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FEBRUARY 2021 Discussion of Wrestling

Dolfan in NYC

By Dolfan in NYC
in The PROFESSIONAL WRESTLING

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Matt D

Matt D

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, AxB said:

Tony Khan talking about us:

 

Yeah, it's kind of hard to think poorly of anyone who has strong positive feelings about Lonce vs the World.

Alvarez is just baffling thinking, in 2021, that Kurt Angle was better than Mark Henry, mind you.

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StretchMediatedHypertrophy

StretchMediatedHypertrophy

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, Matt D said:

Yeah, it's kind of hard to think poorly of anyone who has strong positive feelings about Lonce vs the World.

Alvarez is just baffling thinking, in 2021, that Kurt Angle was better than Mark Henry, mind you.

What really matters is whether anyone ever told Dustin Rhodes about the 'matches better than anything by HHH' list.

 

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Matt D

Matt D

Posted
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Actually, one more grievance.

When Khan mentions that out of the LvtW treads and Gibson getting beaten, he made a thread about which tag team partner was better within the tag team, and Alvarez says "What? You were saying Neidhart might have been better with Bret?" and Khan comes back, slightly mollified, with Strike Force instead...

One of the biggest elements of this place over the years is that there's practically no idea that can't be raised, no matter how much it pushes against dogma, so long as you back your shit up and make a case for it. If you do a bad job backing it up, you'll probably be mocked or doubted, but if you make an earnest attempt 80% of the people here will at least appreciate your attempt and engage with you.

I'm a huge Bret fan. That said, if you actually watch the matches, especially in context, the Hart Foundation has problems as a team, some of which stem from the 80s WWF Heel-in-Peril house style. Moreover, if you actually watch the matches, you see that Neidhart brought quite a bit to the table in those matches and I think someone could easily make an argument that he brought as much as Bret, if not more so. I'm not sure I'd go out of my way to make the argument, but it's not a crazy argument if you actually watch the footage and don't just rely on either memories or the evidence of Bret's later singles career vs Neidhart's 90s work. It's certainly not an argument to be dismissed with a mocking laugh.

Edited by Matt D
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StretchMediatedHypertrophy

StretchMediatedHypertrophy

Posted
Posted

I agree also.

And this is the thing, whilst we may have consider Kurt Angle overrated (and I don't really think there's anybody here who denies his natural aptitude/potential) and we might occasionally point out elephants in the room (Curt Hennig didn't have many great matches in WWE, the Hart Foundation one above), we didn't generally big up the hosses at the expense of the technical workers. Similarly, I remember when someone made the argument that Demolition were a better team than the Road Warriors - they weren't trying to claim that the Road Warriors were overrated.

I did once consider writing a tongue-in-cheek defence of Bastian Booger, but then I watched his matches and decided I actually quite liked his work in that role. He certainly did a better leg drop than Nia Jax.

 

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Craig H

Craig H

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Posted (edited)

Holy shit...I agree with this too. I honestly didn't even remember this or think about this until right now, but I was always more impressed by Neidhart and thought he was the cooler of him and Bret. When Bret broke off for a singles run, I never thought he was any good at first because he was getting punked out by Bad News Brown and shit. I never thought that The Anvil would have gotten beaten up like that.

BTW, at the start of that interview, TK says that he chatted with Mike Sempervieve on here. Anyone have any idea who Mike was? And if Coach Tony K wasn't Tony Khan and it's just a weird coincidence then I don't know what to think anymore.

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Matt D

Matt D

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The way I see it, there are two different elements to what we generally do as a community.

1. We rewatch the footage, watch it in context, watch the matches that were often skipped over due to the necessity of "comp tapes", or watch new footage which wasn't previously available.

2. We recontextualize the footage by examining elements that were not previously as valued in in the traditional workrate-driven culture.

Sometimes we do that and discover that what everyone thought basically holds up. Sometimes we discover things hold up but there were other positive things that hadn't been appreciated. Sometimes we discover that things don't actually hold up or there are negative elements that were swept under the rug or even not seen as negative previously. Sometimes we decide that the emperor actually had no clothes. And we present these thoughts and people can dig in and retort them.

I welcome people to challenge me on Brody, and I've gone and found qualifications and specific matches that I think do challenge my arguments and I point to them as the exceptions that sort of make the rule. When I am so lucky to be given a brand new Nick Bockwinkel match, I come into it a little worried that this is the match that's going to destroy my entire theory of him as the best wrestler ever, and I come out of it relieved that it wasn't.

And of course, it's all subjective, so sometimes half the posters can think one thing and half can think the other and we just agree to disagree after going around in circles for a while.

All of this is ok. The only thing that's not okay is to say that we can't possible understand something because we're not a wrestler or because we weren't in the crowd thirty-five years ago or that we're just being trolls, unless, of course, someone's not willing to back their stuff up.

Edited by Matt D
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hammerva

hammerva

Posted
Posted (edited)

I know that isn't the intended purpose of Young Rock but from the first 2 shows,  the narrative that Tony Atlas was the asshole of the tag team isn't holding any water.   

I did love how Rocky is briefly trying to explain the business to a girl to impress her and like "what are you talking about".  I mean 1987 Dwayne acting like the Twitter meme of the guy yelling at the hot girl about something serious that she is bored about is funny

 

 

 

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odessasteps

odessasteps

Posted
Posted
47 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Holy shit...I agree with this too. I honestly didn't even remember this or think about this until right now, but I was always more impressed by Neidhart and thought he was the cooler of him and Bret. When Bret broke off for a singles run, I never thought he was any good at first because he was getting punked out by Bad News Brown and shit. I never thought that The Anvil would have gotten beaten up like that.

BTW, at the start of that interview, TK says that he chatted with Mike Sempervieve on here. Anyone have any idea who Mike was? And if Coach Tony K wasn't Tony Khan and it's just a weird coincidence then I don't know what to think anymore.

Mike posted under his own name, although not anytime recently. 

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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

Posted
Posted

Neidhart was a great bully, so yeah, that holds water.

Heck, if you read Bret's book, even he admits that he struggled to find himself for those first couple of years in the company, and he obviously thinks highly of himself (as a potential G.O.A.T. should). 

I've only seen some of Neidhart's Stampede stuff, but in general, I think he was a very good tag guy and a forgettable singles guy. People underrate good tag workers in general unless they're also good singles workers. 

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SirSmUgly

SirSmUgly

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, odessasteps said:

You should def check out his work in mid south and Memphis 

I've seen snippets, but not enough of his work in Memphis. I just need to see more Mid-South in general. I thought Jim Duggan was a total dog before I saw him in Mid-South. He was like a totally different guy. All the Mid-South I've ever seen has been entertaining. 

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BAHU

BAHU

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/20/2021 at 12:03 AM, Casey said:

I imagine the resident FMW expert @BAHU would know. I've tried googling this for like 10 minutes and literally nothing comes up except that tweet.

English commentary over FMW matches is giving me flashbacks to those awesome (yet horrible) Tokyo Pop VHS tapes I used to have back in the 2000s. I think those tapes were my first exposure to deathmatch wrestling AND joshi (Megumi Kudo more specifically, felt like she was all over the match listings for those tapes). I also really liked the Headhunters at the time, but I was also like 11 years old and thought Ministry Undertaker was the edgiest and coolest thing ever.

Sorry! Just got the notification that I was tagged in this. The ECW Hardcore TV show from 12/31/97 opened pretty much to this part of the Onita vs. Kanemura match maybe a couple of seconds prior and then they showed the explosion like Styles was there. Then they showed stuff on the show from 12/22/97 Korakuen Hall like Sabu vs. Sandman as if it was the same tour with the ECW guys as Kawasaki Stadium from September with Joey calling those matches like he was there. They did not show anything else besides that clip of the Kawasaki Stadium show.

Edited by BAHU
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Guest Edwin

Guest Edwin

Posted
Posted (edited)

I won't call Seltzer a racist like other folks have over the Bad Bunny clip solely, but I find it funny he says he's not loved by everyone in the Latin community. I don't think there's a single person in any community that's beloved by everyone, so that's a meaningless thing to say. But yes, Bad Bunny is a household name in North America, South America and in several countries of Europe (namely Spain and Italy).

Back to Bad Bunny, WWE is smart for bringing him in. He's a massive star and is actually a wrestling fan (as is DJ Luian who used to work with him and who's done appearances on local indy shows in Puerto Rico and was at Ric Flair's wedding, but obviously not as popular as Bad Bunny). Regardless of the show he's on, he's going to bring in a lot of viewers from the Hispanic community which maybe won't be reflected in TV ratings as the younger folks spend more time streaming stuff and on social media as proven by him breaking merch sale numbers and social media interaction. The clip he posted of him slapping the Miz got something like 26 million views or something in 1 minute. Just ridiculous.

The other positive thing is he's clearly being used to elevate Damian Priest's popularity.

Given there's not much touring Bad Bunny can do now due to the pandemic, I can see him sticking around after Mania. As I said, the dude grew up a WWE fan, so he obviously loves what he's doing and is making a ton of money, so he definitely wouldn't mind sticking around.

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RIPPA

RIPPA

Posted
Posted
45 minutes ago, Edwin said:

Now Seltzer saying viewers from India were "worthless" to advertisers last week on his website is something I'd more so call him out for...

To be fair - he was quoting that from, presumably folks like Court Bauer, since he specifically referenced talking to MLW about the Youtube monetization and how MLW (and others) are geoblocking India because advertisers frown upon the hits from India and consider them "worthless'' (apparently, ideally,  advertisers want to see views specific to North America)

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GuerrillaMonsoon

GuerrillaMonsoon

Posted
Posted

Anvil was a great hot tag, had awesome charisma and was a better Jim Duggan post 1987 than Jim Duggan. If the midcard wasn't stacked with former top guys from other territories, they could have easily done more with him post HF split than they did, instead it was easier and safer going with Steamboat, Duggan, Slaughter, etc.

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Spontaneous

Spontaneous

Posted
Posted (edited)

https://www.patreon.com/posts/marty-scurll-at-47957576

So Scurll was backstage at NJPW Strong. That's a big no from me. I don't want to see him anywhere near a ring. I suspect NJPW would take him back though.

Spoiler

https://www.cagesideseats.com/2021/2/24/22300001/marty-scurrl-return-new-japan-speakingout

If true, I hope it blows up in their face. F the boys club mentality.

 

Edited by Spontaneous
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