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LOKI (Disney+ Series)


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I was a little disappointed to see Kang, if only because I was sold on the idea that this was really going to tie everything off and Loki would be his own enemy in the end. He (they) sort of was (were) with Kang just being a stimulating force to drive things to a character conclusion, but it's 100% on them that they didn't do a better job laying clues or setting up elements that would payoff as Kang for anyone OTHER than some crazy Marvel fan who knew who Ravonna was or how Alioth fit into Kang's backstory or what Qeng Tower meant. They could have done a much better job laying down breadcrumbs. 

That said, in 2021, do they really have to? Every single person on this board watching the show, which means 90% of the people I'll be talking to about it, knew that Kang was a real possibility to be behind that door. Is that enough? Is that earned enough?

Alternatively, if this is now planned to be a three season show or what not, you've set up a big bad at the end of act 1 in a fairly reasonable way based on everything that happened in said act, so, that seems ok too.

As for Majors playing Kang as a character, they took the base idea and extrapolated him in a few different directions. There wasn't a single thing about Kang in there. I think that was a small misfire as they're trying for dissonance between him and what's worse, but I wish they had kept his boredom in the idyllic 31st century as a driving force. It may not have made him a conqueror but it meant that he tampered with forces that should have laid untouched. A throwaway line would have made him at least resemble comics Kang along that thematic line.

I will say this: having seen this finale, there's no reason at all that Mephisto couldn't have been in the last episode of WandaVision. Absolutely none. It would have been exactly the same thing.

Edited by Matt D
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1 hour ago, Matt D said:

 

I was a little disappointed to see Kang, if only because I was sold on the idea that this was really going to tie everything off and Loki would be his own enemy in the end. He (they) sort of was (were) with Kang just being a stimulating force to drive things to a character conclusion, but it's 100% on them that they didn't do a better job laying clues or setting up elements that would payoff as Kang for anyone OTHER than some crazy Marvel fan who knew who Ravonna was or how Alioth fit into Kang's backstory or what Qeng Tower meant. They could have done a much better job laying down breadcrumbs. 

 

I actually think they threaded the needle here almost perfectly. They didn’t leave any breadcrumbs for non-comics fans pointing to Kang, but they definitely pointed to “someone” being behind the TVA.  I would have preferred an evil Richard Grant Loki, but they revealed the man behind the curtain and explained his how/why. 

For the non-comics viewers, they revealed who was behind it, provided his motivations, and set him up at least as the antagonist for Loki season 2.  That shot of the statue of Kang where the Timekeepers statue had been likely served as an “oh shit” moment for the uninitiated, letting them know that shit’s about to go down. I don’t think they have to know who Kang is for those moments to land.  When he shows up in the future, those people will feel a little more familiar with his character than he they just dropped him into something like “By gawd, that’s Kang!”

For the rest of us, we know it’s Kang, meaning they paid off all the Kang teases along the way, while also letting us know just how big a deal this is going to be moving forward.

I think all the shows have done a decent job serving two different audiences, but I feel like this episode managed serving those two audiences on two different levels without taking anything away from the other.

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I was not all that impressed with the performance of Jonathan Majors. But I hope this version of the character is not the basis or starting point for THE actual Kang the Conqueror. Since it was basically a He Who Remains variant version of Kang, my hope is when we actually get to Kang the Conqueror, it's something more imposing.

Loki called him "terrifying," but I never felt that at all. He came off as impish and Puck-like. But I never felt like he was a danger or like his humorous veneer was hiding something dark and ugly. 

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4 hours ago, JonnyLaw said:

Given the complicated nature of Kang in the comics, with so many different versions of him coming from so many different times, I thought the way they introduced him was pretty brilliant, with another version of him who explained/foreshadowed relatively simply how there were many different variants of himself competing for supremacy. It’s different from introducing an evil character and then confusing people by saying, “No, this is a different version.”  I think What If? will also help ease the more casual viewers into the idea of the multiverse, time travel, and variants.

I'm hoping at least one of those episodes has an animated Kang. But I also hope What If..gives us an idea how the Thanos Copter ended up in the void

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24 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Loki called him "terrifying," but I never felt that at all. He came off as impish and Puck-like. But I never felt like he was a danger or like his humorous veneer was hiding something dark and ugly. 

Remember, one of the biggest things that shook Loki the most in the show was the Infinity Gems as paperweights bit. This was a guy who had that level of power and he was just goofing about. I think that's what he found terrifying. There was no "Glorious Purpose" there. Just the mundanity of it all.

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11 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Remember, one of the biggest things that shook Loki the most in the show was the Infinity Gems as paperweights bit. This was a guy who had that level of power and he was just goofing about. I think that's what he found terrifying. There was no "Glorious Purpose" there. Just the mundanity of it all.

It's kinda just that.  If *this* Kang can basically control the entire flow of time and prevent a multiverse from even existing, and he's just a goof, than what the hell would a motivated, evil Conqueror of time and space do to reality.  It's not this version of Kang he finds terrifing, it's the concept of this goof's work and existence being all that stands between all of creation and Thanos cranked up to 11.  This Kang created a place that rendered the items that wiped out half of all life in the universe, restored it, then wiped out a horde with a few finger snaps totally inert.  If the Infinity Stones, the before thought of "most powerful forces in the Universe" can be turned into costume jewelry, what the fuck can you actually defeat him with?

Edited by Raziel
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22 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Remember, one of the biggest things that shook Loki the most in the show was the Infinity Gems as paperweights bit. This was a guy who had that level of power and he was just goofing about. I think that's what he found terrifying. There was no "Glorious Purpose" there. Just the mundanity of it all.

Yeah, and I'm still rather annoyed with that reveal because it just doesn't functionally work to me. The Infinity Gauntlet includes a time stone which can conceivably warp time. So now to nerf the gauntlet the stones and gauntlet this way is head-scratching. I just didn't feel the fear or or terror coming from that character.

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agreed, this version of Loki kept thinking he found purpose, and getting the rug pulled out from under him, again and again. I assume more comic accurate personalities are coming, but as someone who has to go back and do more reading, this was a good intro to the least harmful Kang, and it's just gonna build

Assuming the Kang that Scott Lang and Hope meet is one that's been trapped in the quantum realm for ages, maybe since Janet got stuck there? Going to be really really interesting

Getting Doom right is gonna take ages so I'm glad they're not rushing or hitting it, you have to setup the Fantastic Four, and getting the multiverse in place now gives Doom an eventual goal, b/c I'm guessing somewhere in third saga they'll do secret war, and probably pull from the 2015 version and give us God Emperor Doom (which is a good place too end off Strange if the time has come for that)as the ultimate bad

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1 hour ago, Matt D said:

Remember, one of the biggest things that shook Loki the most in the show was the Infinity Gems as paperweights bit. This was a guy who had that level of power and he was just goofing about. I think that's what he found terrifying. There was no "Glorious Purpose" there. Just the mundanity of it all.

Conversely, Sylvie not only hasn’t had that moment of reckoning, but has successfully fought the TVA every step of the way. As such, it stands to reason she’d barge forward to complete her own “glorious purpose” without stopping to consider the consequences.

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25 minutes ago, Bustronaut said:

The Kang statue reveal at the end (in his comic costume!) was the best downer ending since ESB, and I cheered at the reveal of a second season!

Reminded me a bit more of the ending to 2001's Planet of the Apes. 

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Now i want to see Jonathan Majors in Ancient Egypt dressed as Rama Tut.

liked the episode. Majors was a little too off center, similar to Andrew Scotts Moriarty, which i didnt care for at all. 
 

glad theres a season 2. Wonder if it will come out before the Dr Strangevmovie. 

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Loved the finale. Thought they built up Kang well, and Majors did a good job with that version of him. Also thought the drama with Loki and Sylvie was well done. Definitely left me excited for the aftermath for the MCU and season two in general.

Will say that I ultimately don't think an even evil Loki would have worked here. So much of Loki's character beats were really hit upon by the end of episode 5 that an evil Loki would have been a bit anti-climatic. We saw Loki forced to confront himself in basically every way already. The important drama for the finale was the choice by him and Sylvie once they learned the truth.

Also have to say I like how fan expectations were played with a pinch in terms of how this and WandaVison worked out. There was so much everyone just knew was going to happen in WandaVision that people got wrong that it forced fans to temper expectations a bit for later shows. That allowed for Loki to really blow things up with that ending. I'm curious if that was by design or chance.

Edited by Eivion
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Also, if Strong never wears the blue mask and helmet, I will riot.

Quote

I saw someone mention being benevolent and his color scheme, that was immortus tonight and not Kane Per se., 

 

His outfit was closer to Immortus, but he was actually He Who Remains and not Immortus. 

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I think they should have used a different Kang for this.  Now, I haven't read any comics with him so I'm not comparing anything from them to this performance.  I just think this version of Kang (if we anticipate other variants to show up in other projects) should have been used for Ant-Man.  More of a whimsical villain for Scott to bounce quips off of.  This one should have been the tired old man he claimed he was instead of upbeat and a sort of Riddler/Joker.  Something with more weight to it while not going full Conqueror.  Show some frustration and anger with all the work he has done and still things can fall into chaos.  His "You're welcome" would have hit harder if it was done in a more subdued Nicholson from "A Few Good Men" sort of way.  Could just be me. 

Sort of only looking forward to Moon Knight and Dr. Strange going forward unless casting news or trailers sway me.  If casting rumors for Hawkeye are correct that could also be fun.

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One of the things I love about the MCU (and the Arrowverse) is that they’re basically modern day comics. That is a pretty obvious statement, and obviously actual comics still exist, but while comics have moved in a “more realistic” direction, these movies and shows have moved towards embracing a more “comic booky” approach. Think about the first X-Men movie lampshading how they didn’t use the comic uniforms versus Loki referencing the Thanos Copter and Throg.  I like that, along with the fact I don’t have to spend $5 per issue per month for something that may be a five minute read.

I’ve been thinking about this, and the Loki finale has kind of solidified the following thought for me to some extent: moving forward, I think most of the D+ series are going to be more analogous to monthly series/limited series, while the movies are going to be more akin to the big event crossovers.  The series will dive deeper into their characters, while laying a lot of the character/motivation ground work for what happens in the movies, while the movies are the big events that “change things forever”, as will be seen in subsequent series.  Obviously you’ll have your one shots like Black Widow, but I wonder if we’ll see fewer “obscure” movies like Shang Chi and Eternals without laying the groundwork in the series first (similar to what they sort of tried to attempt with the Inhumans, only now with everyone on the same page). I suspect we’re already seeing this with the seeds being planted for Young Avengers and Dark Avengers/Thunderbolts, even if there are no concrete plans for them yet.  

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