Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

Recommended Posts

I guess my hot take is that there’s no real compelling evidence that AJPW’s 90s style was any harder on wrestlers than any other wrestling style.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

You wanna count corpses? Line them up by federation. See how 1990s AJPW fairs against, say, 1990s WWF or WCW.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

History will look back upon the decision to make active-talent who have never drawn a dime on US television EVPs of a multi, multi million $ investment with creative-control of the product a decision as commercially ludicrous as anything late-era WCW came up with.

Edited by A_K
  • Like 1
  • Thanks 2
  • Haha 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/9/2021 at 11:27 AM, Technico Support said:

I was about to make the same point.  I think 90s AJPW did far worse for wrestling than Shawn Michaels.  Changing the focus to "let's have a great match" is in no universe worse than "the best way to make this fake sport look good is to essentially do some of it for real even after one of the main guys pushing for this approach dies of an internal decapitation."  

"Stable" is too Southern Rasslin!

Am I remembering incorrectly or did WWE actually combine "faction" and "regime" into "FAC-GIME" one time?

They definitely did. It sounded really close to a bad "f" word so I remember it got dropped quickly. IIRC, Edge and Christian were referring to the McMahon/Helmsley Regime as the "Facgime" jokingly as they couldn't figure out if they were a faction or a regime. But the way everyone said it really sounded like if you took the f word slur for gay people and combined it with regime.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Styles matter somewhat in long term health but I think the worst thing for wrestling is no off season. 365 days a year, no health care, time off for injuries is a luxury and at the risk of losing momentum/your spot, and a toxic backstage environment in most companies that promoted excessive drug use/abuse.

It is still bad today, with the knowledge of hindsight. I think most companies would benefit from rotating guys in and out. I rag on AEW as much as anyone else but at least six man tags every week won't grind guys into dust.

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Control said:

You wanna count corpses? Line them up by federation. See how 1990s AJPW fairs against, say, 1990s WWF or WCW.

Steroids and Coke (and depression) killed those WWF/ WCW guys though, not bumping. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I respect and love the shit outta those guys from the cokeheads to the steroid freaks. 

Now regarding this issue, my opinion isn’t quite as nice and sweet as the above statement. As a matter of fact, it’s basically socially unacceptable. The result is an epidemic of lies and denial. The truth just hurts to much and that’s how we handle it but here goes now that the disclaimer is up.

Even wrestlers who admit the stuff about steroids have a “yeah but” attached to it. Dynamite Kid was like yeah I abused steroids but see the style I worked etc etc etc. Luger still tells that story about hurting his neck on the uncomfortable plain. Vickie still says Eddie died from his tough workout regime. I want to say somebody else close to him tried to say he choked on the toothbrush for a long time but I couldn’t find that just now to verify it. I swear I used to read that though. Speaking of Eddie’s, Van Halen was saying that he smoked but thinks he got cancer from keeping his spare pic in his mouth. And on and on down through society. I’m so sick of drugs. They get more free passes than Hulk Hogan and a main reason is because of our excuses. 

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, AxB said:

Steroids and Coke (and depression) killed those WWF/ WCW guys though, not bumping. It's not an apples to apples comparison.

It's not, but the point is you have to consider every aspect of the working environment, not just the in-ring style. All Japan's big main events were brutal, but those matches were incredibly infrequent. Misawa and Kawada weren't expected to work an 80% effort singles match 4-5 nights a week on the house show circuit. Mostly, you were doing pretty tame six-man tags, without as extensive/grueling travel--and that travel, hotels, food, etc., was nearly all covered by the company or sponsors--and with real breaks in between tours. Which is not to say the stiffness and head-drops were somehow healthy, or that the style didn't venture into excess, or that steroids and alcohol were never problems. The real problem, though, was thinking you could work something approaching that main event style nearly every night of an American schedule. (Or to flip it around: the problem was when fans started expecting that.)

Edited by Beech27
  • Like 5
Link to post
Share on other sites

The '90s really were the decade that destroyed wrestling, and I'm a '90s kid whose favorite wrestling years are from that era. But the '90s were all about excess - I think ECW is ultimately as responsible as All Japan or anything else for dangerous wrestling and destroying the art of the brawl -  its approach to garbage wrestling and its influence on the Attitude Era are truly awful things - and that excess led to a decimated U.S. wrestling landscape for literally the new millennium. 

Smart fans influencing the in-ring work, normalizing dangerous matches that should be done rarely (hi there, ladder matches!), and the ultimate consolidation of the business in the United States...man, the '90s set us up for 2021. 

My ultimate warrior hot take: People who say wrestling was better when they were kids and who were kids before about 1999 are right, fuck all that "get with the times" or "you look back on your youth with a less critical eye" bullshit. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

My hot take is AEW and WWE both seem uneasy in their own skin and seem unconvinced with what they are offering.

WWE seem like they want their product and stars to be what it used to be and therefore underplay their own product constantly.

AEW seem to second guess what they want on an almost weekly basis, that leads to a directionless show.

  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/9/2021 at 1:44 PM, odessasteps said:

In theory, faces shouldn't need to form a stable, because they are faces and would just help each other because they are the good guys. 

Corney has made this point on his podcast numerous times and it make so much sense that it really bugs me. When a good guy is getting beat down why don't the other good guys come to help?

  • Like 3
Link to post
Share on other sites
49 minutes ago, zendragon said:

Corney has made this point on his podcast numerous times and it make so much sense that it really bugs me. When a good guy is getting beat down why don't the other good guys come to help?

Because WWE is the progenitor of all modern wrestling tropes in the United States, and in WWE, a good guy stands on his own two feet or gets his ass whipped. 

Strength comes from standing alone against the hordes who look to destroy you, not from relying on other people for their grace or help. 

It's been said before by people far smarter and more eloquent than me, but look at how the WWE historically books its good guy aces, and you see essentially VKM's very worldview. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
  • Like 7
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/8/2021 at 12:46 PM, Goodear said:

Hulk Hogan is a far better wrestler than Kenny Omega. He has undeniably better punches, storytelling, facials, bumps, promos, and look. Kenny does more stuff and has longer matches. 

 

while "better" can be a matter of opinion, I think Hogan was clearly the smarter worker Kenny always seems to think more is more while Hogan got more out of less and was better at reading an audience and giving them what they wanted (most of the time)

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

While we're sorta on the subject: However good they are, punches should mostly be saved for heel cheating/face retribution high spots, or concession stand brawl type matches. That is, wrestling is better with an acknowledged closed-fist rule, and the exceptions should mean something. 

Edited by Beech27
  • Like 5
  • Thanks 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I realize his current position is much better for him financially, but I selfishly wish Bobby Roode were splitting his time between the NWA and Impact right now. I don't think he's a lot of people's #1 guy they wish weren't locked up in the WWE, but he's my #1. 

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 4/11/2021 at 6:01 PM, BloodyChamp said:

I want to say somebody else close to him tried to say he choked on the toothbrush for a long time but I couldn’t find that just now to verify it. I swear I used to read that though. 

You did.  I've heard that story a couple times over the years.  Not sure who said it originally though.

Link to post
Share on other sites

A quick Google shows that reports said Chavo found him with his toothbrush in his hand, leading ro speculation he died while brushing his teeth. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

My .02 is that doomsayers need to find a new hobby and quit hate watching anything they don't enjoy

Like how long were there LOLTNA takes about the company dropping dead, or ROH not making it through the end of the calendar year. Watching and expecting things to change and improve i understand. I can understand hope, but I'm not talking about hopeful fans who may have a bone to pick with the product. 

like the way TNA and ROH each managed to outlive both ECW and WCW for example despite the constant braying about how the shows could be canceled because they were such shit, or dropped any week now by the station or network. like just how can someone decide "yeah the writing or the action isn't for me, but lemme tune in anyway, and I'll be back next week and the month after too!", for me it doesn't make sense. Popping into threads to shit on a product week after week, like who wakes up and decides Thats it right there, that's the good shit pal!

Which reminds me, im curious if mlw ever gets the doom and gloom forecasts or if you have to be considered a #2 promotion to attract the doom and gloom?

Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Hayabusa said:

Which reminds me, im curious if mlw ever gets the doom and gloom forecasts or if you have to be considered a #2 promotion to attract the doom and gloom?

This is really simple to understand. A product that attracts greater viewership will at the same time attract viewership with a greater diversity of opinion. Nobody is going to "doom and gloom" MLW because hardly anyone watches it. Wanna know why the Impact threads are so civil and filled with people who largely enjoy the show? Because like three people feel compelled to express a view on it weekly. More viewers = greater diversity of opinion. 

Anyway, my .02 is complaining about complaining is the message board equivalent of sniffing your own farts. 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

TNA isn’t worth the dust off of a WCW master VHS tape, or the white crust off an ECW master tape. I haven’t collected a sample of the white crust myself for any tests before anybody asks but I don’t think it’s necessary. Idk...

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

Anyway, my .02 is complaining about complaining is the message board equivalent of sniffing your own farts. 

I really wouldn't disagree, like complaining on a message board about people on message boards complaining about complaining has to be the top of the mountain there, the pinnacle if you will

 

Thats the equivalent of sniffing your own farts then get getting on a message board to talk about sniffing your own farts

Am I doing this right?

  • Haha 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...