ROH RING OF HONOR in 2022... in AEW

[hammerva]

Maybe this is eventual but kind of surprised that Shane Taylor and his friends haven't been sniffed at in either AEW, the new ROH, or Impact.   They were clearly one of the top groups in the company at the end.   Shane Taylor could have been a heavyweight title contender

[HarryArchieGus]

1 hour ago, hammerva said:

Maybe this is eventual but kind of surprised that Shane Taylor and his friends haven't been sniffed at in either AEW, the new ROH, or Impact.   They were clearly one of the top groups in the company at the end.   Shane Taylor could have been a heavyweight title contender

Wasn't Kaun in that group?  I too think Shane Taylor has potential, but he desperately needs to change up his presentation.  Obviously, getting himself into better shape would have great appeal, but even just finding some ring attire that would be more flattering to his unique bodyshape.  The fit of his current spandex singlet puts him in a 'bad presentation' category with the legendary likes of Greg Gagne and the Giant Gonzales.

I'd suggest a wide legged loose pant or shorts.  Many options there.  How about that Abdullah or Sabu style pant?  The upper half is fine.  

Edited April 15, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[Technico Support]

I really liked O'Shay Edwards and would like to see him get a shot.  But Taylor is definitely the Marty Jannetty of the Pretty Boy Killers.

[HarryArchieGus]

5 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I really liked O'Shay Edwards and would like to see him get a shot.  But Taylor is definitely the Marty Jannetty of the Pretty Boy Killers.

Wait, you're saying he's the better one but has a terrible drug problem?  An even worse drug problem than the more successful one?

Edited April 15, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[TheVileOne]

2 hours ago, hammerva said:

Maybe this is eventual but kind of surprised that Shane Taylor and his friends haven't been sniffed at in either AEW, the new ROH, or Impact.   They were clearly one of the top groups in the company at the end.   Shane Taylor could have been a heavyweight title contender

The problem is AEW's already over-crowded roster and lack of TV/in-ring time for a lot of competent talents.

 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

10 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Something other than tweeting about anti-AEW bots and big announcements. If they need it go dark for a while. Go dark until they come up with a plan. 

This is bad business. ROH already went dark. And it led to them selling the company. If you're in business discussions with a TV network trying to get a deal done in the short term, you keep pumping up the business properties. Title defenses. Putting AEW & ROH guys against each other to show they are equals. If it takes 6-8 weeks to get a deal done, going dark gives fans 6-8 weeks to lose interest / business partners to be like what are we actually buying because no one is talking about this 'ROH' thing anywhere.

Going dark is for failed companies and companies about to go out of business. Going dark just gives off failure vibes to any business partners he is negotiating with. It's not like he gave Rampage to ROH or renamed Dark into Honor TV or anything. They've averaged one ROH title match a week so far. Perfectly acceptable until he gets something agreed to for them to have their own show.

Now if it gets to 6-8 months instead of weeks, yeah I'll be beating that same drum you are. But as is, it's been two weeks of ROH Title matches. Can we chill out on the impatience a bit? When in the history of ever has a company been able to secure a TV deal in two weeks?

[TheVileOne]

2 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is bad business. ROH already went dark. And it led to them selling the company. If you're in business discussions with a TV network trying to get a deal done in the short term, you keep pumping up the business properties. Title defenses. Putting AEW & ROH guys against each other to show they are equals. If it takes 6-8 weeks to get a deal done, going dark gives fans 6-8 weeks to lose interest / business partners to be like what are we actually buying because no one is talking about this 'ROH' thing anywhere.

Going dark is for failed companies and companies about to go out of business. Going dark just gives off failure vibes to any business partners he is negotiating with. It's not like he gave Rampage to ROH or renamed Dark into Honor TV or anything. They've averaged one ROH title match a week so far. Perfectly acceptable until he gets something agreed to for them to have their own show.

Now if it gets to 6-8 months instead of weeks, yeah I'll be beating that same drum you are. But as is, it's been two weeks of ROH Title matches. Can we chill out on the impatience a bit? When in the history of ever has a company been able to secure a TV deal in two weeks?

I'm not convinced by this argument when it comes to wrestling. The WWF vs. WCW Invasion was rushed. All the plans made for WCW never came to fruition. 

Also, ROH was not exactly popping off before they went dark. They were not a heavily mainstream product. They were never able to get major TV play before.

[A_K]

How many legitimate TV spots are even available for all these PW companies? WWE has .. 3? AEW has .. 2? 5 a week already feels mega saturated (and Rampage is averaging only 500k viewers as it is) - plus innumerable web-based offerings between the two companies too. What niche is ROH going to occupy that AEW doesn't already cater to? Pumping the market feels sort of mindless and could lead to burnout real quick, but I guess we'll see.

Surprised they didn't sit on the property then do a full invasion angle at a later date, given they have nigh on all of ROH's key draws now (way more star power than when WCW 'invaded' WWF, arguably). AEW originals vs. the ROH band (Joe, Danielson, Punk etc.) sounds like ratings gold, and also a way to get over the young AEW guys effectively & seriously.

Edited April 15, 2022 by A_K

[NoFistsJustFlips]

4 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

I'm not convinced by this argument when it comes to wrestling. The WWF vs. WCW Invasion was rushed. All the plans made for WCW never came to fruition.

Quit acting like this is a fair comparison. It's not. WWE had an idea to do a WCW show until exactly one Buff Bagwell match happened. Then McMahon blew everything up. They gave up on trying to get a TV deal after one match. And yet WCW was still on WWE TV for 8 months. ROH has been a part of AEW for TWO WEEKS. Not at all the same. And TK has run 2 ROH Title matches so far, and he very much DOES want to get a TV deal for it. So the comparisons here are invalid.
 

9 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Also, ROH was not exactly popping off before they went dark. They were not a heavily mainstream product. They were never able to get major TV play before.

Agree with this point. But that's even more of a reason for TK to pump ROH up now and try to rise it's tide. If he just ignores it, how does that do anything to raise it's profile enough to secure a deal? Listen people are allowed to want what they want out of their entertainment. I myself would prefer if the companies were kept 100% separate, even from right out of the gate. But the ROH involvement has been very inoffensive. And business-wise totally necessary.

Also Keep in mind the only brand new unsigned person they have used on AEW TV for this ROH project will be Dalton Castle (on Saturday). Joe is signed. They've used Suzuki before. FTR are signed. The Bucks (their challengers in the ROH Tag Title Match) are signed. Gresham is signed. Getting all huffy and puffy over one new guy getting one match is pretty alarmist. So again I will ask for you to chill out on the impatience a bit.

[Log]

Also, TK has the core of ROH's "glory days" under contract with Joe, Punk and Danielson. The possibility of seeing them in an ROH ring again is pretty appealing to a lot of wrestling fans.  

Or, at least, it's appealing to me. 

[HarryArchieGus]

The key to the question marks surrounding the new ROH require at least a wee tiny bit of patience.  I'd be kinda surprised if by Wednesday the answers to their TV questions aren't made public (aka the TK Announcement).  Tho, I'm patient enough to wait a little longer if need be.  I too am excited to have 'ROH' repped on AEW TV with their titles, Yuta, Joe, Lethal, FTR and most of all - the upcoming BOTB bout between Gresham and Castle.  You could say 'well, FTR and those names aren't ROH names', but ROH was always pretty transient.  The names most associated aren't those who filled the roster in the dying days (tho, goddamn do I ever want the Briscoes in).  The most memorable names are the legends already suiting up for AEW.       

I don't think ROH needs a substantial niche or to be all that different.  Obviously I can't speak for everybody, but give me smaller venues (especially that one in Lowell and the Manhattan Center), a few handshakes, some play off old themes, and a group of young guns, and I'll be content.  The young guns part is what I'm most hoping for.  A place for guys to get ready for Prime Time, and not to have to compete for TV time with all the legit stars on the AEW roster.  The tape library is obviously the most current asset, but to me the the long game 'money' is building up new stars (which they've already proven they can do), and giving them hot crossover debuts.  Basically, the great opportunities NXT has provided WWE (who clearly have failed to capitalize over and over).  The quality of crossover new talent debuts will showcase the value of this relaunch being of any worth.  Tho, again, that's a patience situation.  Lastly, I'm sorta hoping the TV is lower stakes on a weekend morning or afternoon.  Tho, I'll take an early Saturday evening 605 start too.  If you 'wheel'.  

Edited April 15, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[DEAN]

37 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

The key to the question marks surrounding the new ROH require at least a wee tiny bit of patience.  I'd be kinda surprised if by Wednesday the answers to their TV questions aren't made public (aka the TK Announcement).  Tho, I'm patient enough to wait a little longer if need be.  I too am excited to have 'ROH' repped on AEW TV with their titles, Yuta, Joe, Lethal, FTR and most of all - the upcoming BOTB bout between Gresham and Castle.  You could say 'well, FTR and those names aren't ROH names', but ROH was always pretty transient.  The names most associated aren't those who filled the roster in the dying days (tho, goddamn do I ever want the Briscoes in).  The most memorable names are the legends already suiting up for AEW.       

I don't think ROH needs a substantial niche or to be all that different.  Obviously I can't speak for everybody, but give me smaller venues (especially that one in Lowell and the Manhattan Center), a few handshakes, some play off old themes, and a group of young guns, and I'll be content.  The young guns part is what I'm most hoping for.  A place for guys to get ready for Prime Time, and not to have to compete for TV time with all the legit stars on the AEW roster.  The tape library is obviously the most current asset, but to me the the long game 'money' is building up new stars (which they've already proven they can do), and giving them hot crossover debuts.  Basically, the great opportunities NXT has provided WWE (who clearly have failed to capitalize over and over).  The quality of crossover new talent debuts will showcase the value of this relaunch being of any worth.  Tho, again, that's a patience situation.  Lastly, I'm sorta hoping the TV is lower stakes on a weekend morning or afternoon.  Tho, I'll take an early Saturday evening 605 start too.  If you 'wheel'.  

They have GOT to do TBS 6:05 to 8:05.  That would be so awesome.

[DEAN]

Hey!  It's official.

 

[Technico Support]

3 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

don't think ROH needs a substantial niche or to be all that different. 

I disagree.  I feel like if ROH is just the same ol same ol, then it's just AEW Lite and who cares?  Do something to set it apart.  All matches are Pure Rules?  Maybe go completely UWFi?  Go the route they were planning originally in December, booking shows with whatever indy talents are available at the moment instead of having a set roster?  I have no idea.  But I really feel like it needs to be something other than "AEW with different people." 

Edited April 15, 2022 by Technico Support

[HarryArchieGus]

Just now, Technico Support said:

I disagree.  I feel like if ROH is just the same ol same ol, then it's just AEW Lite and who cares?  Do something to set it apart.  All matches are Pure Rules?  Maybe go completely UWFi?  Go the route they were planning originally in December, booking shows with whatever indy talents are available ten instead of having a set roster?  I have no idea.  But I really feel like it needs to be something other than "AEW with different people." 

I'm sure you're not alone in that thinking.  I know it sounds plain, but if it works as I assume it might, I bet you'll love, as much as me, the simplicity of a roster of mainly Young Guns given a canvas to exceed.  Especially if (I get my wish and) the Arenas look and feel as cool as the early Raws and ECW.  I do think the Pure Rules Matches will help to present a small but nice contrast.  And I get the impression we may indeed see some unsigned talents get a shot to have show stealing matches.  'AEW with different people' has long been my dream for Impact Wrestling.  And MLW for that matter.  That is to say - no authority characters, no magic camera skits, logical booking, traditional style promos and matches where the winners and losers nearly always have an opportunity to shine (at least on the TV shows minus the obvious enhancement bouts).  If we need to diverge - I'll take a little more emphasis on rematches.  And none of Khan's backwards booking of gimmick matches followed by 'straight' matches (tho, he seems to be graduating from that foolishness).        

[Kang]

Really its AEW contracted people in the separate promotion ROH.  It's a unique setup, sending AEW people down to ROH. And more belts to use and book.

 

[evanknight]

Feels like ROH will become what NXT was that Vince didn’t want it to be. Technically under the main company umbrella, where everyone is signed to the main company, but run separately as mainly a “minor league” but one without as much of “entertainment” that some wrestlers will prefer to stay in and not get “called up”. 

[HarryArchieGus]

3 hours ago, evanknight said:

Feels like ROH will become what NXT was that Vince didn’t want it to be. Technically under the main company umbrella, where everyone is signed to the main company, but run separately as mainly a “minor league” but one without as much of “entertainment” that some wrestlers will prefer to stay in and not get “called up”. 

Seeing as it's not being booked by a McMahon I'm gonna assume it's unlikely that developing talents will be wary of moving up to Wednesday Nights.  I do think it will be comparable to the previous NXT.  But without the bad acting and same-y repetition of style.  

[Wyld Samurai]

3 hours ago, evanknight said:

Feels like ROH will become what NXT was that Vince didn’t want it to be. Technically under the main company umbrella, where everyone is signed to the main company, but run separately as mainly a “minor league” but one without as much of “entertainment” that some wrestlers will prefer to stay in and not get “called up”. 

Asides from being contracted by a major promotion- wasn't ROH always a feeder league for those with TV?

Save for 'dem boys.... dem dirty dirty boys.

[Hail Sabin]

ROH TV on Sinclair might be done since it was set to air an hour ago & instead 2 Gameshows took it's place. 

[Hail Sabin]

Sorry for the double post

Update it didn't air last night but it is currently airing in its post SNL Timeslot here. In opens with Roderick Strong vs. Eddie Edwards for Manhattan Mayhem, Jay Lethal vs. Jay Briscoe Title vs. Title & Jonathan Gresham vs. Dak Draper. I did just see an article saying this is the last weekend ROH airs on Sinclair stations. 

[The Natural]

[twiztor]

i'm thinking about what this new ROH looks like, hopes to accomplish and what it needs to do to succeed. but i'm pretty ignorant about ROH, especially of the last few years.

what were the ratings/PPV buys for pre-Khan ROH? i know it wasn't on a national big time network so it's not directly comparable to Dynamite or w/e, but i think it helps in determining the hardcore fan base.

is there a contingent of ROH fans that don't watch AEW? and what factors would separate them? the in-ring house style? the presentation? the performers?

i may regret asking this, but what happened to Flip Gordon? he had a significant role at All In, and it was kind of a big deal that he remained with ROH, so i was kind of surprised he wasn't included here.

[HarryArchieGus]

I don't think the ROH base was strong enough to focus upon it.  I haven't seen an actual numbers comparison between Supercard, which generated 20,000 buys (not even factoring in Honorclub which is how I bought the PPV), next to the previous standards, but word is it was a shockingly substantial increase.  How that translates going forth I suppose we'll see.  As far as the ROH base goes, I think paying respect/homage to the tradition of the company is a fair invitation to those whom stuck out the lean years.  I think it's also necessary to pay said respect for the letters to have any meaning.  As for the comparisons, maybe it's a bit simple to say, but here goes, AEW is ROH with better execution and a better aim at both contemporary style and mass consuption.  The main difference between AEW and ROH seemed to be the degrees of success and product quality.  That said, perhaps I'm overlooking something a more careful 2019-21 ROH viewer would care to share?

Edited April 17, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[DEAN]

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I don't think the ROH base was strong enough to focus upon it.  I haven't seen an actual numbers comparison between Supercard, which generated 20,000 buys (not even factoring in Honorclub which is how I bought the PPV), next to the previous standards, but word is it was a shockingly substantial increase.  

I was thinking this morning that the Briscoes should get the IMPACT! tag titles and challenge FTR to a rematch and have it on IMPACT! PPV.  That would also be a substantial increase next to previous standards (though the Kenny Omega PPVs in IMPACT! were substantially higher.)  Plus the Briscoes could get a win back.  Plus the match would be awesome.

EDIT: Also note that without FTR/Briscoes, that ROH PPV would have gotten 2,000 buys, tops.