December 2021 Wrestling Discussion

[Ace]

15 hours ago, Dog said:

Is it weird that my memory says no one here liked ROH during its actual heyday? Like, mid-2000s. I feel like everyone thought it was too spotty at the time, but came around on it after the fact.

Most antipathy towards ROH was towards Rob Feinstein himself and his spamming the board.

 

[SirSmUgly]

23 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I fully support getting the bag. My advice for anyone at any job is to get your money and get out the game. Your job doesn't love you. Your only relationship to your job is to get as much money as possible so you can live the life you want. Fuck everything else. So,  if that is why he stayed,  good on him. With that said,  I'm not him,  and can only speak for what I wish happened... and I wish he left. 

Right, right. As fans, we can want something different than the employee, and both of our wants are valid from our standpoints.

But I step outside of that to say secure the bag, always. And try to secure it and get out so that you can still remember your kids' names in 25 years. 

[Craig H]

I couldn't less if KO re-signed with WWE. There's about a million people in AEW right now. I don't even know how they're going to eventually book for Keith Lee or anyone else they'll maybe sign.

I can't even think of the last time I even saw KO wrestle since I rarely watch any WWE. Dude took the money and ran. Good for him. 

[Just Dave]

2 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

I'm cool with KO staying in WWE.

AEW is so hot right now that they run the risk of overload by bringing in every single star that walks from WWE.

KO will absolutely cash in over the next 3-5 years with WWE and then, if he wants to, he can head to AEW as the guy that FINALLY became 'All Elite'. He will probably get an even better deal/reception/booking etc in 3 years time than he would if he walked in there now.
 

My money's on him getting released before he sees the end of the contract. WWE is more accounting firm than sports entertainment company at the moment, and signing a long term deal is no guarantee of long term stability.

[HarryArchieGus]

3 hours ago, christopher.annino said:

I would bet money that they did, and then I would bet more money that in due time KO will be released for "budget reasons." He might as well get the most out of them now while he can.

Ugh, I guess that's what you call hope, and I do hope. 

I haven't seen Steen since watching clips of his WWE debut and early run.  I loved his pre-E indy run.  I was stoked to hear he was showing some interest in jumping ship.  Sure, I get taking the money.  Still, what a bummer this resigning news brings.  I guess I won't likely be seeing him wrestle in 2022.  Was really looking forward to it.  Here's hoping El Generico doesn't follow suit.  

[RIPPA]

1 minute ago, just drew said:

My money's on him getting released before he sees the end of the contract. WWE is more accounting firm than sports entertainment company at the moment, and signing a long term deal is no guarantee of long term stability.

It all depends on if he got a no cut clause in his contract.

A lot of the bigger contracts had them for awhile (and some of them still do). That is why it was so surprising when Braun got released because he DIDN'T have one.

I have a feeling in the last six months or so - folks who are considering re-upping with the company have gotten them in their contracts - or at least the savvy ones did

[odessasteps]

13 minutes ago, L_W_P said:

I'm cool with KO staying in WWE.

AEW is so hot right now that they run the risk of overload by bringing in every single star that walks from WWE.

KO will absolutely cash in over the next 3-5 years with WWE and then, if he wants to, he can head to AEW as the guy that FINALLY became 'All Elite'. He will probably get an even better deal/reception/booking etc in 3 years time than he would if he walked in there now.
 

Presuming they are still around in 3-5 years. (You can prob say that about wwe too, depending on who owns them in that time.) 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Beyond the most important part (securing as much money as possible for his family), I can't help but remember the interview he gave about almost retiring completely before WWE came calling. His knees were shot then, to the point he couldn't do cardio anymore. I wouldn't be surprised if his thought process is the less demanding WWE style is also better for his long term health. Maybe his body is more beat up than he lets on, and wasn't looking forward to the higher expectations of the AEW in ring style. Hoping he got way over paid and was smart enough to demand the no cut clause. He strikes me as an extremely intelligent guy so I'd be shocked if he didn't get one.

[John E. Dynamite]

17 hours ago, Dog said:

Is it weird that my memory says no one here liked ROH during its actual heyday? Like, mid-2000s. I feel like everyone thought it was too spotty at the time, but came around on it after the fact.

The other day I was trying to remember what went down at a certain Joe-as-champ era RoH show and Google linked me to an old quebrada.net / Mike Lorefice review. He shit on everything, every match was like *3/4 this and **1/4 that. Every single move is referred to by a more-complicated (and sometimes incorrect) Japanese name. Anything that could not be immediately compared to another Japanese thing was proof positive that there was no good wrestling in North America, and that Homicide blowing fire in Samoa Joe's face was the equivalent of HHH groping Trish Stratus.

I remember a little bit of that contingent existing here when I first started lurking. I always read it as obsessive young men doing that thing where they viewed self-righteous nitpicking as a more mature way to interact with a hobby than being a kid and liking things. The first level of that was deciding that you hated WWE and liking RoH or NOAH or whatever. The next level was hating the indies and only viewing puroresu as valid. And it was always these staunchly anti-Meltzerist types who still felt the need to assign star ratings to everything. It was weird to read that kind of stuff again. I'm very glad that internet wrestling discussion has moved past that bullshit.

Edited December 16, 2021 by John E. Dynamite

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

8 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

The other day I was trying to remember what went down at a certain Joe-as-champ era RoH show and Google linked me to an old quebrada.net / Mike Lorefice review. He shit on everything, every match was like *3/4 this and **1/4 that. Every single move is referred to by a more-complicated (and sometimes incorrect) Japanese name. Anything that could not be immediately compared to another Japanese thing was proof positive that there was no good wrestling in North America, and that Homicide blowing fire in Samoa Joe's face was the equivalent of HHH groping Trish Stratus.

I remember a little bit of that contingent existing here when I first started lurking. I always read it as disillusioned, obsessive young men doing that thing where they viewed self-righteous nitpicking as a more mature way to interact with a hobby than being a kid and liking things. The first level of that was deciding that you hated WWE and liking RoH or NOAH or whatever. The next level was hating the indies and only viewing puroresu as valid. And it was always these staunchly anti-Meltzerist types who still felt the need to assign star ratings to everything. It was weird to read that kind of stuff again, I guess I'd blocked it out using the same techniques that I use to forget my own teenage embarrassments (I definitely remember calling KENTAfuji matches 'too spotty' while watching Dark Age NJPW Wataru Inoue matches). I'm very glad that internet wrestling discussion has moved past that bullshit.

Mike Lorefice always struck me as someone who took things way too seriously, and if you had told me he was some kind of serial killer it would not have surprised me.

[RIPPA]

11 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

always struck me as someone who took things way too seriously, and if you had told me he was some kind of serial killer it would not have surprised me.

There are many people on here who I love and would be distraught if anything happened to them... this statement also applies to them

[SirSmUgly]

I don't think there are any actual serial killers here. Why, once I asked around for information about the best temperature-controlled storage lockers that will take cash and are in out-of-the-way locations, and no one had any good suggestions. 

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

14 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

There are many people on here who I love and would be distraught if anything happened to them... this statement also applies to them

I find it hard to argue with this logic.

[Elsalvajeloco]

I totally feel fine that folks are discussing whether or not a certain person could be a serial killer and said person has my address. Doesn't weird me out at all.

[HumanChessgame]

I can't really explain why, but Kevin, Sami, and Cesaro have just struck me as WWE lifers. They've all got their niches should they care to continue occupying them and it seems like they're content to do that. While I wouldn't doubt they'd love to have another run with their friends on the indies, and lord knows I'd love to see that, but I get the impression they feel better occupying the spots they have and making the money they're getting.

[Craig H]

I want Sami to stay in WWE purely because I think it's hilarious that he's probably a pain in the ass too Vince.

[Ultimo Necro]

I think the simplest answer to why Owens re-upped is.

1) He is a natural heel

2) Re-upping with WWE is the biggest heel move he could have made in the eyes of some fans.

And also…

3) Somehow, someway, this contract extension will lead to a beat down on Sami Zayn…. Because that’s just what those two do.

[odessasteps]

16 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

I can't really explain why, but Kevin, Sami, and Cesaro have just struck me as WWE lifers. They've all got their niches should they care to continue occupying them and it seems like they're content to do that. While I wouldn't doubt they'd love to have another run with their friends on the indies, and lord knows I'd love to see that, but I get the impression they feel better occupying the spots they have and making the money they're getting.

Swiss Money Holding knows how to save his money, I bet. 

[Eivion]

2 hours ago, Craig H said:

I want Sami to stay in WWE purely because I think it's hilarious that he's probably a pain in the ass too Vince.

Sami does supposedly get what he asks for the most part. It somehow makes sense to me now if Vince just says yes to get him to go away.

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

It’a funny how much people who have never met Owens or Vince know what’s going on inside their heads.  It’s possible Owens just took the money.  It’s also possible that Owens likes the crowds and his co-workers and doesn’t dislike Vince as much as fans want him to.  It’s even possible AEW wasn’t as interested as we think they are wete.  I dunno.  I must have forgotten to ask Tony how much he offered KO last time he came over for tea.

KO made the best decision for him and and his family.  I don’t have a clue about what he was offered or what he was thinking when he decided to re-sign, so I’m really confused how the rest of you know him so well. Odds are Owens decided to re-up after thinking about a variety of factors we have no clue about.

 

 

Edited December 16, 2021 by Tarheel Moneghetti

[Dog]

1 hour ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

KO made the best decision for him and and his family.  I don’t have a clue about what he was offered or what he was thinking when he decided to re-sign, so I’m really confused how the rest of you know him so well. Odds are Owens decided to re-up after thinking about a variety of factors we have no clue about.

So you don't know what he was thinking, but it was about his family, and we have no clue, but it was a variety of factors.

[username]

To me Owens felt like the guy who should have chosen to re-sign with WWE rather than go to AEW, so while a bit surprised that it actually happened I think it was probably the right move? Dude is 37, regularly takes awful looking bumps and has been overweight most of his career (and VERY overweight for stretches of it). At that point you have to assume that the next contract he signs has a good chance to be the last full-time/big money one he'll have the chance to, and given that WWE likely wanted a "win" in terms of having someone choose them instead of AEW the odds of them paying a bit more than they otherwise would have seem fairly high. Dude's put his time and work in, this is likely secure your future time and I'm fine with him doing just that.

[AxB]

 

[The Natural]

• On Excuse Me: The Vickie Guerrero Show, Mick Foley was asked which of his “Faces of Foley” is his favorite:

I love being Cactus. At the time I was doing it, I enjoyed being Dude Love for two months during the ‘Summer of Love’ [in 1997]. But when November rolled around and I was still dancing in the ring, I was like, ‘Oh. This character has run its course.' But I love being Dude Love on Cameo videos. It’s the hokiest. Dude has reinvented himself as a lounge singer. So, I do birthday songs. (Foley sings badly) So I love doing it.

But if I had to pick one I would pick Mankind. Latter-day Mankind. And the reason is -- I didn’t realize it at the time, but that latter-day Mankind character was really connecting with people who didn’t feel like they fit in. So it was kind of a sense of -- a source of -- we’re supposed to take people’s minds off their problems and entertain. But it took me years to find out that people were connecting and felt a kinship with this guy who didn’t quite fit in but found a way to become a big deal anyway.

Mankind is my favourite of the Three Faces of Foley. Mankind was the first heel I ever liked when I was 11 years old. Mick Foley is one of my favourite wrestlers ever so it was great meeting him in 2003. Years later I got to thank Mick for the experience and he thanked me as well.

[The Natural]

Fuck off Flair.