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Posts posted by Go2Sleep

  1. I haven't actually seen Punk vs. Jericho from Payback, but people on Twitter were shitting themselves over it. Was it that good?

    It was one of the last cuts off my top 20 along with HHH/Lesnar at Extreme Rules. If you like what Punk and Jericho have done the last 3 or 4 years, you'll like the Payback match. It's exactly what you'd expect from them doing basically a face v face formula, even though I guess Punk was supposed to kinda still be a heel. Personally, I thought the first half was slow and the finishing run was solid. Definitely Jericho's best match this year, although that's not saying a lot. Punk's obviously had several that were better. On a company-wide scale, it just didn't stand out too much. In a lesser year, it's probably a top 20, but not in 2013.

  2. Matt Sydal/Evan Bourne needed to be around during the heyday of WCW's cruiserweight division. An English-speaking white-meat babyface that could fly with the best of them. Instead he got stuck (and injured) in the time after WWE gave up on cruisers and before small indy guys like Punk and Bryan took off. 


    Nigel McGuinness wasn't necessarily in the wrong era, but he was definitely in the wrong promotion. He had all the charisma necessary to make it in WWE, and while he might have sacrificed a little bit in-ring going through WWE developmental instead of the indies, he at least wouldn't have killed himself with stupid bumps. Could you imagine if he got Wade Barrett's initial push? 


    John Cena's a guy who rose to the top of his era by sheer talent (and Lesnar deciding to pursue other activities), not because he was necessarily the best fit for his era. He would've been even bigger in the late 80s/early 90s. I mean, he could've rocked the territories too, but he would've killed it as a top face for either of the big two on the national stage.

  3. I'm more interested in the NOC/Battleground buys and house show gates since Cena's been hurt than Raw ratings. I'd expect Battleground to be subpar because the card looked like crap and I'd imagine very few people expected it to be a decisive show, but I'll be interested to see how they compare to recent years. HIAC would've been a great indicator as well until Cena was announced.

  4. The Roman/Bryan singles match from a few weeks ago was awesome. There are always those years in baseball when a guy wins MVP for being way better than expected on a good team (like Jimmy Rollins on the Phils in '07). Reigns is like that. That dude didn't do much of anything in the minors but he's a friggin' revelation in the WWE. If he was replaced with another smaller indie guy (not that Dean and Seth are small), they wouldn't have the same cachet. They need a muscle dude who has that unstoppable gimmick. Dare I say that his trash talk game has reached Mark Henry levels? 


    If you were to do end-of-year awards, Roman would win most improved so easily. He's gone from the guy that hides in all the matches until spear time, to an active contributor throughout. 


    But no one reaches Mark Henry levels of trash talk. Let's not be too quick to forget "I'ma whip you like you stole somethin' boy," and "Tell me a joke now!"

    • Like 1
  5. I think Cena winning the World title is a pretty good move at this point from a booking standpoint. Del Rio's done as much as he can to keep the belt worth something with how terribly it has been booked, but it's still gonna take a top-level guy to bring it back. A unification match down the road isn't a bad idea. I'd do that angle with Punk, personally, but Cena works too. The only concern I have with Cena is that he looks like he could be the next big wrestling tragedy the way he rushes back from injuries. He has to be putting a lot of bad things in his body to do that. 


    I have no idea what they're doing with the Bryan/Orton program, especially with Show already attacking HHH. Not sure why they wouldn't save that for HIAC, or blown it off at Battleground last night. That's a ppv moment, not a Raw moment. It's obvious someone (probably Vince) is backing him up, so I guess the endgame is HHH/Show at the ppv? Maybe? Shouldn't Bryan be the one to vanquish the evil HHH, though, as part of establishing him as the next big face? Luckily, Bryan has teflon overness, otherwise I'd say things might be looking a bit bleak for him with Show siphoning off some of his big heat moments and Cena coming back so soon. Wouldn't wanna rush to judgment after one show, though.

  6. 1. Punk vs. Lesnar (Summer Slam)

    2. Del Rio vs. Ziggler (Payback)

    3. Del Rio vs. Show - LMS (SD 1-11)

    4. Bryan vs. Rollins (Raw 6-10)

    5. Bryan vs. Cena (Summer Slam)

    6. Bryan/Usos vs. Shield (SD 9-20)

    7. Punk vs. Taker (Wrestlemania)

    8. Hell No/Kofi vs. Shield (Raw 5-20)

    9. Cena/Sheamus/Ryback vs. Shield (Elimination Chamber)

    10. Bryan vs. Orton - No DQ (Raw 6-24)

    11. Del Rio vs. Christian (Summer Slam)

    12. Punk vs. Cena (Raw 2-25)

    13. Usos vs. Rollins/Reigns (Money in the Bank, pre-show)

    14. Orton vs. Christian (Raw 8-19)

    15. Cody/Dustin vs. Rollins/Reigns (Battleground)

    16. Bryan vs. Swagger/Cesaro/Ryback - Gauntlet (Raw 7-22)

    17. Cesaro vs. Kofi (Main Event 5-1)

    18. Del Rio vs. Big Show - LMS (Royal Rumble)

    19. Orton vs. Big Show - Extreme Rules (Extreme Rules, the ppv)

    20. Hell No/Orton vs. Shield (SD 6-14)


    If you can field a top 20 that strong by the beginning of October, you know it's a good year. The individual MVP has to go to Bryan for his overness and consistency, but I think Rollins and Del Rio both deserve mention. Rollins is the best individual in the Shield which as a whole, has been a super-important act for WWE this year. His bumping and athleticism really provides most of the "flash" in Shield matches that takes them to the next level. Del Rio, while not only having two of the absolute best matches this year that will probably end up in MOTD discussion, has provided tremendous stability to the World title. While the belt has plummeted in value relative to the WWE title, Del Rio has kept it afloat and left the window open for a full recovery down the road. And of course, this entire conversation would be drastically different if Lesnar were full time.

  7. Better than NOC, but a pretty average show overall. 


    ADR/RVD was solid as the hardcore stip covered for lot of RVD's shittiness. There were a couple awful whiffed kicks, and the selling/transitioning wasn't the best, but the chair and ladder spots made for a good spectacle. The finishing spot was nice and put over Del Rio strong. Was this supposed to be RVD's last appearance?


    Surprised to see a match like Real Americans vs. Santino/Khali make ppv, but anything that's used as a vehicle to get Cesaro over is fine by me. If he turns face, he's the next big thing in WWE.


    Divas match was forgettable. AJ's awesome, but those other 3 can't act at all. Face Bellas just aren't working.


    Axel/Truth was exactly what you'd expect, although with that dropkick, Axel might move up from "irredeemably boring" to "Maven-esque."


    Shield/Rhodes family was easily the highlight of the show. Perfect formula tag with a happy ending. Ambrose and Dusty actually contributed in their roles. While not as flashy or life-threatening as his other bumps, Rollins did easily have the best Cross-Rhodes bump ever. I'm not sure how you'd transition to it, but I'd love for Dustin to be Del Rio's next challenger. 


    Kofi/Bray was a little better than expected. Nothing exciting most of the way, but the finishing run was a lot more inspired than I thought it would be. Killer dive by Kofi, and Bray adding that exorcist crawl to his arsenal was a good touch to his character. 


    Punk/Ryback was there. Love Ryback's new gimmick, but I'm still not feeling him in long matches against an even opponent. I would be interested a cell re-match if Heyman is in there massaging Ryback (to prepare him for the match of course, nothing else) then Punk sneaks out under the ring and chains the door shut and the match is built around Ryback trying to stop Heyman from getting killed. 


    The main event wasn't something that should be run when you're trying to establish a new guy as a ppv draw. Match was fine with a decent finishing stretch until Show's music hit. Why would they have him KO both guys fighting for the abeyanced title? This was a Raw ending, not a ppv ending. I keep telling myself "3 shows in 7 weeks, 3 shows in 7 weeks, but god damn that was a terrible finish to a ppv and no one came out of it looking good. And in kayfabe, why the hell is HHH leaving halfway through the ppv?

  8. According to some other spoiler report I read, Bray Wyatt vs Kofi Kingston and Curtis Axel vs. R-Truth for the IC Title were added to the Battleground PPV at the tapings as well. Full card:


    Daniel Bryan vs. Randy Orton - WWE Title

    Alberto del Rio vs. RVD - World Title

    Curtis Axel vs. R-Truth - IC Title

    Cody Rhodes/Goldust vs. The Shield - Tag Titles

    Brie Bella vs. AJ Lee - Divas Title

    CM Punk vs. Ryback

    Bray Wyatt vs. Kofi Kingston

    Dolph Ziggler vs. Damien Sandow - YOUTUBE PRESHOW


    What was the last WWE PPV that looked so underwhelming on paper as this one?



    It definitely looks like one of the old single-brand ppvs, but I'm sure it'll be better than NOC, just because there's potential for a few face wins this time.


    Bryan/Orton is a reliable combo, RVD/ADR should be fine with the hardcore gimmick, and Shield/Rhodes Family has a lot of potential. Speaking of, is that match actually for the tag titles, or just Cody and Dustin's jobs? On Raw, it didn't sound like the titles were on the line, but I didn't watch SD, so I don't know if it changed.


    Fake Edit: And before you ask why I'm posting in the SD thread on Saturday having not watched the show, it's because I was checking to see if any matches or segments were getting praised to help me decide if I should watch it or not. The spoilers sounded pretty skippable.

  9. Those Barrett videos rule.


    Wade Barrett: Is it true that no one knows who Johnny Curtis is?

    Johnny Curtis: I won NXT Season 4...

    Wade Barrett: No you didn't, Johnny Curtis won NXT Season 4!

    Johnny Curtis: I am Johnny Curtis...

    Wade Barrett: Huh, I guess it is true then.


    His new gimmick should be HHH's corporate interviewer/tv shill. Wade Barrett, investigative journalist!

    • Like 1


    However...  Orton. I don't understand why HHH paid Armstrong to fast count. Shouldn't Orton be more pissed at this than anyone? The only explanation I have seen from Steph/HHH is WE WANT YOU TO BE THE VIPER AGAIN...

    He paid him to fast count so he had a viable reason to take the belt off of Bryan. We are supposed to assume that it was only to be used in case of an emergency when Orton is clearly beat. I think the logical next step is Bryan wins on Sunday. Monday they try and take the belt from him again and this time Vince intercedes.



    I was thinking Bryan wins, then Orton attacks Brie on Raw to give the HIAC match a personal touch, but I don't know what the man-on-woman violence policies are these days. I guess I can see them putting focus back on Vince where he tells HHH that he has 3 more weeks for his master plan to work or he's indefinitely suspended as COO. 


    Either way, I'm pretty sure HIAC ends with Orton soundly beaten and HHH locked inside the cell with Bryan, Show, or The Shield.

  11. I just posted the Taker/Show No Mercy match in the "never talked about awesome matches" thread. 


    The Mayweather match has to be his career high point, though. 


    A couple others that haven't been mentioned are the first LMS with Del Rio from SD, and a hardcore match against Booker T at Vengeance 02.

    • Like 1

    This was when they were starting to get The Big Show's KO punch over, and what better way than to have him win a slugfest with Taker. Just two big dudes swinging away in not quite a sprint, but a really fast-paced match considering it's Taker and Show. Not a single resthold, just a lot of clubberin. Show bumped when he needed to, but never looked more dominant than he did when the match was over.

  13. Barrett's biggest problem is he hasn't improved significantly since his debut. He was pretty solid right out of the gate and that was plenty good enough in the wasteland (just realized this is a terrible pun after I typed it, but it's staying) that was 2010 WWE. In 2013 though, lots of other guys have improved their stock, while a few new guys have just stepped in being instantly better than Barrett. Being just above average in 2013 doesn't cut it like it did in 2010, hence the drop off for Wade. Ziggler has suffered from the same talent level rise to a lesser degree. 


    I mean, now Cesaro basically does everything they've asked Wade to do the past couple of years, except a million times better. In fact, now that I think about it, they should've totally teamed Cesaro with Barrett instead of Swagger. He's better than Jack in every way, and his promo skills could cover Antonio's one weak spot.

  14. There was the briefly awful period when he was feuding against the Dungeon of Doom where he went all black and more nasty in the ring after he got his mustache shaved. But whether that was the beginning of Hollywood is probably a reach.



    I had nearly forgotten the "dark side of Hogan" angle... Havoc 95 is one of the most hilariously bad ppvs of all time. But Hulk was back in the red and yellow for the subsequently awful "Alliance to end Hulkamania" program that culminated with triple cage match at Uncensored.

  15. I look at JBL as a slow progression to his character change. With the haircut and shave he took on a different look. Then it went from there. I mean its not like he got a haircut and a shave overnight and went all rich guy on us. I guess the same to be said about Surfer Sting to Crow Sting. From the bleach blonde buzz cut to the brown grown out hair. Sting might be another one that were discussing here. He went from gullible and all excited, "It's party time!! Owww!!" to silent ass kicker. He went from being all colorful to the drab black and white.


    Yeah, but that was really well built. It was just a case of the super good guy who always does the right thing getting shit on to the point where he finally snapped. It was like when Ned Flanders' house got destroyed by a hurricane, except the hurricane was everyone in WCW stupidly falling for the fake Sting gag, including supposed-best-friend Lex Luger who saw the impostor at close range.


    Hulk Hogan to Hollywood Hogan was a pretty big instant change. The only foreshadowing was that fans were already starting to resent Hulk in WCW.


    Taker returning from injury with long red hair, denim everything, and riding a motorcycle was pretty startling too. Although character-wise, he was heading towards Biker-taker right before he got hurt.


    Chavo forgetting Kerwin White ever existed right after Eddie died was very noticeable.

  16. All of these ideas are derived from the booking of the last 20 years that has instructed you that tag teams are a midcard attraction used as a launching pad for main eventers, and only deserve attention when two random main eventers are paired to squash the entire tag team division (who are supposed to be specialists at the style). It's bad booking, and if you want more of it, fine. But it's still bad booking.


    Have you ever thought that booking changed roughly 20 years ago because that's when tv time started to increase dramatically? 


    What would've lasted years in the 80s, struggled to last for more than one without getting stale by 2000. It's more practical to try to get mileage out of two over guys in singles instead of devoting double the resources to try to keep the tag division fresh while maintaining several established teams. This is just a case of people wanting wrestling to be like it was when they were kids, but it just doesn't work in the current setup. The only solutions are cutting down tv/ppv hours (not going to happen) and spending considerably more money on talent that cycles in and out of major tv time to ensure a consistent stream of fresh tag team programs (more plausible than the first scenario, but still not very likely). 


    I think the Usos have singles potential. All you have to do is make sure they wear different color tights. Not that I think it should happen any time soon, but an amicable split that results them winning the IC and US titles around the same time seems like a pretty easy midcard angle to book. As much as people long for the good old days, tag team wrestling is a dead end in WWE, and both of those guys should at least get a shot at singles.


    Just nonsense. The only reason either one should ever be pushed as a singles wrestler is if the other is injured or no longer with the company.


    Why should I care about a tag team when they'll inevitably split up in a year?


    This. Building up teams like the Usos or Los Matadores is the only way to get people to actually care about tag team wrestling. The prevailing attitude of "every team must split without exception" has had a detrimental effect on the business as a whole for two decades now, and I think Triple H is aware of that.



    If Los Matadores as currently advertised are an essential component for the future of tag team wrestling, we might as well just kill it now. The only way you could truly make tag team wrestling more important in WWE is to re-stock the division with proven main eventers kind of like they did during Jerishow's run. 


    The whole "detrimental effect on the business for two decades" thing is ridiculous hyperbole. The attitude boom was devoid of a decent tag scene until the tail end, and there were great tag scenes during the brand split that didn't have any appreciable effect on business. The tag team division is a midcard gimmick for midcarders in WWE. It's very useful for rounding out shows and getting a lot of guys their first break, and getting value out of guys that can't hack it at the upper midcard/main event singles level, but it's not a place you want guys to stay in forever. Eventually you have to see if your most over midcarders can take the next step, which involves splitting teams up. I'd happily endure the NAO and Dudley flame-out singles runs to ensure The Hart Foundation, The Rockers, The Steiners, Harlem Heat, The Hardys, E/C, etc didn't have to stay together forever. I'm not saying the Usos need to split up anytime soon. I'm saying if they stay over for a long period, it might be because they have some real charisma and that might translate to more value in a singles work. If it doesn't, the tag division will always be there waiting for them just like it was for The Dudleys.

  18. I think the Usos have singles potential. All you have to do is make sure they wear different color tights. Not that I think it should happen any time soon, but an amicable split that results them winning the IC and US titles around the same time seems like a pretty easy midcard angle to book. As much as people long for the good old days, tag team wrestling is a dead end in WWE, and both of those guys should at least get a shot at singles. I think the last team to be worth more as a unit than individuals for their entire careers was The Dudleys.


    As for this question, ADR is the best answer. It feels like he's fought every midcarder like 1000 times already. And even though I love Cesaro, I often skip Real American tags. Swagger's every bit as boring as Cesaro is awesome.


    Cody: Has anyone ever benefitted more from not being on tv? 


    First person that came to mind was Matt Hardy.



    The current top face in WWE. 


    Steph ruled the show again from the heel side of things. Her utility player speech to the Miz was great, but the line "The entire WWE is my personal space" was my favorite. Liked the no-hesitation punch to Miz, but I really wanted to get more use out of "Weepin' of Mass Destruction" this week. Oh well.


    The main event was oddly... Realistic I guess? I mean, as much as anything in pro wrestling is realistic. I'm sure most everyone expected a 3 on 3 at some point or even a 3 on 1 in favor of the Shield, but nope. They burned through the injured guys and the lowest-ranked jobbers, but Reigns was eliminated with 6 people left, Ambrose with 5, and then Rollins succumbed to a 4 on 1. I think what I've liked best about the past couple of weeks is that the Shield aren't playing the standard WWE cowardly heels. The odds have been against them, but they get in there and go down fighting anyways. As expected, Bryan as the ass-kicking leader is a million times better for a company-ace role than plucky underdog. I was hoping he'd be a little pissed off when he found out Orton harassed Brie, but that's a minor complaint.



    I don't understand why they are pushing the Usos more than the Primetime Players in this whole thing. The crowd is just dying for a reason to treat Titus O'Neil like a star. Usos are an ok team, but there is definitely no breakout star potential with the team like the PTPs have.



    Disagree here. The Usos are way more over than the PTPs currently, and I actually do think there's some singles potential. Based on **Total Divas** Jimmy seems like a really cool guy, or could at least convincingly play a really cool guy on tv. If they let him act like that, I could easily see crowds getting behind him. And if Jey is half as cool as his brother, he's a solid midcarder at worst. The whole twin thing is usually a dead end for both guys, but what I think they should do is start downplaying it. Have them wear different color tights and facepaint to get people used to telling them apart and starting to notice other differences. Then when it comes time to split them up (way down the line), they can do it without one turning on the other.


    I do think the PTPs have some potential, but they're several years away still. There's at least 15 guys who should be pushed ahead of them based on talent and/or overness, possibly more than 20. Considering card positioning only, the PTPs are the Hardy Boys in 2000 without the stand-out gimmick. Or a face version of 1996 Harlem Heat where Stevie Ray is the one who obviously needs the singles push. I like 'em, but they're a long ways off considering the other talent in the promotion right now.

  20. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNpHFhZrqzM


    I remember sitting there almost a few minute after RAW went off the air with my jaw on the floor. I mean, this was just brutal!




    Ah, yes, good old non-PG WWE... It's almost jarring to the senses after 5+ years away. To me, the end of this match was the craziest WWE beatdown I've seen. The lack of hesitation and casualness with which Austin and HHH attack Lita is disturbing. 



    On a lighter note, here's Shane McMahon getting his junk hooked up to a car battery:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8gUqQG8oZ-8


    I'm trying to find a clip of the beatdowns Kaientai would do to much larger guys right before they debuted.  They'd run in ridiculously quick, do some really fast stuff followed by a Togo senton, then rush right out.



    Gotta dig through those 98 Raws to find Kai En Tai beating up Bradshaw, but in the meantime, here's one of my faves, a more 2005-ish lucha version of what you're looking for.


    • Like 1
  21. This was a pretty fun show overall. Good follow up to Raw.


    The only segment I thought was weak was the divas thanks to Nattie on commentary. AJ and Naomi were fine in the ring, but I couldn't tell what Nattie was going for out there. She had some very heelish talking points even though she's supposed to be the face, and it sounded like even she didn't know what her character's motivation was supposed to be. JBL and Cole tried their best to hold it together, but Nattie just kept talking and talking... "She's a title holder, I'm a champion." *shudder*


    The gauntlet match was well done. Mostly served as a jobber execution, but Kofi and Ziggler had some good babyface comebacks.  Ziggler's demise was particularly fun. I don't know who decided to bring back the running single leg dropkick, but between Rollins, Cesaro, Bryan, and Naomi, there have been some pretty nasty ones flying around lately. That torpedo spear on the outside... Well, the .gif covers it nicely.


    HHH's follow up segment was pretty good too. He's putting his cerebral assassin skills to good use coming off as a guy who's biding his time for some real revenge and has no interest in letting an incompetent stooge like Vickie screw it up with a sloppy, unimaginative plan. 


    Ryback's segment was hilarious. "Paul Heyman told me earlier you wouldn't sign a little kids' autograph" is some high-quality transparently phony pro wrestling heel character motivation. Yelling "I hate bullies" along with the 3 count was the icing on the cake.


    The main event 6-man was an excellent tv main, and probably one of The Shield's best, which actually covers a lot of ground towards the end of their first year. Strong teamwork by both sides, and much better structure with Bryan as the ace and the Usos as the young lions. There were some great individual spots like Bryan snatching Rollins on the leap frog attempt and Rollins' lightning enzuigiri to one of the Usos. The heat segments on each Uso went just the right amount of time, and the finish was appropriately heated. Classic Bryan hot-tag run on Ambrose, followed by a nice dive sequence to get Rollins and Reigns out of the way, Then there was the beautiful subtlety in the finish where the Usos hit the double superkick to give them a bit of a rub by being directly involved, but not taking away from Bryan who hit the long-setup variety running knee in true superstar fashion. Everyone came out looking great.

    • Like 2
  22. So what's the payoff for putting all this heat on Steph? It's not like she's going to eat a KO punch or get put in the Yes Lock. How is she supposed to get her comeuppance?


    X-Factor from Brie Mode


    Anyway, this was a good Raw, and way better than the ppv last night.


    The Armstrong angle was predictable, but they're doing a good job making it look thoroughly phony. I assume he'll come clean at some point and say HHH put him up to it. Not sure if that will be before or after Road Dogg gets beat down by The Shield or eats the crying punch (CKO? Weeping of Mass Destruction? There's gotta be a name for this somewhere...)


    The Dusty segment was good, and I'm glad I'm not the first one to point out it was mostly Steph. That Bed Bath and Beyond gift card was so deliciously catty. The payoff would've been better if Show hadn't been crying for weeks, but it still came off as a good kind of pro-wrestling cheese.


    AJ continues to own on commentary. It was a probably a blessing that Nattie's headset didn't work, because once she got on air, AJ didn't even need to say anything for her to look bad. Those were some painful lines.


    Orton destroying the Miz was subpar. The whole family beatdown thing just doesn't work without blood. It at least needed a punt, because that chair knee drop looked terrible. It did serve a good purpose setting up the closing segment, though.


    The main event was a really good effort from Bryan, and Reigns appears to have improved since his last singles outing. Bryan digging out some of the old indy leg work with some especially stiff kicks gave Reigns a good reason to be slow and indecisive on offense, which is the one area for him that looks like it still needs some work. I did like what Reigns did selling as the story of the tenacious little guy overwhelming a lower-ranked big guy was the result of good work from both of them. Bryan on offense is always going to improve any match, and Reigns struck the right balance of looking strong, but still giving Bryan's offense its due. Bryan of course helped Reigns along by rag-dolling for his big catch-and-throw spots. Rollins made sure to let everyone know he's still the king of bumping, though. 


    The finish was absolutely perfect and exactly what the angle needs. Reigns' desperation spear on Kofi was hilarious, but also a nice touch to the segment. Orton ran before anyone got to the ring and The Shield went down swinging. Everyone clearing a path for Bryan to obliterate Rollins with the running knee was an awesome visual. It'll be fun to watch The Shield kill some of these jobbers for revenge, but now hopefully there's enough fodder on the face side for Bryan to become the one making saves instead of needing them all the time.

  23. I was hoping the surprise guest would be AJ, but Jaret turned out to be pretty good. That was some expert trolling. Oh and if the Usos dropped the Samoan heritage tribute act and used their reality show personas, they'd be top faces in WWE right now.


    I look forward to the next series where indy nerd Daniel Bryan has to choose between his hot girlfriend and being a main eventer in WWE. 

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