Go2Sleep
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Posts posted by Go2Sleep
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That 8-man would be perfect for an early 2000s NOAH style Captain's Fall rules match. UE desperately protecting their weak leader while easily handling the relative jobbers but struggling with all their might to bring down Walter for 50 minutes.
I'm sure it'll be good, but I kinda think they're burning a lot of quality guys in one match. You could split it off into Fish/KOR vs. Barthel/Aichner, Strong vs. Bate, Walter vs. Keith Lee, and Cole vs. UK upper midcarder who he can safely beat (Trent Seven maybe, I'll admit I don't know their roster that well). That would be half a show and would guarantee it being decent at worst.
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A cage match lets Cody win by escape and keep Wardlow strong-ish.
I just hope they get the Cody/MJF S&M show out of the way before the Kansas City Dynamite. I'm taking my wife to her first wrestling show and don't feel like explaining that one.
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WWE's MOTY lists are more about putting over their biggest shows than the best matches. That's how you get Walter/Dunne from Mania weekend over Walter/Bate, or Bryan/Kofi as #1 when just off the top of my head, Bryan/KO/Ali from the month before was noticeably better, and neither match would be top 10 for me. The goal is to pretend the best matches happen on the biggest shows so more people will watch them. Any attempt to discern meaning beyond that or to discuss them seriously is a fool's errand.
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10 hours ago, The Natural said:
If I can be serious for a minute.
At least she didn't find the "big dick" gimmick he had for about a month in WWE.
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During the Cole/Balor match, Nigel quoted Jordan Peterson, then Mauro said "google Jordan Peterson, kids." Around the 12-minute mark. Pretty bad look to tell your audience to look up misogynist/transphobic videos, but it's WWE, so I'm not surprised. Maybe next week, Mauro will tell the kids to google Richard Spencer.
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Oney vs. Drew McIntyre and pre-DIY Ciampa vs. Samoa Joe are my two favorite "super fun but not MOTY-level" tv matches from NXT.
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On 12/16/2019 at 11:48 AM, Cobra Commander said:
Well I know what I'm asking for for Christmas.
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I have no idea what the argument is against Akiyama. He actually escaped the Misawa/Kawada/Kobashi shadow and became a top guy in his own right in NOAH, with no shortage of great matches along the way. Outside of Kobashi, I'd say he was actually more complete as a wrestler being able to adapt to different match styles, opponents, and having more character range.
Kobashi getting 98% is well-deserved and I'm not saying Akiyama deserves that number, but not being able to crack 60 with the same voters is bizarre.
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Fun trivia, Becky Lynch is the first woman to main event back to back WWE ppvs.
Was it just me, or did it seem like there were more big spots no-sold this year? I swear if they ran TLC 1 today, Bubba Dudley would've been dueling with Edge at the top of the ladder for the finish.
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On 12/11/2019 at 10:42 PM, Bigbosseli said:
I can't remember the last wrestler I've heard billed from buffalo, and I have seen etid a few times so I marked out for bbb.
Beth Phoenix
I love the Butcher/Blade look and gimmick. Good to see they're decent enough in the ring and not "then the bell rang" guys.
I also like the name "Jungle Jack Perry" catching on. "A Boy and his Dinosaur" is a hell of a name for a midcard tag team, but Jungle Jack Perry has a cool 80s sound that he could move up the card with. Luchasaurus has size and owns his gimmick so he's fine either way. Marco Stunt works as the new age Spike Dudley who can take the big beatings so Jack doesn't have to. Love this act, and glad they're getting a main event rub.
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Flair's 80s routine was great to watch once in a while, but much like Wargames or Royal Rumbles, if you watch a bunch in a row, it loses its luster real fast.
That said, I wouldn't completely write him off as a ring psychologist due to the latter half of his career as a crazy old man. Maybe this is a little too hot-take-ish, but I think Flair had more great performances and matches after 1995 than before. Hogan coming to WCW might have been the worst thing for Flair as a coasting top act, but the best thing for him as a worker.
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20 hours ago, clintthecrippler said:
I am curious though if after NXT being put over strong at Survivor Series and being a prime-time USA show, that you would think there would be some sort of stronger NXT presence in the main Wrestlemania show this year besides bodies in the battle Royal. Like maybe Takeover will be main evented by a feud-culminating grudge match while the NXT Championship and/or NXT Womens Championship will be defended on the main show?
I don't think there's really a good candidate for a feud-culminating grudge match, though. The ship has sailed (so to speak) for Gargano/Ciampa. Gargano/Balor and Kai/Knox won't have that kind of heat and those are the biggest two feuds simmering in NXT now. Keith Lee or Rhea Ripley winning a belt there is still the best play, but I don't think you want both on the same show. I think the Ripley chase has more legs since she can feud with Kai to build both women's feuds. Lee should take the belt in a squash next week, then retain in a longer match at TO: Portland. Then he can defend against Ciampa for something fresh at Tampa.
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20 hours ago, RolandTHTG said:
I'm not sure re: Shawn - both from a perspective that he produced some absolute stinkers ring psychology wise after his return (the entire series with Angle in 05 comes to mind) and his really sketchy selling. Also the over-dramatic over-selling formula he's produced in NXT subsequently.
HHH is an interesting one. -The whole "everything you just saw for 20 minutes has lead up to this moment of me swinging a sledgehammer at this guy" aspect is a big red mark, as is so many of his matches in the midst of blood feuds failing to bring the hate whatsoever (that never ending 3 stages of hell match with Shawn, the Jericho HIAC, the Orton main at Mania, some of the Punk matches).
For a guy that was supposed to be a cerebral assassin, there really wasn't anything particularly smart about him.Even though Shawn's second run gets a lot of flak, he was pretty consistently one of the most over guys on the roster and always had the crowd engaged in his matches. He knew his audience, and most criticisms you'd make of him would be more appropriately directed at WWE style in general. His comeback match with HHH, the Cena matches in 07, the 08 Jericho feud, the Flair retirement match, and the Taker matches were all excellent story-wise. He had some low-key good stuff with Batista and Kennedy too. I don't think I'd have him in the all-time convo either for the negatives you mentioned, but I'd definitely nominate him over Orton for the discussion.
I've always said HHH has the biggest gap between his best and worst matches of any wrestler. He's also definitely better in gimmick matches than regular ones. Even with the exact same opponent, it's crazy how disparate his matches could be. Compare the Unsanctioned match with Shawn to the HIAC, or the LMS with Orton to WM 25.
19 hours ago, Ace said:I always found Kawada the best at telling a story amongst the four pillars.
Tough to top Kobashi for me. He had the most range from ace to underdog, was Scott-Hall-esqe in making his large frame look gigantic or smaller depending on the situation, and had the most sympathetic connections to his lower-ranked partners (Kikuchi, KENTA, Shiosaki). To me, there's a lot more variety in Kobashi's great matches than Kawada, or even Misawa who definitely got more experimental from 99 on.
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I wouldn't put Orton down as an all-timer. He's more HHH-level, in the sense that he's better than he generally gets credit for and works smarter than average for WWE style. Given the length of his career and level of exposure, he's been in his share of classics, but the haters have plenty of ammo too. In terms of primarily WWE main eventers, I'd put him behind Shawn and Taker, and well behind Foley and Austin.
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I think there's a weird divide between the main event scene and midcard in AEW. Like the ME scene is a NJ/Crockett fusion and the midcard is total Lucha Underground. Most of the segments work well on their own, but it's bit jarring going back and forth between Jericho and Cody fire promos and Kris Statlander the alien or whatever the hell Brandi and Kong are doing.
But god damn, did Luchasaurus really bridge the gap there.
I enjoy watching Dynamite every week, but I do hope they smooth that stuff out and let the crazy gimmicks become a little more grounded. I actually think the Dark Order's internet radicalization was a good step toward that. Made everything about their hokey gimmick make a lot more sense and actually felt "dark" with the cult aspects instead of 2 dudes with a bunch of jobbers in masks popping up occasionally.
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3 hours ago, Six String Orchestra said:
This show is not worthy of roman numerals in the title.
TLC and Hell in a Cell are longer-running ppvs than King of the Ring.
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I don't think it's necessary or worthwhile to try to replace Bobby Fish in UE. If you did, you'd want someone like Luke Menzies or Arturo Ruas. Someone with decent heel striking/grappling offense and could use something to do on a crowded show, but wouldn't overshadow the group with name value. I just think the group has run its course, and letting the wear and tear of 3 guys trying to defend 4 belts lead to its natural end is the best course of action. Cole and Strong could use a Raw/SD run to freshen up. KoR would be fine on any show, but I think there's still a lot of untapped potential with an NXT singles run for him.
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Walter/Bate is definitely a late entrant.
I half-jokingly call it the most 90s AJ match since 1997. I honestly expect it to age better than everything sans Cena/Lesnar listed in this thread.
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Lee/Dijak should've totally won the belts here, but if there's a silver lining between that and the Fish injury, I actually think the Roddy/KoR combo is better than ReDragon on the whole. I'm glad we'll get more matches with that pairing.
Dakota turning was much needed. Her offense works really well as a heel despite the fact she's giving up size to most of her opponents. I'm not as crazy about Candice, but I'm glad they protected her with a DQ, and Rhea looked badass coming to save the day.
Not all that excited about Finn being in the title picture. Hopefully Gargano comes back and both stay away from the belt. Man who came back from neck surgery vs. the guy who's life goal is to invent new ways to hit a flipping pile driver has plenty of intrigue on its own.
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Mick Foley deserves a shout. It helps that he was willing to take ridiculous bumps and potato shots, but it's hard to think of anyone who could generate sympathy and make his opponent look like a tough bastard better than Foley. He really made it feel like you had to earn a win against him, despite the fact that he lost most of his high-profile matches.
Eddie and Regal would be my picks if you're looking for more technical psychology to combine with great story-telling mannerisms and facial expressions, with Bryan being their spiritual successor until about 2015 when he went full WWE.
Currently, I find the NXT UK guys to be the best in this regard. Pete Dunne usually has excellent technical storytelling and uses his finger-bending offense to create some smart sequences. Tyler Bate is wonderful sympathetic babyface. Walter seems like someone who watched every big 90s AJPW match and took the right things away from it. On the US side, the Revival had a hell of a run for a couple years too, but I don't know if that short peak gets them into all-time discussion.
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I'm sure it's been said, but having people that were fighting each other in Wargames last night on the same team tonight was beyond dumb, even by WWE's "brand loyalty above all once a year" standards. That said, the women's elimination match was alright in a vacuum. The finishing stretch was good, and it was good to see Sasha do something.
If I wasn't so burned out on triple threats after this weekend, I probably would've liked the secondary title match more.
The NXT title match was fine, even if the wrong guy won. I will admit, though, I admire Adam Cole's dedication to turn the Canadian Destroyer into his own personal Diamond Cutter.
The other two title matches felt like B-show matches. It's kinda bad when Adam Cole is in the most serious championship match, but the other choices are Bray Wyatt wrestling in red lighting or Brock beating up Rey and his son at the same time.
The Men's elimination was fun throughout and other than Walter going out too early (could've just used Jackson Riker if they wanted to do that script), nothing felt out of place. For a guy who's been floundering for over a year, Keith Lee has looked like the next big thing for the last month. Ciampa and Riddle looked good too, and we totally need that Riddle/Gable match.
The women's match was the wrong choice to main event for once. Bayley seemed pretty off and Shayna is pretty much NXT Brock Lesnar at this point. If Becky wasn't gonna stand tall, why close with that over Roman giving Lee the rub?
Overall this show reinforced my belief that I'm good just watching NXT and AEW, and only checking in on Raw and SD every month or two.
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I'm not a huge fan of heels losing a 4 on 2 situation, but they did it as well as they could. I would've liked to see them copy the ROH/CZW cage of death where the face the team got the advantage, then lost it because of a turn.The finishing sequence was good, bringing back memories of the underrated Cena/Orton I Quit match. Good stuff all around.
The triple threat had some good sequences but needed to be shorter. Another good finishing spot.
Riddle/Balor was alright, but definitely one of Riddle's lesser matches this year. He took an RVD-esque bump on that Bloody Sunday, though.
The men's Wargames dragged until KO showed up. I'd be down for KO back in NXT full time.
Adam Cole better not win his match tonight. I don't hate Cole, but it would completely devalue the match/finishing spot to have him win. Also, is there any X vs. Adam Cole match where X vs. Pete Dunne doesn't sound better?
Overall, it was a fine show, but outside of the women's Wargames, things went more into "trying too hard" to their own detriment.
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I used to think Rollins was fairly savvy to the business. Is he smart enough that he's leaning into a perfect whiny heel persona for a new decade, or has he been huffing his own farts and let the business pass him by?
I'll have to check this show out some time, I'm a sucker for shoot humor.
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The whole brand wars setup is dumb, but Revival/UE was the second best match in the company this year, and the Ricochet/Riddle sprint and fallout brawl was fun too.
Also, I don't care what anyone says, that ladder panama sunrise was a wonderful piece of internal wrestling logic. Gotta get more bounce to get the bigger guy over.
Guess we're just waiting til tonight for the surprise 4th guy? Is Gargano hurt leading to a real surpise, or is it just him?
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AEW - Jan 2020
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
Posted
The cloverleaf the best of the three for basement/backyard wrestling purposes because once you got the legs hooked (with your forearm behind the heel, not on the flat of the boot like the actual wrestlers do to not hurt each other) no one was getting out. With a regular Boston Crab, you're starting with one leg against one arm so even smaller opponents could fight you to put it on, then larger opponents could still power out with superior leg and core strength after it was applied. The Scorpion was way too contrived to put on anyone who was actively resisting. But that cloverleaf... You lock those hands, and ain't nobody pushing you off. You could even do a giant swing type move to smaller opponents from that position.
Of course, none of those were as effective as a simple armbar or kimura, but even those paled in comparison to the king of shoot pro wrestling holds, the Tazmission. No shit, the easiest to put on someone big or small and everyone needs to breathe. Guaranteed tap every time.