Dynamite - 12/1/21

[John from Cincinnati]

23 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

To add to that too, view it through the lens of him being psycho over the top for hometown Atlanta shows. I mean the last time they were there he did a moonsault off the super jumbo cage. If they are in Atlanta and he is in the main event, he's doing something crazy.

You're right and they should clearly be running Atlanta as often as Chicago. 

[S.K.o.S.]

I don't really think this is graphic enough that it needs to go in a spoiler, but just in case, for the squeamish. It's a tweet with a picture of Cody's back after the flaming table spot.

Spoiler

 

One of the quote tweets of this is something like "He did this stupid spot for only 861,000 viewers?" and I'm absolutely killing myself laughing. Like, have you seen what some people will do for an audience of 30 plus however many people buy the DVD of the show afterwards?

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

8 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This thread is a bummer. It's also kind of convinced me I'm probably out of touch. There's multiple negative takes on the flaming table spot. And I'm legitimately shocked by that. It's a bunch of people too, a lot who are generally positives most weeks, so I gotta be the one with the wrong take then I guess. Because I thought it was dope as fuck. So I'm left to kind of break things down and ask a few questions to see why my opinion is so different than the the rest of the thread.

Do you like the Reverse Suplex off the top as move in regular form? A whole lot of people shit talking the execution. So do you like the way it looks as a move normally? If the answer is no I can understand still not liking it when it's leveled up with fire. But if you normally do then I totally don't get shitting on the execution. It was the same move it's always been. Cody's back takes the brunt of the bump. In Kayfabe Andrade's face / torso takes the impact. Like the visual of this is exactly what the visual of The reverse Suplex always is, which I've never seen shit on before. And if you pause it during the impact (I did), yes Cody back is in fire, but Andrade's whole face is in fire and looks like an explosion went off in his face. Face damage > back damage.

Someone mentioned why didn't Brandi move the table. Keep in mind the human aspect of the execution. You can't make a guy take fire in the face. Andrade might have agreed to take the spot but only if they did it in a safe way to where he's not in danger of getting his face burnt off. The table placement was definitely agreed to ahead of time I'd think. Andrade most likely was okay with the spot if he could essentially land with his feet under him and able to flop away immediately.

Also someone asked rhetorically if maybe Cody's back was burnt up from practicing the spot earlier in the day. Not trying to pick on ya but that is just insanity to even consider lol. ZERO percent chance they practiced landing in fire. Now they probably practiced burning the table to see the speed of the burn rate. They probably practiced the move and positioning of the landing to keep Andrade safe, may have even done that with a table (which is normally never done). But I promise you no one is going to practice a bump into live fire with a camera off. If something goes wrong during practice it's an emergency and you didn't even get a TV moment out of it. If something goes wrong on live TV, it's still an emergency but at least you get a TV moment out of it.

I will end by asking the question, is this a legitimate beef with the spot? Or are people kind of done with Cody so whatever he does makes you roll your eyes? I mean both answers are valid. I'm just genuinely curious. I dig Cody's stuff more often than not. But that isn't shading my view on the bump. I'd think anyone pulling it off with that exact same execution is fucking crazy and dope as fuck. So is it a Cody thing? (The Blood & Guts finish was shit on in a similar way and I loved that. So I'm starting to just assume the things I grew up admiring and loving are just not what the younger audience love and admire today).

This is an interesting take.

I liked the whole show, but as I said: I didn't feel like I needed to see a flaming table spot.

It isn't "a Cody thing" for me, in this case, and it certainly wasn't any kind of issue with the technical execution of the spot (though I can see elements of both of those elsewhere in this thread).

For me personally, and I'd assume it's true for others, I just don't like seeing pro wrestlers take wildly unnecessary risks for relatively  limited pay-offs. It's the same issue I had with the finish to Blood & Guts, and Exploding Ring. Even if the camera angle on Jericho 's cage bump had been perfect, I think I would have enjoyed the match a lot more if it had ended inside the cell. Even if the explosion had been spectacular, I think Mox and Kenny could have put on a great match without it. You know what I mean? 

I don't think that this is a case of "the younger audience" not liking what you like, considering that I am 56 years old. I just don't like that level of risk taking. I'm worried that someone is really going to get hurt, badly, some day in an AEW match. 

Also: I've seen Foley take a bump off the cell. I've seen Onita work in an exploding ring. Any attempt to replicate that... is going to look like "an attempt to replicate that." Any attempt to top it is doomed to fail because when you are competing with sacred memories you cannot win. So, I just don't feel like the pay-off can justify the risk.

 I have no equivalent comparison for flaming tables... What would the apt comparison be, here?

My other issue with the spot was a "why now" issue. No pun intended, but Cody vs Andrade did not feel heated enough to justify that spot. Why wouldn't you save something that insane for a blow off to a major blood feud on a PPV? 

You have answered that question, though. It wasn't a "why now" but rather a "why here"? I hadn't considered the location/Cody's hometown/this is where he did his cage moonsault... So that part of it makes more sense to me now. Thanks!

Still, while I love almost everything about AEW, I sure wish they'd go to the Attitude Era Big Stunts well less often. That is a "me thing" though. It's cool that you, and others, mark out for that stuff. AEW gives me loads of wrestling comedy, relatable characters, highly technical wrestling, Japanese guest stars, and on and on that I love but that aren't for everyone. 

So, I guess it would be churlish of me to complain too much about massive contrived stunt bumps that other people love but aren't my cup of tea.

 

Edited December 3, 2021 by Gordberg

[DEAN]

But it looked awesome.

[chriskbrown50]

9 hours ago, Dog said:

I thought the Gage match was perfect for what it was, but otherwise agreed. 

I excluded the Gage match on purpose - Gage came with a set of hardcore expectations when he showed up that they delivered on. I am not a Gage hardcore fan at all; gimmicks need to be used in the right place and time. I still think the dog collar match between Piper - Valentine is the perfect example. Wen Wahoo broke out the indian strap or Dusty the bull rope it mean business.  Showing my age.

Still AEW remains a fresh of fresh air - and grateful for what has brought to wrestling, if only for Tully and Arn are on TV, and Tony in the booth. 

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

8 hours ago, Krone Meltzer said:

Edit - Sheeeeeeeeeit.

Are you legit THE Krone Meltzer? 

This board used to boast a PolishBobStupak and other luminaries, I never know how serious to take it

[Krone]

17 minutes ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

Are you legit THE Krone Meltzer? 

This board used to boast a PolishBobStupak and other luminaries, I never know how serious to take it

Yes, I am the real Krone Meltzer. If there's anyplace for me to go by this name it would have to be here.

[Just Dave]

So, I was there. And I... liked it? It wasn't as good as the first Atlanta Dynamite. That show had the feel and audience buzz of a big time rock show. That crowd was almost feral in it's appreciation of the alternative to WWE. It was also downtown. This was at Gas South, about thirty minutes north of the city proper. It wasn't the same vibe. That arena hosts minor league hockey and some other things, but it isn't the Home of the Hawks. 

 

(SPOILERS) The Dark matches were all really fun. I won't spoil too much, but QT Marshall, Jungle Boy and the Varsity Blondes got the biggest reactions for that set of matches. I thought .Ogogo returning is cool, but having him return on Dark reeks of "Kross debuting on Main Event" level of weird. I think Tony Khan is overestimating the level of audience goodwill he is currently being afforded. More on that later (End Spoilers).

Punk and Bryan being in the first hour was insanely cool to me. Lee Moriarty is a guy who's real popular in Atlanta, and it was fun to see him in a big spot. Big things in the future for that dude.

I saw Alan Angels at a Georgia indy a few years ago, before Dark Order was a thing, and so it was amazing to see him in a big match on Dynamite. I think TK has to start being a little more discerning with his tv matches. Punk and Danielson wrestling is cool, but one of those probably needs to have a bigger name opponent. 

Adam Page got a huge reaction. I know some people on twitter think he's responsible for AEW's ratings downturn, but he's popular as hell live. Love that dude.

Seeing Sting live in 2021 was surreal. The match wasn't fabulous, but it didn't need to be.

I will have "Ruby Soho" the song stuck in my head forever. It was super cool to see her live, and she is a STAR. Statlander is a personal favorite, for reasons, and she got a good reaction, but in person Ruby was the star. She seems like a lovely person, and it makes me happy to see her.

The Young Bucks running from a beating will never not fill me with joy. When they're allowing themselves to be booked properly, rather than as unstoppable terminators, it's not nearly as annoying. Adam Cole, for reasons that still escape me, is a big time act. He's 5'7 with a head like an Easter Island statue and a body made out of pipe cleaners, but he connects with the audience somehow. 

Ricky Starks got a really good reaction. 

The main event was kind of a mess live. The reaction to Cody was very split, but he got some solid pops. I don't understand the choices being made with regard to Andrade and Malakai Black. They gotta get both those guys away from Cody. The booking made little sense to me. You have these two big stars that got away from nXt, and their first order of business is an endless slog with a guy who isn't allowed to wrestle for a title? It doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Andrade rules. I'd love to see him destroy wimpies on Dark and Dynamite for a couple months and then take the TNT Title from Sammy. He presents as such a big deal. I thought Cody getting that win was pretty counterproductive, but the match was good and Cody will die for our enjoyment in Georgia. I'll say that about him. He is his father's son.

I'll wait until Friday to talk about Rampage.

[ExcellenceofAirPollution]

3 minutes ago, Krone Meltzer said:

Yes, I am the real Krone Meltzer. If there's anyplace for me to go by this name it would have to be here.

small world.  If true, I'm talking to a legend.  Respect.

I'll let you in on a little secret, I'm the real ExcellenceofAirPollution.

[Custos]

4 minutes ago, ExcellenceofAirPollution said:

small world.  If true, I'm talking to a legend.  Respect.

I'll let you in on a little secret, I'm the real ExcellenceofAirPollution.

Check out his post history, he’s talked a bit about his feelings at the time etc elsewhere on the board (if that meets your threshold for proof in this crazy online world in which we inhabit )

[Krone]

41 minutes ago, Custos said:

Check out his post history, he’s talked a bit about his feelings at the time etc elsewhere on the board (if that meets your threshold for proof in this crazy online world in which we inhabit )

I'll link my facebook if I need to damn it! lol (but in all seriousness, my location is already in my bio plus people know my last name so it's not hard to confirm this is me)

[Dog]

You're not the real Krone until you correct the spelling of the last name. It's MeTZLer, not MeLTZer.

[John E. Dynamite]

Imagine if there's a pluderific Malakai Black vs. Cody match. Like on a big theme episode of Dynamite or something.

Black does some dork/cool Folk Metal pose. Drinks unrefined pine sap brandy from a marmot skull chalice or something. The lights go out mid-match - for awhile, there's clearly a struggle going on for a bit. Before they go back on, a TABLE in the middle of the RING is set on FIRE. WHAT? DUDE! You HIDE THE DUMB SETUP and highlight the FUCKIN FIRE. Within the DARKNESS, all the crowd can see is a TABLE IGNITE. This generates what is known as a POP. Has this been done? Do this.

Lights back on, Cody's on the top rope and Black has him set up for a superplex or something of the sort. If Cody wanted to be a babyface, he'd know the shine goes to the guy who TAKES the bump. So Cody fuckin' takes the bump. One of 'em wins, whatever. But we don't get to have a moment like that, because the first fire spot in AEW was something else entirely, something entirely Cody.

Edited December 3, 2021 by John E. Dynamite

[TheVileOne]

After Cody lost to Malakai Black the second time, I saw no reason for the feud to continue. Secondly, what happened with all that stuff of Arn Anderson being angry with Cody and thinking Cody had gotten too "Hollywood?" They pretty much dropped all of that.

[eikerir]

I really liked Andrade’s street fight outfit tonight. Most guys go for the jeans and T-shirt look but he looked like a Mob boss when they roll up their sleeves and loosen their tie ready to get their own hands dirty. 

Edited December 3, 2021 by eikerir

[The Natural]

The Darby Dive. Nothing like it.

[Technico Support]

4 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

After Cody lost to Malakai Black the second time, I saw no reason for the feud to continue. Secondly, what happened with all that stuff of Arn Anderson being angry with Cody and thinking Cody had gotten too "Hollywood?" They pretty much dropped all of that.

It was a blink and you miss it, two week angle.  Arn exorcised Cody’s Hollywood demons by burning his pink tie one week and then having him take bumps with trainees the next.  This makes it two times now we thought we’d get a Rocky 3 angle out of Cody, only to wrap it up quickly with nothing resembling an interesting story or payoff.

[Matt D]

Will continue to give credit where it is due for announcing like the tope hesitation bit last week: I enjoyed the exchange between Tony and Taz where Tony asked him a question about how vertical suplexes work and Taz gave the best logical answer he could.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

14 hours ago, eikerir said:

Darby/Sting was fun but as always is Sting getting the sun

Sting is just traumatized from what happened last time he showed up without a tan.

[John from Cincinnati]

3 hours ago, Technico Support said:

This makes it two times now we thought we’d get a Rocky 3 angle out of Cody, only to wrap it up quickly with nothing resembling an interesting story or payoff.

Doing a Burgess Meredith death angle with Arn would be tasteless and probably wouldn't work in a wrestling context, but you do you. 

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Sting is just traumatized from what happened last time he showed up without a tan.

This made my laugh even though Sting vs. Hogan at Starrcade 1997 royally pisses me off to this day for how it went down. Fuck Hogan and fuck Eric Bischoff for that and that lame ass excuse.

[(BP)]

How about Arn wakes up in a world overrun by car jackers, but he’s out of ammunition?

[tbarrie]

17 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Doing a Burgess Meredith death angle with Arn would be tasteless and probably wouldn't work in a wrestling context, but you do you. 

I dispute the "wouldn't work in a wrestling context" part. Lucha Underground wasn't afraid to kill off characters without expecting anybody to think the performers who portrayed them had died. AEW should take inspiration from Lucha Underground (in so many ways).

[Zakk_Sabbath]

19 minutes ago, The Natural said:

This made my laugh even though Sting vs. Hogan at Starrcade 1997 royally pisses me off to this day for how it went down. Fuck Hogan and fuck Eric Bischoff for that and that lame ass excuse.

I'm not a big podcast guy, but there is a suuuuper cathartic, very NSFW clip on YouTube of Conrad Thompson unloading on Bischoff about it that I think you'd enjoy

[Zakk_Sabbath]

24 minutes ago, tbarrie said:

I dispute the "wouldn't work in a wrestling context" part. Lucha Underground wasn't afraid to kill off characters without expecting anybody to think the performers who portrayed them had died. AEW should take inspiration from Lucha Underground (in so many ways).

I don't hate the idea, but it flies in the face of the idea that it's a more sport-based show. It would make an interesting hook for a smaller organization like NWA or Impact, though. Or really anywhere that wants a very clear tonal difference from the rest of wrestling. For example, I thought that whole Jeff Katz WRP thing had potential for something like this.