double choke slam spot being used in video packages.
I can’t actually think of any title matches between them, but there was the fairly high-profile Kane-Matt feud over Lita years later.
On a similar theme, what would be some of the most WTF squashes in hindsight? Future stars on the losing end against guys who flamed out/became career jobbers themselves?
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6 hours ago, Craig H said:
Andrade/La Sombra is legit one of the most exciting guys to watch. Part of what made his run to the NXT title and his run as being champion so great was that you could tell he was totally unleashed. I can't think of anyone else who worked that perfectly and made everything they did look so fucking violent.
I’m sure I’ve seen it criticised on here before, but my favourite bit of Andrade offence is the running kick fake-out into a back elbow because it always has this balance of fluidity mixed with almost sloppiness, which makes it look violent. It’s one of the few signature counter to a counter moves that I think actually works because it looks like he’s legitimately going for the kick and it would hurt if the opponent didn’t move. Almost as though he’s throwing the strike in a way to increase the chances of success, rather than the success of the strike relying on the opponent reacting in a specific way.
I basically made this point earlier in the thread when the rumours first broke, but in terms of credibility moving between companies I think he’s right in a sweet spot. I don’t think he was around long enough to just be seen as a midcarder, he still felt like a future breakout star. He didn’t stick around forever to become JAG like a Ryder, and he doesn’t have the stink of a main event run, like a Swagger. I think him being the one to make the jump also helps, even in kayfabe that’s a lot easier sell as a sort of ‘I wasn’t waiting around for my chance’ thing.
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Ah right, think your original reply was in the wrong thread.
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24 minutes ago, AxB said:
They probably would have done, only they had the 80s version of the Speaking Out movement and he got blacklisted.
Not to go all sleaze thread but what’s this about? Santana?
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Yeah, I think it has to be, between shorter/more reigns and how WWE basically became the only game in town for so long.
If you transported the guys from the cards I mentioned back to the mid-90s then there’s no way they’re all in the same promotion, likely spread across at least WWF, WCW and ECW, and therefore not appearing on the same cards, and it would get more scattered the further back you went.
Its hard to do like for like comparisons across eras but I’d argue someone like Ziggler is comparable to Santana in terms of tenure and value to the company, but Ziggler’s probably got about 4x the midcard/tag title reigns, plus a couple world title reigns. I’d guess that on average, the modern day wrestler is (kayfabe) a lot more decorated than their predecessors.
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1 hour ago, Shartnado said:
The "on paper" super stacked card of Halloween Havoc 1998 got me thinking, what would be some of the most kayfabe stacked cards with most former-, current- and future (as of today) world champions on them?
My instinct is the 01-04 era where you had the former top WCW guys gradually coming in, plus the likes of Eddie, Edge, Cena, etc. in the midcard. Looking at the Manias around then, the most stacked looks like XX, I got 22 WWE world champs in matches, plus Austin as a ref, an Impact champ (Bubba), ROH (Noble) and NWA (Conway). I’m not sure on women’s title reigns, but you’ve got at least 3 there as well (Sable, Molly, Victoria).
Some of the multi-man match PPVs (Survivor Series, Eliminatuon Chamber, MITB) during a brand split have got to be high as well. Looking at Survivor Series’ in the late 00s early 10s, the most I got was 19 (if we count Matt Hardy’s WWECW reign).
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6 minutes ago, The Natural said:
Invisible Hand pulling the strings? EVP Kenny Omega using that position?
Maybe they convinced the commission by letting them know the end explosion would be a dud, it all makes sense now.
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The pedant in me demands to know, how come the main was not sanctioned but an exploding barbed wire death match was?
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I’m a couple days late and I haven’t read the thread yet so I’m sure I’ll be repeating taking points here but here’s my thoughts:
Ooof, Cody-Penta wasn’t very good was it? Cody kinda killed off all his finishers in quick succession, then got a pin straight off Penta’s arm breaker for good measure. Cody is just massively inconsistent in terms of character work and in-ring.
The Callis-Bucks promo would have been good 6 months ago but made no sense considering they’ve been tag champs for almost 5 months.
Jade squash was fine, liked the wild German, I’d just let Jade pad out her record with quick squashes and try to show off some different strength/athleticism spots for a couple of months. Try not to expose her with too much competitive stuff yet.
MJF stable promo was good, Spears again stood out like a sore thumb though, who picked his suit FFS.
10 man was fine. I think pretty much everything about Private Party works better as heels. Marko continues to show nothing to justify why he should be there, he really needs to be doing something more impressive than missile dropkicks to come off as even the most minor threat.
Nice promos from Mox/King & Christian.
Tag was ok, Good Brothers just aren’t very interesting though. Still have no interest in conflicted face Bucks in this story, a Bucks/Good Brothers match isn’t an exciting prospect and I’m not sure where else you go with this. I still maintain that a swerve and heel turn is the much better direction for them.
I don’t think Jake really adds anything to Archer at this point, and may even be slightly detrimental, particularly when he’s standing there at the same height talking about him as a monster. I’d like to think there’s still a place for him but I can’t think of who he’d work well with.
Fenix/Angelico was cool while it lasted, love how Angelico gets across his submission style and makes it feel like a clash of styles every time he shows up.
I think they’re actually gradually heating up Miro quite nicely now. The hopefully impending split with Kip feels long overdue despite them not really being a team that long.
Nice main, they really let them go all out, the finish in particular looked killer.
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Did I miss a Fire Thunder Driver mention?
Pretty much every driver is cool isn’t it? Are there any bad drivers? Either names or the moves themselves?
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2 hours ago, Technico Support said:
Pet peeve: unless I'm totally incorrect, which is ALWAYS a possibility, there is no such thing as a "Tiger Bomb." There is a "Tiger Driver" (Pearl River Plunge) and a "Black Tiger Bomb" (Splash Mountain) but I'm watching Beyond Wrestling and the announcer keeps calling the Tiger Driver a "Tiger Bomb" and I want to throw my TV out the window.
I always thought a tiger bomb was the none sit-out version, basically a powerbomb with the undertook setup like Malenko would use.
I always like the destroyer name (Canadian or otherwise), but the move has been overused/nearfall’d to the point it doesn’t deserve its name anymore.
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7 hours ago, DEAN said:
Lamest- Greetings From Asbury Park
I take umbrage with this. I always thought that was cool, I can’t fault a Springsteen reference.
On that note, what about move names that reference songs/musicians?
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Yeah, fair enough, I’m probably substituting larger-than-life for goofy/gimmicky here.
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49 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:
Larger than life =/= too silly for life.
Sorry, not sure whether I’m misunderstanding your point or my point has been a bit lost as I was cross referencing another thread. I’m not suggesting a larger than life character doesn’t work (wrestling is full of examples proving otherwise), but there was a point in the other thread about larger-than-life characters still working better when they’re linked to a relatable narrative or relatable characteristics.
In the couple of appearances I’ve seen, I think Itoh’s character works in a vacuum, but seems to be a slightly one dimensional wacky character. If you flesh that out with more on her interesting backstory and even the stuff about her hard head (seems to be a couple of different explanations in the thread but either works depending on which way they want to take her character) then you’ve got a much more compelling character which helps when trying to get her over to a wider audience.
It goes back to probably my main criticism of AEW, which is bringing in guys relatively cold and relying on the audiences existing knowledge of them as indie/international stars (which in some cases is only gonna be a small portion of the audience).
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All this stuff about Itoh’s background is interesting and, if she is gonna have a longer run, it’s exactly the type of stuff they should do video packages on to bring the audience up to speed on.
It links to the discussion about larger-than-life vs. relatability in the main monthly thread. She’s been introduced as this larger-than-life but slightly one dimensional wacky character, if you add that backstory of overcoming past failures and being on this sort of redemption arc then it fleshes out her character and could make her more relatable to a wider audience.
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1 hour ago, Eoae said:
I was just watching Marko Stunt hitting a ridiculously co-operative looking head scissors on QT Marshall. In comparison, these 3 seconds are my platonic ideal for undersized dude hitting credible looking flying offence on a bigger guy.
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Dynamite and Dark Elevation were my first time seeing Maki Itoh. Clearly massively charismatic and I thought she was pretty smooth in-ring at times, but then some of her stuff just looked really bad. Her strikes, in particular, looked comically weak to the point I was thinking it must be deliberate for whatever reason.
Also, is there some sort of back story to her hard head gimmick? Having this little cutesy character have a gimmick that’s traditionally been associated with savage characters is quite funny, but it seems a bit strange that it’s seemingly being played relatively straight.
She’s probably charismatic enough to overcome it, but it again feels like they’ve introduced someone relatively cold when they could have benefited from a bit more build/backstory.
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Being in the UK, I’m always a day or 2 behind by the time I catch up, so my hot takes are more mild at best once I get to the thread, but nonetheless.
I generally think Omega’s been handled well in AEW, but this was the first time I really thought he shouldn’t be a top guy. His whole presentation here just came off as cheap and inauthentic. I actually like some of these things as heel touches (the dancers, the douchey outfits, the entourage) but all together it just didn’t work for me here. Honestly, I think the key is to just limit his mic time, it works in short doses but this was too much. I think he could do with upgrading his back up as well, I still think they should align The Bucks with him as they’re not likeable as faces.
This was the most impressed I’ve been with Sky. It helps that he has Darby bumping for him but I much preferred him as de facto heel, with the relatively simplistic and vicious offence. Much better than being generic athletic face, he really didn’t stand out in that role considering you have the likes of Fenix on the roster doing much more impressive stuff. Still not convinced he has much more upside but this was a positive step.
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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:
Foley's title win?
Yeah, this was my first thought. Maybe it wasn’t actually that well done considering the ref doesn’t bother to check what’s happening as Austin’s music plays. But you can’t argue with those pops and the joy of the win.
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Andrade has to be a no-brainer for AEW (assuming he wants to go). Maybe strange to say but I think he’s just in the sweet spot for guys WWE misused (and I think this applies for Black too). He’s still young enough that he (hopefully) hasn’t peaked. I think he was genuinely well booked in NXT, so there is somewhat of a precedent for him as a top guy in the US. There was flashes of him being treated as a future star on the main roster. Although he had a 2-3 year run, he had spells out so he’s never really gotten stale and fell into JAG territory. I think the fact that he never really got a shot at the main event even works in his favour as it genuinely seems like they’re losing a future star, rather than someone jumping ship after reaching their ceiling in WWE.
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A couple of thoughts I just remembered.
This is a nitpick as I like all the teams I’m gonna mention but, considering how deep the tag division is, I wonder if they’re going to the well too many times giving shots to relatively new/makeshift teams (Page/Omega, PAC/Fenix, Jericho/MJF).
I don’t think Wight understands the concept of a clue. Using the debuting guy’s, as yet unused, new catchphrase as a tease makes no sense. Part of his scoops gimmick should be him giving completely illogical clues, maybe throw in a dash of overhype. “Up next we have a BEAST of a Dynamite debut from someone who could be the Next Big Thing in AEW...it’s Ryzin, who you may know from losing dozens of matches on Dark.
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9 minutes ago, Krone Meltzer said:
I would normally agree with you, but they just did that with Brian Cage at the last "#1 contenders ladder match". Granted that was like 9 months ago now, but I'm also not a huge fan of the "surprise always has to win" route.
Ah yeah, agree I wouldn’t have had him win here, I was speaking more generally about needing to win, I just wouldn’t have had him in at all.
I’ve not really seen much of him but I’m guessing he’s a bit more of a character guy, given the nickname. It reminds me of NXT bringing in EC3 in a ladder match a few years back.
For someone who’s biggest exposure is Impact, I really wouldn’t be bringing them in ‘blind’ unless it’s someone who’s gonna get over with movez.
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The multi-man ladder match is a completely dead gimmick at this point and I thought it was really stupid having one here. It really didn’t feel like the reward was worth the risk. I defended Janela getting a title shot recently and I like how they mostly did open challenges with Cody, but that just made this feel more out of place. Why put your body through this when any one of these guys could feasibly get a shot anyway?
If you’re gonna use one of these to debut someone you need them to win it or be a big spot guy that can do something ridiculous to get over. That did nothing for Page.
I assumed the awkward waiting on the ramp was because we were getting a Cody turn where he feigns injury before stealing the victory, but it was just awkward.
I know they gave Sky a bit of a push early on, but he hasn’t done anything of note in ages and he really doesn’t feel like someone who has much of a higher ceiling. It’ll really have been an underwhelming run for Darby if he loses on Wednesday.
So presumably Mox was meant to be written off for paternity leave here. I’m assuming they’ll not have him go out on that ending so there’ll maybe be an injury angle on Dynamite over the next few weeks where they can re-do Kingston’s redemption in someway. Maybe have Kingston take some kind of hit for Mox, only for them to take out Mox afterwards anyway. Keep it simple with a Pillmanizer or something. Then have a half injured King seeking revenge while Mox is out.
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5 hours ago, ReiseReise said:
I also hate shitty sitout moves and shitty pin attempts were wrestlers lean on opponents with their back adding a leg hook and it doesn't look like there is any pressure / leverage on the opponent.
My main issue with those pins is they’re almost always used close to the ropes and completely telegraph the foot on the rope spot. I don’t know why more guys don’t make the opponent grab the rope instead to make themselves look like less of an idiot.
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AEW Dynamite (3/31/21)
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
Posted
That was really fun wasn’t it. A QT Marshall angle and it was good! I’m hoping it’s more of a vehicle for the younger guys and he fades into a coach role, but either way that was a good start. It almost had a vibe of the Nexus debut, with the young guys breaking out unexpectedly with a violent beat down.
Most promising thing from the Inner Circle/Pinnacle angle for me is the prospect of Santana/Ortiz as faces, thing they could be really fun as shit-talking ass kickers.
Really fun main, I enjoy these main event blow offs for mid card angles, everyone came out looking good and a nice feel-good ending. Having actual decent music always adds something extra in wrestling, rather than the shitty metal fare that tends to be the norm.
A couple of previous comments mentioned that it’d be a mistake to turn the Bucks heel. Why? What am I missing?
The Bucks aren’t likeable face characters (moreso because of Matt’s dreadful acting, Nick is pretty inoffensive). I think there’s more interesting match-ups on the face side for them beyond the PAC/Fenix match (Jurassic Express, Best Friends, Silver/Reynolds, face Santana/Ortiz, Mox/King). Plus, it always felt like the Bucks were the dicks in the early Hangman story, although they muddied it a bit around the FTR angle. Having them aligned with Kenny would make more sense to me if they are gonna bring the Hangman story full circle.