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Secret Santo Holiday Season 2020


Matt D

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@Matt D Considering all the awesome stuff you've watched and noting one of your blind spots being Joshi I hope this does you well.  It is a long match and if needed I can see to find a shorter one that works.  But it is considered a 5 star match and one that is apparently recommended by many.  So here's Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue from 1995.

 

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Spoiler

ECCW!

Masked Man out first, with some very 80's action movie theme music! (gives me super dragon vibes from his robe)

Ref out second, followed by the champ! who looks like an amazing red meets MIA Rey Mysterio meets Grandmaster Sexahh cosplayer. He is over like rover, the crowd loves this guy

Ring Anouncer declares non title.

The Japanese Man is Asian Cooger.  The Cosplayer is Scotty Mac.

The camera angle makes them look about 3 inches shorter and 20 lbs lighter than they probably are.

Arm wringer from the Cooger that gets reversed and i am in love with the basic testing and feeling out.  sholver block leap frog drop down pancake!

Cooger is workin heel, and slides out between Scotty's legs and is in control on the outside with a fat man style springboard flip dive. (slow and careful but full body crushing)

Back in the ring and we get the perfect sitting neck breaker and two feet to the face that was a bit stiff.

The groans coming from Cooger are Lex Luger levels of cheese.
Scotty with soem fun offense including a crazy ass springboard that crushes the Cooger.

A nice sequence outside ends with an Enzuguri that flips Scotty Mac and they are using the outside coz the rting seems tiny.

Springboard outside in leg drop gets 2 for the Cooger and some appluse from the audiance.  An overly contrived kick is hit, the follow up missed, and Scotty lands teh springboard missile dropkick!.

Big ole body slam and Scotty heads to the top with a twisting headbutt?!?! that only gets 2, and Cooger is still Oofin!

Acid Drop type sprinboard bulldog gets one lil dude in the audiance to chant holy shit.

Cooger with the throat slash and then the decapatating leg drop from outside in on poor Scotty Mac.

A Chair pile has started and i feel bad for the ring crew.
Cooger with teh springboard senton from the ring to the floor!
Cooger is playing furniture mover and sets up the chair pile some more... a suplex from insideout?!!?! countered and Cooger flips into the chair pile!

SCotty chant breaks out and the little Mac is runnin wild! he hits a headscicors and some young vampire in training is like "MAKE HIM BLEED!"

BIG body slam #2!
Mac with the springboard Leg drop for 2~! 

The single camera shoot is kinda neat.

Mac Hand Spring Elbow Countered into German Countered into Super Kick for 2!

Ref gets crushed in the corner, double clothes line, and two dudes hit the heart attack on poor Scotty Mac.

Fisherman buster gets the Dub. 

 

Just my thoughts on a Mac vs a Cooger...

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7 hours ago, Morganti said:

Double Posts incoming.

First, for @El Gran Gordi

The Beer is Sacred

or for the belt!

 

@Morgantiyou hit a bullseye by giving me these matches. 

I have written and talked about my love for Osaka Pro ad nauseam, here and elsewhere, and will continue to do so.  Here's part of what I said back in the March 2020 Secret Santo thread (right under where you posted the "don't spill your beer" match as a bonus:

My eldest daughter is 8 years old (she's 9 now). She has been doing ballet (her choice) for literally half her life. Yesterday, we were watching the DVD from her ballet company's big year-end extravaganza. They had some comedy ballet performers from Tokyo as special guests. Their comedy style mostly involves subverting the tropes of ballet, and as my daughter watched it and laughed I felt proud. At 8 years old she understands ballet well enough to get when the tropes are being subverted.

What blew my mind about this match (The Ebessan vs Kushinbo Kamen 2 out of 3 falls match) was that a lot of the comedy is about subverting the common, often subtle, tropes of Japanese pro wrestling. And there is a huge audience (in what I now recognize as Osaka Jo Hall) reacting to and playing along with it every step of the way. This crowd understands pro wrestling the way my daughter understands ballet! 

"These are my people!" I though. I desperately wanted to be a part of that.

I have now been "a part of that" for over a decade. I can honestly, literally, say that comedy wrestling changed my life.

I think it's safe to say that particular match had a huge influence on Freshly Squeezed Orange Cassidy and Gentleman Jervis as well. 

The "don't spill your beer" match is exactly the kind of thing that the Osaka Pro wrestlers used to do in their midweek shows back when they were running their home arena every day: Add one ridiculous element to a match and build everything around that. For example: Ebessan and Tigers Mask once based a match around an escalating argument about the best ramen toppings. With Cassidy and Cabana, I get the same sense that they are joyfully amping up the "degree of difficulty" by adding that nutso premise to the basic match structure. They (and Bryce Remsberg) are incredibly creative in the ways that they put the "haven't spilled a drop" in peril. Cassidy's selling of Cabana's chops is particularly effective in that regard. The crowd are amazing, reacting to everything with perfect timing. The guy yelling "He has a family!" during Cassidy's zero-impact strike combo got one of the biggest laughs out of me. The ending plays into the whole ridiculous story just perfectly.

With the Gentleman Jervis match, I was most entertained by the contrast in their two characters. Cottonbelly's hyperactive energy and freely-given hugs juxtaposed against Cassidy's lackadaisical hands-in-pockets shtick. Once again, the crowd were tremendous. I got another huge laugh when they politely changed their "Holy s#*t!" chant to "Holy poop!" so as not to offend the polite Gentleman. Jervis gently rocking Orange to sleep, and subsequently completely subverting expectations when he goes looking for plunder under the ring? What can I say? It filled my heart with joy. I don't think the roll-up ending was the best possible pay-off for this story, but that's a minor quibble. 

At one point, during the WrestleCircus Sideshow Championship match, the crowd chants "This is wrestling!" 

It might give conniptions and a case of the howling fantods to people like JR and Jim Cornette, and various pro wrestling purist grandpas, and several of my online friends and acquaintances including people on this very site... but those fans are correct. Pro wrestling, and pro wrestling fans, have become self-aware. Everyone is a smart fan now. It isn't mainly about cheering for the good guy and booing the bad guy any more, nor is it about re-affirming our ethnic identity, or ripping off naive rural gamblers. It's mainly about feeling like part of a community and having a good time now, I think. Matches like this, where we are not just in on the joke but actively part of the joke, are useful in affirming that sense of community. They are not merely an acceptable part of what pro wrestling has become, they are an important (and perhaps essential) part of it. 

 

 

Edited by El Gran Gordi
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23 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

@Matt D Considering all the awesome stuff you've watched and noting one of your blind spots being Joshi I hope this does you well.  It is a long match and if needed I can see to find a shorter one that works.  But it is considered a 5 star match and one that is apparently recommended by many.  So here's Manami Toyota vs Kyoko Inoue from 1995.

 

So, this is funny.

I'm almost afraid to type this.

I came into this expecting to hate this, or maybe just resent it a lot. No insult to Nick. It's not on him. This is a WON 5* match that won match of the year in the Observer. Guy has known me for a decade, but how much do any of us actually know each other? That's part of why we do projects like this, right?

It's a match I always avoided. I have a general sense of Toyota being as far from my sort of wrestler as possible (in that go-go-go super athletic Kurt Angle undervaluing selling vein). But we take our medicine here with this project, when given it.

My main knowledge of it are threads like this:

https://forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/14562-1995-05-07-ajw-gtop-manami-toyota-vs-kyoko-inoue/

When Loss and Ditch and JDW and Phil and Tim (Evans) are all against a match, that's sort of a broad range of voices, and all voices I listen to and respect, even if I'm not 100% with any of them. That said, keep in mind that those guys were all watching it in the context of a Yearbook Project, and they had even more reason to resent this match than I did.

So, maybe it's because I came in expecting to really dislike it, my expectations were low and I ended up liking it.

I thought, within the context of the style, it was fairly measured. There was a basic story/throughline of Inoue being able to take/control a lot of the match, but not being able to hit her big moves to put Toyota away and Toyota able to come back but not able to string together enough moves (usually because she had to escalate to hurt Inoue enough and then paid for it) to put Inoue away. She'd be able to control her with holds but not wear her enough down to hit the bombs. Inoue's back selling maybe needed a better bit of introduction but it was excellent throughout the match. They did a good job of keeping moves locked early and slowly introducing them throughout the match. A move would be teased and only utilized successfully fifteen minutes later. A lot of the offense that was hit clearly and cleanly was of a lower level even when it was hit multiple times in a row.

I was checking five minute intervals and there WERE times I wanted them to go home, though to their credit, I was ok with them not doing so until the 40 minute or even the 45 minute mark. I kept wondering "Well, is this the moment this is going to lose me?" and it never fully did. I was expecting them to drop everything, and maybe, maybe, if given her choice, Toyota would have dropped everything. That's the thing. I care about intent and I can't fully give her credit, given my understanding of her as a wrestler, because I think so much of what made this work in the stretch was her being unable to turn it up to a different gear. She was legitimately exhausted and thus she had to wrestle like she was exhausted and it meant the match never went off the rails.

There were issues (like Toyota having her back worked over early and never actually selling it), but the blown spots for instance, added to the match more than anything else to me. They read like exhaustion or overexertion to me. Look, I watched a death match for New Footage Friday last week, and I made the point that the blood and gore and weapons use are a rudimentary tool to help spurn the suspension of disbelief. Occasionally chaotic flubs, given the right setting, can do the same. I think that's been the case with a lot of Sasha Banks' matches in WWE, especially the gimmick ones. It makes it easier and not harder to be immersed in the moment because it somehow feels more "real". As an aside, Toyota's flexibility while in holds does the same. The ONE bit of selling-dropping by Inoue, when she hulked up towards the end, worked because it felt like very limited adrenaline in a way that so rarely does. It added instead of subtracting, and by the end, they both could barely move.

I realize I didn't watch this in context, but I imagine it's actually a better match OUT of context. The spots were novel to me. Toyota's speed was novel to me. I wasn't comparing it to other matches from 95. It's no Hennig vs Bock, but it's something to be appreciated and not reviled, I think. Yes, it's an amazing athletic accomplishment, but so much of it is way more measured than you'd expect. I think most of the credit for that is on Inoue and the decision for her to take so much of the match, but I'd have to see more matches with her to know for sure.

Mostly real time notes below:

Spoiler

Comparative advantage: Toyota flexibility/speed + balance. Selling screams through hair. Back focus. Two times she uses speed for hope spots. Distance is bad for inoue but she needs something more. Gets caught trying to springboard. Toyota drops back selling.——Explosive abandon and flexibility on offense. Death lock elbow drops and deep bridge.Inoue hope spots are strength. Love the build to the rolling cradle.——Top rope German is first big bomb. Transition ? Gets her to sell but goes for too much too soon. Gets kicked off ropes but dodged dive. Real transition. To outside.Can’t unlock string of moves though and takes bad risks.

First fight over moves. First time tiger enters, first attempt at Japanese Ocean Cyclone Suplex leads to a transition. Ocean Cyclone Suplex is teased at 20 minute mark and unlocked at 36. After failing multiple times to hit her bomb (mainly due to her hurt back), Inoue hits it at the 44 minute mark.

Inoue can't hit bombs so has to use holds to contain. Real sense that she needs to wear her down.

When Inoue goes to the lightning well, it doesn't work out for her, but Toyota can go to it too often which unlocks new moves for Inoue.

Inoue sells her back more than is maybe warranted. Toyota drops it too often. By the 20 minute mark, the cumulative damage is real though. Toyota can get one lightning quick move off but can't always follow up. Inoue follows up moves with holds. Toyota tries to follow bombs with bombs and it fails for her.

It's not until the 30 minute mark that Toyota can string moves together, and even then, it's just 2-3.

Memorable set pieces on the floor. Giant swing. Table that doesn't break. Pile drivers (33 min mark). Curious if the last will be a turning point.

If they went home around the 40 minute mark, this thing would be great. The JOC Suplex had been unlocked Inoue had teased her sub multiple times. The stage was set. Inoue winning at exactly the 40 minute mark after the missed moonsault press would have worked for me (though maybe Toyota needed just a tiny bit more first?).

More great visuals: Inoue scooping her up on the top for the power slam.

Both of them falling out of the ring at the 45 minute mark feels like a good and timely transition to the last part of the match. I could have lived with a double countout here (but again, a little more Toyota agency to cause it).

The JOC Suplex at 48 minute mark almost feels like another transition to something else. They both share a moment of exhaustion after before Inoue dumps Toyota out. I know they're building to a draw but we're 50 minutes in and it doesn't feel like they've gotten to a finishing stretch yet. The match is still building and escalating. Now we're in a mutual exhaustion phase instead of a "ignore everything and go full speed" phase.

Even as Toyota throws herself at Inoue repeatedly, it's the action of a desperate madwoman at the end of her rope. It doesn't feel like she's dropping anything. She's obvious exhausted and in agony from her body language, and it's probably just the real truth which provides constraints.

At the 53 minute mark, Inoue hulks up. It's a measured hulk up, full of adrenaline and excitement but still holding the back occasionally. Going for clotheslines instead of bombs. When she does, it fails the first time and she can only hit a jackknife instead of her bigger one for the second and then she's worn out.

Whether intentional or not, Toyota is physically diminished. She almost kills herself on a German off the ropes. She can't hold the bridge on the next one. She can't get Inoue off the ropes.

By the 58 minute mark, Toyota is just trying to throw herself at Inoue however she can. They're so explosive and dynamic and they're wrestling like people whose joints have locked up. True or not, it's impactful to watch.

Inoue makes a lot of tactical mistakes here including not going for her submission at various times. Rolling Toyota back in after the DDT off the apron (Which is really more like both of them falling, so it doesn't feel like escalation so much as a continued physical fizzling) instead of hoping for a countout, feels like a big one. Even though she hits her bomb afterwards, she's too exhausted to follow up in time.

The last image is Toyota trying a flipping power bomb off the top but barely able to move and both wrestlers getting hung up in the ropes as the bell rings.

The handholding at the end with both of them basically paralyzed is a great visual too.

 

Edited by Matt D
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1 hour ago, Matt D said:

I came into this expecting to hate this, or maybe just resent it a lot. No insult to Nick. It's not on him. This is a WON 5* match that won match of the year in the Observer. Guy has known me for a decade, but how much do any of us actually know each other? That's part of why we do projects like this, right?

It's a match I always avoided. I have a general sense of Toyota being as far from my sort of wrestler as possible (in that go-go-go super athletic Kurt Angle undervaluing selling vein). But we take our medicine here with this project, when given it.

My main knowledge of it are threads like this:

https://forums.prowrestlingonly.com/topic/14562-1995-05-07-ajw-gtop-manami-toyota-vs-kyoko-inoue/

When Loss and Ditch and JDW and Phil and Tim (Evans) are all against a match, that's sort of a broad range of voices, and all voices I listen to and respect, even if I'm not 100% with any of them. That said, keep in mind that those guys were all watching it in the context of a Yearbook Project, and they had even more reason to resent this match than I did.

So, maybe it's because I came in expecting to really dislike it, my expectations were low and I ended up liking it.

Considering that you liked this more than you initially thought due to all that I feel glad that I picked one that ended up being worthwhile.  It's been forever since I've actively seen matches go so long and for all I know I may start getting antsy when it hits a certain point.  But that'll be determined when I hopefully see it this weekend.

As for your pick I have it queued up but I just need the time to watch and review.  Everybody's trying to get their work crap in before vacation time which makes it tricky to get much done.  I'm hoping by Thursday or Friday to get it done.

Edited by NikoBaltimore
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Jerry Blackwell vs Timothy Thatcher

This was the classic tale of endearing goofball vs serious technician. You have the plaid masked with mustache come out first and get everyone laughing. The crowd was already having a good time, they seemed lively. The best part of Blackwell’s speech was it wasn’t just jokes, but actually hyping up Thatcher as being a legitimate badass. If you were unfamiliar with him, you got the gist of both characters before the match.

The heart of the match is that Thatcher is a vastly superior fighter and while Blackwell did have the weight advantage that he used a few times in headlocks, was ultimately overmatched, but still an endearing silly man. Blackwell’s silliness got to Timothy and he started to appear more aggressive. Through this anger, Thatcher was no longer the calculating grappler and was now the emotional hard striker. This gave Blackwell an opportunity to fight back. It was still Thatcher’s advantage, but now Blackwell has a chance.

I enjoy these Round style matches. It creates a dynamic for a different psychology of storytelling. Almost like chapters of a book. This match was very laid out for each round having a defining theme leading to character development. Blackwell going from goofball to fighting back with a chance and Thatcher going from smooth wrestler to livid animal.

Thanks @AxB! I’m gonna hit you up soon for more recs on this company/ style. I had a great time watching this.

——

Hey @Curt McGirt. Posting my gaps and then bellow I’ll post your match.

Gap blurb! Off the top of my head, a small list of the many things I know little about.

- 80’s Southernish territories

- I need to see more Buddy Rose, I feel

- UK past and present 

- Osaka Pro could be fun

- NJPW or AJPW since the pandemic started

- Neat death matches

But honestly, just recommend me something you really enjoy that you think I might dig. 

—-

Chessman vs Pagano

From the recent Triplemania. I haven’t had a chance to watch yet but I’m hearing fun things.

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Pretty sure I've seen this. Both guys work like maniacs back then. If you've seen it, I also found a lumberjack match with Matt Borne and the first ever Dog Collar match against Killer Tim Brooks that I've definitely seen both of. 

I tried to find Zeus/Miyahara from this year to no avail. I also thought of Southern stuff but that is pretty broad so I blanked.

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58 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Jerry Blackwell vs Timothy Thatcher

This was the classic tale of endearing goofball vs serious technician. You have the plaid masked with mustache come out first and get everyone laughing. The crowd was already having a good time, they seemed lively. The best part of Blackwell’s speech was it wasn’t just jokes, but actually hyping up Thatcher as being a legitimate badass. If you were unfamiliar with him, you got the gist of both characters before the match.

The heart of the match is that Thatcher is a vastly superior fighter and while Blackwell did have the weight advantage that he used a few times in headlocks, was ultimately overmatched, but still an endearing silly man. Blackwell’s silliness got to Timothy and he started to appear more aggressive. Through this anger, Thatcher was no longer the calculating grappler and was now the emotional hard striker. This gave Blackwell an opportunity to fight back. It was still Thatcher’s advantage, but now Blackwell has a chance.

I enjoy these Round style matches. It creates a dynamic for a different psychology of storytelling. Almost like chapters of a book. This match was very laid out for each round having a defining theme leading to character development. Blackwell going from goofball to fighting back with a chance and Thatcher going from smooth wrestler to livid animal.

Thanks @AxB! I’m gonna hit you up soon for more recs on this company/ style. I had a great time watching this.

——

Hey @Curt McGirt. Posting my gaps and then bellow I’ll post your match.

Gap blurb! Off the top of my head, a small list of the many things I know little about.

- 80’s Southernish territories

- I need to see more Buddy Rose, I feel

- UK past and present 

- Osaka Pro could be fun

- NJPW or AJPW since the pandemic started

- Neat death matches

But honestly, just recommend me something you really enjoy that you think I might dig. 

—-

Chessman vs Pagano

From the recent Triplemania. I haven’t had a chance to watch yet but I’m hearing fun things.

Octopus, my dude, THIS is (Crusher) Jerry Blackwell:

I'm pretty sure the masked goofball is called Jerry Bakewell (and also, I think, William Gaylord and/or Stingray Stevenson).

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Pagano vs. Chessman, Caballera vs. Caballera 

Chessman shows up wearing MF Doom's mask?! Weird. I also have to mention I do not approve of wearing red facepaint when you know you're gonna be bleeding, even if it is your usual color. As I mentioned here on first watch I noticed that Pagano not only has a tattoo of LA Park (and I think some other luchadors) but he has Jesus Malverde on his trunks, which made me think his gimmick is actually a Juggalo that works for a cartel. AAA is using the six sided ring (I've seen the four sided last year which is why I mention it) and we have some tables and chairs set up outside along with an old green beater pickup in the background by the announce desk for... reasons. 

Neither of these guys are noted for being particularly great luchadors and I've personally never really been impressed with any of the Pagano I've seen, but this is an apuestas so they're gonna bring the fight to each other. They start from the jump, no feeling out just straight to it. In moments Hugo Savinovich is already yelling "BRUTAL, BRUTAL!" BTW he is quite an asset to this match for the English speakers because he takes the time to switch languages and explain rules and comment on the action. I don't think I realized it when I watched this the first time but there are a shitload of topes in this match. I think they hit the first four (!) within about as many minutes. The good thing is they keep escalating as the match goes on. Somebody eats a cookie sheet on one, Pagano crushes this tiny ladder they bust out (which reminds me of the one Swoggle had in WWE one time) with another, then Chessman goes face-first into a stack of four open chairs which looked completely insane. Lady Shani gets in on the action with Rey Escorpion slapping the piss out of her and then getting an assist powerbomb off the top. They keep elevating with both guys slamming each other off the top through tables (one looks like a spear and the other a powerbomb but they slop each up). Pagano makes the extremely stupid decision to bring the destroyed ladder in the ring and they both bump on it, risking being punctured by twisted metal.

I'll spoiler the finish for those who want to watch first.

Spoiler

Finally they brawl over to the truck, Chessman picks up a guitar... AND WIPES HUGO THE FUCK OUT WITH IT. It just completely comes out of nowhere, he turns and just blasts him, and Hugo blades!!! It's actually a smart move because while Hugo is screaming and bleeding they have a moment to climb up the backdrop above the truck, which conveniently has a table set up in the bed. Pagano hits White Noise from the structure down through the table and we have our winner, with Chessman getting loaded on a stretcher to go get scalped in the ring. They wrap up his ribs and he takes the first fistful of hair and just pitches it at Pagano in disgust. Great finish. 

That was a really fun spotfest. They never stopped moving the whole time, both guys bled, they stiffed each other with shots in between the dives; you can't really ask from more from a AAA main event with two limited performers. And bonus points go to Hugo living up to his Puerto Rican past! Hell of a fight here. 

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On 12/13/2020 at 8:50 AM, Six String Orchestra said:

@Smelly McUgly, I'm always up for some AWA. I'm exchange here is the main event of Triplemania from last night, Pagano vs Chessman in a Hair vs Hair match. Bonus points for the carny antics in the post match!

https://youtu.be/iBf15t3mWw0?t=2h53m45s

Hey, I was going to watch this match, but it's set to private. Is there another link to it that I can watch that you know of?

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Pagano vs. Chessman, Hair vs. Hair Match

OK, so thanks to @El Gran Gordi, I both have access to the match and know that someone else has reviewed it. I have not read that review, so feel free to skip this one if it's too similar.

I am not a lucha fan, really, but when lucha works for me, it's in a brawl with lots of punching and a bit of blood - that's lucha at its most accessible for me. I was especially hoping for something hate-filled since this was hair vs. hair. 

So, in the first couple of minutes, I got some Kevin Dunn-like camera shots - no shaking, but cuts at the weirdest times - and what felt like half-speed counters and high-risk moves. The stuff that should have been impactful, like the suicide dives x2 (with one headlong into a cookie sheet) felt sort of choreographed. That's not what I want out of a hate-filled brawl. The punches - bad. The dives - not really so impactful, even as dangerous as they were. And a few minutes in, I did actually get sick-making Kevin Dunn-level shaky cam on a corner dive. I'd like to assume that the cameraperson just tripped at an inopportune time, but I can't be sure. 

I must admit that here, I did something that I've not yet done during Secret Santo yet, which is to grab my DS5 and use the left stick to check how much time was left on the video. 27 minutes! 

Anyway, this match sort of picks up and we get suplexes into ladders and your typical plunder stuff, but this is like the most modern WWE match that you'd expect from this, all announcers yelling wildly at these obvious choreographed spots meant for massive pops. At this point, I'm not really reading "hate-filled grudge match" at all. 

I think this match is a great way to meditate on what I hate about the idea of grudge matches in 2020, at least as far as the WWE-ized style of grudge match, and really, I blame ECW. The legacy of ECW is grabbing cookie sheets and waffle irons and chairs and using them as commonly as a closed fist. That's turned into this form of grudge match that takes all the heat out of everything by being so plunder-filled that none of the plunder used feels like a unique tool of destruction. This can still work if you have the right workers with the right aura - that Nasty Boys vs. Cactus and Payne match I put up last Secret Santo thread works for me because all four of those guys have an innate "this dangerous sloppy brawler might accidentally kill someone" aura that comes out in matches like this. 

However, what happens in WWE-world is that this is the standard. All of their workers, most of whom can't pull this off because they don't have that innate aura, work this kind of match. Plunder, a few stupid dives that don't feel desperate at all because the whole thing feels paint-by-numbers, and yelling announcers to try and sell the whole thing as a true hate sink of a match. It's not like Magnum TA grabbing a shard of wood in his madness and jabbing it into Tully's eye because it's the culmination of months of anger and rage. It's full-on ECW plunder-filled excess except without the personalities to carry it. 

So, the reason I say that is that this match is WWE "hate-filled" plunder match with some stupid dives + interference + blood. I say this without hating on @Six String Orchestra (and I suspect that my take on this match will be soundly in the minority, actually, which I accept), but I found this match to be total shit, the worst kind of fucking culmination of what counts for a modern "brawl" in North American wrestling. Awful, awful, awful, and overlong besides. 

I would like to note for the record that I'm glad I watched this! That's not sarcasm. I feel like I learned something here, and I suspect that what this match showed is how wide ECW's reach is - and I'm could be wrong and someone with more experience with AAA or the Mexican scene in general will correct me and say that it was always this way in this company. But to me, this reads like a pointless, overly-choreographed, no-sense-of-danger grudge match that WWE would run (again, without the blood), and those come straight from ECW, which is the first company to get big enough on that style to leave a mark. 

Edited by Smelly McUgly
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7 hours ago, El Gran Gordi said:

Octopus, my dude, THIS is (Crusher) Jerry Blackwell:

I'm pretty sure the masked goofball is called Jerry Bakewell (and also, I think, William Gaylord and/or Stingray Stevenson).

I’m laughing at myself so hard right now. I was in the zone typing.

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Well, that was a tale of two cities. I will definitely agree that ECW had a serious (and seriously bad) influence on AAA, Konnan, and I guess you can throw "lucha extrema" in general in there though they take more influence from CZW. Trust me though that match could have been way worse. These days places like the Crash are having guys use flimsy boards instead of tables and Zona 23 is using actual doors. I thought it was entertaining because I think they looked sloppy enough to kill themselves, if not each other, and I knew that's what I was getting in the first place. Turned my brain off and enjoyed the bumps.

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Yeah, that match is much better. Punches, kicks, the bottle shot feels mean. It's also much shorter because hate-filled brawls where two guys are trying to kill each other shouldn't go long and be filled with contrived plundah spots. 

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@Smelly McUgly, no offense taken.  I saw your previous review of a brawl and I was curious what others on this board would make of Chessman-Pagano. Meltzer loved it, which I was a little surprised by.

I too find the modern grudge match to be hokey. Like, why even is there a truck with a table in it in the arena for any match? That one was worse than kendo sticks under the ring. At least those you can argue were placed there. When I see kendo sticks and tables I think of ECW's influence. I think the lack of crowds this year has really opened my eyes to how contrived certain spots and matches are.

Well this one went over better than when I gave Matt D Ospreay vs Shingo in the last secret santo. 

I'll have my review of the Road Warriors match in a few days. I anticipate it'll be night and day 

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