Go2Sleep
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Posts posted by Go2Sleep
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So I put WCW Uncensored 96 on, because of my quest for bad Wrestling (I wanted to see the Triple decker cage fiasco). And then all of a sudden, the second match on the show was Regal vs Finlay. And it was FUCKING AWESOME~!
That Regal/Finlay match rules.
The doomsday cage is wrestlecrap hall of fame material for sure, but the underrated "bad wrestling" component of the show is Sting/Booker vs. Road Warriors No DQ match going 30 fucking minutes. It's up there with the likes of the HHH/Shawn HIAC in the "ohmyfuckingGOD just bring it home already you've made your point" department.
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Fully Loaded 2000 begs to differ
That's probably the closest that "multiple main events" has ever been to being true. Each match one established star from that era and one fresh new guy who they expected big things from in the future. If the title wasn't on the line in Rock/Benoit, they would've all been pretty equal.
I generally agree with Punk on that point, though. Anytime your last match on a big event doesn't feel like the most important, it hurts the show tremendously. Notable examples being Rock/Hogan at WM 18 and Taker/Michaels at WM 25.
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Owens being compared to 2014 Brock Lesnar is a reach, but 2002 Brock Lesnar isn't too far off the mark. Owens will eat offense in most of his matches and bump around some for the bigger names, but as long as he's winning clean, he'll look like a monster. He doesn't have Brock's look obviously, but he has the mobility, explosiveness, and intensity that fans buy into, and that's what matters. Plus, 260 or whatever they were billing him at during the Zayn match is huge in NXT. Probably makes him the 3rd heaviest guy there, but he moves more like Finn Balor than Bull Dempsey which makes him pretty damn scary in NXT kayfabe.
Kevin Owens is the best-case answer to the longstanding hypothetical question "What if Joe got in with WWE in 2005?"
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Just watched the JBL/Cena I Quit match from Judgment Day 2005. It's pretty over-the-top, but it's really cool to see the attitude version of John Cena. Blood, swearing, head shots, violent looking chokes, this match has it all and more. JBL is great as the dickhead heel who gets what's coming to him and slowly realizing he'll never be able to make Cena quit. Some of Cena's offense is still goofy, but the blood, take no prisoners attitude, and general grittiness of his character make it easy to see why he was so universally over at this time. It's weird to hear "Let's go Cena" not followed by "Cena sucks." This also avoided the "get beat down forever, win in 2 minutes" formula that contributed to crowds souring on Cena afterwards. He really beat the hell out of JBL before JBL finally quit.
This match definitely lacks the raw emotion of elite I Quit matches like Rock/Foley or Flair/Foley and the blood and some of the spots are clearly overcompensating for that, but it's still a good spectacle and worth watching to see John Cena work a completely different style still within the context of his face character and to see the always-underrated (as a wrestler) Bradshaw slug it out.
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Zayn was so great bumping around for Owens' offense. I was hoping for a package piledriver there at the end, but the way he was totally limp for those last powerbombs ruled too. Owens as the dominant heel is definitely the way to go with all those high-energy underdog faces on the roster who can bounce off him. The next year is looking great.
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So I was really drunk when I watched Raw this week and slept through a lot of it. Did they actually have HHH "call Sting out" to accept his call-out at Fast Lane? It's tough to think of anything that says "we have no idea how to fill time with this feud" more than that.
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Even though all the wrestling stuff is in San Jose/other suburbs, I'm staying in San Fran. What should I expect traffic-wise getting to San Jose/Santa Clara?
Also, what are the can't miss restaurants there?
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I know I've brought it up a number of times, so I guess it is my gimmick, but what the hell are they doing giving the Miz 70% of the match against Reigns. Miz should barely be able to make a dent against Reigns.
Note the date:
The biggest thing WWE does to ruin big heels is forcing them to work the same formula match as any other face. They go from dominating one week, to eating 90% of the offense in their first match as a face. Nobody wants to cheer a guy who always gets beat up. Watch Austin's run when he was massively over in 98... He's getting almost 50% of the offense in his matches, and probably the majority of the offense in some (like the Foley matches). People want to cheer for guys who can kick ass, not someone who's gonna be selling 90% of the match against David Otunga.
I guarantee Roman's heat will dwindle if he starts being on the receiving end of a lot of "chinlock, elbow, elbow, hair pull, chinlock" spots.
Sure there's other reasons he's not getting as much heat as they'd like right now, but it still seems relevant.
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I think if you really wanted to pinpoint one thing for Itami, it's his moveset. He's got a "good wrestler" gimmick but hasn't found any spots that pop the crowd. They're dying for him to use the G2S, but it never happens. His finisher seems to change every week, and none of them have been particularly inspiring. I've still yet to see him do the falcon arrow, or the slingshot into the ring with the arrogant back kick to the head. Both of those seem like they would get over.
Also the booking hasn't been too kind to him, although I think that's just accidental fallout from the strong booking of Balor. Itami got a 5* debut, but then got beat down by the Ascension for like 2 months straight, and his "backup" has since out-performed him in every way, including beating him clean this past week. No doubt Balor is a great talent with serious main event potential who deserves every bit of his current push, I don't want to come across like I'm complaining about that. I just think his push has had some unintentional negative side effects for Itami, most of which would've been averted if he connected with the fans through his matches mind you.
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Also, if they go with Bryan again then post-WrestleMania we're right back to Bryan vs. The Authority. He's already wrestling Kane every week.
This is assuming the Authority makes it past Mania without Sting getting rid of them once and for all.
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I think they had him job because it's been pointed out too much that he hasn't actually been pinned or submitted as a singles guy (if at all) in WWE and they're using that gimmick with Rusev. So in order to get around that, a quick and painless job for Reigns
That makes some sense, I guess. I didn't even think about him not being pinned in singles until someone else pointed it out. He's been pinned by Bray Wyatt a couple times and I think by one of the Rhodes brothers too, so he's never really had that undefeated aura to me, even though he rarely loses decisions.
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Pretty solid episode of Raw, definitely had that "pre-Mania" feel where everyone is looking a little better than normal.
Rusev looked great in that beatdown on Rowan, then had that great reaction to the flag botch. They have to dig up some indy worker to play the stagehand who set up the flag for a righteous beating.
Roman looked his best since the Shield broke up. Not sure why he jobbed to Show, but whatever. Those spears at the end were very inspired, and he carried himself a lot better in the promos (because they smartly didn't make him do too much).
Bryan definitely had his best night since his comeback too. He was really good with not making Roman look bad, and actually somewhat sympathetic even, in their segments together. His match with Rollins shows he still hasn't lost a step, and his previous matches being mediocre were in fact the product of working with Kane. He got to dig deep into his bag of moves and work a frantic pace with Rollins, who he has exceptional chemistry with. I can't believe he did the belly-to-back superplex, though. That's probably one move he should be cutting out of his arsenal post neck surgery.
The one guy who didn't come out looking good was Axel. Now I've never liked him and wouldn't be upset if he was never on tv again, but holy shit, that was all-time burial. JBL actually said "change the channel" when he was cutting his promo. Ouch.
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So, in the "random, unexpectedly good matches" department, I just watched Mr. Kennedy vs. Shawn Michaels from Armageddon 07.
Kennedy's performance is very inspired, and Michaels was oddly not mailing it in despite being in a throwaway midcard match on a nothing ppv. The match starts with a lot of intensity and Michaels does a good job looking like he's surprised at how much of a fight he's in, and upping his intensity accordingly. His chops early in this match were actually decent, and there was little wasted movement from either guy. Kennedy predictably goes after the back, but Michaels creates an opening by working the arm and hand of Kennedy with some uncharacteristically vicious, Regal-like offense. Kennedy does a great job selling his hand for most of the match, and both guys do a great job conveying desperation and an urgency to win. The finish drags a hair as we do get a mailed-in Shawn babyface comeback sequence, but after the predictable SCM reversal, they come back with smart finish out of nowhere that plays on all the earlier work in the match.
Definitely worth a look next time you're in a random match mood.
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I expect Balor/Itami to be somewhat restrained, kind of like the first Zayn/Neville match. I imagine there will be a bigger match between them down the road. I'd be surprised if this match goes more than the standard NXT weekly main (12-15 minutes).
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Yeah, I'm kinda leaning towards Corbin now too. He's raw, but he definitely has a lot of "presence" as the announcers like to say. Don't get me wrong, I love all my indy workrate guys, but Corbin has a look and moveset that really stands out on this show. I liked his Kane-style flip over the ropes into a punch. Perfect little touch to show he's not an immobile hack, but his main style is still brawling. I think seeing the smaller guys flop around for his kicks and punches would add some good variety to the big matches in NXT. Neville should do this quite well next week. I kinda want to see Baron get to the finals, but you certainly can't go wrong with Neville vs. either Itami or Balor.
I liked Blake and Murphy's new entrance, but I agree they need a team name and something to help differentiate the two in the ring. Something's wrong when it feels like an American and Australian are working a "brothers" gimmick. They seem decent enough in the ring, it'll be interesting to see what they can do with the gold.
I loved the contract signing because it was exactly what I said should happen last week. Predictable isn't always bad if the story and execution are good. I'm not sure how legally binding a contract that has some words scribbled out and new ones written above them is, but I guess wrestling contracts are not noted for their realism.
Also, how sad is it that Tom Phillips is a huge upgrade over Rich Brennan? God, I hope Brennan never comes back.
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So...it's pretty clear that Ambrose frequents this board, right?
One doesn't want to assume, but I figure quite a lot of them check out the board at this point. We knew about Punk. I think it's a safe bet that Batista knows about Fashion Watch as well.
I wish I could remember more details, but I know somebody cut a promo using a joke from the previous week's Raw thread word for word a couple years back. Might have been Punk.
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Good squash match where a little guy is squashing a big guy. Benoit is vicious attacking the knee (which sets up the finish), and muscles a guy twice his size over for an impressive looking super plex. Also some vintage Larry Z commentary here (human chess, new world odor, and a sexist comment all in less than 8 minutes)
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That Rollins/Lesnar interaction is pretty much what I've been hoping for since Brock won the gold. Rollins is so good at being "fake tough."
Reigns actually looked serviceable by the end of the show. The blizzard is the best thing that could've happened for him, because that face-to-face would've looked a million times worse with audible "Let's go Lesnar," and "We want Bryan" chants in the background.
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If Roman could blade (or let Brock hardway him like he did to Cena in the 2012 match), a valiant effort that comes short could go a long ways to rehabbing him. A Bret/Austin style match for this generation perhaps.
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If they have any sense, Cena/Rusev will be a one and done, or at least the rematch will be held off to Extreme Rules. I'm telling you, the international flavor of the crowd plus their general disdain for Cena would make that match a disaster.
I actually think Sheamus would make for a good Rusev opponent at Mania. Also imagine a world with a credible Cesaro who got to keep the "we the people" chant could fill that void.
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The saddest part for Roman is that the pop he would've gotten for winning last year would've been incredible. Somebody should really introduce the writing team to the concept of "striking while the iron's hot."
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I think the one way to salvage Wrestlemania as it stands now is to fully run with Lesnar as a face and turn Reigns heel. The match ends with Lesnar beating Reigns in 5 minutes, not any worse for the wear, then Rollins comes out with MITB. Those two work a 20-minute match where Rollins scores a flash pin to cement himself as the top guy. Ideally, Lesnar would stick around to chase Rollins for a rematch, and Bryan would get worked in there somewhere.
In addition to the otherwise horrible idea to force Reigns against Lesnar, how has nobody thought Cena/Rusev won't be a terrible idea for Mania? They do realize like half the Mania crowd is European and would love to troll the good old US of A, right? I mean, generally speaking, it sounds like a feud that really does need to happen for better or worse, but nothing will say "not understanding your audience" like loud pro-Russia/US sucks chants at your biggest show of the year.
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They almost have to be planning on Reigns (heel) vs. Brock (face) at Mania. Trying to play Reigns up as Cena-lite would go so bad for everyone.
The triple threat was good as expected. Lesnar and Rollins both tore it up, and what a great finishing run.
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Would Rainbow fit in here? I could be way off base here, but I would guess most Blackmore fans would prefer Deep Purple and most Dio fans would prefer his solo work or time with Sabbath.
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WWE NETWORK GENERAL DISCUSSION THREAD
in WWE PROGRAMMING
Posted
I was bored and picked a random show to watch and landed on Fall Brawl 1995.
The opening match was a surprisingly long US title #1 contender match between Brian Pillman and Johnny B. Badd. Badd was really over, and it didn't sound like anyone even laughed at him when he chucked one of his audience frisbees right into the turnbuckle from about 3 feet away. Pillman was in transition to going heel on this show. These got like 30 minutes, but filled it well. They started with respectful mat wrestling, then escalated to striking and high impact moves, before finishing with 10 minutes or so of "big move-kickout-repeat." Badd got busted open early, and Pillman was acting more heelish throughout the match, although both guys had a lot of fire. Match ended with a double crossbody spot where Badd landed on top. Kind of unexpected, but after the overkill stretch, it pretty much had to end with a flash pin or cheating.
Next up was Cobra vs. Craig Pittman. Apparently Cobra was the face even though he was a generic looking musclehead with an annoying theme that was like 3 letters of morse code on continuous loop. Meanwhile Pittman was the heel with an awesome rafter entrance decked out in full commando gear. Private Iaukea distracted Cobra, so Pittman could do his elaborate entrance and sneak attack him. The actual match only lasted a couple minutes with Pittman quickly winning with his jujigatame called the code red.
DDP vs. Renegade for the TV title was next. DDP had some really over-the-top comedic bumping going in his early days. Renegade wasn't as bad as I remembered. Not great mind you, but at least passable enough to have an average 5 minute match with DDP. Renegade was clearly on the outs here, though, as he jobbed somewhat quickly and Heenan murdered him on commentary. "He calls that zircon cutter... Get it? 'Cuz that guy's not a real diamond, he's a cheap knock off." Botched mineralogy aside, that's pretty brutal for a guy who was being presented as a decent midcard face to that point.
Harlem Heat vs. Dick Slater and Bunkhouse Buck for the tag titles also got a surprising amount of time, although most of the match was about Parker and Sherri. Both teams got an extended control segment, and there was pretty good striking at various points in the match. It probably went about 5 minutes too long, but definitely had its enjoyable moments like Stevie Ray and Dick Slater having a bar-fight like slugfest and Buck stomping Booker square in the face. When Parker and Sherri finally kissed in the opposite the ring, chaos ensued. Somewhere in there, the Nasty Boys came out and hit Slater with his own boot as payback for something that happened on Main Event. Harlem Heat regained the titles.
The semi-main was the heavily hyped Ric Flair vs. Arn Anderson showdown. Both guys cut money promos earlier in the show, and this definitely has to be on the list of most underrated matches of the 90s. Like some of the earlier matches, it was long, but you didn't really notice it as much here with all the story involved. They set up the story of "tough love" in their promos and followed through to perfection in the match. So much raw emotion from both guys who managed to somehow look heistant but tough at the same time. And holy shit, Flair was as stiff as I've ever seen him. There was also a dueling body-part work element to the match, with Anderson doing the family trademark arm work while Flair naturally went after the legs in between the heated brawling. Flair pounding one of Arn's legs while he had him the figure four was a nice touch of desperation, and Arn screaming "you got nothing" made for a great high point in the match. Soon after, Brian Pillman would come out of the stands and attack Flair from behind, which allowed Arn to hit the DDT for the win.
The Wargames match featured The Hulkamaniacs (Hogan, Sting, Savage, Luger) vs. The Dungeon of Doom job squad (Shark, Kamala, Meng, Zodiac). The only good thing about this match was the Hulkamaniacs delivering the fire-iest fired-up babyface promo of all time before the match. It's hard to imagine a better crazy face promo group than that. The match itself was a plodding, predictable affair. Everyone on the face team gets beat up until Hogan saves the day. Luger has some hilarious selling for Meng's kicks, though. Hogan made Zodiac quit with a camel clutch, which meant Hogan was supposed to get a singles match in the cage with Sullivan right after. That lasted about a minute before the Giant came out and attacked Hogan. Those two beat him up for a few minutes until the other faces ran back out to close the show.
Overall, this was an enjoyable show, if not particularly memorable. The Wargames match was extremely dull, but everything on the undercard was acceptable at worst. Pillman/Badd was surprisingly epic, and Flair/Arn was legit great. The latter alone (and associated promo material) is worth a look if you don't watch anything else from the show.