MLB Expansion Era HOF ballot announced

[tystates]

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-releases/twelve-finalists-comprise-expansion-era-ballot-hall-fame-consideration-2014

 

Twelve Finalists Comprise Expansion Era Ballot For Hall of Fame Consideration in 2014 Candidacies of Six Players, Four Managers, Two Executives to Be Reviewed at Winter Meetings

 

November 04, 2013

 

(COOPERSTOWN, NY) – Six former major league players, four managers and two executives comprise the 12-name Expansion Era ballot, featuring candidates whose greatest contributions to the game were realized from 1973 through the present. A 16-member Expansion Era electorate will review and cast votes at the 2013 Baseball Winter Meetings for consideration for the Hall of Fame Class of 2014, the National Baseball Hall of Fame and Museum announced today.

 

Dave Concepcion, Bobby Cox, Steve Garvey, Tommy John, Tony La Russa, Billy Martin, Marvin Miller, Dave Parker, Dan Quisenberry, Ted Simmons, George Steinbrenner, Joe Torre are the candidates that will be considered by the electorate. Any candidate who earns votes on 75% of ballots cast will earn election to the National Baseball Hall of Fame and will be inducted on Sunday, July 27, 2014 in Cooperstown, N.Y. Results of the Expansion Era vote will be announced on Monday, December 9 at 10 a.m. ET from the Winter Meetings in Orlando, Fla.

 

The 16-member Hall of Fame Board-appointed electorate charged with the review of the Expansion Era ballot features: Hall of Fame members Rod Carew, Carlton Fisk, Whitey Herzog, Tommy Lasorda, Joe Morgan, Paul Molitor, Phil Niekro and Frank Robinson; major league executives Paul Beeston (Blue Jays), Andy MacPhail, Dave Montgomery (Phillies) and Jerry Reinsdorf (White Sox); and historians Steve Hirdt (Elias Sports Bureau), Bruce Jenkins (San Francisco Chronicle), Jack O’Connell (BBWAA) and Jim Reeves (retired, Fort Worth Star-Telegram).

 

The Expansion Era ballot was devised this fall by the Baseball Writers’ Association of America (BBWAA)-appointed Historical Overview Committee from all eligible candidates among managers, umpires, executives and long-retired players, whose most significant career impact was realized from 1973 through the present. Eligible candidates include players who appeared in at least 10 consecutive major league seasons, who are not on Major League Baseball’s ineligible list and have been retired for 21 or more seasons (those whose last playing appearance was no later than 1992); managers and umpires with 10 or more years in baseball and retired for at least five years, with candidates who are 65 years or older eligible six months from the date of the election following retirement; and Executives with 10 consecutive years in baseball and retired for at least five years, with active executives 65 years or older are eligible for consideration.

 

The 11-member Historical Overview Committee is comprised of: Dave Van Dyck (Chicago Tribune); Bob Elliott (Toronto Sun); Steve Hirdt (Elias Sports Bureau); Rick Hummel (St. Louis Post-Dispatch); Bill Madden (New York Daily News); Ken Nigro, (formerly Baltimore Sun); Jack O’Connell (BBWAA secretary/treasurer); Tracy Ringolsby (FSN Rocky Mountain/MLB.com); Glenn Schwarz (San Francisco Chronicle); Claire Smith (ESPN) and Mark Whicker (Orange County Register). 

 

This election marks the start of a second full cycle of Committee Era elections for Managers, Umpires, Executives and Long-Retired Players by Era, a process that begin with the 2010 Expansion Era election and has featured Era elections for the Golden Era (1947-’72) and Pre-Integration Era (origins through 1946) in subsequent years. The three-year cycle for Era Committee consideration was adopted by the Hall of Fame’s Board of Directors in July 2010.

 

In the 2010 Expansion Era process, Pat Gillick was elected to the Hall of Fame, earning votes on 13 of the 16 ballots cast. Others receiving consideration for election in 2010 through the Expansion Era Committee process included: Marvin Miller (11 votes, 68.75%); Dave Concepcion (8 votes, 50%); Vida Blue, Steve Garvey, Ron Guidry, Tommy John, Billy Martin, Al Oliver, Ted Simmons, Rusty Staub and George Steinbrenner each received less than eight votes. The 2013 Expansion Era ballot features five new candidates and seven returning names to the 2013 ballot. New to the ballot for 2013: Cox, La Russa, Parker, Quisenberry and Torre, while Concepcion, Garvey, John, Miller, Martin, Simmons and Steinbrenner are making a return to the ballot.

 

Previous Committees on Baseball Veterans considered individual elections for individual categories of candidates for election: Players, Managers/Umpires and Executives. Electorates now consider candidates by era. The cycle will continue in 2014 for Hall of Fame election in 2015 with the Golden Era Committee and in 2015 for Hall of Fame election in 2016 with the Pre-Integration Era Committee.

 

The 12 candidates for the 2013 Expansion Era consideration:

 

Dave Concepcion spent 19 seasons as the Cincinnati Reds shortstop, compiling a .267 average with 2,326 hits, 321 stolen bases and two Silver Slugger Awards, along five Gold Glove Awards and nine All-Star Game selections.

 

Bobby Cox ranks fourth all-time in wins among managers, compiling a 2,504-2,001 (.556) record in 29 seasons as a major league manager, winning the 1995 World Series, while capturing five National League pennants in 25 years with the Braves, also spending four years managing the Toronto Blue Jays. Led Braves to 14 straight division titles from 1991-2005 (not including strike-shortened 1994 season).

 

Steve Garvey compiled a .294 career average over 19 major league seasons with the Dodgers and Padres, amassing 2,599 hits, 272 home runs, 1,308 RBI and 10 All-Star Game selections. He hit .338 with 11 home runs and 31 RBI in 11 postseason series, was named the 1978 and 1984 NLCS MVP and won the 1981 Roberto Clemente Award.  Garvey won four Gold Glove Awards and played in an N.L. record 1,207 straight games.

 

Tommy John pitched 26 seasons for the Indians, Dodgers, Yankees, Angels and A’s, finishing his career after the 1989 season with a record of 288-231 and 3.34 ERA. His 700 career starts rank eighth on the all-time list and his 4,710.1 innings rank 20th all-time. 

 

Tony La Russa ranks third all-time in wins among managers, compiling a 2,728-2,365 (.536) record in 33 seasons a manager, winning three World Series (1989 Oakland, 2006 St. Louis, 2011 St. Louis) while guiding the Oakland A’s to three A.L. pennants in 10 seasons (1988-90) and the St. Louis Cardinals to three N.L. pennants in 16 years (2004, 2006, 2011). Also spent eight years managing the Chicago White Sox.

 

Billy Martin spent 16 seasons 1969, 1971-83, 1985, 1988) managing the Twins, Tigers, Rangers, Yankees (five different stints) and A’s, compiling a 1,253-1015 record (.552). Martin’s teams finished in first place five times, winning two American League pennants and one World Series with 1977 Yankees.

 

Marvin Miller was elected as the head of the Major League Baseball Players Association in 1966 and quickly turned the union into a powerhouse. Within a decade, Miller had secured free agency for the players. By the time he retired in 1982, the average player salary was approximately 10 times what it was when he took over.

 

Dave Parker compiled a .290 career average over 19 major league seasons with six teams, spending 11 years in Pittsburgh and four years in Cincinnati, amassing 339 home runs, 1,439 RBI and two batting titles (1977-78). The 1978 N.L. MVP was named to seven All-Star games and three Gold Glove Awards.

 

Dan Quisenberry recorded 244 saves in a 12-year major league career, spending 10 seasons in Kansas City, where he finished in the Top 5 in Cy Young Award voting in five different seasons, while being named to three All-Star teams, leading the league in saves five times. Posted a career 56-46 record with a 2.76 ERA in 674 relief appearances.

 

Ted Simmons played for 21 seasons, totaling a .285 batting average, 2,472 hits, 483 doubles, 248 home runs and 1,389 RBI for the Cardinals, Brewers and Braves. An eight-time All-Star, he garnered MVP votes six times in his career.

 

George Steinbrenner guided the New York Yankees franchise as principal owner after purchasing the team in 1973 to his death in 2010, with his teams winning 11 American League pennants and seven World Series titles.

 

Joe Torre won four World Series titles and six pennants in 29 seasons as a major league manager, following an 18-year major league playing career in which he compiled a career .297 batting average. As a manager, posted a 2,326-1,997 record (a .538 winning percentage), leading the Yankees to titles in 1996, 1998, 1999 and 2000 (in addition to 100-win seasons in 1998, 2002-‘04), and winning the A.L. pennant in 2001 and 2003.

 

Also at the Winter Meetings, the winner of the 2014 J.G. Taylor Spink Award, for meritorious contributions to baseball writing, will be announced on Tuesday, December 10, and the 2014 Ford C. Frick Award for baseball broadcasting excellence, will be announced by the Hall of Fame on Wednesday, December 11. The 2014 BBWAA Hall of Fame ballot will be announced on November 25, with the results to be announced on January 8, 2014 at 2 p.m. ET.

[OSJ]

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-releases/twelve-finalists-comprise-expansion-era-ballot-hall-fame-consideration-2014

 

 

 

 

 

Dave Concepcion - the best of a bad lot. NO

Bobby Cox - Managed the greatest team in history. Sadly underachieved, but should still be in. YES.

Steve Garvey - NO! Not in a million years. Over-hyped douchebag. If he had played anywhere but LA there wouldn't even be a discussion. NO!

Tommy John - The Jim Kaat of his era. Wouldn't piss me off if he went in, but there are far more worthy candidates to look at. NO!

Tony La Russa - Arguably the greatest manager ever. Slam dunk YES!

Billy Martin - I grew up watching him as a player and manager and love the guy. But a serious NO!

Marvin Miller - Did he ruin the game, or save it? Either way, I can't think of one man in my lifetime that had more influence. YES!

Dave Parker - If writers really understood stats, he'd already be in. YES! 

Dan Quisenberry - Relievers from this time period are going to have a tough row to hoe due to the artificially flashy stats we see today. Still, I remember Quiz, and it was "game over" when he came in. YES!

Ted Simmons - If he'd played in NY or LA he'd already be in. The myth of poor defense has been exploded by Bill James and others. YES!

George Steinbrenner - I don't know that owning a team and being a jerk are necessarily criteria for admission. NO!

Joe Torre - This is a tough one, like Gil Hodges... The whole comes out much greater than the sum of the parts. A fine, fine, player but not necessarily a HOFr. A fine, fine manager but not quite HOF caliber. Still, when you look at everything put together, it's pretty hard to say that he doesn't belong. YES!

 

Yipes! Seven "yes" votes from me! That's about as generous as I get... However, that's three players, three non-players, and a combo. Seems about right.

 

Anyone else? Rippa, Tabe, Tystates?

[RIPPA]

Basically it is a stacked fucking deck.

 

It's like they were going out of their way to make sure Miller's death doesn't get him in

[The Man Known as Dan]

If McGwire doesn't get in, neither should La Russa.

 

 

Note: I think both should be in, but I just find it really hypocritical that if La Russa, who managed 2 really dirty teams to world series, gets in, then the players who got him there should be too.

[Dolfan in NYC]

 

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-releases/twelve-finalists-comprise-expansion-era-ballot-hall-fame-consideration-2014

 

Marvin Miller - Did he ruin the game, or save it? Either way, I can't think of one man in my lifetime that had more influence. YES!

 

George Steinbrenner - ... NO!

 

 

 

You are high right now, aren't you?   Just need to check.

[Tabe]

My take:

 

Dave Concepcion - Get serious.  No way.

Bobby Cox - Tough call.  Probably should be in but it's tough to overlook the constant World Series failures.  So no.

Steve Garvey - Get serious.  No way.

Tommy John - No.  Not nearly enough years as a great player.  If you wanna say he gets in because of the surgery with his name on it, I'll listen.

Tony La Russa - Probably belongs in but the above poster is right about La Russa managing dirty teams.

Billy Martin - No.

Marvin Miller - Other than Barry Bonds, Far and away the #1 guy not already in the HOF that belongs in - bar none.  Yes, ahead of Shoeless Joe or Pete Rose.

Dave Parker - No.  Another guy whose off years were too "off".  A great player but the drugs turned 5 prime years into 5 average-or-worse years.

Dan Quisenberry - No.  Too short a run as a good pitcher.

Ted Simmons - Yep.  Excellent-hitting catcher killed by playing in non-prime markets.

George Steinbrenner - Originally had this as a no but rethought it.  George changed the game along with Marvin Miller.  Won a bunch of titles as owner.  So Yes. 

Joe Torre - As a player?  No.  As a manager?  Maybe.  Didn't exactly light the world on fire until he had George's checkbook to buy titles.  Still, hard to ignore the results.  Whole package, I say he's in.

[OSJ]

 

 

http://baseballhall.org/news/press-releases/twelve-finalists-comprise-expansion-era-ballot-hall-fame-consideration-2014

 

Marvin Miller - Did he ruin the game, or save it? Either way, I can't think of one man in my lifetime that had more influence. YES!

 

George Steinbrenner - ... NO!

 

 

 

You are high right now, aren't you?   Just need to check.

 

 

Well, I just took 30mg of morphine, but it hasn't kicked in yet, no the answer would be "no".

[RIPPA]

Remember the Vet Committee considers all factors of their career - So Torre (and the other guys) but Torre specifically is being considered for both his playing and managing combined. And that is why - like as Tabe hinted on - I think you could make the argument for Tommy John

 

I think Miller is a lock since he was only a vote short last time and since he has passed - you would assume that would put him over the top.

 

I am thinking he and Torre get in.

I could see a few of those voters really not being very found of La Russa

[OSJ]

From Tabe: "Dave Parker - No.  Another guy whose off years were too "off".  A great player but the drugs turned 5 prime years into 5 average-or-worse years."

 

I think you need to look at the total picture again. Even his five years staying too long at the dance don't hurt him that much. One of the dominate hitters in a pitcher-friendly era, a tremendous defensive player, and a terror on the basepaths (unless he was trying to protect his vial of coke).

 

I fully agree about Tony's dirty teams, however, I think guys like McGwire and Sosa still belong in. What they were doing was part of the game then. Yeah, it was cheating, but I don't hear anyone campaigning to kick Gaylord Perry or John McGraw out of the HOF.

[muhammedboehm]

Does the Committee get to look at Tommy John for his the surgery also? How many pitchers are in the hall of fame that had it?

[Tabe]

From Tabe: "Dave Parker - No.  Another guy whose off years were too "off".  A great player but the drugs turned 5 prime years into 5 average-or-worse years."

 

I think you need to look at the total picture again. Even his five years staying too long at the dance don't hurt him that much. One of the dominate hitters in a pitcher-friendly era, a tremendous defensive player, and a terror on the basepaths (unless he was trying to protect his vial of coke).

 

I fully agree about Tony's dirty teams, however, I think guys like McGwire and Sosa still belong in. What they were doing was part of the game then. Yeah, it was cheating, but I don't hear anyone campaigning to kick Gaylord Perry or John McGraw out of the HOF.

C'mon OSJ, you're a writer, you know the word is "dominant"

 

I did look at his numbers but looked again and I still think he's a no.  Not a bad pick by any means, I just don't think he had quite enough great seasons.  One or two more 1978s or 1985s and he's a shoo-in.

[RIPPA]

Here we go - since the original post didn't make it clear

 

 

"Voting - The Committee shall consider all 12 candidates and voting shall be based upon the individual's record, ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character and contribution to the game. Electors may vote for as few as zero (0) and as many as five (5) eligible candidates deemed worthy of election. Write-in votes are not permitted."

 

 

So in theory - based on that wording, Yes, they can consider the surgery.

[OSJ]

 

From Tabe: "Dave Parker - No.  Another guy whose off years were too "off".  A great player but the drugs turned 5 prime years into 5 average-or-worse years."

 

I think you need to look at the total picture again. Even his five years staying too long at the dance don't hurt him that much. One of the dominate hitters in a pitcher-friendly era, a tremendous defensive player, and a terror on the basepaths (unless he was trying to protect his vial of coke).

 

I fully agree about Tony's dirty teams, however, I think guys like McGwire and Sosa still belong in. What they were doing was part of the game then. Yeah, it was cheating, but I don't hear anyone campaigning to kick Gaylord Perry or John McGraw out of the HOF.

C'mon OSJ, you're a writer, you know the word is "dominant"

 

I did look at his numbers but looked again and I still think he's a no.  Not a bad pick by any means, I just don't think he had quite enough great seasons.  One or two more 1978s or 1985s and he's a shoo-in.

 

 

Well, even in 1990 he was in the top ten for total bases, hardly a choad by any stretch.

Black Ink Batting - 26 (72), Average HOFer ≈ 27 Gray Ink Batting - 145 (99), Average HOFer ≈ 144 Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 124 (111), Likely HOFer ≈ 100 Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 42 (148), Average HOFer ≈ 50

 

From this you would conclude (as I have) that once you make adjustments for the first half of his career (pitcher dominated), he not only looks like a very good candidate, he becomes a slam dunk no-brainer. I'll drag out the case of Alan Trammell, whom we both agree on. In the era of inflated stats when a Luis Gonzalez or Brady Anderson slams fifty taters in a season, Parker doesn't look that good. When we look at how dominant he was as a hitter (even well past his prime, he was a serious threat). Parker becomes one of those guys who is robbed by his era.

Trammell doesn't look so great against Nomar Garciaparra until you get to WAR, but guess which guy I'd rather build a team around.

[Tabe]

Well, yeah, hardly a choad  

 

Like I said, I just feel like he needed one or two more great seasons to get in.  I won't be campaigning for him to be booted out if he gets in (which he won't) but I think he's right at the very top of the guys that just don't quite belong in.

[odessasteps]

I fear The Boss and the Bigelow Tea Man going in together.

[Joe Lucia]

12 candidates, 16 voters, five votes per ballot, and 75% needed...my math tells me that six is the maximum amount that can get it.

 

My ballot would be Cox, La Russa, Torre, and Miller. I don't see how you can make a case against any of the three managers, considering they're the most successful of the last 20+ years and rank 3-4-5 all-time in wins, and all have better winning percentages than recent inductees Williams, Lasorda, and Herzog.

[piranesi]

La Russa should get in just so he can stop his speech to ask someone to check Bobby's suit pockets for illegal substances.

 

Also, because right about now you could all use a reminder lecture on how to play the game right.

[odessasteps]

Maybe LaRussa will fall asleep halfway through the ceremony because he was drunk.

[piranesi]

No way we get a clean finish.  I call Dusty Baker run-in.

[OSJ]

Maybe LaRussa will fall asleep halfway through the ceremony because he was drunk.

 

I think that you're confusing LaRussa with Connie Mack.

[OSJ]

12 candidates, 16 voters, five votes per ballot, and 75% needed...my math tells me that six is the maximum amount that can get it.

 

My ballot would be Cox, La Russa, Torre, and Miller. I don't see how you can make a case against any of the three managers, considering they're the most successful of the last 20+ years and rank 3-4-5 all-time in wins, and all have better winning percentages than recent inductees Williams, Lasorda, and Herzog.

 

How many managers? I may be wrong, but it seems to me that Mr. Martin managed a few games.

[Tabe]

I'm assuming by "three managers" he meant the three on his list.

[Tabe]

 

Maybe LaRussa will fall asleep halfway through the ceremony because he was drunk.

 

I think that you're confusing LaRussa with Connie Mack.

 

Tony will just stand up there and wave his law degree at all of us to remind us he is oh-sooooooooooooo much smarter than the rest of us.

 

Then get popped for DUI on the way home from the ceremony to reminder us he is oh-sooooooooooooo not smarter than the rest of us.

[Joe Lucia]

Yeah. Meant the three "new" managers on the ballot, as Martin was a holdover from the last time. 

 

You can trot out the Steinbrenner millions logic re: Torre all you want, but those Yankees teams he won with were really before the money started *too* getting absurd.

[Kuetsar]

From Tabe: "Dave Parker - No.  Another guy whose off years were too "off".  A great player but the drugs turned 5 prime years into 5 average-or-worse years."

 

I think you need to look at the total picture again. Even his five years staying too long at the dance don't hurt him that much. One of the dominate hitters in a pitcher-friendly era, a tremendous defensive player, and a terror on the basepaths (unless he was trying to protect his vial of coke).

 

I fully agree about Tony's dirty teams, however, I think guys like McGwire and Sosa still belong in. What they were doing was part of the game then. Yeah, it was cheating, but I don't hear anyone campaigning to kick Gaylord Perry or John McGraw out of the HOF.

I would say there is a difference between stealing signs and gooping up the ball and roids. If your caught at the in game stuff your thrown out and everyone was welcome to try if they liked(and don't think for a second that mcgraw(and duroucher) were the only ones to steal signs. Roids are just dirty on another leve. Hypocritical I know, its just my personal opinion. Put Miller, Larussa, Cox, Torre and Simmons in. George probably deserves it, but he and Martin should go in together, if at all. . .