NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 15.

[Archibald]

This will be, I think, 4th failed hw title challenge by Sanada?

[Raziel]

NJPW doesn't usually do stretcher angles, So I'm guessing Tenzan got legit hurt and didn't just do a stretcher to put over Khan.

[The Natural]

My favourite side to Kota Ibushi when he has enough and goes into this zone. Still remember Kota Ibushi throwing really stiff punches/kicks to Shinsuke Nakamura at Wrestle Kingdom 9, Hiroshi Tanahashi pushing on through them in the G1 Climax 28 Final and on Kazuchika Okada at Wrestle Kingdom 14. It's like he says enough and bloody batters you.

[Craig H]

29 minutes ago, Archibald said:

This will be, I think, 4th failed hw title challenge by Sanada?

No, only his third, I think. Both prior challenges were against Okada.

[The Natural]

35 minutes ago, Archibald said:

This will be, I think, 4th failed hw title challenge by Sanada?

 

5 minutes ago, Craig H said:

No, only his third, I think. Both prior challenges were against Okada.

So we're not in Hirooki Goto territory yet ;).

Edited January 6, 2021 by The Natural

[Teflon Turtle]

So I'll probably have to come back later to give full thoughts on both nights, but since there has been some discussion about post-event promos and such, I wanted to quickly talk about something along those lines. It feels ridiculous to use the words "Tanahashi" and "underrated" in the same sentence, but is Tanahashi an underrated promo guy?

Virtually every time in 2020 that he (either on his own or responding to a question) has discussed what it has meant to him to be wrestling during the pandemic, dude has gotten emotional. Now...it could be Tana has just really been putting his acting boots on, or that wrestling actually means that much to him. Either way: his promos have been one those rare things that has helped me with suspension of disbelief, and has been instrumental in making me a bigger fan of Tana's work. If the tears are part of the act, it's still entirely in keeping with his character, maybe even more so now that he realizes he's on the downswing of his career. He's the most fitting wrestler in NJPW to convey such a message. He has been absolutely note-perfect.

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Teflon Turtle

[Raziel]

So, next round of title matches:

Ibushi/SANADA, Shingo/Tanahashi, Hiromu/SHO, GoD/Tekkers, Kanemaru/Despy vs Ishimori/ELP

Not bad for New Beginning only having 1 WK runback.

[Craig H]

That's also a hell of a good lineup as long as this new strain of COVID doesn't fuck things up.

[quackhell]

We are all super psyched for the epic BUSHI and Master Wato program right...right...anyone?

[Spontaneous]

Was hoping for Douki-Hiromu but Sho had a good BOTSJ. Most interested in Shingo-Tanahashi.

[The Natural]

2 hours ago, Raziel said:

So, next round of title matches:

Ibushi/SANADA, Shingo/Tanahashi, Hiromu/SHO, GoD/Tekkers, Kanemaru/Despy vs Ishimori/ELP

Not bad for New Beginning only having 1 WK runback.

Shingo Takagi vs. Hiroshi Tanahashi stands out the most to me.

[DangerMark]

I haven't watched much NJPW recently, and Night Two represents the first full NJPW show I've watched in some time.

To borrow a phrase from Dean in the old DVDRs, Jay White Died For Our Sins. I really enjoyed that match. I especially enjoyed him clawing at the belts after the pin. I also did like Red Shoes going missing some time between two and three and winding up half way up the guard rail. Maybe not being a regular viewer, I'm not as sick of Gedo's ringside shit as other people in this thread, but it took me three quarters of EVIL vs. SANADA to get sick of Dick Togo's ringside shit, although Togo redeemed himself with a high grade pratfall. (Also, Togo was quite possibly a better wrestler than Gedo ever was, but I suspect that's a debate for another thread)

I'm not sure I've seen a Taiji Ishimori match since the days of Los Sailor Boys, so I was not expecting a Stone Killer in a Predator mask. Also, Hiromu Takahashi is a beautiful man.

What the hell is Master Wato, and why did he look like such a lemon letting the heels break up a pin? He looks like a putz anyway.

[Craig H]

Wato has a shit gimmick with a shit name, but is a good worker. I don't know if Gedo gave Wato and Khan these gimmicks or if those guys came up with them on their own, but they fucking suck.

[Teflon Turtle]

The vibe I've been getting from both Wato and O-Khan is that they're gimmicks designed to appeal to kids. So...Bushiroad, maybe? To my eyes, they kind of stick out in NJPW now, and not in a good way. Great Muta, they're not.

Another note about who comes up with the gimmicks...I wish I could find the interview again, but Jay White once claimed that most of what he was doing was left up to him. Upon returning from excursion, he said NJPW came to him with "We're going to call you Switchblade. We want you to be 'razor sharp strong style,'" and not much else. 

Given what he turned in to, I'd have a tough time believing he didn't keep working on it with people like Gedo...but he made it sound like creating the character around the prompt was mostly on him. So, could be these guys are still mired in the "well, you gotta figure it out" phase.

[TheVileOne]

18 hours ago, Jiji said:

Sure, he's whiney but he's also human and relatable, especially during a pandemic where most of us have felt like we just worked 40 minutes with Ibushi trying to cave in our skulls and chests. He recognized that he gave everything he had and it wasn't good enough. Total heel move. 

It was relatable, but he was also insulting the fans, NJPW, and the media and blaming them for his loss. Didn't really quite feel like a heel on the cusp of a face turn. He was even pathetically yelling at people to help him and being rude about it, condescendingly demanding people help him walk off the stage like some pampered Tom Cruise type. Felt more like, "I lost! You should all feel sorry for me! Wah!"

[Jiji]

I agree. He was petulant to the Nth degree. But there was a wounded vulnerability that traditional heels in wrestling do not show. That's why I suggested it was the beginning of a transition to something beyond played out, boring BC bullshit. And how many heels ask (demand) for help like that? The grayness of the promo is why it was so great. There were overtones of heeldom but strong undertones of something more and something totally fascinating to me. I love Ibushi to bits but not even his ascent to god status has captured my emotions. This could be the first time I'm emotionally invested in NJPW since Kenny beat Okada at Dominion. I'd love to see Jay in AEW long-term but for now I want him to stay in NJPW to see how this plays out. It's also moving him away from the Kenny cosplay that he evolved from initially with the Switchblade character.

We'll be so lucky if that's not the promo of the year imo. It would take something along the lines of Moxley and Kingston again and even then, that is more traditional and less groundbreaking than this.

[Archibald]

I never liked much these "I made mistakes, I'm face now" promos so I'm ok if this is going to take some time till White breaks completely and realises who he actually is.

[kenyabaxterZXW]

[TheVileOne]

10 hours ago, Jiji said:

I agree. He was petulant to the Nth degree. But there was a wounded vulnerability that traditional heels in wrestling do not show. That's why I suggested it was the beginning of a transition to something beyond played out, boring BC bullshit. And how many heels ask (demand) for help like that? The grayness of the promo is why it was so great. There were overtones of heeldom but strong undertones of something more and something totally fascinating to me. I love Ibushi to bits but not even his ascent to god status has captured my emotions. This could be the first time I'm emotionally invested in NJPW since Kenny beat Okada at Dominion. I'd love to see Jay in AEW long-term but for now I want him to stay in NJPW to see how this plays out. It's also moving him away from the Kenny cosplay that he evolved from initially with the Switchblade character.

We'll be so lucky if that's not the promo of the year imo. It would take something along the lines of Moxley and Kingston again and even then, that is more traditional and less groundbreaking than this.

This does seem like we're in the long-term payoff going back to 2018 when Jay White first joined the Bullet Club. Even before that, it seemed like Jay White had turned a huge corner when Elite/Bullet Club/Omega tried to recruit them, he rejected it, and came off like a huge babyface. Not only that, White beat Omega clean just weeks after the Omega/Jericho match, which genuinely surprised me. So it did surprise me a little bit when White ended up joining Bullet Club anyway and fully turned heel when his rejection of BC felt like a big babyface establishing moment. 

I do agree he did show a remarkable amount of vulnerability here we don't usually see from heels as he got all his dreams summarily crushed.

[The Natural]

I think Shingo Takagi vs. Jeff Cobb was my favourite match of Wrestle Kingdom 15.

[Craig H]

3 hours ago, The Natural said:

I think Shingo Takagi vs. Jeff Cobb was my favourite match of Wrestle Kingdom 15.

I think the best match was Ibushi vs White, but my favorite is also Shingo vs Cobb. I re-watched it again this morning and it's so awesome. 

[Web Conn]

I started writing a review of Night 1 and the Rambo review got away from me and in an attempt keep my posts as short as possible I'm posting the review of The Pre Show Rambo first then the rest of night one 

New Japan Rambo - Formally New Japan Rumble, this is a Royal Rumble two people start then another person enters after a time interval, over the top rope elimination etc. Well Actually I was wrong it's not only over the top eliminations but also pinfalls, submissions and knockouts so it's more of derivative of Lucha Undergound's Aztec Warfare match which is itself a derivative of the Royal Rumble. The Final Four are gonna meet at Night 2 to become the Official KOPW Champion or some nonsense I don't know. The Crown Jewel of Bullet Club, Chase Owens and "Stone Pitbull" Ishii are the first two entrants.  I was expecting or more so hoping for Ishii to kick Chase Owens' ass for a minute back it was more back and forth then I would have liked but Entrant #3 is Minoru Suzuki and Owens calls for a time out rolls out of the ring and waits on the outside even he anticipates an ass kicking. Minoru and Ishii immediately beat the hell out of each other Owens runs in tries to get involved gets dropped, Ishii and Minoru continue assaulting one another, Chase gets dropped again, Owens gets frustrated starts throwing forearms only to be dropped by two forearms for his efforts. Enrant #4 Yuji Nagata, Blue Justice! Nagata wore a mask, blue of course to the ring. If only more of us could follow Nagata's example.  Ishii Beats up Chase Owens as Minoru and Nagata go to war with each other. Henare is Entrant #5. Henare initiates contact with Ishii, everyone else catches their breathe's as these two battle it out. Henare hits an impressive stalling vertical suplex on Ishii and all hell breaks loose again. Entrant #6 Hirooki Goto. Minoru and Nagata are slugging it out on the apron and Henare knock them off, Nagata and Minoru have been eliminated. Nagata and Minoru fight each other to the back, henare and Ishii continue focusing on each other and Goto stomps Chase out in the corner. Tokyo Pimp Yujiro Takahashi is Entrant #7. Pimp comes to his Blizz Clizz Brethren's aid setting his sights on Goto as Ishii and Henare continue to beat each other up, Henare spears Pimp then goes back to trading strikes with Ishii. Henare goes for a big boot but Ishii ducks it and flips him over the top rope. Henare has been eliminated. Pimp and Owens continue their two on one assault on Goto. Yoshi Hashi with his stupid fucking staff is Entrant #8. It's 3 on 2 Chaos vs Bullet Club and the babyfaces have the advantage forget Canada, Japan is bizarro land! Entrant #9 Toji Makabe. Makabe cleans house on Owens and Pimp as Goto, Yoshi and Ishii collect themselves, Goto and Yohi get to their feet hanging on the ropes and Makabe double lariats them out of the ring and almost goes over himself he did go over but caught himself on the apron. Yoshi Hashi and Hirooki Goto have been Eliminated. Makabe turns his attention to Ishii but Pimp attacks him from behind. Clizz try to throw Makabe over the top but Ishii comes to Makabe's aid. Battle Royals tend to make strange bedfellows. Entrant #10 Honma. Get ready for some headbutts. There was only one headbutt a diving one on Pimp to thrawt his attempt on Honma's GBH partner, Honma. Ishii tries to toss Makabe over but Honma stops him then he starts to battle with his partner. What a twist! Entrant #11 Tenzan. Honma and Tenzan double team Makabe and toss him over the top rope. Makabe has been Eliminated. Honma turns his sights on Tenzan as Ishii beats up Owens. Typical Rumble fare of everyone fighting each other. Entrant #12 Rocky Romero. Kevin Kelly telegraphed this on commentary bringing up occasionally that Romero was suppose to be on the broadcast team and was missing. for pinfalls and submission being legal everyone has gone over the top rope so far but there have been pin attempts so there's that.. Romero targets Honma. Owens has an elimantion scare but gets back in the ring by the skin of his teeth. Entrant #13 Douki. Rings getting full with 7. Rocky and Douki have a mini match as everyone cathes their breath besides Tenzan for whom Ishii has in a headlock. Douki uses a lead pipe on Rocky and the ref DQ'a him. weird but ok. Douki has been eliminated. Douki chokes Rocky with the pipe as the ref frantically tries to get him to stop. Entrant #14 Sho. Douki is still choking Rocky with that pipe, Sho enters the ring and spears Douki, Douki rolls out of the ring. Sho checks on Rocky. better teammate than Honma thats for sure. Entrant #15 Bushi. Pimp charges Bushi, Bushi ducks pulling down the top rope with him and Pimp goers straight over to the floor. Yujiro Takahashi has been eliminated. Owens goes after Bushi as presumably a form of retribution for his fallen stablemate. Bushi dives through the middle ropes onto Yujiro. Entrant #16 Tiger Mask IV.  Tiger Mask hits Rocky Romero with a crossbody and focuses his attention on the once Black Tiger. Tiger Mask must feel the essence of his biggest advisory instinctually. Entrant #17 Bad Luck Fale.  7 competitors in the ring and Fale makes 8. Ring is pretty full. Ishii tries to suplex Fale he can't. Fale and Owens toss him over the top but Owens goes with him and both end up on the apron Fale knocks Ishii off. Ishii has been Eliminated. Everyone is kinda just doing the rumble spots stomps and axe handles and forearms smashes and the like. Entrant #18 Gabriel Kidd. Bushi who is still outside the ring starts swinging on Kidd when he gets ringside. Honma has been eliminated off camera. Bushi wont let Kidd enter the ring. Camera stays on Kidd and Bushi and Tenzan is tossed out off camera as well. Tenzan has been eliminated. Sho, Rocky and Tiger Mask who must have already forgotten that he didn't like the cut of Rocky's jib all try to eliminate Fale together but then Chase Owens comes to the aid of his Blizz Clizz Brother. Gaberial Kidd is still not in the ring. Entrant #19 Yuya Uemura. Uemura comes to the aid of his fellow Young Lion, Kidd on the outside and they proceed to double team Bushi. The camera cuts to Rocky withering to pain on the outside, Rocky Romero must have been eliminated. Sho charges Fale, Fale catches him and in the must delicate way possible slams him out of the ring. Sho has been eliminated. Tiger Mask kicks Fale in the chest, Fale grabs him by the throat and tosses him out of the ring, ackwardly. Tiger Mask has been eliminated. Fale was gentle with Sho but a little reckless with Tiger Mask. We can tell for whom he is friends with in the locker room and for whom he is not. Kidd and Uemura enter the ring and Kidd hits Owens with a drop kick then lets out a primordial scream. The Young Lions double team Fale and mange to chop him down to a knee. Entrant #20 Yuta Tsuji. The third Young Lion enters and joins in on the Fale beat down. Chase comes to the rescue takes out Kidd and Tsuji out. Double Team Attempt on Uemura but Uemura counters and Bushi drags Chase out of the ring and beats him up at ringside. The Young Lions continue where they left off and try to use team work to dump Fale ove rthe top. They are ultimately unsuccessful at it, I think it was a missed opportunity not having the Young Lions eliminate Fale. they could have fueded with Fale all year doing 3 on 1 matches to open the shows. Well maybe we didn't miss out on anything. Entrant #21 Yano. Yano is the final entrant. Yano is also accompanied by his KOPW Trophy. Fale brutalizes Tsuji in wait as Yano takes his time getting to the ring. Yano pinned Fale or something and Fale is still pissed about it cuz as is the deal with a Yano victory, Fale was outwitted looking stupid in the process. Chase Owens tosses Gabrial Kidd out of the ring in the back ground as Fale choke slams Uemura in the foreground. Pretty cool shot. Gabriel Kidd has been eliminated. Uemura was on tossed through the middle rope and lands on the floor. Bushi immediately assaults the poor bastard. Bushi has yet to enter the ring. Bushi rolls Uemura into the ring as Fale tosses Tsuji over the top rope. Yota Tsuji has been eliminated. Owens and Fale toss Uemura out of the ring. Uemura has been eliminated. Bushi finally enters the ring, Yano still is making his entrance. The ref call for the bell. Bad Luck Fale, Chase Owens Bushi and Yano are the final four and advance tot eh Four Way KOPW match on Night 2.

[Ramo2653]

15 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

This does seem like we're in the long-term payoff going back to 2018 when Jay White first joined the Bullet Club. Even before that, it seemed like Jay White had turned a huge corner when Elite/Bullet Club/Omega tried to recruit them, he rejected it, and came off like a huge babyface. Not only that, White beat Omega clean just weeks after the Omega/Jericho match, which genuinely surprised me. So it did surprise me a little bit when White ended up joining Bullet Club anyway and fully turned heel when his rejection of BC felt like a big babyface establishing moment. 

I do agree he did show a remarkable amount of vulnerability here we don't usually see from heels as he got all his dreams summarily crushed.

Except he had a promo right after that where he told Okada that he would turn on him one day. It was just a matter of time before Okada had his Sting moment.

[TheVileOne]

3 hours ago, Ramo2653 said:

Except he had a promo right after that where he told Okada that he would turn on him one day. It was just a matter of time before Okada had his Sting moment.

Never trust a knife pervert.

[The Natural]

Murder Ibushi.