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The USADA/Fighter Pay/COVID Positive/Venum Apparel Thread


Elsalvajeloco

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This thread is for:

1. Any potential USADA violations and sanctions as well as changes to the policies. You can also post commission related drug test failures as well.

2. Discussion of fighter pay

3. The ongoing Zuffa antitrust lawsuit and the trial which is set to get rolling this year

4. All covid positives or covid related issues be they in UFC, PFL, Bellator, etc. If a new fight is made because of said positive or issue, that can be posted in the MMA Talk thread instead. This thread is just for when fighters are announced being positive or also for example, a fighter's cornerman cannot corner them because they tested positive. I am trying to keep event threads from getting cluttered in case certain cards get hit hard during fight week.

5. News and photos of Venum apparel for UFC as they transition to a new global outfitting partner. In addition, you can post news on UFC finding or signing a partner for their footwear provider when pertinent.

6. This is a new one and it's mainly due to number 1 above, but any fights that have been overturned due to drug test failures OR controversial finishes that have been successfully appealed. You can also post news if a fighter is appealing a certain fight.

I've had a hard time keeping track of which fights get overturned due to the news usually flying under the radar. So if you happen to find one or see it on your news of Twitter feed, please post it here so I can make changes to the event threads for record keeping purposes. Thanks in advance.

Anyway, let's keep these discussions friendly, cordial, and civil.

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Finally. 

Although... 

Quote

It is important to note that the change in USADA policy does not directly affect regulations by state athletic commissions, so athletes do not have carte blanche with marijuana use following the announcement. However, Novitzky is hopeful that the change to UFC policy can ultimately pave the way for similar moves at the state level.

“I would caution everybody to temper their enthusiasm about this because we still have the commission factor here, but we are actively working on that,” Novitzky told MMA Junkie. “We are educating, informing, lobbying them, and I hope not too far in the near future that we can get uniformity across all the rules as it relates to marijuana because I think it would certainly be a benefit to the athletes.”

 

Edited by Jiji
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Re: Commission

I saw today that Bevon Lewis got fined and suspended for a failed test due to marijuana for his last fight before he got released. 

I can see the commission (especially Nevada's) making a case about "well, what if guys come into a fight incredibly high then..." when actuality they just want to net the money from the fines.

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Read UFC/Venum deal begins in April 2021. Good riddance to Reebok:

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Screenshot_from_2015-12-01_10_54_13.0.pn

 

Reebok's UFC clothing look fucking shit and way too expensive. My Parents and little Sister bought me two UFC Sherpa Full Zip Hoodies back in 2010-2011, such a difference in quality and price:

Spoiler

ufc-hoodie.jpg

OIP.d-8EGB8eIzJGkO4rCLIIJgHaHa?pid=Api&d

Reebok:

Spoiler

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I miss the individual looks before Reebok came along: Anderson Silva's black and yellow, Rich Franklin's brown and pink. Chuck Liddell's blue with white icicles. The days of TapouT, Bad Boy and Venum. 

Edited by The Natural
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Paul Varelans sadly passed away from the coronavirus, only 51 years old. RIPPA posted the obituary from the WON in the wrestling section of the board and I'm posting it here if anybody missed it there. Thanks.

Spoiler

It was at this time when he was contacted by ECW. Heyman had the idea of building Sabu, his top star at the time, into a slow-building feud with Taz, which would be held off until he could get a PPV show. The idea was the maniac fighter against the real fighter, with Taz as the shootfighter. Heyman pushed Taz as a martial arts expert, and had him beat everyone quickly with a judo choke. Varelans, between his size and UFC exposure, on paper was probably the best opponent since he couldn’t get Severn, and Shamrock and Abbott had exclusive contracts with UFC at the time.

He was brought to ringside at a show at the June 1, 1996, ECW arena in Philadelphia. There was a buzz in the building as people knew who he was and he was brought out right before Taz faced Jason Helton, in what was billed as a shoot fight, a thing that got a lot of the veteran wrestlers in the promotion upset with the idea that weren’t all pro wrestling matches as billed to the public supposed to be shoots. Helton was billed as an MMA fighter from Canada, although he was actually a pro wrestler who worked Alberta for the prior four years after being trained by Bruce Hart. When Taz won quickly, he called out Varelans in the audience, and they did a big pull-apart.

Varelans did what were billed as shoot fights on ECW shows in Reading and Jim Thorpe, PA, beating Helton in less than 30 seconds, to lead to the big match with Taz on June 22, 1996.

Varelans didn’t really understand the angle and wasn’t fully told that his role was really just to get Taz over, as he thought it was about him. He balked about losing clean, thinking a more convoluted finish would protect his aura and make him more marketable for future shows, not realizing that Heyman wasn’t looking at him long-term.

Heyman tried to talk him into just losing clean to a choke, promising him a push later, and saying they’d make him an honorary part of ECW, so that when he fought in UFC, he’d have the ECW fan base behind him. He still wasn’t comfortable with losing clean to Taz. Eventually Varelans agreed, and evidently Heyman promised him a blowjob from Missy Hyatt, who he had the hots for immediately after seeing her, if he would lose. Keep in mind that promise was from Heyman, not from her.

Still, nobody trusted anyone at that point. The thing was a mess. Heyman sent out a number of ECW heels who were tough guys to be at ringside. He didn’t send babyfaces because Taz was the heel in the feud with Sabu at this point, although the idea was he’d be the shooter babyface down the line. Perry Saturn came off the top rope with a shoot missile dropkick that Varelans may or may not have known was coming, but even he admitted the dropkick was hard as hell. Varelans did go up for Taz’s suplex and Taz choked him out.

“I’m under the impression that Varelans thought the ECW valets were porn stars or strippers, which might be where he thought he could ask for his incentive to do the job,” said Hyatt. “Every ECW valet was approached on who could convince Paul to do the job.

“I could have cared less about the manipulations that were going on for him to job to Taz. I started talking to Paul (Varelans) about the UFC. He acted like he was big leaguing me as if he was a top UFC guy. So I brought up his win-loss record and being knocked out by Tank Abbott. Paul insulted my intelligence by telling me UFC was a work at times and the Tank loss wasn't real. I was so annoyed that he was trying to work me. So now I'm going to work him. That's why I got involved. Don’t try to out work a wrestling person in their own environment. It's so childish and stupid looking back on it on everyone's end. Most people would be holding up for money or a contract.”

So the promise was made, but after the loss, Hyatt then told Varelans that she doesn’t give blowjobs to jobbers.

Everyone was upset about it. Varelans thought he was played and double-crossed, thought American pro wrestling was a shell game and never did it again. Although Taz did get over in the new role, this match wasn’t what he envisioned since Saturn interference took away from the Taz win, but evidently they felt they needed to knock him out with a sucker kick to set up the choke. It is available on the WWE Network and you can see the live crowd didn’t buy it at all. Heyman never put the match on television although he did get the visual he wanted, editing it to only show the closing seconds on television, the scene of Taz choking out the huge UFC star. Taz and Saturn insisted that Varelans couldn’t have won a real fight and that when they trained together, Varelans knew nothing, and the reason he was in UFC was because he was a big guy with a good look but not a lot of skill, which wasn’t inaccurate. Varelans said he thought about getting up and punching out everyone, saying he’d knock the first guy down with one punch and the rest would probably back off anyway, or he’d deck them one by one. That said, he also said that he liked Taz personally and had no problem with him at all.

This was how it was reported here at the time.

The match was actually the second most hyped match on the show, stemming from an angle three weeks earlier. The idea was to create the idea that Taz was a world-class shooter by having him beat a proven UFC fighter. However, Varelans refused to do a clean job several days before the show. Since Heyman knew there could be problems in the ring and the match could stink up the joint, he moved it to early in the show. A compromise finish was worked out where Perry Saturn dropkicked Varelans from the top rope allowing Taz to give Varelans a suplex and use the choke finisher in 2:24. After the match Taz turned the heat on the fans who were mad about the poor match and weak finish, saying that he could have beaten Varelans clean but it would have made all the ECW fans happy to see an ECW guy stretch a UFC guy and he didn't want to make the fans happy.

There was tremendous heat regarding Varelans in the days leading to the show, including a possibility that he wouldn't show up. He also missed a scheduled session working out the match four days beforehand. The tension got so serious that Heyman was saying that in a true shoot Taz, who has a wrestling and judo background, would destroy Varelans easily, because the whole idea of this match was designed to get people to believe Taz was real, like a true shoot has anything to do with any of this. Heyman also stationed numerous heel wrestlers at ringside for the match, both Eliminators, Shane Douglas and Rob Van Dam, presumably in case there were problems in the ring.

Varelans claimed working for ECW was like being involved in the classic con "shell game." He said when they brought him in, they gave him no indication where he or the angle was going. Since he was naive to the workings of pro wrestling, he didn't recognize it initially. He credited several of the ECW wrestlers with smartening him up, telling him where it was going, warning him beforehand and telling him he shouldn't do a clean job. Heyman claimed Varelans knew where they were going from the beginning and claimed to have signed Varelans to a contract with it specifying a choke finish and tap out.

Varelans said he wished he had more practice before being thrown in there and that the two worked out once for two hours on the mat, but hardly worked out the match at all, and said he had no problems losing as long as it was a cheat finish but they weren't paying enough for him to do a clean job. Plus with him scheduled to be in the September UFC tournament, he didn't think it was a smart career move to do a clean job to a pro wrestler even in a worked match. He said Heyman was pressuring him up until the last second to do the clean finish because he told him he felt it was important not to screw the fans and even told him he'd ruin him in the pro wrestling business for three years if he didn't do the clean job.

Varelans claimed he's not really interested in doing pro wrestling regularly until he's done with Vale Tudo rules fighting which is several years down the road anyway. Varelans brought up another idea for the finish, which he said Heyman first came up with and he agreed to, which would have been for the Eliminators to hit their total elimination of him before Taz put him out. Varelans said Heyman nixed that idea claiming to him that he was splitting up the Eliminators, while Heyman said it was Varelans who came up with the idea and he wouldn't agree to it.

Varelans said Taz was a great guy and that Taz even told him what they were doing to him was wrong, but laughed at the idea of guy "who comes up to my waist" being able to beat him or be in the league with the top guys he's faced in UFC if it was a shoot.

"I'm not big on going back," said Varelans, who has dabbled with the idea of pro wrestling in Dallas, even though he said he had a good time doing it. "I just wanted to get it out of the way. It wasn't worth it. I don't like being treated like an idiot. If I'd have known what it was all about, I'd have never done it."

Varelans also said Heyman promised him none of the footage of the match would ever air on television, and it would be saved exclusively for home video. The finish of Taz choking Varelans out, but nothing else, did air on television. The match was also not released unedited on the DVD, but it does appear on the WWE Network version of the show. Heyman said that it didn’t go as he wanted, but he got the footage of Taz choking out a UFC star and the result of Taz winning, and he knew that could be used to help build where he was going with Taz.

Taz at the time was upset with comments made by Varelans.

He said that from the start, Heyman had told him Varelans had agreed to do the job. He said Varelans appeared apprehensive about doing it, acting like he didn't know what the plans were for him. He said Varelans had told him he thought it would be a slow build-up rather than doing the match three weeks after the angle.

He said in the one workout session that had at the ECW school, that Varelans had to be taught how to properly apply a front headlock and Perry Satullo (Saturn), the other coach at the school said that trap fighting (which Varelans was billed as a black belt in when he first arrived in UFC, fighters were often give fake records and credentials in the early UFCs) must mean that if you get in a fight, you're trapped.

"He doesn't know how to do anything. He's clumsy. Taz could have eaten him up,” Satullo said.

Taz said in their match that Varelans left him several openings to tear him up.

"In a straight shoot, he was wide open at all times.” Taz said at the time.

Taz said the fact there were several heels around the ring during the match was because it was ECW vs. UFC and they wanted to show ECW heels as being unified behind him.

"I don't need anyone to defend me. I've lost fights before, but that kid can't beat me."

Both Taz, who wrestled for two years at the University of Massachusetts and one year at C.W. Post, and Heyman, said that Varelans was offered the opportunity to do a shoot but turned it down. Taz said it was in a conversation between the two when Varelans was unhappy about doing the job, and he said he'd go to Paul and see if they could both get more money because what they were going to make wasn't enough to do a shoot.

He said Varelans said that it was okay. Heyman said it was in a phone conversation that all three were on. Taz said he can see why the UFC people like Varelans, because he's a big guy with a good look, he's a wild puncher and he can take a good punch, and said that he doesn't want to say that Varelans was afraid of him, only that Varelans said he wasn't here to do a shoot.

"I've seen him and he definitely doesn't have a glass jaw

I wouldn't be this hot if he didn't make the silly comments about me being up to his waist. My size has nothing to do with it. His size is irrelevant. We're all the same size on the mat. He was wide open so many times in the match

The only reason I'm bitter is because he's crying the blues."

“Very sad to hear this,” said Peter Senerchia (Taz) about Varelans death this past week. “Had a match in ECW with Paul. He was a great guy, big, strong tough SOB. Condolences and thoughts with his family.”

“I just felt he was really a nice guy,” he later said. “I got to know him a little bit leading up to the match talking business with im and he genuinely was just a real sweetheart, but yet a killer.”

 

Edited by The Natural
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  • 3 weeks later...

Last week I spotted a brand new grey and black TapouT hoodie with tags on eBay so ordered it and arrived today with the AEW Logo Premium Varsity Zip Hoodie for my birthday. It's a rare style of US import when TapouT was an MMA brand. Hard to get them now since TapouT was relaunched in 2015 and new with tags on.

My MMA clothing:

UFC red and black Sherpa full zip hoodie.

UFC grey Sherpa full zip hoodie.

UFC beanie hat.

TapouT grey tribal full zip hoodie.

TapouT black and grey full zip hoodie.

TapouT black with white trim shirt.

TapOuT green shirt.

I had two UFC shirts, three TapouT shirts, a TapouT pullover hoodie and black TapouT top but got rid of them.

Looking forward to see what UFC and Venum come up with.

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  • 3 weeks later...

I like it. Dana White says the UFC/Venum deal starts 10th of April, UFC Vegas 23 headlines by Darren Till vs. Marvin Vettori. Sure we'll get some brighter colours as well.

Edited by The Natural
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2 hours ago, AxB said:

Maybe the white shorts will actually be white now.

Got on my wick. Reebok's shit.

Miss the time before Reebok came along: Anderson Silva's black and yellow, Rich Franklin's brown and pink. Chuck Liddell's blue with white icicles. The days of TapouT, Bad Boy and Venum. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 2/22/2021 at 10:18 AM, The Natural said:

Last week I spotted a brand new grey and black TapouT hoodie with tags on eBay so ordered it and arrived today with the AEW Logo Premium Varsity Zip Hoodie for my birthday. It's a rare style of US import when TapouT was an MMA brand. Hard to get them now since TapouT was relaunched in 2015 and new with tags on.

My MMA clothing:

UFC red and black Sherpa full zip hoodie.

UFC grey Sherpa full zip hoodie.

UFC beanie hat.

TapouT grey tribal full zip hoodie.

TapouT black and grey full zip hoodie.

TapouT black with white trim shirt.

TapOuT green shirt.

I had two UFC shirts, three TapouT shirts, a TapouT pullover hoodie and black TapouT top but got rid of them.

Looking forward to see what UFC and Venum come up with.

I spotted a brand new TapouT hoodie with tags on eBay last week and it came today. Four people were watching it as I ordered it. It's a thick one, grey with black and white TapouT logo. Pleasantly surprised at how padded it is. Didn't expect that. £29:99 with free postage when the RRP is...£79:99. Get in!

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16 hours ago, The Natural said:

I spotted a brand new TapouT hoodie with tags on eBay last week and it came today. Four people were watching it as I ordered it. It's a thick one, grey with black and white TapouT logo. Pleasantly surprised at how padded it is. Didn't expect that. £29:99 with free postage when the RRP is...£79:99. Get in!

164529573_4545094408840226_2025637637118

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2 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Doesn’t sound like the roster got a good payout from that Reebok deal. 

Here's the thing about these outfitting deals: Everything is going to based on what these companies feel like they get out of these fighters. Did they get $40 million of business of the UFC? They're not going to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a company and then come away with a pittance. And for what it's worth, based on what I've seen in Bellator over the last several years, the sponsor market has basically bottomed out. It some of the same sponsors that were around pre-2015 and some I guess smaller companies trying to gain a foothold. All the sponsors that were expected to flood into other companies basically didn't do so. They either died or got out of MMA altogether. It would be intriguing to see what the pay outs would be for Bellator if they ran a similar number of shows a year. I would highly doubt it's close to 5 or 6 million a year in this market. 

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6 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Here's the thing about these outfitting deals: Everything is going to based on what these companies feel like they get out of these fighters. Did they get $40 million of business of the UFC? They're not going to pour hundreds of millions of dollars into a company and then come away with a pittance. And for what it's worth, based on what I've seen in Bellator over the last several years, the sponsor market has basically bottomed out. It some of the same sponsors that were around pre-2015 and some I guess smaller companies trying to gain a foothold. All the sponsors that were expected to flood into other companies basically didn't do so. They either died or got out of MMA altogether. It would be intriguing to see what the pay outs would be for Bellator if they ran a similar number of shows a year. I would highly doubt it's close to 5 or 6 million a year in this market. 

If it's the same sponsors that were around pre-2015, and they're still willing to pay the fighters and UFC fighters are getting paid significantly less because of Reebok and Venum, why is an apparel deal better for them? I don't know what the current state of sponsorships is in Bellator MMA, but the fighters who used to fight in UFC but moved to Bellator did say that it's a lot better for them that they have their sponsorships back. $40 million over five years when you have a roster of up to 600 MMA fighters is nothing. 

Edited by TheVileOne
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30 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

If it's the same sponsors that were around pre-2015, and they're still willing to pay the fighters and UFC fighters are getting paid significantly less because of Reebok and Venum, why is an apparel deal better for them?

The problem is I highly doubt that's the case. American Ethanol is still around. There is maybe like a few others. I think Hayabusa might still be around. I would have to watch a few Bellator shows to find the ones I remember. However, the clothing ones are mostly gone. Bad Boy, MMA Elite, Head Rush, Pretorian, Booster, Cage Fighter, etc.

Moreover, with Bellator having less visibility, the money definitely would not be same. I think for the few who have names (like a Cris Cyborg or a Phil Davis), the money would be similar. However, if you were just a guy in UFC, it's not likely you would get paid the same for a Bellator fight as you would a UFC fight. Like I remember Sam Sicilia having a fight in Bellator where he was just wearing almost blank vale tudo shorts. And that's a guy who had like televised UFC fights. 

I think the UFC banning sponsors pretty much separated who wanted to be in the UFC business and the ones who wanted to be in the MMA business. I don't think it's a coincidence that companies like Venum, Monster Energy, and I guess Hayabusa are still around whereas a bunch of companies from the past aren't.  

Quote

$40 million over five years when you have a roster of up to 600 MMA fighters is nothing. 

The thing is, in a corporate mindset, that's a lot when you can name maybe 50-70 UFC fighters off the top of your head. What are the other 540 fighters worth in sponsorship if the other folks subsidize the company? The thing is unfortunately, sponsorship is a privilege in fighting despite it being looked at as just something fighters have a right to. I remember there was a period with HBO where unless you were an Oscar De La Hoya or someone on that level, you weren't allow to advertise ANYTHING on their airwaves. I dunno if you remember the GoldenPalace.com era where guys had the giant temporary black tattoos on their back. However, they would make fighters cover that up or just acknowledge ON AIR that someone was advertising an illegal or banned sponsor (which was funny).

So to me, the Reebok deal (and all the deals that follow) is basically a sign of the times and where the sport was headed. And unfortunately, I think that's where even as independent contractors, that's not something you would be even able to negotiate. You would be contracted to fight, but you're not contracted to be a walking billboard. That's just something that's basically seen as a luxury. 

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So basically, Venum is doing $6-9 million a year like Reebok (new fighters are making $500 more and champions around $2k more). The only difference would be you have to get your mouthpieces cleared if they have images on them that aren't a UFC logo, any names of family members, or flags.

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