ROH Death Before Dishonor 2022 - 23 July 2022

[Johnny Sorrow]

It totally feels to me that Khan is trying to lean into a little ROH nostalgia for the glory days. Claudio as champ, Briscoes in the Main Event, Nana not only debuting but in charge of an Embassy that comes off as a real threat, and even putting the six man belts on Castle and The Boys who now have names.  And I get it. All of those choices popped me, because I'm one of those old school ROH fans. 
I do want to see more of The Rightous. I love their take on this Southern Hippie Jesus Freak Cult gimmick. At least that's what I took from it. That one dude does a hell of a Ray Traylor act.

Edited July 25, 2022 by Johnny Sorrow

[NoFistsJustFlips]

35 minutes ago, mystman said:

I guess I'm just feeling salty about how this all went down. I've been a big fan of ROH for years now, and I feel ambivalent with all their champs losing to AEW guys. I love Claudio, and the FTR vs. Briscoes matches have been amazing. I guess I wish it was a longer transition, with more build up. Maybe a big ROH vs. AEW event. I dunno, but I keep thinking how'd people would've reacted if Vince bought them out and did the same thing. 

Sorry if I'm rambling, and I'm not trying to start an argument. I know it all makes sense. I know TK has to make the changes he thinks are best. But it just really bugs me how this has all gone down.

I get your thought process here. I bolded AEW guys for emphasis. They're all AEW guys now. Gresham was an AEW guy. He had a contract. It's no different than having an expectation that WWE owned NXT should have non contracted guys hold their titles. Not really a realistic strategy. The Briscoes are signed. Dalton Castle is signed. Rush is signed. Gresham is (was) signed. It's all in appearances who is 'ROH' & who is 'AEW'. It's all the same company.

About the only ones on the main PPV event that aren't signed as far as I know are Dragon Lee & The Righteous. That's why I've been critical of this idea of running ROH as an "equal" to AEW. They're just turning ROH into AEW2 with a different logo. And I don't understand the business sense of that. WWE & Triple H era NXT I get. They were stylistically different and going after different markets. AEW & ROH currently are teh equivelant of Raw & Smackdown. In essence it's a brand split with no actual separation or rules. In other words so far the presentation sucks so far. In my opinion that is.

[Nineteen]

/\ Embassy Forever~ (YOU FOOLS!)

Man this show delivered. I love the joy Regal has whenever he shows up to do commentary and glad he got to have that little "GENTLEMEN, DID YOU MISS ME" even though he was only gone for one match. BCC is the best (BCC av replacing current BC av pending).

Really loved that little moment of Garcia going for the Regal Stretch and Yuta grabbing the walls but Garcia being the one having to use the rope break. To parrot someone else, I hope these two keep running into each other and grow together. Only gripe is I felt Yuta had a liiiiiitle too much control of that match, I never really felt like Garcia was in it until the end but then the finish happened. Yuta really nails the Pure style too.

Kind of weird that Vinny is in Honor No More because he couldn't be in Ring of Honor anymore but... was in Ring of Honor. Little Quibble but I do want to see more of The Righteous. Dude seems like he's ready to have his own group too after being the third guy in The Kingdom and the 4th guy in Honor No More.

So so so so happy for Claudio. My first RoH show as Final Battle '05 and he got dusty finish'd out of winning the pure title for Nigel and I've been a fan since.  Weird that there's a stable where Bryan F. Danielson is the only one without a belt but speaks to (again) that BCC is the best.

Really surprised Joe won there. With his recent injury history and having been off TV and the way they've been building up Lethal messing up Joe's arm really felt like it was gonna be Lethal's night. I was totally shocked when Joe kicked out of the shitty cut- Lethal Injection. Samoa Joe in Ring of Honor just feels right.

Deeb and Mercedes really compliment each other's styles. I've always liked that Romero Special/Dragon Sleeper move (always gave it to my edits in Fire Pro games) and glad someone has it as a legit finish.

Can't glow enough about Top Guys and Dem Boys. I really feel like they are the two best tag teams ever and their pair of matches this year proved it. Dax throwing hands with Jay, Redneck Kung Fu, Dax being trapped in the ring what felt like forever, that table spot (I don't know many times I've said this in years of watching RoH but I think Mark Briscoes died.....). Truly, Fight Forever.

Even if there's not a weekly RoH show coming soon (plz though), I'm kind of okay with it being  quarterly thing where the champs do stuff elsewhere within and outside of AEW then come together every few months for these dope ass shows.

[username]

I can kinda of follow Gresham's logic, it isn't a bad bet that it might be better to be a bigger name on the indies than likely "just a guy" in a ROH that still seems to be lacking in any kind of direction as a promotion. That's enough of a reason to look for a way out, and if you think they've been ghosting you or treating you poorly then I am fine with you letting them know so before you walk out the door (if he walked out before the show with the belt that would be very different).

[Phantom Lord]

22 minutes ago, Johnny Sorrow said:

It totally feels to me that Khan is trying to lean into a little ROH nostalgia for the glory days. Claudio as champ, Briscoes in the Main Event, Nana not only debuting but in charge of an Embassy that comes off as a real threat, and even putting the six man belts on Castle and The Boys who now have names.  And I get it. All of those choices popped me, because I'm one of those old school ROH fans. 
I do want to see more of The Rightous. I love their take on this Southern Hippie Jesus Freak Cult gimmick. At least that's what I took from it. That one dude does a hell of a Ray Traylor act.

I liked The Righteous as well. My brother noted they were basically being the family from Far Cry 5.

[Dolfan in NYC]

So... Is Gresham going to be the guy to take the title off Bron or what?

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

3 minutes ago, Dolfan in NYC said:

So... Is Gresham going to be the guy to take the title off Bron or what?

Stephanie and Paul going out and signing the shortest guys they can find to prove Vince is really gone would be an interesting way to go.  

It definitely feels like ROH talent like Castle and Gresham are going to end up low on the pecking order.  Below Dark and Elevation talent maybe?  I’ve never watched the YouTube shows so I don’t know who works those cards.  It feels like RoH should be the place Yuta, Garcia, Moriarty, etc. go to hold a title.  Not sure fans of the old ROH will accept that, or that it will draw new fans, but it seems like a logical route to do.  Easiest way to get me interested in ROH again would be have guys like Hobbs and Lee feuding with Claudio and Joe.

Lol, what we’ll probably end up with is the Ass Boys as RoH Tag Champs.

 

 

[Octopus]

I can’t talk about Gresham having seen very little of his work. I loved RoH but my enjoyment was roughly from 03-08ish. I missed a lot of the Lethal and Bullet Club eras and maybe wrongfully dismissed it when I looked and saw a roster of people I didn’t know named Taven and Dalton (who I regretfully wish to watch more of). Looking at this event, for what I looked at as Ring of Honor, it seemed on brand to me. Garcia and Yuta feel like talent I would have seen in RoH. 

@NoFistsJustFlips makes a good point about a need to have a difference in presentation with AEW. I feel it can exist in the same Wrestling Universe (like how AEW doesn’t ignore the existence of other companies like NWA, NJPW, Impact, etc). Maybe the stylized difference is in AEW being more showmanship driven and allowing the existence of characters like House of Black and RoH plays up the honor code and is very athletic based. That is a rambling maybe though. Maybe it’s a spot you can store the technical wrestling undercard and give them more televised (hopefully) reps. Maybe RoH gets Rampage and we do a AEW draft. Add a second hour, have GM characters like heel Head of Talent Relations Christopher Daniels representing the AEW Dynamite brand and William Regal represents the RoH Rampage brand. 

[DEAN]

26 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

Lol, what we’ll probably end up with is the Ass Boys as RoH Tag Champs.

That would be COMPLETELY awesome.

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

Baby Gunns are surprisingly entertaining as Too Cool with muscles.

[porksweats]

15 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

Baby Gunns are surprisingly entertaining as Too Cool with muscles.

Bring the Baby Gunns and Billy to ROH, trios feud with Dalton and The Boys

[Just Dave]

If you’re feeling bad for Jonathan Gresham, I would say maybe don’t? There’s enough circumstantial evidence as to the age Jordynne Grace was when they started dating that folks have been referring to them as the Legion of Groom on social media….

[eikerir]

12 hours ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

I had never heard of Dalton Castle before last night and enjoyed his act but did a double take when the announcers mentioned he's a former ROH World Champ. Was comedy less of an aspect of his character when he was champ or was he a credible champion in spite of (because of??) the comedy? 

I went to a Liverpool ROH show back in summer 2017 when Cody was champ which was pretty stacked with talent including NJPW guys and the Bullet Club near the peak of their popularity.

I remember my main takeaway when the show ended was that I was sure Castle was gonna be the next world champ, he just stood out even with all the silliness and was super over.

Edited July 25, 2022 by eikerir

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

3 hours ago, just drew said:

If you’re feeling bad for Jonathan Gresham, I would say maybe don’t? There’s enough circumstantial evidence as to the age Jordynne Grace was when they started dating that folks have been referring to them as the Legion of Groom on social media….

I'm sorry but this is an appalling accusation based on rumour and innuendo. You might not approve of him dating an 18 year old in his mid-20s, but there's no evidence whatsoever that he actually 'groomed' her in anyway and that term gets thrown around by everybody way too much. Jordynne Grace has stated repeatedly that she pursued him.

 

 

[J.T.]

So, I lost my shit when Nana announced that he had leveraged Tully Blanchard Enterprises.  THE EMBASSY RETURNS~!

I am happy that Claudio finally got the title run he should've gotten in the old RoH regime.  Hopefully Gresham shows up on Impact and chases the X-Division title.  I also hope he remains a heel.

Yuta vs. Garcia was a great match.  Yuta is having one helluva year and Daniel Garcia continues to show that signing him was a wise move.

Dragon Lee vs Rooooosh was fucking crazy.  I love every minute of it.

I hated Deeb losing to Martinez, but I salute Tony Khan for treating Martinez far better than NXT did.  Deeb can always come back in a rematch.

Jay Lethal is the best wrestler in the world.  It is pretty obvious that Samoa Joe has lost a step, but Lethal made everyone believe it was the early 2000's again and that Joe was a world eater of the highest magnitude.  Again, I hope there will be a rematch where Lethal wins because the world needs Jay Lethal being a total dick holding the Television title.

FTR needs to wrestle the Briscoes until the end of the 2020's in a Best of 7001 series.

 

Edited July 25, 2022 by J.T.

[L_W_P]

9 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I get your thought process here. I bolded AEW guys for emphasis. They're all AEW guys now. Gresham was an AEW guy. He had a contract. It's no different than having an expectation that WWE owned NXT should have non contracted guys hold their titles. Not really a realistic strategy. The Briscoes are signed. Dalton Castle is signed. Rush is signed. Gresham is (was) signed. It's all in appearances who is 'ROH' & who is 'AEW'. It's all the same company.

About the only ones on the main PPV event that aren't signed as far as I know are Dragon Lee & The Righteous. That's why I've been critical of this idea of running ROH as an "equal" to AEW. They're just turning ROH into AEW2 with a different logo. And I don't understand the business sense of that. WWE & Triple H era NXT I get. They were stylistically different and going after different markets. AEW & ROH currently are teh equivelant of Raw & Smackdown. In essence it's a brand split with no actual separation or rules. In other words so far the presentation sucks so far. In my opinion that is.

I agree with all of this and it's why I thought Gresham would retain.

ROH needs to be its own thing. Turn AEW Dark into a 90 minute ROH show until you can secure paid streaming/TV for it.

ROH should be the NXT to Dynamite's Raw. It should be where the younger/lesser known talent performs until they are ready.

Battle of the Belts each year then showcases ROH vs AEW and you can spend a couple of weeks hyping up these guys and their chance to perform against the top shelf of AEW.

[HarryArchieGus]

It’s always interesting to see ‘communication’ issue discussed like it in itself is a major news story. Not to suggest it isn’t an ongoing issue, but that’s the same with any company and, well, life in general. The idea of a wrestling company existing without some sort of tension concerning communication and the creative process while employing all these massive egos is more than a bit ridiculous. 

If the Lowell Mass crowd was any indication this new ROH has a lot of work to do to get over any of these last roster and remaining ROH guys. The middling Sinclair product doesn’t seem to have been followed by this board even, let alone a wider audience. That said, of the remains, Castle and the Boys seem to be on their way. Castle always finds a way to connect some time before the match ends. Regular exposure will do him good. Blake Christian and Tony Deppen also showed a lot of promise in that pre show six man. The crowd came alive for both at different points. All of this work towards establishing these ppl obviously starts with weekly TV so let’s hope they get something going soon. Curious why they’ve decided against momentarily using the Elevation slot?

Edited July 25, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[EVA]

Yeah, I kinda feel like AEW’s communication problems (which are a known issue) are being scapegoated here, when the real issue was an ideological divide between Gresham’s vision for himself/ROH and Tony’s, and I don’t think any amount of communication was going to bridge that, because Tony was not going to give Gresham what he wanted.

[EVA]

I might also suggest that, if your first big meeting with your new boss deteriorates to you cussing him out loud enough that people outside the office can hear it, then YOU might have some communication problems yourself.

[porksweats]

56 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

It’s always interesting to see ‘communication’ issue discussed like it in itself is a major news story. Not to suggest it isn’t an ongoing issue, but that’s the same with any company and, well, life in general. The idea of a wrestling company existing without some sort of tension concerning communication and the creative process while employing all these massive egos is more than a bit ridiculous. 

If the Lowell Mass crowd was any indication this new ROH has a lot of work to do to get over any of these last roster and remaining ROH guys. The middling Sinclair product doesn’t seem to have been followed by this board even, let alone a wider audience. That said, of the remains, Castle and the Boys seem to be on their way. Castle always finds a way to connect some time before the match ends. Regular exposure will do him good. Blake Christian and Tony Deppen also showed a lot of promise in that pre show six man. The crowd came alive for both at different points. All of this work towards establishing these ppl obviously starts with weekly TV so let’s hope they get something going soon. Curious why they’ve decided against momentarily using the Elevation slot?

Tony said during the media scrum that Dark/Elevation are AEW developmental and ROH isn't going to be considered that.

[Just Dave]

3 hours ago, SprintingFromAmerica said:

I'm sorry but this is an appalling accusation based on rumour and innuendo. You might not approve of him dating an 18 year old in his mid-20s, but there's no evidence whatsoever that he actually 'groomed' her in anyway and that term gets thrown around by everybody way too much. Jordynne Grace has stated repeatedly that she pursued him.

 

 

I’m far from the only person making this accusation, including people that know them, but I won’t bring it up again…

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

[Craig H]

1 hour ago, just drew said:

I’m far from the only person making this accusation, including people that know them, but I won’t bring it up again…

Except in this comment?

[mystman]

2 hours ago, EVA said:

I might also suggest that, if your first big meeting with your new boss deteriorates to you cussing him out loud enough that people outside the office can hear it, then YOU might have some communication problems yourself.

I might also suggest that the fact that Khan bought ROH in early March and had his first big meeting with Gresham last Saturday is very,very telling.

Now I don't know if Gresham ever tried to get into contact with Khan either. Maybe it was a "two ships in the night" thing. Or maybe it was a conversation neither men wanted to have because they knew what the other would have to say.

But I tend to believe it's the responsibility of the employer to stay in contact with the employee. But YMMV.

 

[Just Dave]

4 hours ago, SprintingFromAmerica said:

Maybe I just grew up in an area where too many youth pastors “waited” for select female students in their charge before pursuing them. I remain skeptical…