Hell in a Cell XIII - 6/20/2021

[The Natural]

I really like Alexa Bliss since she debuted on the main roster in 2016. This incarnation with Lilly does very little for me. I do prefer it to when she was with the Fiend for how that came about, male on female violence meets Stockholm syndrome. Give me the Alexa Bliss of 2016-2017.

Edited June 24, 2021 by The Natural

[DreamBroken]

In 2017-2018, I had Alexa right up there with Charlotte, Sasha, and Asuka. Thought she had great matches with all of them. 

15 hours ago, Kev said:

 What are the standout Alexa matches

Her 2017 series with Sasha (Great Balls, SummerSlam, and the following RAW) was great stuff, I'd say that was her best in ring work. 

Other matches I liked a lot were 1/1/18 RAW vs. Asuka, Survivors 2017 vs. Charlotte, and HIAC 2018 vs. Ronda. 

[Kev]

13 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

In 2017-2018, I had Alexa right up there with Charlotte, Sasha, and Asuka. Thought she had great matches with all of them. 

Her 2017 series with Sasha (Great Balls, SummerSlam, and the following RAW) was great stuff, I'd say that was her best in ring work. 

Other matches I liked a lot were 1/1/18 RAW vs. Asuka, Survivors 2017 vs. Charlotte, and HIAC 2018 vs. Ronda. 

Thanks for the recommendations. I went back and watched the Sasha series (I saw the ppv matches at the time but don’t remember much of them), I’ll try to watch the other stuff when I get a chance. I came out of it probably a bit more positive on Alexa - she’s definitely good at some stuff (mainly on offence) - but the criticisms I have are still there (some of it not aided by the booking). 

Great Balls of Fire - this had the best structure but was hurt by the finish. Sasha got shine early, with Alexa pulling the double jointed fake out to hit a great forearm and take over, really cool spot. From there her offence is good, some vicious looking stuff, including standing on her back and stomping on her head, a hair-pull backbreaker, and even the chokeslam/STO was good here. This is helped by Sasha’s flexibility and contorting her body, making everything look nasty. Alexa uses crafty, opportunistic stuff to cut Sasha off. Sasha comes back as we go into the finishing sequence, Alexa hits a nice code red out of the corner. Sasha gets the bank statement, with Alexa staying in this too long, going over half way across the ring to reach the ropes. This is the sort of little thing where I think Alexa is presented too strong, being craftier and more vicious than the face is good, but also being tough enough to survive their finisher in this way isn’t. It then ends on Alexa taking a count out loss to retain the title, fine with this as a heel move but really shouldn’t be done on ppv (that’s not on Alexa though).

Summerslam - This is probably the best match, but I didn’t really like the layout. It starts with Alexa getting the better of Sasha in a strike exchange, she’s hits a really good forearm again here, but I don’t like this. I think, with some exceptions, the heel shouldn’t be looking tougher than the face in a strike exchange. Following this, I think Alexa just takes far too much, basically dominating for a good chunk with no real hope spots thrown in. Again, a lot of the offence is good and vicious looking, but the crafty, opportunistic stuff of the first match is gone and it’s just Alexa being better than Sasha, there’s a couple of cut offs with weak clotheslines which kind of highlights my issue, Alexa shouldn’t be dominating physically like that, it’s stuff like this where I think she misjudges her role sometimes.

As Sasha starts to comeback there’s a nice call back to the last match as the code red is countered into a sort of Alabama slam in the corner, cool spot. Alexa gets back in control pulling out the apron to trip Sasha to the outside, much better cut off and it leads into some nice arm work as Sasha injured her shoulder. Sasha then comes back to get the bank statement, it gets briefly countered using the bad arm, but Alexa gets caught again and Sasha takes the title.

Raw - This one felt the weakest, maybe not helped by the ad break in the middle. It’s worked as a lot more of a back and forth, throwing in some similar spots seen in the other matches. Alexa generally good on offence and there’s a nice superplex. Ending feels a bit out of nowhere, Alexa gets out of the bank statement, hits a ddt and thats it. This did nothing for Sasha, no cheating or anything to mitigate the loss, just the heel being better than her.

So yeah, Alexa generally good on offence, selling is fine, but some of the choices of spots and general layout of matches position her too strongly. In a kayfabe sense I thought Alexa generally looked a lot better than Sasha and that’s probably why I don’t think I’d consider Alexa outright good. Sasha made Alexa look good with her selling, Alexa made herself look good but probably to the detriment of Sasha, given she’s playing crafty heel rather than dominant heel I think that’s an issue.

[tbarrie]

Good analysis. I'm curious what you thought of the layout of Alexa's two earlier PPV matches with Bayley. I recall thinking they did a good job of having Alexa win both without making her look better than Bayley. She won the first because Bayley basically slipped on a banana peel and Alexa pounced, and she won the second solely because Bayley was a better human being than Alexa.

[The Natural]

On 6/25/2021 at 3:34 AM, DreamBroken said:

In 2017-2018, I had Alexa right up there with Charlotte, Sasha, and Asuka. Thought she had great matches with all of them. 

Her 2017 series with Sasha (Great Balls, SummerSlam, and the following RAW) was great stuff, I'd say that was her best in ring work. 

Other matches I liked a lot were 1/1/18 RAW vs. Asuka, Survivors 2017 vs. Charlotte, and HIAC 2018 vs. Ronda. 

The 2017 Banks/Bliss matches are definitely Bliss' best bouts.

I'd add Lynch vs. Bliss vs. Carmella vs. Nikki Bella vs. Natalya vs. Naomi six pack elimination match to crown the first WWE Smackdown Live Women's Champion from Backlash 2016.

[Kev]

21 hours ago, tbarrie said:

Good analysis. I'm curious what you thought of the layout of Alexa's two earlier PPV matches with Bayley. I recall thinking they did a good job of having Alexa win both without making her look better than Bayley. She won the first because Bayley basically slipped on a banana peel and Alexa pounced, and she won the second solely because Bayley was a better human being than Alexa.

Thanks. I watched these this afternoon.

Payback - didn’t have the highlights of the Sasha matches, but solid and probably has less flaws. Bayley gets the early shine, with Alexa picking her spots and taking advantage of minor mistakes to take over. Her offence is solid, although nothing looks as good as against Sasha. She’s talking down to Bayley throughout and coming across like a real piece of shit. Bayley gets the comeback and ends up hitting a really good running knee, followed by the top rope elbow, which Alexa kicks out of (this’ll be my nitpick). Ending comes off a creative spot as Bayley gets kicked off a pin combination and goes head first, under the bottom buckle into the post, which makes a nasty thud. Bayley gets a last ditch small package but is countered into a ddt for the pin. I promised a nitpick and it’s that Alexa got a kick out off a big move combo, whereas Bayley gets pinned off the first really big move. It’s the heel getting a clean win, albeit off a bit of a banana peel moment, but she basically comes out looking tougher than the face as well. If she was losing I’d have no problem with that spot, but it just feels like there’s at least one choice in each match which positions her unnecessarily strong.

Extreme Rules - the match doesn’t do much for me (I mean it’s an ‘on a pole’ match) but is fine for what it is. It’s pretty short and the story is whether Bayley has enough killer instinct to use the kendo stick. There’s a bit back and forth before the stick comes into play. Bayley ends up getting control but takes a bit too long allowing Alexa an opening, she takes control and there’s no hesitation as she lays in some shots. Bayley gets a quick comeback with the belly to belly but fails to cover due to the damage, Alexa gets control again and hits a ddt for a pretty comprehensive victory. I seem to remember a lot of complaints at the time about Bayley looking like an idiot, but it really isn’t that bad, I was expecting some bad ‘I’m conflicted’ acting but it’s just Bayley taking too long, almost playing to the crowd, before she gets the chance to use the kendo stick.

Wiki says that Bayley was meant to face Alexa at Summerslam but was injured. I’m assuming the plan was for her to show a bit more killer instinct and regain the title, which would have been the logical payoff to these two matches. As it stands it’s a pretty unsatisfactory story, as was the Sasha series, and when Alexa finally does get some comeuppance it’s against Nia ffs.

[DreamBroken]

On 6/25/2021 at 11:02 AM, Kev said:

Thanks for the recommendations. I went back and watched the Sasha series (I saw the ppv matches at the time but don’t remember much of them), I’ll try to watch the other stuff when I get a chance. I came out of it probably a bit more positive on Alexa - she’s definitely good at some stuff (mainly on offence) - but the criticisms I have are still there (some of it not aided by the booking). 

Great Balls of Fire - this had the best structure but was hurt by the finish. Sasha got shine early, with Alexa pulling the double jointed fake out to hit a great forearm and take over, really cool spot. From there her offence is good, some vicious looking stuff, including standing on her back and stomping on her head, a hair-pull backbreaker, and even the chokeslam/STO was good here. This is helped by Sasha’s flexibility and contorting her body, making everything look nasty. Alexa uses crafty, opportunistic stuff to cut Sasha off. Sasha comes back as we go into the finishing sequence, Alexa hits a nice code red out of the corner. Sasha gets the bank statement, with Alexa staying in this too long, going over half way across the ring to reach the ropes. This is the sort of little thing where I think Alexa is presented too strong, being craftier and more vicious than the face is good, but also being tough enough to survive their finisher in this way isn’t. It then ends on Alexa taking a count out loss to retain the title, fine with this as a heel move but really shouldn’t be done on ppv (that’s not on Alexa though).

Summerslam - This is probably the best match, but I didn’t really like the layout. It starts with Alexa getting the better of Sasha in a strike exchange, she’s hits a really good forearm again here, but I don’t like this. I think, with some exceptions, the heel shouldn’t be looking tougher than the face in a strike exchange. Following this, I think Alexa just takes far too much, basically dominating for a good chunk with no real hope spots thrown in. Again, a lot of the offence is good and vicious looking, but the crafty, opportunistic stuff of the first match is gone and it’s just Alexa being better than Sasha, there’s a couple of cut offs with weak clotheslines which kind of highlights my issue, Alexa shouldn’t be dominating physically like that, it’s stuff like this where I think she misjudges her role sometimes.

As Sasha starts to comeback there’s a nice call back to the last match as the code red is countered into a sort of Alabama slam in the corner, cool spot. Alexa gets back in control pulling out the apron to trip Sasha to the outside, much better cut off and it leads into some nice arm work as Sasha injured her shoulder. Sasha then comes back to get the bank statement, it gets briefly countered using the bad arm, but Alexa gets caught again and Sasha takes the title.

Raw - This one felt the weakest, maybe not helped by the ad break in the middle. It’s worked as a lot more of a back and forth, throwing in some similar spots seen in the other matches. Alexa generally good on offence and there’s a nice superplex. Ending feels a bit out of nowhere, Alexa gets out of the bank statement, hits a ddt and thats it. This did nothing for Sasha, no cheating or anything to mitigate the loss, just the heel being better than her.

So yeah, Alexa generally good on offence, selling is fine, but some of the choices of spots and general layout of matches position her too strongly. In a kayfabe sense I thought Alexa generally looked a lot better than Sasha and that’s probably why I don’t think I’d consider Alexa outright good. Sasha made Alexa look good with her selling, Alexa made herself look good but probably to the detriment of Sasha, given she’s playing crafty heel rather than dominant heel I think that’s an issue.

Great reviews, enjoyed your take on the matches, glad you were able to check them out!

On 6/26/2021 at 8:40 AM, The Natural said:

The 2017 Banks/Bliss matches are definitely Bliss' best bouts.

I'd add Lynch vs. Bliss vs. Carmella vs. Nikki Bella vs. Natalya vs. Naomi six pack elimination match to crown the first WWE Smackdown Live Women's Champion from Backlash 2016.

Liked that one as well, really liked the 2016 Alexa/Becky feud as Alexa's breakout. The matches weren't yet great (though I dug the tables match a lot), but both were on fire on the mic at the time. I was just thinking of just singles matches initially but there was a 2019 RAW match (Alexa/Natalya/Sasha/Ember) that randomly went 20 minutes and was  a lot of fun.

[tbarrie]

On 6/26/2021 at 4:21 PM, Kev said:

Payback - didn’t have the highlights of the Sasha matches, but solid and probably has less flaws. Bayley gets the early shine, with Alexa picking her spots and taking advantage of minor mistakes to take over. Her offence is solid, although nothing looks as good as against Sasha. She’s talking down to Bayley throughout and coming across like a real piece of shit. Bayley gets the comeback and ends up hitting a really good running knee, followed by the top rope elbow, which Alexa kicks out of (this’ll be my nitpick). Ending comes off a creative spot as Bayley gets kicked off a pin combination and goes head first, under the bottom buckle into the post, which makes a nasty thud. Bayley gets a last ditch small package but is countered into a ddt for the pin. I promised a nitpick and it’s that Alexa got a kick out off a big move combo, whereas Bayley gets pinned off the first really big move. It’s the heel getting a clean win, albeit off a bit of a banana peel moment, but she basically comes out looking tougher than the face as well. If she was losing I’d have no problem with that spot, but it just feels like there’s at least one choice in each match which positions her unnecessarily strong.

I'd agree with that nitpick. I'm pretty sure Bayley had previously won PPV matches with the top-rope elbow; it's not a move Alexa Bliss should be kicking out of. (Well, not at that point.)

On 6/26/2021 at 4:21 PM, Kev said:

Extreme Rules - the match doesn’t do much for me (I mean it’s an ‘on a pole’ match) but is fine for what it is. It’s pretty short and the story is whether Bayley has enough killer instinct to use the kendo stick. There’s a bit back and forth before the stick comes into play. Bayley ends up getting control but takes a bit too long allowing Alexa an opening, she takes control and there’s no hesitation as she lays in some shots. Bayley gets a quick comeback with the belly to belly but fails to cover due to the damage, Alexa gets control again and hits a ddt for a pretty comprehensive victory. I seem to remember a lot of complaints at the time about Bayley looking like an idiot, but it really isn’t that bad, I was expecting some bad ‘I’m conflicted’ acting but it’s just Bayley taking too long, almost playing to the crowd, before she gets the chance to use the kendo stick.

There was indeed a lot of complaining about that finish; I believe I was the only one defending it at the time. IMO, somebody hesitating slightly before brutalizing an unarmed opponent with a weapon doesn't make Bayley look stupid or weak, it makes it look like she's not a fucking psychopath. It's just unfortunate for her that her opponent was a fucking psychopath and took advantage.

Of course, that's defending the ending in a vacuum. In terms of the larger story...

On 6/26/2021 at 4:21 PM, Kev said:

Wiki says that Bayley was meant to face Alexa at Summerslam but was injured. I’m assuming the plan was for her to show a bit more killer instinct and regain the title, which would have been the logical payoff to these two matches. As it stands it’s a pretty unsatisfactory story, as was the Sasha series, and when Alexa finally does get some comeuppance it’s against Nia ffs.

...yes, exactly. You'd expect a subsequent match where Bayley either doesn't hesitate in a similar, or (better IMO) she proves that she can't handle Alexa without resorting to such tactics. Ending the story on that note only makes sense if they were deliberately sacrificing Bayley to get Alexa more over as a heel. And while I like Alexa a lot, Bayley clearly has too much upside for me to defend that decision.

I hadn't heard about an injury cancelling their plans for Bayley to face Alexa again, but I don't think it changes anything. They could easily have done the third match at a later date if necessary.

(Also, for the record, I quite liked Alexa's 'Mania match against Nia and thought it made a satisfying comeuppance for Alexa.)

[Kev]

6 hours ago, tbarrie said:

(Also, for the record, I quite liked Alexa's 'Mania match against Nia and thought it made a satisfying comeuppance for Alexa.)

Nah, I think it was decent as well. Just in hindsight Nia didn’t really get over much as a face, was quickly turned back to heel so they could rush Ronda into the title scene, and then Alexa ended up getting the title back from her anyway, which kind of undone the whole thing.

[NikoBaltimore]

On 6/26/2021 at 4:21 PM, Kev said:

Extreme Rules - the match doesn’t do much for me (I mean it’s an ‘on a pole’ match) but is fine for what it is. It’s pretty short and the story is whether Bayley has enough killer instinct to use the kendo stick. There’s a bit back and forth before the stick comes into play. Bayley ends up getting control but takes a bit too long allowing Alexa an opening, she takes control and there’s no hesitation as she lays in some shots. Bayley gets a quick comeback with the belly to belly but fails to cover due to the damage, Alexa gets control again and hits a ddt for a pretty comprehensive victory. I seem to remember a lot of complaints at the time about Bayley looking like an idiot, but it really isn’t that bad, I was expecting some bad ‘I’m conflicted’ acting but it’s just Bayley taking too long, almost playing to the crowd, before she gets the chance to use the kendo stick.

Just saw this but FWIW it was painful to watch live.  We were big-time on the Bayley train and so were a lot of people around us.  When Bayley hesitated while I get what they were trying to do the result absolutely deflated everybody around me.  It did a ton of damage to her momentum and ultimately it was either try and force it or turn heel.  The heel turn surprisingly ended up working wonderfully but a big what if for me is what if Bayley brought the fire.  I would like to think she could have gotten a good bit more time riding the momentum that she had.  But while I don't necessarily fault Alexa's push for it the match will always be one of those "Damn, what the fuck?" moments that I don't think highly of.