joseph2112
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Posts posted by joseph2112
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23 hours ago, West Newbury Bad Boy said:
As you've said on multiple occasions, you took a 15ish year break from watching wrestling. As a result of that, I would suggest your assessment of Jericho's time in WWE is somewhat limited and off the mark.
With Jericho, going back to the middle of the '00s there seemed to be some fairness to the idea that he'd been mishandled because he'd never received a firm commitment in terms of the company pushing him as a tippy-top guy. But once he caught on, he was always heavily featured and given match and promo time during that run. He was almost always an integral part of their roster. From 2008-2010, I'd argue he put in a run that rivals his time in WCW. Almost every time he came back from a hiatus, he was constantly getting chances to express his creativity, from dramatic new looks to wordless promos to the List and so on. There were things along the way that he took as missteps or slights, like the Fandango feud or his match with Owens not being for the Universal title. But on the whole, it's reductive to suggest he was "badly mishandled" (your words) and didn't get to express his creativity. WWE is certainly produced to more rigidly conform to a single person's vision, but you're really writing off a lot of high-quality work at the highest levels that stemmed from Jericho's personal input just because it happened in that company. I'm happy he feels more creatively fulfilled now, but I'm sure there are a lot of talents in WWE who wish they could be as "badly mishandled" as Chris Jericho was for 18 years.
I agree with this assertion. In an alternate universe I wonder what would have happened if you swap HHH's push with Jericho's. My take is that business would have been substantially better, and I would have enjoyed it more.
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6 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:
My thing about Jordan's leadership though: a whole lot of guys were the best player and leader of teams that won titles, and you don't hear their teammates talk about them like that. That "I kinda hate him but it worked thing."
I mean, I know there definitely were times where the Lakers probably hated Magic, but nobody talks about him like that. The only people who don't talk about Isiah that way are his teammates who almost to a man appear to legitimately love him (well, except AD.) Larry Bird's teammates... Hell, Bill Russell won almost twice as many titles as MJ and his teammates still seem to be actual friends with him.
Kobe probably was the same way (though right now you'll have a hard time finding anyone that wants to talk about that, for obvious reasons) and Kareem for the first half of his career before Magic got him to loosen up a little.
Overall I'm loving this documentary, but Michael Jordan does not, in any way, come across like a mentally healthy, well adjusted adult.
FWIW, there are lots of stories about Kobe being almost exactly like Jordan, especially at practice.
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IIRC, the last time they made the wildcard rule, it was on the fly with little to no explanation, and the rules that were explained were quickly broken. It could work if they actually put some effort into writing stories around it.
Spoiler: They won't.
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5 minutes ago, RIPPA said:
God - tonight is turning into a reset show
Great, they're going to ruin survivor series.
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I did 20 years in the USMC and the goal of leadership is always mission accomplishment and then troop welfare. It's fascinating to me that Jordan's leadership style closely resembled that. I don't have to tell anyone the difference between decisions in the military and the NBA but I was clearly getting that vibe.
I forgot about the SI cover with Jordan "embarrassing" minor league baseball, what a joke. Minor league baseball has two objectives, make money and develop players. Trying to win is what they do, but nobody, including the parent clubs in the MLB really care if they win or not. So if I'm a team owner that can field at least a semi-competent player that can probably double my season revenue? That's a no-brainer.
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31 minutes ago, Hagan said:
Didn’t want to quote tweet but Craig’s post about the Kenny jobber match was 100 percent and more importantly it’s the story the announcers told during the match. Schiavone and Jericho both talk about how Kenny’s getting the ring rust off, getting the reps. They treated it like practice. Then when the guy tagged Kenny he got murdered with the V-Trigger.
It’s no different than hearing about boxing sparring matches where the champ is laying back and just warming up and the sparring partner tags him and has to be dropped.
And honestly, "wrestler X won a match easily but gave jobber too much offense to be seen as a big star" is a quintessentially dumb 2020 wrestling talking point.
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1 hour ago, SorceressKnight said:
Even if there was no one else...the whole thing doesn't seem to pass the smell test for a true screwjob even with all of that into play.
I'm not sure, but even if they're covered in a full body suit, a woman in her 20s in peak physical condition would probably look a little bit different than a woman in her 60s in the same body suit, and if Richter was suddenly across the ring from a woman in her 60s, it'd be...kind of safe to say "this is obviously Moolah, and the fix is in" and be able to get out of dodge long before that happens.
My thought all along was she knew it was Moolah the whole time and the screwjob was the finish. Maybe they told Richter she would pin Moolah and she would unmask and get a pop from the crowd.
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1 hour ago, Smelly McUgly said:
People were talking briefly in the last monthly thread about how much WCW in the late '90s aped WWF.
What's bigger than China, Bish? We need to go big here.
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11 minutes ago, Oyaji said:
As for why buy now, I'm guessing the price would be a bit lower than it normally would be otherwise, no? Or at least, the likelihood of Vince settling for something a little less than his likely outrageous starting number would be higher.
I would say it would have to be more than just a bit lower. This would be the definition of "selling low".
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1 minute ago, Serious Darius Bagfelt said:
Different than any job in what way? I now report to a guy with 5 years less senority, not a better work or attendance record than me, less education than me but he is a smoker like the top manager and they hung out everyday on the smoking deck. When the requirement came up for someone to oversee our shift came up who was asked? I'm not saying this will kill anyones push. I am explaining a potential mindset a segment of the talent may have right now. A bit of I am doing this now to help you so don't forget who bailed you out when times are better
Completely different than any of that. A situation that you work in a company with a well known history of putting "the brand" first, and you do anything to support the brand because that's what you do. and if you get sick or sneeze, much less ask for time off, your weak. You completely understand that if you "ask" for time off, you might very well might get sent packing. You are being forced to come to work, because of you don't, you understand through the history of the leadership of your company it's a bad thing.
None of this is a reach, in any way.
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15 minutes ago, Serious Darius Bagfelt said:
Highly unlikely anyone is being forced to work now. Thing is most are probably scared too because they fear a lack of push after or being a victim of out of sight out of mind
So if they don't wan't their push to go away they sort of have to work? Like, they are being sort of forced? I mean, no one has a gun to their head and is marching them to the performance center. I guess it depends on what "forced" means in this context.
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Here's a link to the above referenced, I think. It's about the XFL folding/Vince is a carney stuff. It looks like Vince woke up one morning and changed plans on the XFL, much like a Reigns Wrestlemania match.
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12 hours ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:
I'm guessing Vince isn't too worried about talent taking other bookings in the next few months. The chances of that happening seem slim, at best.
For the purposes of the conversation that was happening, what I'm saying is the WWE no longer holds any power over any of these people. He can't "make" them come back.
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1 minute ago, supremebve said:
At their peak, who was more famous Michael Jordan or Michael Jackson?
Wow, that's a brutal question. I'd say slight edge to Jordan, but I am more of a sports fan. I would really have to hear from other countries because I have no idea as far the NBA's popularity worldwide at that point.
What's your take?
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Here's the thing. Weather you are furloughed or released or whatever, if a company isn't paying you, you can do whatever the fuck you want. The same thing applies to a no compete clause. The WWE pays somebody 90 days to sit at home. If they want to go work somewhere else, they can. They just stop getting whatever that money is. You can't keep someone under contract and not pay them.
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Just starting "The Last Dance" and I can say something that is not something new. Not bringing this team back is the dumbest decision in sports history and people that defended it then or now are akin to flat earthers or Russo defenders.
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5 minutes ago, matt925 said:
If the nba is getting zero cash from their multi-billion dollar tv deals, it’s safe to say Vince was told the same thing. Not saying anything is justified, but if nba shuts down and makes zero than so does wwe.
I think the argument about the WWE wasn't them doing it at all, it was the live vs taped aspect. Going live every week in front of no crowd is just really dumb (unless there is some out for Fox/USA if there isn't a certain number of live shows, and the only thing fueling that rumor is speculation and a cryptic Meltzer tweet).
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2020 can fuck right off.
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4 hours ago, Brian Fowler said:
Thinking about something leads me to a question for hopefully fun discussion:
What was your biggest "I was such a mark" thing?
For me, it was Yellow Dog. In my defense, they didn't run cable down my road until 1994, so my only access to WCW was the official magazine, the other Apter mags, and, if I could manage to stay awake until I think 2 am Saturday night, Worldwide. So I saw a match where somebody (probably Windham?) was wrestling Yellow Dog, and Brian Pillman came out to ringside (my first guess is that it was probably Brad Armstrong under the hood in retrospect, since he was similarly sized, and WCW loved putting Brad under hoods) so I was completely convinced Pillman wasn't breaking the loser leaves stip, and Windham was just being a jerk claiming Yellow Dog was Flyin' Brian. It was just first time seeing the Midnight Rider/Charlie Brown from Outta Town/Mr. America angle.
It's not exactly the same, but I always remember when I was growing up, there was some obsession with wanting to see masked wrestlers get their mask ripped off. The face would start untying or pulling it and the crowd (and me) and even old school VKM would get amped about it. But thinking back on it, it's funny. Like, Masked Superstar is wrestling Andre and let's say he gets the mask pulled off to a pop. There would be me sitting there seeing Bill Eadie's face, but I would have had no idea who the hell Bill Eadie is.
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I think the current example would be the Ryback. He chose not to work.
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28 minutes ago, Brian Fowler said:
I'm curious if Vince is mad at Roman for of they just didn't mention him in order to not call attention to the last minute change.
If this eventually ends up with Roman out of the company... That's the final nail in squandering the most "can't miss kid" in two decades finished.
There's no way they would let him go. Now, I could see them for punishment doing something like pushing him near the top and then pulling the rug out at the last minute for years on end.
Wait, what?
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I know this isn't the collapsing of WWE, regardless of all of the recent setbacks. BUT: They are taking a large risk here for the sake of live vs taped shows. It's likely that someone else on the crew will contract the virus. It's not likely, but not impossible that someone could die. If that were to happen, things could get really, really ugly. And would be really tragic to boot.
I can't imagine even Vince thinking this risk is worth it. This is insane.
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They left out "and it is our belief that five weeks of taped shows would rip the very essence of humanity to the point of no return".
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If they taped 5 weeks of shows, thus leaving 4 weeks wherein Vince didn't have anyone to bully or storylines to change on an hourly basis, he would probably die.
MAY 2020 WRESTLING CHAT.
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING
Posted
I wonder if anybody in WWE actually understands real sports. When you get traded for "future considerations" in the real world, that means your a jobber and a team basically gave up on you. It's one step above just being fired or cut.