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LOTR: Rings of Power


Dolfan in NYC

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Remarkably underwhelming response to this given how sizeable LOTR is in popular culture. Enjoyed the second-half of the past episode because as above there was at least some progress but some of these scenes .. the Harfoot song while the bad-CGI map unfolds .. just wow. Alongside the Galadriel from Wish, this has been parody-like at times. $90 million per episode and this is the bang they get for their buck. 

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4 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder if that's because so many people who may have read LOTR 20 years ago didn't read or don't know the other stuff. I do think it's a better written show than Dragons. Even the  part I don't like. 

It's not. It's because they've introduced new characters and 3/4 possibilities for other characters that are outside of the text where, weirdly, House of the Dragon instead of raising mysteries, is answering the potential questions within the actual text (things that were kept vague or up to interpretation as it's written as a history) one after the next and revealing a bunch of stuff no one really cares about that was introduced in Game of Thrones (like the fire in Harenhall). Knowing everything that happens in the Second Age doesn't help you all that much here because it doesn't tell you which character is Sauron or who the Wizard guy is or who the King without a Kingdom will turn out to be, etc.

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16 hours ago, Matt D said:

It's not. It's because they've introduced new characters and 3/4 possibilities for other characters that are outside of the text where, weirdly, House of the Dragon instead of raising mysteries, is answering the potential questions within the actual text (things that were kept vague or up to interpretation as it's written as a history) one after the next and revealing a bunch of stuff no one really cares about that was introduced in Game of Thrones (like the fire in Harenhall). Knowing everything that happens in the Second Age doesn't help you all that much here because it doesn't tell you which character is Sauron or who the Wizard guy is or who the King without a Kingdom will turn out to be, etc.

I honestly think you just spelled out the value of each show.  House of the Dragon for someone like me who has read all available Westeros related material is really good, because the book it is based on is a history being told by unreliable narrators.  I know pretty much everything that will happen, but the little character details are what need to be fleshed out.  My biggest criticism is that we haven't spent enough time with a lot of these characters who's deaths are clear turning points.  I like the Rings of Power, because it is all new to me, and I'm just lost in the story.  I've read The Lord of the Rings once, and watched the movies a few times, but I'm far less invested than I am in A Song of Ice and Fire.  I kind of just want to see what happens, which is rare for this type of show.  I read a lot of fantasy, and I like watching a fantasy show that is just a made up story in a familiar universe.  I know that Sauron is lurking, and that we'll probably meet the ring wraiths, but everything else is a mystery to me, and I'm enjoying it.

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To be frank, for the first 3/4 that was my least favorite episode so far:

  • I don't like battles that mostly consist of shots of nameless characters (because there are only two characters in the whole battle you are familiar with) - I just felt no connection at all to what was happening on my screen.
  • I still have not accepted having gore-heavy scenes in a Tolkien adaptation.
  • The way they switched between Southlands scenes and the Numenoreans travelling was a bit insulting. The Southlands stuff lasted about a day while the Numenoreans travel should have taken weeks - even considering the reduced size of Middle-earth in the adaptations.

To the last quarter:

Spoiler

The Adar resolution was about what I was expecting (I predicted it here a page ago). I saw someone on reddit coming up with the thesis that he might be one of Feanor's sons (I think Maglor, who does not really die in the Silmarillion) - lore-wise it might have worked somehow, though it would have gone way deeper than the series has gone so far. What they did worked perfectly.

It was clear that the key way going to unlock Mount Doom. I first thought that having a key that triggers a volcano was very goofy but the resolution with damns breaking and flooding underground lava halls was not completely silly (at a very basic level, volcanos are formed by water being pushed into the earth's mantle due to plate tectonics, the water lowers the melting point of the material that the mantle is made of and builds up pressure, the pressure is released upwards, hence volcanos) - good enough for me.

Halbrand is going to be Sauron, isn't he? I know people were already speculating about that before, but some scenes in this episode pointed heavily in that direction. The way they are going with Sauron (if that hypothesis turns out to be true) is completely fine for me. In the Silmarillion Sauron was truly sorry about following Morgoth but did not go to Valinor because he was afraid of the punishment. Here Adar talks about Sauron trying to heal Middle-earth after the fall of Morgoth. Sauron trying to "live" an anonymous existence after being "killed" by Adar fits the lore good enough.

 

Edited by Robert s
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Interesting episode .. much more graphic/doomful than previous ones. Only misery awaits those southlanders then ..

Halbrand comment about "binding" the elves to him sounds a bit familiar.

Edited by A_K
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I’m ready for the finale.  I’m not sure exactly where this season is going to land.  But I’ve enjoyed it to where I’m anticipating when it does.  I doubt they’ll blow their whole chip stack just to end season 1 out of 5.  But they’ve got an exploding volcano to top.  
 

 

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Not much happening the the Soutlands Mordor in this episode besides the reveal that Galadriel has "lost" Celeborn. Assuming that they don't go extremely anti-canon, I guess getting him back (I guess from being an orc prisoner for 2000-3000 years?) will be a bigger plot point in a future season.

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The forging of the rings felt a bit rushed and not fully faithful to the source material (the indication is that the Five and the Nine were somewhat the result of a cooperation between Sauron (well, Annatar) and Celebrimbor, the Elves crafted the Three alone as they did not fully trust Sauron and Sauron in the meantime made the One in secret at Mount Doom; Sauron putting on the One revealed who he truly was). I guess they thought as soon as Halbrand got to Eregion, anyone with slight familiarity to the source material will know for sure that he is Sauron.

I am also not sure if I like the the stranger seems to be Gandalf (using the "follow your nose" line from LOTR, though they still can decide to use that as a red herring) and not one of the Blue Wizards. Gandalf being involved in the events at the end of the second age seems weird.

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6 hours ago, J.H. said:

That was a Hogan is the third man level swerve I wasn't expecting 

James

Really? I thought they were very obvious with the scene between "Halbrand" and Adar. They have also dropped other hints (e.g. Miriel's vision that she attributed to Galadriel coming to Numenor while it actually was Sauron coming to Numenor that triggered the beginning of the end).

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12 hours ago, Matt D said:

The five minute scene shipping Galadriel and Sauron was by far the most fan-fictiony thing in this crazy fan-fiction show.

The Tolkien Estate approved it, so technically it's less fan fiction than Peter Jackson.

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I just started watching this tonight, so...completely ignoring everything everyone has already said because I don't want even the merest spoilers and just saying how the first ep feels.  I'm sure several of you have already said these exact same things.

Morfydd Clark couldn't have possibly been better cast, if she's like this the rest of the series.  Just...exactly what you want out of young, kickass, fire-in-her-belly Galadriel (or really any central protagonist).  It's really too bad this is trying so motherfucking hard to be "non-sexy Game of Thrones" instead of charting some other course.  Hey, let's just blatantly rip off the ice wall climb and blatantly rip off the map thing and bounce you around between multiple plots that have little to no obvious connection,  and some of which you really don't care about (yet). 

Speaking of, the Harfoots were lame and pointless until the ending.  I guess that builds up shock value for what ends up happening, but in the meantime, it really busts up the emotional flow of Galadriel's conflict which otherwise would have paired well with the Arondir/Bronwyn sections.  I found it sort of weird that OJ picked on something like Sandman for having a story arc complete midway through and then pick up another (or really, move it from the back burner to full boil), when transitions like this are so much more jarring, as far as I'm concerned.  You go from "all the stakes in the world" to "our biggest concern is someone might be cross with me, and oh, maybe a wolf, I guess" in one cut and then back again. 

The imagery was nice, but also confusing, at least if you're not a Tolkien-head (and I'm not much of one).  The trip to the Grey Havens is a prime example.  I loved how it sealed up and looked as much like the Eye as anything else - nice foreboding - but, uh, hey, didn't we have that whole opening spiel about how the "light of Valinor" was stolen from them and they had to leave, so HEY WHY IS IT SO BRIGHT WHEN THEY GO BACK??  Like, seriously!  Seems so colossally dumb to have played it that way.  I suppose it's understandable if the notion was, "Well, Morgoth poisoned everything so completely while he existed that the light wasn't there until he was gone" but...uh, it really doesn't come off that way and if you have to stretch for that explanation, then your intent wasn't clear and it comes off like a plot hole.

And I guess that's the final point: I suppose I see how the forging of the rings can make a compelling set of stories, but all the stuff they jumped over to get to Middle-Earth *really* feels like tossing away your most interesting material just to get to what people would be more familiar with, and that just plain stinks. 

Edited by Contentious C
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Finished this series Monday, and loved many parts of it while also feeling underwhelmed by others.

Quickly - my only famliarity with the lore besides the Peter Jackson 3logies were those Hobbit/LotR cartoons from the early 80s. So this was mostly new ground for me, with no expectations but here goes my bullet point impressions

  • What the fuck was up with the urgency to have things wrapped up by Spring? High King keeps mentioning this doom and end of the elves as if there's some impending time line they have to complete things by and it had me lost as fuck. We hear from the Dwarves how Elves measure time differently than other races and yet the Elf High King and his engineer dude are sweating out the clock like they're down by 20 with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Felt like plothammer shit to me, unless I missed something
  • Deus ex machina the show. Felt cheap how many times they went to the well with this. If they're down to five seasons, maybe trim the fat and take time to focus on the shit that will actually matter down the line.
  • Loved seeing the Dwarven stronghold before the Balrog got to wrecking shit. Fucking impressive just how MASSIVE they made it look.
Spoiler

Seeing the formation of Mordor was some king sized epicness. Didn't expect that in season 1. Seeing the Elves being shitty warriors was also epic seeing how deadly they came off in the Jackson 3logies. Missed it probably, but I was hoping to see the dwarven women with beards after what Gimli said in Fellowship ? Getting a Sam/Frodo for the series was cool as shit, although those Harfoot feet were trippy as fuck. Legit when you see those giant paws approach the comet crater, I thought we were getting some Morgoth worshipping fiend showing up. Then it turns out to be Nori and I'm laughing like WAIT SHE'S GOT BAPHOMET FEET? WHAT THE FUCK lmao

 

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1 hour ago, Hayabusa said:

(...)

  • What the fuck was up with the urgency to have things wrapped up by Spring? High King keeps mentioning this doom and end of the elves as if there's some impending time line they have to complete things by and it had me lost as fuck. We hear from the Dwarves how Elves measure time differently than other races and yet the Elf High King and his engineer dude are sweating out the clock like they're down by 20 with 3 minutes left in the 4th quarter. Felt like plothammer shit to me, unless I missed something
  • Deus ex machina the show. Felt cheap how many times they went to the well with this. If they're down to five seasons, maybe trim the fat and take time to focus on the shit that will actually matter down the line.

(...)

I definitely agree with the "spring" thing, that did not make any sense at all.

Regarding being "deus ex machina"-heavy: on the one hand that is true, on the other hand, Tolkien heavily relied on that trope so in that sense they stayed true to the source material. It is probably harder to find situations that Tolkien did NOT resolve using dei ex machina. The sudden appearances of the eagles at the end of both the Hobbit and LOTR is the most obvious example, but I can think of A LOT of other examples (just looking at the LOTR, Tom Bomadil and the Ents fit the definition of a deus ex machina pretty well, even Gandalf's "resurrection" could be categorized as such). Apparently, coined Tolkien the term "eucatastrophe" for his kind of dei ex machina.

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