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January 2022 Discussion of Wrestling


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4 minutes ago, Web Conn said:

I’ve been thinking about it and I have a question for everybody. Why wasn’t Bam Bam Bigelow are bigger star?

What I mean by that is why was he never a Top Guy for any period of time? Why was he never a World Champion? Why is his name never brought up when talking about the best to ever do it? ECW and New Japan seemed like the only places they understood that he worked best as an asskicking heel. 

The guy had a distinct look he could move like a man half his size, him and Lawerence Taylor main evented Wrestlemania, he had main stream appeal he was in Major Payne, the flash in the pan run with Goldberg was exciting shit it’s still exciting to watch his first month in WCW 23 years later. It’s a shame 

Bam Bam had an odd trajectory. He was amazing in 87 WWF. He could have been a strong villian for Hogan had they not went the route of Andre. Bammer going to WCW/NWA in 88 was strange. He had the match with Barry and outside of that really didn't do much.  Had some strong runs in Japan and then back to WWF.  

He was a strong hand anywhere he went. I know towards the end of his career he no showed a few events but outside of that he seemed to get constant bookings and was over with the crowd anywhere he went. What kid or adult is going to forget  the guy with the flame tattoo on his head?!  

 

The Kliq might have hurt his 95 run, but the guy should have had gold in WWF well before then. 

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His 2 Memphis runs were boss, but his he started hot in WWF as they did the same angle with him that they did with Savage (i.e. who will manage the hot new guy). He would've been a perfect guy going for the IC belt but Savage/Honky was hot and they really didn't book him well for Mania 4. Post Mania 4 he was having matches where he was getting destroyed by Andre and then he showed up in WCW for Starrcade (and really should have gone over imo). His 2nd WWF run he ran afoul of the KliQ and got his push derailed by al accounts. After that he was in ECW, won the title for like 2 weeks when he really should have kept it over Douglas because Bam Bam was fresh at the top of the card. Then came WCW where I barely remember him being used after Goldberg

James

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8 hours ago, twiztor said:

last i heard, Corgan's NWA is again going to have a weekly show on YouTube. @DreamBrokenwas still posting recaps of their show a couple weeks ago, so he probably has more info.

i was hooked with the first run of POWERRRRR but never tuned back in after the pandemic when it moved to Fite (or whatever service it's on). mainly because they lost so much of their talent (Thunder Rosa, Ricky Starks, Eli Drake, etc.) maybe i'll check out this new show. i really hope they succeed.

correct "NWA USA" is the name of the new show that begins airing on Youtube this coming weekend while Powerrr will remain on Fite. The last couple weeks were just year in review type shows. I thought they've done really well considering the loss of talent and each of their recent PPVs they've built to end up turning out really good. The last one they've added a lot more talent, plus using some ROH names now. I believe they are planning on the Crockett Cup again and that being the next PPV.

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1 hour ago, paintedbynumbers said:

Bam Bam had an odd trajectory. He was amazing in 87 WWF. He could have been a strong villian for Hogan had they not went the route of Andre. Bammer going to WCW/NWA in 88 was strange. He had the match with Barry and outside of that really didn't do much.  Had some strong runs in Japan and then back to WWF.  

He was a strong hand anywhere he went. I know towards the end of his career he no showed a few events but outside of that he seemed to get constant bookings and was over with the crowd anywhere he went. What kid or adult is going to forget  the guy with the flame tattoo on his head?!  

 

The Kliq might have hurt his 95 run, but the guy should have had gold in WWF well before then. 

He had a really ill-timed knee injury in the early part of 88 too. That's why his match with OMG at WMIV was so short. That plus his heat with Andre were the big reasons he ended up leaving at that point.

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Bruce Pritchard talks about why Bam Bam wasn't a bigger star on his podcast (they recently did a BBB episode). I forget what he said exactly but I think it was basically that Bigelow kept getting in his own way. 

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3 minutes ago, J.H. said:

I remember Bam Bam/Andre at the Garden live and thought it was going to be great and it was... Andre just killing him!

James

I remember Heenan telling a story in a shoot interview about how Andre was annoyed with Bigelow, so during the match when Bigelow did his falling headbutt Andre just stuck his fist in the air and knocked Bam Bam out cold. 

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I think Bigelow was pretty awesome. But dude main evented a Wrestlemania & got a run as ECW World Champion. He main evented King of The Ring against Bret. He was treated like a big deal in 1987. I think he hit about the ceiling he should have hit. He didn't have that mega star level of charisma. And in those days only the tippy top guys got to run with the title. He wasn't a Hogan / Warrior / or Savage. Had timing been different and he been protected  better there's a chance he could have gotten a shot with the title instead of the Yokozuna run. But even that is a stretch.

By the time he was in ECW he was mailing it in. But Heyman knew how to use him to get others over. Taz & Douglas wouldn't have been solidified without him. He got that WCW money at the end of his career but he was in full on t-shirt mode and had no passion left. Basically he made it to the level he should have. We all remember him fondly. He consistently made money and brushed up against the main events on occasion. He just didn't have the it factor to be tippy tippy top Hogan / Piper / Sting / Flair / Savage level. His look at promos were just basic average tough guy biker vibes, not mainstream darling vibes.

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1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

Bigelow running afoul with Andre and then Flair didnt do him any favors. 

Wonder how different it would have been had Dusty not wanted to put the big gold on Rick Steiner and then leaving for WWF.  Would Dusty have given Bam Bam a push?  Shit in hindsight why not push for Bigelow-Flair instead of trying to put Rick Steiner in that role?

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11 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I think Bigelow was pretty awesome. But dude main evented a Wrestlemania & got a run as ECW World Champion. He main evented King of The Ring against Bret. He was treated like a big deal in 1987. I think he hit about the ceiling he should have hit. He didn't have that mega star level of charisma. And in those days only the tippy top guys got to run with the title. He wasn't a Hogan / Warrior / or Savage. Had timing been different and he been protected  better there's a chance he could have gotten a shot with the title instead of the Yokozuna run. But even that is a stretch.

By the time he was in ECW he was mailing it in. But Heyman knew how to use him to get others over. Taz & Douglas wouldn't have been solidified without him. He got that WCW money at the end of his career but he was in full on t-shirt mode and had no passion left. Basically he made it to the level he should have. We all remember him fondly. He consistently made money and brushed up against the main events on occasion. He just didn't have the it factor to be tippy tippy top Hogan / Piper / Sting / Flair / Savage level. His look at promos were just basic average tough guy biker vibes, not mainstream darling vibes.

Mailing it in??????? He had the best match of RVD's career that wasn't with Jerry Lynn. He only mailed it in at the very end when he was leaving as IIRC Paul was bouncing checks on him. But he was his own worst enemy. A great example of this was in All Japan he got his pay envelope and counted it like he was dealing with your typical sleazy promoter in front of Baba. As you are all probably aware that is an unthinkable faux pas and obviously he was never bought back.

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1 hour ago, sabremike said:

Mailing it in??????? He had the best match of RVD's career that wasn't with Jerry Lynn.

Fair point. Yeah his run at the end is what stuck out most. But he did go hard the first few months there. Not trying to sound like I'm not high on Bam Bam. He's one of the best big man workers ever. But I'm just saying the ceiling he hit was about right for a guy with what he brought to the table. At least in America. I'm a little surprised he never had a monster run like Vader or Hansen or Dr Death in Japan.

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I think the ECW stuff Bam Bam did is solid, but I don't feel like he ever quite put it together as a singles until then, and he quickly then lost whatever magic he had in WCW after that. 

This is probably a somewhat unpopular opinion, but I think he was best and most consistent as a tag worker. I like his stuff with Vader, and I think my favorite WWF match of his is probably that tag match with Tatanka against 1-2-3 Kid and Bob Holly. A lot of that is also Waltman being a bump machine and a great FIP, but Bam Bam is excellent in control. 

I always wondered at Bret loving his matches with Bam Bam. I thought the KotR final was just okay and so was the match in Spain on the Bret Hart collection. I'm sure I've seen them on a random Coliseum Video tape in a different match as well that I thought was inoffensive, but nothing special. 

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I loved Bam Bam's late WCW run going after Goldberg with no entrance music and jumping him randomly with the announcers playing off as him not being under contract, I thought it was one of the more believable "He doesn't work here!" runs. There was the one where the car came squealing in and Bam Bam came out of the car and attacked Goldberg and it was so chaotic and well-done that it was probably the most realistic fight WCW had done since the early NWO demolishes WCW angles. If there was anyone planning things in WCW, you could have built this up bigger (especially since Wikipedia said he'd signed a lucrative 2-year deal so might as well get something for the money) and instead of had BBB just fed to Goldberg either done a "Who hired Bam Bam to take out Goldberg?" story or launched the Jersey Triad stable earlier and had DDP using Bam Bam to wear down Goldberg so he could finally beat him. I know it's hindsight and it's WCW, but still!

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Bam Bam also spent a year in Doink purgatory. I'm surprised they were able to heat him back up after that. But hard to be seen as a star when you're running mixed tags against a clown and a little person, and playing tamed husband or whatever to the wild child Luna. I think bringing him in as that 1987 babyface character and having a top of the card run with Yokozuna could have been fun. But there's really not a place it fits in. Yoko squashes Duggan. Wins The Rumble. Beats Bret, immediately loses it to Hogan. Squashes Hogan. Does 6 months with Lex. Does 6 months with Taker. There's a mini Crush run in there too. Then back to Bret. In a different timeline a hot babyface Bam Bam coming in doing athletic hoss matches would have been good shit.

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8 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

I remember Heenan telling a story in a shoot interview about how Andre was annoyed with Bigelow, so during the match when Bigelow did his falling headbutt Andre just stuck his fist in the air and knocked Bam Bam out cold. 

Heenan also tells a similar story of Andre doing exactly that to Warrior who was being too stiff with his clotheslines. Supposedly, Warrior ran straight into an extended fist by Andre, and started doing the clothesline spot in basically slow motion after that.

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7 hours ago, caley said:

I loved Bam Bam's late WCW run going after Goldberg with no entrance music and jumping him randomly with the announcers playing off as him not being under contract, I thought it was one of the more believable "He doesn't work here!" runs. There was the one where the car came squealing in and Bam Bam came out of the car and attacked Goldberg and it was so chaotic and well-done that it was probably the most realistic fight WCW had done since the early NWO demolishes WCW angles. If there was anyone planning things in WCW, you could have built this up bigger (especially since Wikipedia said he'd signed a lucrative 2-year deal so might as well get something for the money) and instead of had BBB just fed to Goldberg either done a "Who hired Bam Bam to take out Goldberg?" story or launched the Jersey Triad stable earlier and had DDP using Bam Bam to wear down Goldberg so he could finally beat him. I know it's hindsight and it's WCW, but still!

I remember liking it too. It reminded me of Bam Bam Vs. Taz. A big tough guy coming in to challenge the toughest guy in the territory. 

I guess they tried that with DDP Vs. Taker, and that turned out extremely miserable.

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My take on Bam Bam -

He seemed to be all over the place in terms of promotions. He flipped from the Fed, to WCW, back to Vince, ECW, WCW again... He never really felt like a "WWF Guy" or "WCW Guy" who had earned a shot through tenure in the same way guys like DiBiase, Piper or Jake the Snake had.

He was also nowhere near the kind of top level star who could just plug into a world title program anywhere he went. He had talent, yes, but he wasn't that kind of guy.

I also think his look, unique as it was, held him back from that top level. He looked like a dirty, tattooed, bar fighting biker guy. Even on his best day, Vince is not putting the title on him.

WCW could have maaaaybe given him a run somewhere in the late 80s or early 90s (fans of that era could point to a reign somewhere that could be swapped to Bammer I'm sure) but once they had Flair back, followed by Hogan & Savage coming in there was no chance.

Outside of pre Hogan WCW his best shot would have been to pick up a random title run in 2000 but then he's vacating it 3 days later so what's the point!

Edited by L_W_P
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For those of us in Japan, a schedule for the remainder of this week (hope I have  the times right):

Tuesday Jan 4th: 9am AEW Dark Elevation (Jake Atlas debut). 5 pm Wrestle Kingdom Night One (Shibata. Hiromu vs Despy. Shigo vs Okada...)
Wednesday January 5th: 9 am (I think) AEW Dark:Just Dark. 5 pm Wrestle Kingdom Night Two (Naito vs Cobb, Tana vs KENTA...)
Thursday January 6th: 10 am AEW Dynamite (BRYAN VS PAGE II !!!) (and Jade vs Ruby in The Battle of the Gemstones...)  
Friday: Come on, Pro Wrestling! What the hell are we supposed to do with ourselves on Friday?
Saturday January 8th: 12 noon: AEW Rampage (Kingston, Santana, & Ortiz vs 2point0 & Garcia, No Holds Barred) 5 pm: Wrestle Kingdom Night Three (NJPW vs NOAH) (with, somehow, zero true dream matches, but on the other hand my boy Kotoge gets a singles match!)
Sunday January 9th: 10 am AEW Battle of the Belts (Riho vs DMD)

Out of all of that, I think I'm most excited for Dragon vs Cowboy Shit part two. But there's something to mark out hard for every day. Except Friday.

(Those of us outside of Japan can enjoy the same feast of pro wrestling, though dates and times may differ in certain cases).

2022 feels like a pretty great year to be a wrestling fan, so far!

Edited by Gordlow
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