October 2021 Wrestling Discussion

[Zakk_Sabbath]

If this has been discussed already, forgive me, but I saw a report of Bryan Alvarez mentioning that when Moxley was on his way out of WWE, they attempted to leak false information about him to make him look bad on the way out, and that it might be a similar situation here. Not that I'm a Charlotte super-fan or anything, but I'm a little disappointed to have seen not a single grain of salt these last couple pages.

[Niners Fan in CT]

kennedy was so bad he was released for being careless in the ring. Everyone should protect their opponent, that's the most important aspect of any match. 

[Raziel]

Mox is a board favorite.  Charlotte is a tall blonde, which is Vince's perfered, and was superpushed over people the board wanted pushed, therefore she's undeserving of anything other than scorn and trashing.

 

The hivemind has spoken, disagree and you'll be run out of this "happy family".

[NikoBaltimore]

Can we PLEASE stop talking about Charlotte?  I know the month's almost done but this is going down a path that's leading to this closing early.

[Technico Support]

Can we get back to questioning whether "Cody is a heel who thinks he's a face" vs "Cody is an oblivious dumbass?"

[Niners Fan in CT]

22 minutes ago, Raziel said:

The hivemind has spoken, disagree and you'll be run out of this "happy family".

Disagree there. i remember well i was one of the only people defending Sasha's choice to as many said "take her ball and go home"  because she felt she deserved better and was being left to toil in the undercard.  There were reports "leaked" of her and Bayley supposedly causing a scene at the hotel which have been since proved to be inaccurate. Were there apologies posted for that not really..  To this day there are posts about her "attitude"  and if anyone bothered to check they'd see that she's actually beloved in the women's locker room and she handpicked Bianca as the person she wanted to wrestle at WM.  

The situation is not unique to Charlotte. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Niners Fan in CT

[Sublime]

36 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

 

The situation is not unique to Charlotte. 

It does seem to be pretty common for the women wrestlers (especially Charlotte and Sasha) though, strange almost like @Stefanie the Humanis correct or something.

Stefanie is always a welcome voice to this board, in part, because of the usual un-checked misogyny around here, but you all keep chasing her away whenever she tries to stand up and say something meaningful, instead of reflecting on your own behaviors and attitudes and implicit biases. Some of you may be old but you're not grown. I just saw someone use the term "funbox" to refer to the anatomy of Benchoff's wife and, joke or not, that shit is disgusting. This place, and wrestling fandom in general, can be hostile, intended or not, towards non-male individuals. I don't think most of the people here are bad or anything I just think not every one has 1) addressed their internal implicit bias and 2) think about the difference between the intent and impact of their statements.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

15 hours ago, Technico Support said:

ALL this shit needs to go.  All the toxic, abusive bullshit in wrestling that’s just accepted because “that’s how it’s always been.” 

No. It doesn't.

Speaking as a worker with 18 years experience, you don't learn or grow or get better by hugging and holding hands man. Different people learn different ways. And negative reinforcement is a real thing that works for some people. This a career path that is very physical. Everyone who gets into wrestling knows that and accepts that, and honestly that's a big draw for a lot of the people in the business. So taking a stiff forearm isn't a big deal. I've been there. I've fucked up a spot or forgot something. And when you get checked with a wake up shot it doesn't make me mad or hurt me, or hurt my feelings. It helps me refocus and get back to that mental place I need to be to get things back on track. It's hard to explain the fight or flight adrenaline ride your mind is in while performing. But just communicating with words isn't gonna break through that for most workers.

Now the specific thing you're speaking about, Charlotte giving a wake up shot to Kari who had a concussion, is an unfortunate turn of events. You have the benefit of hindsight. Charlotte just did what you do. She's in third gear just running the machine. Had she known Kari was hurt she would not have done any of that. But she didn't. So it's not fair to project what you know with hindsight onto her in that moment. But the concept of hitting someone a little harder to wake them up is not toxic. It's not abusive. It's a real and valuable tool. One that I promise all of your favorites have used in their careers.

[Niners Fan in CT]

52 minutes ago, Sublime said:

It does seem to be pretty common for the women wrestlers (especially Charlotte and Sasha) though, strange almost like @Stefanie the Humanis correct or something.

i didn't say she wasn't correct.  The rest of your post... can't comment on that. Not sure who or what you are referring to. i don't read/post on the board as much as i once did with a different work schedule. 

Edited October 27, 2021 by Niners Fan in CT

[Sublime]

Most of my response wasn’t directed at any one individual and not you really at all.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

No. It doesn't.

Speaking as a worker with 18 years experience, you don't learn or grow or get better by hugging and holding hands man. Different people learn different ways. And negative reinforcement is a real thing that works for some people. This a career path that is very physical. Everyone who gets into wrestling knows that and accepts that, and honestly that's a big draw for a lot of the people in the business. So taking a stiff forearm isn't a big deal. I've been there. I've fucked up a spot or forgot something. And when you get checked with a wake up shot it doesn't make me mad or hurt me, or hurt my feelings. It helps me refocus and get back to that mental place I need to be to get things back on track. It's hard to explain the fight or flight adrenaline ride your mind is in while performing. But just communicating with words isn't gonna break through that for most workers.

Now the specific thing you're speaking about, Charlotte giving a wake up shot to Kari who had a concussion, is an unfortunate turn of events. You have the benefit of hindsight. Charlotte just did what you do. She's in third gear just running the machine. Had she known Kari was hurt she would not have done any of that. But she didn't. So it's not fair to project what you know with hindsight onto her in that moment. But the concept of hitting someone a little harder to wake them up is not toxic. It's not abusive. It's a real and valuable tool. One that I promise all of your favorites have used in their careers.

I'm not a worker but I think it's stupid, abusive, and cowardly to hit someone for real in 1) in a worked sport and 2) when they're not expecting it, just because they made a mistake.  Look, I think Tom Cruise is a nutjob and a real asshole.  If he got mad at another actor and decided to "take liberties" during a fight scene to put that actor in line, that would be some bullshit.  If I got pissy at a coworker and decided to solve it with a sucker punch, I'd lose my job.  "Wrestling works differently" is, in my opinion, some old time carny bullshit used to justify all manner of awfulness.  Lio Rush getting a "bad rep" because he didn't want to sacrifice his dignity and carry someone's bags.  All the women who came out with harassment and assault stories last year.  All the Rougeau/Hennig/Bulldogs stupid ass bullshit we talked about in the Viceland thread.  All the perpetrators in those and many other stories of abuse fell back on "that's just wrestling."  It's childish and absurd in 2021.

[supremebve]

41 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

No. It doesn't.

Speaking as a worker with 18 years experience, you don't learn or grow or get better by hugging and holding hands man. Different people learn different ways. And negative reinforcement is a real thing that works for some people. This a career path that is very physical. Everyone who gets into wrestling knows that and accepts that, and honestly that's a big draw for a lot of the people in the business. So taking a stiff forearm isn't a big deal. I've been there. I've fucked up a spot or forgot something. And when you get checked with a wake up shot it doesn't make me mad or hurt me, or hurt my feelings. It helps me refocus and get back to that mental place I need to be to get things back on track. It's hard to explain the fight or flight adrenaline ride your mind is in while performing. But just communicating with words isn't gonna break through that for most workers.

Now the specific thing you're speaking about, Charlotte giving a wake up shot to Kari who had a concussion, is an unfortunate turn of events. You have the benefit of hindsight. Charlotte just did what you do. She's in third gear just running the machine. Had she known Kari was hurt she would not have done any of that. But she didn't. So it's not fair to project what you know with hindsight onto her in that moment. But the concept of hitting someone a little harder to wake them up is not toxic. It's not abusive. It's a real and valuable tool. One that I promise all of your favorites have used in their careers.

I disagree with this pretty strongly.  There is a difference between being tough with someone and being abusive.  I played football, done some judo and jiu jitsu, and there is never a reason to physically abuse someone to get your point across.  You don't really get the Charlotte thing without the abusive environment.  I don't know if she knew Sane had a concussion or not, but if hitting people in the head when they make a mistake isn't an accepted part of an abusive culture, it probably doesn't happen.  I remember my sister telling me a story about a teacher conference she had with my niece's sister.  Her teacher brought up the fact that my niece said, "My mom's going to beat me," when she got in trouble in class.  The teacher, who didn't think she was serious, still decided to bring it up when she talked to my sister.  My sister told her, "No, I've never put my hands on my children, but I threaten to do it all the time."  It's a physical activity, and there is a potential for people to get hurt when they get sloppy, but there is a way to communicate that you need someone to straighten the fuck up without actually physically abusing the person.  Wrestling culture as a whole is toxic, we've been talking about it on this board for over a decade.  Excusing the behavior just pushes that toxic behavior down to the next generation, when you could address it and stop it now so it doesn't continue.

[Just Dave]

I'm gonna say a couple things, then I'm gonna leave this topic alone.

First of all, I 100% believe we live in a time where it's no longer necessary to "work through an injury" or give someone a "wake up" slap midmatch. I will admit that part of my sharp reaction to this practice is because I had to walk away from a promising football career early in college because I was pressured to play through nerve damage in my shoulder in high school. It wasn't until I started losing feeling in my left arm that I was able to see a specialist. The injury was far worse than I was told.  I felt obligated to play through it. It's been 20 years and I still don't have 100% utility. It's enough to play guitar and do other things that I enjoy, but there will always be a reminder. That's why I have zero patience for folks saying "it's just how it's done." It fucking shouldn't be.

 

As for the misogyny thing, I think I'm just overly critical (man) of workers I perceive to be hand picked for opportunities rather than the gifted workers they leapfrog. I mean, go look at what I post about the Young Bucks. Adam Cole. Seth Rollins. I assure you, Charlotte's gender has nothing to do with why I don't have any time for her.

[thee Reverend Axl Future]

[supremebve]

1 minute ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

How dare you?  This is clearly a space man and no fake news article is going to make me think differently.

[Dolfan in NYC]

1 hour ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

 

[Spontaneous]

Now, what if he was a spaceman? Would that change the fact that "The Mummy" is more evil than Killer Kowalski in the ring? I would say no. 

[Swift]

What are some of the strangest venues/locations wrestling shows have taken place in?

I'll start with this one - https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=288421

[Dolfan in NYC]

I mean, depending on the position of the ship, the matches on the Jericho Cruise can be labeled as happening "Somewhere in the Bermuda Triangle".

In fact, why the hell isn't that how they advertise it?  

[clintthecrippler]

22 minutes ago, Swift said:

What are some of the strangest venues/locations wrestling shows have taken place in?

I'll start with this one - https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=288421

I will always have the biggest smile on my face watching Bull Pain work the crowd at the WOMEN'S PRISON:

 

 

[Spontaneous]

We've had bungee rope matches, black top matches, monster truck matches and cinematic matches, how has no one done a Sky Diving match? It's carny enough to work. 

Before anyone tells me it's too dangerous, I know. 

[RIPPA]

I am just gonna mention this here so someone doesn't go "Why is no one talking about it?"

Ring of Honor announced they are taking the first quarter of 2022 off and will return in April 2022 with a "reimagining"

For discussion and full details see the ROH thread

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

27 minutes ago, Swift said:

What are some of the strangest venues/locations wrestling shows have taken place in?

I'll start with this one - https://www.cagematch.net/?id=1&nr=288421

It has to be BJPW related, right? Or Zona 23?

This is wacky.

 

[DEAN]

3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

It has to be BJPW related, right? Or Zona 23?

This is wacky.

 

There are a zillion videos from this diner/bar and grill.

 

[Swift]

I think I'd limit it to "there has to be a wrestling ring setup" otherwise yeah BJPW and DDT and the like would dominate.