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March 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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4 hours ago, supremebve said:

  I loved Emma's character, because it was utterly ridiculous, but got over because of her commitment to that character.  When they called her up to Raw, they put her on TV and no one got it...so they just scrapped it.  That fucking sucked, because she was playing a character that is based on building a relationship with the audience.

I think this is why it didn't work and something they at times struggles with when talent moved from NXT to the main roster. Emma worked on NXT because she started off as a goof who no one should take seriously and gradually became someone worth believing in. The problem is that you can't then bring her onto the main show and act like that crowd is gonna take her seriously, but also if you just pretend that all that happened on NXT didn't happen then a portion of the audience is gonna grumble (for the main example see when Bayley got called up and how much they struggled to thread that needle).

 

Also TBH Emma seemed embarrassed to be doing it on the big show so it was likely gonna die regardless, scrapping it and having her reload back down in NXT was probably the right move.

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Super well thought out post @supremebve. I don't think it's worth quoting parts I disagree with because it's a lot of opinion and preference, and you posted a lot of good point I don't want to "yeah but". The only thing that I think I can add to clarify considering him one of the greatest technicians in the last 20 years is that some things don't translate well to the audience / aren't entertaining. My best way to explain this is Pepper Parks / The Blade. I have worked him a bunch of times and I would put him up against anyone in the world as one of the best in ring guys ever. I get that he doesn't have a lot of super high rated work by fans. And a lot of his Braxton Sutter run wasn't well recieved. But being in the ring with dude he is smooth as fucking butter and it's hard to articulate why. But it's almost like his work is so on point you can go into auto pilot. You know he's always gonna be where you need him to be and at exactly the right time.

There's a lot of guys out there like that. I can agree with you purely from a fan perspective maybe Triple H doesn't rate that high as a technician. But watching from a wrestler's eye, there's so many little unnoticed things he is amazing at. Feeding to the right places at the right time. Showing ass at just the right time. Feeding comebacks exactly at the pace the crowd is dictating. Fans are smart as hell these days so I'm not saying these are things fans can't watch for. But there are these little unappreciated things a worker can do that factor into how I rate things. Maybe not super exciting, but Triple H is also smooth as butter and anyone who has worked him basically has a night off. Orton is another good example. You hear all these wrestlers dropping his name as the best active wrestler in the world, but not many fans agree. Same principal.

You are right about Triple H and brawling tho. My favorite Triple H match of all time is that Royal Rumble Street Fight with Cactus. (2nd place is his super under rated match against Taka).

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5 hours ago, cwoy2j said:

I remember listening to The Patriot Del Wilkes on Steve Austin's podcast and he detailed all of the pills he was taking then. I was floored. Anytime he had a day off, he'd basically spend the entire day driving from pharmacy to pharmacy getting scripts filled and popping painkillers like they were candy. It was staggering.

I remember hearing this exact story on that exact podcast on a trip to South Carolina. Something like 90 a day. That just doesn't even seem real does it.

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2 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

if anybody in the WWE Creative actually watched the Oscars, they might have Seth Rollins make some joke about Brandi somehow only for Cody Rhodes to make his debut to slap him.

Best we can hope for is one liner from Corey Graves.

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Was Booker any more or less a credible contender and over with the crowd in a novelty tag team when Daniel Bryan main evented Summerslam against Cena from a similar position?

The Pritchard argument of getting to Goldberg anyway makes no sense because the way things panned out is that you could still arrive at that point with minimal change to the storylines. The 6 man tag between Booker/Shawn/Nash vs Jericho/Flair/HHH still occurs with different title. You probably still do HHH/Nash main event while Booker defends on the undercard rather than being in the IC battle royal.

Sure he gets injured and put onto he shelf not long after, but wouldn't Goldberg winning the Elimination Chamber keeps Booker strong and then builds to a HHH one on one match from there make more sense?

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On 3/26/2022 at 8:26 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

 RVD for example was given the chance to main event WWE and usher in a new era of ECW and he would rather get pulled over with drugs in the car than to take his role seriously. 

 

20 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

1. That doesn't matter, a lot of people don't mean to do something, we don't know what was going through his mind.

You literally just assumed what was on his mind. Smh

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7 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

if anybody in the WWE Creative actually watched the Oscars, they might have Seth Rollins make some joke about Brandi somehow only for Cody Rhodes to make his debut to slap him.

God I hope not.

#fuckwillsmith

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On 3/26/2022 at 10:28 AM, Kevin Wilson said:

HHH of all people clearly had the power to refuse to do anything he didn't want to do....

Yes, but at the time HHH was firmly up his own ass in his "cosplay Race and Flair" phase.  And those guys worked bigoted angles like that, so naturally he wanted to try it, too. 

18 hours ago, Krone Meltzer said:

I could be wrong on this, but if I remember correctly (and I could be off base on this) - but I seem to recall Prichard saying on his podcast years ago that they had initially penciled in the Steiner/HHH feud to be a 3 eventer (Rumble, No Way Out, Mania) but that Scott's in ring performance was so bad they had to pivot away from that and we ended up with Booker T.

Oh Prichard.  Sure, Scott's performance was bad.  Awesome to see sycophants put the blame on the guy who most likely wasn't calling the match.  See comment above about HHH's "old school worker" phase.  It's not Steiner's fault HHH decided that a guy with a bad back and drop foot needed to be carried by superworker HHH to a 20 minute classic.  Christ, it's the Rumble.  The title match isn't even the star of the show.  If the idea is to get to the next PPV, and with a limited opponent, get in and get out with a quick angle or something.  Instead, HHH punched above his weight,work-wise, exposed Steiner, and blew the whole planned story.

Edited by Technico Support
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12 minutes ago, username said:

I think this is why it didn't work and something they at times struggles with when talent moved from NXT to the main roster. Emma worked on NXT because she started off as a goof who no one should take seriously and gradually became someone worth believing in. The problem is that you can't then bring her onto the main show and act like that crowd is gonna take her seriously, but also if you just pretend that all that happened on NXT didn't happen then a portion of the audience is gonna grumble (for the main example see when Bayley got called up and how much they struggled to thread that needle).

 

Also TBH Emma seemed embarrassed to be doing it on the big show so it was likely gonna die regardless, scrapping it and having her reload back down in NXT was probably the right move.

I disagree.  That audience will take almost anything seriously, if they present it seriously.  Orange Cassidey, Danhausen, Santino, and countless others have been utterly ridiculous, but they kept putting it on television and treating it like it was serious and all of them got over.  I'm not saying Emma would have turned into a huge star, but they didn't give her a chance to get over.  

@NoFistsJustFlipsOK, I see where you are coming from.  I actually agree with that, and it is what I was talking about when I said I'd rather someone else paint the picture and let him fill in the blank spaces.  He's not someone who I think has great ideas, but I think he's the kind of guy who can someone else's great idea work.  I agree his best match is the Royal Rumble match with Foley.  Foley is his best opponent, because Foley is someone who can come up with a bunch of crazy ideas and HHH can put the pieces together.  It's HHH's greatest ability as a worker, but after he became an established main eventer he was too often put in the position to come up with the ideas and absolutely sucked at it.

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His best match is the Foley match. Which isn't close to being Foley's best match. Might not even be in his top 10, if you're a top 10s guy. There really aren't that many wrestlers who had their career best match with Triple H. Which for a guy who was a perennial main eventer who worked with every big star they had (or tried to make), is pretty embarrassing.

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3 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Was Booker any more or less a credible contender and over with the crowd in a novelty tag team when Daniel Bryan main evented Summerslam against Cena from a similar position?

Yes. Bryan had won the belt in the promotion already & held for a third of a year. Booker brought his belt over to the promotion, promptly dropped it, was chased around a grocery store and bingo hall, covered with food then kidded around with Golddust doing Star Wars and sex jokes. Not similar (& I liked WCW Booker .. but WWF Booker at that time wasn’t it). He was a placeholder at that point in time for a reason.

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40 minutes ago, A_K said:

Yeah, you watch too much wrestling. The guy made fun of his wife’s alopecia.

It's kinda funny that he's ok with her cheating on him and causing him embarrassment, but so sensitive about a joke on an awards show. 

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9 hours ago, Krone Meltzer said:

I remember hearing this exact story on that exact podcast on a trip to South Carolina. Something like 90 a day. That just doesn't even seem real does it.

Yeah it was unreal. How do you not overdose right then and there? I know the long-term damage has to be off the charts but I feel like if I took 90 pills in one day, my liver and kidneys would explode.

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3 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

Yeah it was unreal. How do you not overdose right then and there? I know the long-term damage has to be off the charts but I feel like if I took 90 pills in one day, my liver and kidneys would explode.

Read the book Dopesick.  Opiod addiction is rough because you body turns against you to the point that you have to take an ungodly amount of pills just to stop yourself from being violently ill.  Yes your liver and kidneys might explode from the pills, but everything else might shut down without the pills.

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46 minutes ago, Infinit said:

It's kinda funny that he's ok with her cheating on him and causing him embarrassment, but so sensitive about a joke on an awards show. 

Eh, you do you. She certainly didn't look very amused by the joke. Smith did what he did and he bears the consequences. You make your own decisions as to how you respond around interactions concerning your family.

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1 hour ago, Infinit said:

It's kinda funny that he's ok with her cheating on him and causing him embarrassment, but so sensitive about a joke on an awards show. 

Maybe that was in the past and they’re in a better place now? Reading a couple tabloid headlines seldom makes anyone an expert on another person’s relationship.

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56 minutes ago, A_K said:

Eh, you do you. She certainly didn't look very amused by the joke. Smith did what he did and he bears the consequences. You make your own decisions as to how you respond around interactions concerning your family.

Well, he looked amused enough for the both of them, until she said something to him I'm sure.

I'm personally convinced that Will Smith wasn't slapping Chris Rock, he was slapping August Alsina.

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2 hours ago, supremebve said:

I disagree.  That audience will take almost anything seriously, if they present it seriously.  Orange Cassidey, Danhausen, Santino, and countless others have been utterly ridiculous, but they kept putting it on television and treating it like it was serious and all of them got over.  I'm not saying Emma would have turned into a huge star, but they didn't give her a chance to get over.  

AEW has the luxury of a well-informed audience who has at least some familiarity with talents who are on the indies or in other promotions. This makes it so much easier to introduce new talents and get them over. From a movie or tv show perspective, you can forego the origin story and start with the sequel.

WWE has a much different audience. Throwing someone out there to sink or swim in front of 10,000 fans who don't know who the person is is a recipe for failure. 

 

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