MARCH 2021 Discussion of Wrestling.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

This sounds exactly like, "I can't believe black people can control the N word and get to say it too!". Goddamn buddy, I hate when marginalized groups get to have a little power too!

This is some bullshit. How do you extrapolate that? Yo can we get a moderator for when the moderator steps out of bounds? I never said anything remotely close to anything that could be rationalized as that.

Yeah man this is where I tap out.

[Elsalvajeloco]

5 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is some bullshit. How do you extrapolate that?

Your own words. Crazy, right?

Quote

Yeah man this is where I tap out.

....Based on your performance, you should have tapped out a LONG time ago. Now your arm is on backwards. 

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

The reason I chimed in is because I felt I could provide perspective from how a lot of this content resonated with me, regarding WWE's incredibly poor record when it comes to LGBTQ presentation (and especially with trans matters).

I no longer watch, because their content has hurt me enough. Does that mean they should get a free pass to continue hurting others like me? Should that hurt continue on because of "historical context"?

Can I ask why people feel the need to vehemently defend the "historical context" of trash?

Frankly, I don't care what they do with said trash. Cut it out, wrap it with contextualization bumpers, air it as is, I don't care because I won't watch it. But I do think deep down, folks need to ask why they feel it matters to hold onto these things that they admit are at best blatantly offensive, and at worst harmful, degrading, and dehumanizing.

There's other ways to learn how to be an asshole than watching 30 year old pro wrestling.

Edited March 26, 2021 by Stefanie the Human

[Ziggy]

On 3/24/2021 at 6:20 PM, DreamBroken said:

Sid and Luger remain my top 2 most wanted for the HOF. Mick Foley just wrote a blog about how Lex deserves to be in. Rewatched those two recent Sid shoots not long ago, both great. 

The first Wrestling show I watched was WrestleMania 8. My older brother had in on tape from my neighbor, I'd watched parts of the show several times before I even became a fan. Sid he was one of those guys who was just unexplainably over. When I actually became a fan at 8 years old he came back to WWF as a babyface and got over probably better than Shawn. Me and my brothers could probably recite his promos from WrestleMania 8. And a few years later we went to my next door neighbors house a watched our first ECW show Living Dangerously because he was on the commercial. It's sorta funny how people like Luger and Sid who at one point both from an aesthetic point of view fit what Vince could ever dream in a Wrestler are looked at as just muscle heads that couldn't get over. I always enjoyed Sids promos, I don't really remember him botching promos outside of the ones that have become memes. He always seemed to make sense even if he fumbled a word or two. Luger, I think most of us can agree that he was a better wrestler than people give him credit for especially in different points in his career. 

[Happ Hazzard]

Because there's no way of knowing what people will consider to be "trash" in the future and once the precedent has been set, people will use it to justify all kinds of things. 

It happened, removing it from Peacock doesn't mean  it didn't happen. 

I have a real problem with the removal of the  Piper/Bad News match from WM6. Say Bad News' grandchildren want to watch their grandfathers highest profile match, in front of (I think) the biggest crowd he ever worked in front of, in his home country. Only now they can't because of people 31 years in the future taking offense to something his opponent did. It's ridiculous and serves no purpose at all. This NBC deal is a real poison chalice for the WWE, yes they're making a crazy amount of money but it's going to deal with standards and practices more stringent than anything at Turner in the 90s. It's going to become the most bland, anodyne wrestling product of all time. How on earth do you have heels if no-one is allowed to anything that might be offensive to someone, somewhere in the world?

[Unnatural]

Best hot tag? Three way tie between John Silver/Cesaro/Violent J*

It may not happen but I'd love Cesare and Silver on opposite sides of a tag just to see them try and out do each other on the hot tag sequence hahaha. Stick them in stables and send them into a mini feud where they always upgrade the hot tag sequence over time until it gives the "killing the business" grogs something to cry about lmao

 

 

*J being the best hot tag in the game was a long running joke among my cousins and me when we'd watch the JCW tapes hahaha. Someone would hit the tag and he'd do the hip toss/hip toss/leg drop and we'd all yell DANGEROUS!!!!! (like that early RoH announcer, Sapolsky maybe?) and laugh our fucking dumb asses off

[Burgundy LaRue]

10 minutes ago, Happ Hazzard said:

Because there's no way of knowing what people will consider to be "trash" in the future and once the precedent has been set, people will use it to justify all kinds of things. 

It happened, removing it from Peacock doesn't mean  it didn't happen. 

I have a real problem with the removal of the  Piper/Bad News match from WM6. Say Bad News' grandchildren want to watch their grandfathers highest profile match, in front of (I think) the biggest crowd he ever worked in front of, in his home country. Only now they can't because of people 31 years in the future taking offense to something his opponent did. It's ridiculous and serves no purpose at all. This NBC deal is a real poison chalice for the WWE, yes they're making a crazy amount of money but it's going to deal with standards and practices more stringent than anything at Turner in the 90s. It's going to become the most bland, anodyne wrestling product of all time. How on earth do you have heels if no-one is allowed to anything that might be offensive to someone, somewhere in the world?

This, in a nutshell, is why trying to have a reasonable discussion on these topics is a waste of time.

[Elsalvajeloco]

40 minutes ago, Happ Hazzard said:

Only now they can't because of people 31 years in the future taking offense to something his opponent did. 

Let me put you up on game my friend...black people don't look forward to racism. Second, you can't speak for his grandchildren and their concerns. You don't even know if he had grandchildren. Hell, if he had children that HAD children, they wouldn't want anything to do with the wrestling business. Matter of fact, if that's the best thing he was associated with his career (and it wasn't THANK GOD), that would be a sad note for his family to see.

I am not even going to touch how silly it is that people cannot track down anything beyond one source in 2021. Bad News Brown died how many years ago? I'm pretty sure they saw it already and in no hurry to see it again if they do exist.

Quote

How on earth do you have heels if no-one is allowed to anything that might be offensive to someone, somewhere in the world?

That's not a question you wanna be asking my friend. No one is asking heels to not be heels. We're asking folks to not be irredeemable pieces of shit in the process. And Piper wasn't even a heel. He was the babyface in that feud. So apparently, you need to be tracking down Piper vs. Bad News and not BNB's imaginary grandkids you have sympathy for cause they cannot have a traumatic racial experience. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

8 minutes ago, Burgundy LaRue said:

This, in a nutshell, is why trying to have a reasonable discussion on these topics is a waste of time.

Clearly, The Comedian set a tone for this thread we could not return from. 

[SirSmUgly]

I'm just genuinely disappointed that a black person is in here telling you why blackface shit should be off the Network, a position that I would guess most black folks will hold (speaking as one), and some of y'all want to argue with him. 

"Think of Bad News's kids!"

"But it'll be lost to history."

Folks, Bad News's kids or grandkids or whatever have plenty of footage available out there in which he isn't wrestling a racist dude in half-blackface to watch. 

And if some of y'all are worried about history being lost, well, the Germans banned Nazi paraphernalia post-WW2, but every German knows about them in 2021. That comparison is not, in any way, meant to be anything but an example of how banning something from the arena of casual entertainment does not erase it from historical consciousness in any way. 

If that blackface or Vince taking Cena's goofy white guy rapper gimmick to what is an unfortunate conclusion in real life for most goofy white guy rappers is put into a historical context - say a documentary in which the racism of wrestling is closely discussed and analyzed by experts - that's one thing. But "it's on the Network to enjoy freely" is not a context in which this stuff is necessary.

I'm going to be honest, "I didn't enjoy the blackface BUT" sounds a lot like a special version of "I'm not racist BUT" wherein a) you actually did enjoy the blackface, just admit it to yourself and deal with what that means for you, or b) you value having a complete show with nothing edited out over respect for the dignity of your fellow humans. And no, there is no "but let's look at the other side here!" You know the history of blackface in media in this country. You know how it has traditionally been used to portray black people. You are making a deliberate choice about valuing something else over the decency of not having that stuff free to consume as pure entertainment outside of any educational context. 

Which is what it is, but this is why I usually don't talk about stuff like this - you can't change people's values or make them consider The Other. They have to come to that consideration themselves. 

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

2 hours ago, Smelly McUgly said:

 

I'm going to be honest, "I didn't enjoy the blackface BUT" sounds a lot like a special version of "I'm not racist BUT"

I also agree with @Technico Support that the language people use to frame their arguments can give a pretty damned good clue w/r/t who is really just a garbage person.

In addition to his excellent examples, I'd add "triggered" "safe space" "rent free" "You are amusingly passive aggressive. Very 'beta' personality, I think." and "Maybe Free Will and Self-Expression Through Creativity are Good Things."

 

If the continued existence of hateful bullshit from pro wrestling's often-shameful past is hurting good people, and obviously it is, then let it all die a painful death. If some garbage people lose their shit along the way, so much the better.

 

And with all due respect, if you have a "throwing the baby out with the bathwater" or "we need to keep it around to teach people what not to do" or "their feeling don't outweigh my right to watch whatever I want" or "who watches the watchmen?" or "slippery slope" or any other type of argument to make about that, you can take your opinion, shine it up real nice, turn that sumbitch sideways and stick it straight up your candy ass.

Spoiler

 

If anyone wants something to enjoy in place of hateful racist homophobic misogynistic misty faded memories from our favourite thing's past, may I suggest trying the NJPW Collection game that they are always advertising during their streams? 

Its a complete f'ing waste of time. All you can do is collect, organize, and trade cards, and every time you "draft" new cards its all doubles of the one star Yoshi-Hashi card you already have. I'm loving it. Mostly, i am enjoying aggressively trading for cards of wrestlers i actually like.

Spoiler

 

If anybody else is playing, I'll trade you all my Taichi for all your MiSu, even if we disagree politically.

Edited March 27, 2021 by El Gran Gordi

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

31 minutes ago, El Gran Gordi said:

 

 

   If anybody else is playing, I'll trade you all my Taichi for all your MiSu, even if we disagree politically.

Also, accidental double posts from pressing "quote" instead of "edit" can give a pretty damned good clue w/r/t who is really just a f'ing dumbass.

Since I'm posting anyway:

Spoiler

Seriously, anyone want to trade? I can't be the only person here who is a big enough nerd to have downloaded that.

Also, here I am modeling the "forbidden door" collection at work: 

 

Spoiler

Edit: Apologies to @Hayabusa for gumming up your crappy countryside internet connection with so many pics.

Edit: Right! Spoiler boxes. Hat tip to @Elsalvajeloco

Edited March 27, 2021 by El Gran Gordi

[Eoae]

I realize this isn't the place for wrestling news, but John Silver said today that his shoulder injury isn't as bad as first feared and he'll be out 4-6 weeks.

 

[Super Ape]

On this day, 20 years ago, the wrong company died.

[Elsalvajeloco]

@El Gran Gordi You might want to spoiler box that stuff if you can.

[Unnatural]

This NJPW game looks neat

Thank you Gran Gordi and Elsavaje sincerely 

Good to hear about Silver, someone joked about the Dark Order claw causing all these shoulder injuries and I'm going to be pumped for his return and Anna's 

[Infinit]

2 hours ago, Hayabusa said:

Best hot tag? Three way tie between John Silver/Cesaro/Violent J*

It may not happen but I'd love Cesare and Silver on opposite sides of a tag just to see them try and out do each other on the hot tag sequence hahaha. Stick them in stables and send them into a mini feud where they always upgrade the hot tag sequence over time until it gives the "killing the business" grogs something to cry about lmao

 

 

*J being the best hot tag in the game was a long running joke among my cousins and me when we'd watch the JCW tapes hahaha. Someone would hit the tag and he'd do the hip toss/hip toss/leg drop and we'd all yell DANGEROUS!!!!! (like that early RoH announcer, Sapolsky maybe?) and laugh our fucking dumb asses off

I think Stu Grayson should be part of the "best hot tag" conversation too

[Kang]

WWE filed for the WCW trademarks for toys and dolls, toy wrestling rings, toy vehicles, board games, hand held electronic stuff, foam hands and other uses for merch. 

[jjis]

Peacock is editing old WWE content, but the Richard Pryor SNL episode from 1975 still has the n word.

[The Natural]

Even better.

[Shartnado]

On 3/26/2021 at 12:45 AM, D.Z said:

NOOOOOOOOO i wanted NXT VS Impact rating warzzzz.

  Reveal hidden contents

Not really.

 

We know that if it was to happen, you would keep us posted with the ratings newz. Well, maybe someday.

...Does Impact HAVE ratings anymore, by the way?

[Spontaneous]

2 hours ago, Shartnado said:

...Does Impact HAVE ratings anymore, by the way?

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2021/03/impact-wrestling-garners-lowest-audience-of-2021-featuring-kenny-omegas-return/

Not the greatest. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Other things that don't age well at all

Mick Foley's second or third book where the end third is dedicated to him less than subtly humblebragging about how much he donates to RAINN and talking about how great a cause it is....while making less than subtle references to masturbating over Tori Amos and mentioning that he initially only donated so he could have dinner with her, in a book where he's not even hiding how creepy he is to various WWE women of the time (Melina mostly).

Peak "...but I'm a nice guy"

Edited March 28, 2021 by GuerrillaMonsoon

[Shartnado]

32 minutes ago, Spontaneous said:

https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2021/03/impact-wrestling-garners-lowest-audience-of-2021-featuring-kenny-omegas-return/

Not the greatest. 

Is this "Ratings in Name Only" situation? As in:  "Well, they don't actually garners what people would call "ratings" per se, but we don't know what else to call it at this point".

[Spontaneous]

19 minutes ago, Shartnado said:

Is this "Ratings in Name Only" situation? As in:  "Well, they don't actually garners what people would call "ratings" per se, but we don't know what else to call it at this point".

I think they usually manage a decent number given they are broadcasting on AXS and twitch but nothing noteworthy. Their last few PPVs seem to have sold well for what they usually have done. Doesn't seem like the AEW and NJPW partnerships have lead to much else.