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AEW Navel-Gazing Thread Number Two


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14 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Well, I was right about Tony and Cody Rhodes. Cody returning to WWE at WrestleMania broke Tony, and he already can't handle it. He's lost his shit on social media again.

I have a feeling if Twitter was around during the Monday Night Wars, this is much like what Eric Bischoff would be doing because this feels like a dopey Eric Bischoff reactionary move move.

Tony Khan's fragile ego has been shattered by Cody leaving.

In a week that saw two of AEW's best TV matches in company history. You can choose violence over your inane posts and theories, I'll choose TK's violence of putting out the best pro wrestling in North American history and calling out bullshit and trolls on social media.

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  • 2 months later...

OK, this is going to be a pretty ambitious post.

It is entirely inspired by @JLowe promising to be "less of a dick" about Marina Shafir and @just drew responding that he is going to try and do the same and asking to be held accountable for it.

Actual quotes: "I'm going to stop being such a dick about things, including Shafir. Life's too short and the world is already fucked enough" - JLowe

"Keep me accountable. I’m gonna try that too." - just drew

 By coincidence, I have been re-reading The Willpower Instinct, a really excellent self-help book by Kelly McGonigal Ph.D. 

I was really surprised, on the re-read, to see that Dr. McGonigal lists complaining among the bad habits that people want to control (among other things like eating too many cookies, putting off what needs to be done, or cheating on their spouse).

But, yeah, of course. 

She explains, backed by psychology, neuroscience, and practical experience, some methods of changing those behaviours that genuinely work.

it's an oversimplification, but basically she identifies three kinds of willpower: The "won't" power, which enables you to stop doing things you don't want to (or shouldn't) do, the "will" power which enables you to do the useful things you tend to put off or avoid, and the "want" power which reminds you what your long-term goal is so you can keep moving toward it. focus on the "want" helps us control the "will" and "won't" stuff.

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Since October, I have lost 20 kilos. I was pre-diabetic, had gout, and had lots of minor health issues, aches, and pains. 

That's a lie. I had full blown type 2 diabetes. The kind that's caused by eating and drinking too much and not exercising enough. I was too shocked and ashamed to admit it.

There were more than a few books and videos and people, including @Shartnado, who inspired, encouraged, and influenced me.

Dr. McGonigal's book provided the key.

My "want" was to have my doctor tell me I didn't need to take diabetes medication any more. Also, I wanted to feel better, move better, and look better.

My "won't" list included buying chips and ice cream, ordering pizza and burgers for delivery, drinking sugary drinks, and so on.

My "wills" included moving more (going for long walks), getting to the gym regularly, eating lots of vegetables and fruit, getting 150+ grams of protein and 25+ grams of fibre (from food) every day, and so on. And to count my calories. Every day.

And I f'n did it. Doc told me on Monday I can stop taking the pills now and we'll see how my blood work holds up.

It's a gross oversimplification, but the key is breathing. 

The prefrontal cortex enables us to control our behaviour and breath focus meditation strengthens our prefrontal cortex. 

There are endless videos on YouTube etc that teach basic breath focus meditation. Basically just breathe and focus on the breath and if your mind wanders just bring it back. 

It's the wandering and coming back into focus that is the process. Not the breathing.

Personally, I have been using the Wim Hoff method for my breath work, because I enjoy it. Followed this video daily for a couple of weeks until I got it down. Now I can do it anywhere anytime.

A practice like this really does strengthen your self-control. It's f'n amazing how well it works.

Also, taking a few deep breaths and remembering our larger goal can be extremely useful when we feel tempted to do something we are trying not to do, whether that is eat a bag of Doritos or make a joke about Adam Cole's biceps.

Not to put to fine a point on it, but my "want" is to enjoy watching and discussing wrestling (and listening to music and playing games) in my somewhat limited free time, so my "will" is to watch, discuss (play, listen to) the stuff I really enjoy (and there is a lot of it) and my "won't" is to waste too much energy bitching about all the other crap out there even though it's fun to complain sometimes. That's a legit thing I did, to help me stop being such a grouchy 'grandpa' about everything.

That. And, just breathe.

Obviously, there is way more to it. The whole book is easy to read and very well worth it. 

Here's a good summary:

https://www.naveedjan.com/notes/the-willpower-instinct

The Power of Habit  and Atomic Habits are also well worth reading. Adding more positive habits and removing some negative habits is probably the easiest and most efficient way to change your life for the better.

 

An interesting bit from Atomic Habits is that if you improve something by 1% a day, in a year you'll be 37 times better at it. 

 

 

Edited by Gordlow
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5 hours ago, JLowe said:

Thanks Gordlow, I will try some of those things but I also know that I need some professional help to treat my depression.

Yeah. It's relatively easy for me to be positive. I am blessed with a great family as far as my wife and kids, some amazing, supportive, understanding friends, and a job I enjoy.

I am extremely on the introverted end of the introverted/extroverted continuum in that I really need a lot of alone time to recover my energy, but as far as I know I am in good place mental-health wise. 

I can't imagine how much more difficult any attempt at self-improvement might be if I didn't have all of those things going for me.

I can only wish you the very best of luck,and that you find the help you need and more.

Edited by Gordlow
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what I got out of this post is that if I’m less snarky about wrestling I too can have a sexy body like @Gordlow!

much love to @just drewand @JLowe. They get hugs from me for attempting the world of positive wrestle posting. I wish you strength on your journey. There will be tough days but you both have the perseverance to make it through and become a @DEAN.

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@Gordlow, LOVE all that, man.

I do enjoy the love-fest around here. It's just so much more fun to come off of a show that you enjoyed and hop on here and see other people enjoying it, too.

That said, I don't think any of you have crossed the line of having a blind hatred of things.  Hell, even @just drewpraised the Bucks in that ladder match a couple weeks ago.

I think (generally), when people around here criticize AEW, it's valid.  I may not agree with it, but it's not outlandish.  I do tire of the constant "I don't know who that is!!!" stuff.  I, for one, appreciate that AEW seems to assume that their fans are knowledgeable, but I digress.

Anyhoo, I guess what I'm saying is that people here should, rightfully, like what they like with no qualms about how it will be received.  But, on the other side of that coin, people should be comfortable with not liking something too.  I just think that relentless positivity can be bad in it's own way.  Please let me be clear: I am NOT saying anyone here is being like that.  I just want people to feel comfortable being cranky every once in a while, too!

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this post is not wrestling related at all, but is inspired by @Gordlow's post and those that followed it. feel free to skip if that's not what you're here for.

Gordlow, congrats on the positive changes you've been making in your life. Proud of you, buddy. I have also been trying to lead a healthier lifestyle. Been more active at work and playing through Ring Fit Adventure on the Nintendo Switch. Drinking less beer and a lot less soda. Switched out a daily Mountain Dew for a Gatorade or Powerade Zero. Eating less AND healthier. More carrots, fewer gummy worms. Down ~25 lbs since November and feeling much better. Still a long ways to go. It's a process. 

i think about 'frequency illusion' (that's the "if you think about red cars, you'll see red cars everywhere" deal) pretty regularly, and how that can impact your thought processes. This follows that if you think about/visualize success, or happiness, or whatever, then it will come to you. Now yes, this is just a trick of the mind. But by forcing yourself to focus on the positive, then the positives will outweigh the negatives. It doesn't work all the time. But can it bring the needle back from the edge sometimes? For me the answer is yes. 

I've also made a serious concerted effort to let things go. best example: I'm a huge fan of cartoons (perhaps you remember my thread from a couple summers ago?) Of course, the last decade plus has seen us inundated with live action movie remakes of many of my favorite cartoons. i am decidedly NOT a fan of these remakes. But when the TMNT movie came out in 2014, this reignited the fervor around this type of project. I realized that, if times were switched, and my 80s cartoon was released right now, but the 2014 movie came out when i was a kid, i would have loved it and likely hated the cartoon. The movie's not made for me. and that's OK. It's made for kids. and that's even better. today's kids will love the same things that i loved as a kid. Maybe not the EXACT same thing, but a Ninja Turtle loving kid is always a plus.

We have a good little community here. If @JLowe or anybody else ever needs to talk/text/chat, i'm always here. Just a PM or email away.

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@twiztor, check out the health and wellness thread in Land of Confusion. Keep us up on your progress. Sometimes it's helpful to share as a sort of way to keep yourself accountable (says the guy who hasn't posted there in ages).

Also, re: your cartoon analogy, that's why I really appreciate someone like @Matt D's criticism. He's very aware (or at least seems to me to be) of his personal likes/dislikes vs. what is popular now with most fans, etc. He's able to say what he doesn't like about something without shitting on someone who might like it. There are plenty of others who do the same here.

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11 hours ago, Log said:

But, on the other side of that coin, people should be comfortable with not liking something too.  

 

6 hours ago, twiztor said:

i think about 'frequency illusion' (that's the "if you think about red cars, you'll see red cars everywhere" deal) pretty regularly, and how that can impact your thought processes. This follows that if you think about/visualize success, or happiness, or whatever, then it will come to you. Now yes, this is just a trick of the mind. But by forcing yourself to focus on the positive, then the positives will outweigh the negatives. It doesn't work all the time. But can it bring the needle back from the edge sometimes? For me the answer is yes. 

 

Yep! It's a kind of delicate balance, when speaking about positivity and joy to not come across like it's shitting all over people being critical. [And it's complicated further by the fact that, more often than not - and kind of ironically - people who love criticising pro wrestlers (or film directors or bassoon soloists or whatever) tend in general to be extremely tetchy whenever they perceive that their themselves are on the receiving end]

And complaining is, sometimes, a lot of fun. I can, and will, enjoy laughing about grumpy JR or making schadenfreude jokes about Vince or whatever. I complained about critics in this post, in the previous paragraph, in parentheses. It was fun.

I am however very much of the opinion that enjoying a thing is generally way more fun and also a better use of time and energy than shitting on a thing. That's been a broad general theme of both Navel Gazing threads. And it's delightful to me that people are willing to discuss it at all. It's obviously not everybody's cup of tea, but I am glad the mods let me keep this thread open.

It's my cup of tea. And thinking about it w/r/t pro wrestling bleeds over in useful ways into the rest of my life. It's generally better to enjoy the time I can spend with my family rather than fighting about minor stuff all the time, for example. My time and energy is better spent with people who make me feel good rather than with people who make me feel bad. And so on.

Sometimes you have to fight, or whatever. I just don't think it's healthy to make that the focus. To make "stuff to fight about" your red car, if you will.

Here's today's navel-gazing thought:

What I think it comes down to is this: Do we love pro wrestling? Or do we love feeling like our opinions about pro wrest are the correct opinions?

It's a continuum, with two axes. (Maybe that's a matrix?) My argument would be that, the further along that continuum we are in the direction of @DEAN where we look for and enjoy what's good about all kinds of wrestlers and wrestling without ever uncritically swallowing crap and calling it ice cream, the better off we are.

Another continuum worth pondering:

Are we interested in discovering new things, or do we just want to be applauded for what we already know? (If you think.you know everything about any given subject, odds are that you in fact know very little. The more you know, the more you know you don't know, as they say. 

It's why I love Secret Santo. Exapanding your horizons is good.

This is also where I really admire @Matt D and the rest of the Segunda Caida crew. They watch everything they can find. I hugely enjoy reading their journeys of discovery, uncovering and discussing new footage. Dudes who have seen so much pro wrestling that they truly understand it's impossible to see and know it all.

I don't even have the time and energy to read about everything they watch. It's unreal.

This is maybe the most obvious area where a lesson learned from pro wrestling fandom bled over into the rest of my life. Getting into tape trading and learning about and enjoying different styles of wrestling was probably the biggest key in terms of opening my mind to the whole wide world of possibilities out there. 

It's doubtful that I'd be enjoying my current life, living across the ocean from where I was born, enjoying foods I never even heard of growing up, listening to music I never could have imagined, visiting places tourists don't generally hear about, if pro wrestling hadn't provided me that mind-opening key. 

Maybe I could have stayed my whole life in Vancouver, listening to the radio and eating cheeseburgers, and still been completely content. Cheeseburgers are good. (Also, Cheeseburger is fun).

Or, maybe if I stayed in one place  I'd literally be a cranky old grandpa now, complaining about how much better things were back in my day.

 

tl/dr:  generally I have been thinking a lot about how being positive about pro wrestling helps me understand how to be positive about life in general, and how being curious and enthusiastic about pro wrestling also carries over in my life in a big way.

 

Edited by Gordlow
Added a tl/dr
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11 hours ago, Gordlow said:

tl/dr:  generally I have been thinking a lot about how being positive about pro wrestling helps me understand how to be positive about life in general, and how being curious and enthusiastic about pro wrestling also carries over in my life in a big way.

I think I'm experiencing the same thing in reverse. As I post about (a lot, sorry), I have been watching wrestling with my son lately. He's become super into it. He's so enthusiastic, it really rubs off on me. It's hard to pick apart a show when a cute little guy is next to you having so much fun with it. Not that I don't watch critically, I can't turn that off when I watch anything. It's just that his enjoyment colors my opinion of things.

I think I've had three periods in my life where watching current pro wrestling was just really fun for me. The first was probably '86-'90 or so. That was when I first "discovered" it and fell in love with it. The second would have been '96-'98. I was in college, and there was a big group of us who loved watching every week. It was probably the most social that my pro wrestling fandom has been.

And the third period is the last couple years. I watched current wrestling in between these periods, but didn't have the "need" to see it live every week. I used to dvr WWE shows and I'd maybe get to them or maybe cherry-pick the pimped matches from each week, but I didn't feel like I needed to see it live. Now, my whole Wednesday evening is based around finishing dinner and getting the kids settled so I can be in front of my tv at 8pm. It's a blast.

11 hours ago, Gordlow said:

What I think it comes down to is this: Do we love pro wrestling? Or do we love feeling like our opinions about pro wrest are the correct opinions?

Oh, there was definitely a time where it was the latter for me. Now, I'm more of a "live and let live" wrestling fan. I like what I like and I dislike what I dislike and if you feel differently, that's fine.

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13 hours ago, Gordlow said:

tl/dr:  generally I have been thinking a lot about how being positive about pro wrestling helps me understand how to be positive about life in general, and how being curious and enthusiastic about pro wrestling also carries over in my life in a big way.

re: the bolded, @OSJ once mentioned that by simply asking someone "can you tell me more about that?" it opens up tons of doors and opportunities.

1) people love talking about what they're passionate about. They'll be enthused to tell you a little bit more than their standard spiel. maybe it will make their day!
2) you'll hopefully learn something interesting. if absolutely nothing else, you'll broaden your horizons just a little bit.

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Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie
3 hours ago, Log said:

Oh, there was definitely a time where it was the latter for me. Now, I'm more of a "live and let live" wrestling fan. I like what I like and I dislike what I dislike and if you feel differently, that's fine.

There's really a lot of value to that, especially if what one enjoys skews niche.

And I will say, there's a major difference in how people respond when you disagree with them when it comes down to a matter of subjective view. Like... if I didn't enjoy a match or if I don't enjoy a specific wrestler's work, that's just how I feel and it's okay if you don't agree with me. (This is a general "you", by the way.) Telling me I'm wrong, or that my opinion is bad, or outright insulting me isn't really going to suddenly make me go "oh dang, you're right" and start agreeing with you.

There are some folks that are outright astounded that you don't agree with their opinions and react with hostility to them, and it's like... we have a difference of opinion, chill out.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 5 weeks later...

My current navel gazing minor obsession is about one very specific thing I enjoy about AEW-style professional wrestling. 

It is about the idea that, even in the world (Universe?) of pro wrestling, friendship can be for real.

I was already 20 years old, and attending University, when Paul Orndorff shockingly turned on Hulk Hogan, later to re-unite with Bobby Heenan and draw a huge crowd vs Hogan at "The Big Event" in Toronto. I was also shocked when Andre turned on Hogan, ripping the cross from his neck. And they went on to make history and draw a massive crowd etc etc.

Hey! Remember the Barbershop Window Incident! That was shocking. And awesome. Don't think they made a ton of money off of Michaels vs Janetty per se, but heel Shawn worked out pretty well for the WWF, in my opinion.

 

But eventually it just became this ultra-predictable trope. ZOMG! That one wrestler betrayed that other wrestler even though they were friends! It got to the point where you'd be, like, "Isn't it about time that (slightly better, larger, or more over member of the tag team) turns on (slightly less gifted, tall, and/or popular member)? 

It stopped being shocking and stopped being a way to draw a huge crowd a long time ago. It became just the standard way to move a story forward, turn someone, and/or set up some new matches.

And here's where AEW can have some fun subverting the trope. 

Like, how Swerve and Lee are still together, and wearing championship belts. Like how Hungee and Hangm'n joked around about screwing each other over. Legit funny and legit heartwarming, in my opinion.

And today. Battle of the Belts. I wasn't worried about Storm turning on Rosa. I knew she'd have her friend's back. And she totally did.

Maybe it became such a predictable trope in the WWE Universe because the WWF made so much money from that kind of stuff back when I was in my early 20s and Vince was always hoping it would happen again. And also Vince has some kind of crazed notion about a strong man standing alone being the most heroic thing.

I also pretty strongly suspect that at least part of the issue is that McMahon has spent literally years literally surrounded by lickspittles and yes men and has literally zero idea how actual friendship even works any more. It's likely been decades since the poor dude has experienced what it is like to have someone be nice to him without wanting something from him. Since he spent time with someone just because he enjoyed it, and wasn't surrounded by psychopathically ambitious  people kissing his ass and telling him what he wants to hear.

Could be completely wrong about that. Never met the guy. Can't necessarily believe everything you read about him. 

On the other hand, I find it easy to believe that Tony Khan, Matt and Nick, Kenny, Jericho, Bryan... Deeb, Bates, Rebel, Vickie, Regal, Luther, Shawn Dean... and etc etc involved in running AEW actually have lots of real-life friends and understand deeply how genuine friendship actually works. I've met some of them, seen how they interact with the people around them, read their books, listened to their interviews...

I don't actually know any of them deeply, but I don't think it's crazy for me to think that they don't 100% buy into the "a strong man standing on his own is the most heroic" point of view. They probably watched,understood, and enjoyed Guardians of the Galaxy, for example. Maybe shed an empathetic tear at "We are Groot." 

 I think that movie would have baffled Vincent K. McMahon.

Distasteful speculation aside, a thing I love about AEW is that the good guys (and ladies) are allowed to have friends there, and the friendship is allowed to be real.

As a guy who is lucky enough to have a lot of friends who I trust and enjoy spending time with, whose backs I have, from whom I want nothing more than enjoyable companionship or conversation - though I often get much more - I am delighted that there is a pro wrestling company that reflects those values (in fact, more than one, but Japanese factions are a whole other topic). 

I also love having friends I can enjoy that shit with!

 

Edited by Gordlow
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Hottest acts in WWE in recent memory? three guys who are relief friends and bring that on screen  (also their two biggest female stars two real life) friends. But Vince is / was stuck in his ways. He made money with an idea a few times then ran it onto the ground (see also next hulk hogan, evil boss trope, Dusty and the Dusty finish, WCW and the nwo, Vince Russo and endless swerves and shoots).

Also Swerve/Lee split that wasn't was some fun sleigh of hand where we were expecting it to happen with them and it happened with starks and Hobbs

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Small detail, but I'd really appreciate it if sudden run-ins did not call for music to be cued up. Great example (of many) this past week on Dynamite with Moxley making the save for Yuta. So, did Moxley call the production department ahead of time and tell them he was going to save Yuta if there was any shenanigans from the JAS? Or did he send a quick txt, 'hey, I'm on the otherside of the building getting ready to run out, would you mind cueing up my music'? Had they not cued up the music, you'd get that build of excitement frrom the crowd, what's this, oh shit it's Moxley, cleans house, and then you fire up 'Wild Thing' as you go off air.

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7 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Small detail, but I'd really appreciate it if sudden run-ins did not call for music to be cued up. Great example (of many) this past week on Dynamite with Moxley making the save for Yuta. So, did Moxley call the production department ahead of time and tell them he was going to save Yuta if there was any shenanigans from the JAS? Or did he send a quick txt, 'hey, I'm on the otherside of the building getting ready to run out, would you mind cueing up my music'? Had they not cued up the music, you'd get that build of excitement frrom the crowd, what's this, oh shit it's Moxley, cleans house, and then you fire up 'Wild Thing' as you go off air.

The only time I like this is when the heel stops to look at the ramp and then the face attacks from behind.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I think this belongs in this thread? Please refrain from pelting me with vegetables that are starting to look a little funky.

Quote

“I’m actually pretty excited about it. I think our roster is going to be stronger than it’s been in a long time. There is a lot of competition for spots. As long as everybody is being professional, it’s professional wrestling, the first word is professional. The second word is wrestling. This is not a doll factory or a normal place of business. Our product here is professional wrestling matches. People not liking each other, not getting along, can actually be positive, as opposed to most workplaces where people not getting along is detrimental. Not everybody needs to get along in the pro wrestling business, they don’t all need to be friends to do this. I’ll be honest, a lot of pro wrestlers don’t like each other, that’s fine with me. I don’t think people watch wrestling to watch people be friends,”

- Tony Khan

https://wrestlepurists.com/tony-khan-people-not-liking-each-other-not-getting-along-can-actually-be-positive/

He's the data guy. So if he's saying friendship doesn't sell, he probably has something to back that up. Release the minute-by-minute ratings for friendship, Tony! 

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Well. Shoot. Looks like I've been wrong about AEW all along. I am legitimately a wee bit saddened. People being friends is legit a thing I watch AEW for. A major thing.

I guess, now, it's only a matter of time before "strong men stand alone" stories start to define the main event narrative.

It will kill me a little when John Silver turns on Hangman. 

Edited by Gordlow
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