AEW Dynamite - 10/7/2020

[John from Cincinnati]

1 minute ago, Craig H said:

Slappin' Meat

[FluffSnackwell]

19 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

He already said he's not turning heel in the bit about "you think I'm gonna change because my hair color did". It's not gonna happen. 

Yeah, but what else would you expect a lying sack of soon-to-be-heel shit to say?

[tbarrie]

2 hours ago, A_K said:

Have a look at the reaction on the Twitter feed:

No.

[HarryArchieGus]

Comparing Cody who cuts great promos, has terrific matches and has helped build up his peers to Triple H and his well documented selfishness (at least during his run as an active wrestler) is laughable.  Not a surprise, but this kinda talk seems to indicate a lot of 'Prince of Pro Wrestling' dissenters are too young to have actually sat thru a RAW or PPV back in 2002 onward. I'd like to say the same about the Double J TNA comparison, but I'd had enough of shitty early millenial American TV wrestling and only read about his disasterous run.  

Edited October 9, 2020 by HarryArchieGus

[John from Cincinnati]

Cody's got some standout promos and matches, but I really don't see the argument that it's laughable to compare him to Hunter. Lots of self-indulgent cosplay of an era they have strong feelings about is both dude's bread and butter. And cringey insider Elite humour definitely works as a counterweight to Hunter's cringey insider DX humour. There's plenty of ways you can see them being similar.

Cody doesn't have the years long track record (yet), but I see how he could get there quickly. 

[TheVileOne]

Putting all the drama aside, here's why I didn't like the title change. Brodie hadn't even held the title for two whole months yet. The way and fashion he beat Cody I think finally gave Brodie Lee and the Dark Order a little bit of gas and juice in the can to help push them further. Had Brodie Lee had a little longer with the title and continued just wrecking guys, I think whoever beat him it would've been a pretty big moment. And the feud or match with Cody was always going to be there. 

And then if they are going to hotshot this title run to say Orange Cassidy, I think it will make this title change even more pointless, since they simply could've had Brodie Lee lose it to Cassidy in the first place, since Cassidy is pretty much a legit star on the roster at this point.

[Curt McGirt]

That's how I feel, the buildup to the chain match needed at least another week. You didn't have to string it out for a month or more, just give it a little more gas in the tank to make it feel big. I know Cody was out for a month but it really didn't feel like it. Have him doing hits on Dark Order members in the back or something, have Brodie get more pissed and more pissed, THEN have him ask for the chain match. 

This is all just fantasy booking though. I think if they had a crowd with PPV they might've gone this route. As it is the match was fine, if they wanna shot it onto Cassidy cool, but I don't know what is in plan for Cody OR Brodie after that and that's an issue. Maybe a longer term feud between Nightmare Family and DO?

[HarryArchieGus]

3 hours ago, Andy in Kansas said:

Cody's got some standout promos and matches, but I really don't see the argument that it's laughable to compare him to Hunter. Lots of self-indulgent cosplay of an era they have strong feelings about is both dude's bread and butter. And cringey insider Elite humour definitely works as a counterweight to Hunter's cringey insider DX humour. There's plenty of ways you can see them being similar.

Cody doesn't have the years long track record (yet), but I see how he could get there quickly. 

I stand behind finding humour in the comparison.  Interesting note on the Elite vs. DX comedy.  I was about to say DX predates the Hunter on top era, but from what I understand they reformed at some point after 2002 for what sounds like an embarrassing run, so fair enough.  The comparison I was responding to was the discussion surrounding their respective 'stroke'.  Helmsley killed guys left and right in a time when they needed to make guys.  Van Dam was a star on the rise that H killed with a transitional move finish.  Booker T was primed for accension until H Hearst heated up their feud with blatant racism and killed him dead.  Etc, etc.  All well documented.  Cody from my view, has made everybody he's stepped in the ring with look better and more important.  Cody feels like a natural top guy.  The fans clearly buy him as a star.  Hunter was an upper midcard gatekeeper heel.  You can certainly compare, but I find it funny that somebody would make that comparison and suggest they are alike.  From what I've seen of Cody's impressive first year in AEW, I would suggest he's the antithesis of 2002-forth top guy era Helmsley.  

[TheVileOne]

I'm not quite ready to label this Reign of Terror 2.0 yet. I think the potential is definitely there with Cody. 

But look, not to belabor the point, Cody and Triple H are hardly the first guys to book themselves into title runs. Ric Flair and Dusty did it too, did they not? In fact, I recall Flair's runs as booker/main event guy are generally seen very positively.

I'd say the difference is with Cody, he's at least showed a tendency to put guys ever clean in big matches and title matches. And there isn't this sense of him politicking his way into undercutting and killing other guys like those situations with RVD and Booker T. I think the Booker T situation is more egregious because after beating him at WrestleMania and using the racially-tinged promo, their rematch ended in a non-finish, and Booker T was unceremoniously forgotten about as Triple H was moved into a feud with broken down 43-year-old Kevin Nash. Meanwhile, Booker T gets moved into an uneventful feud with Christian for the IC title. It took him three years to finally get back to the world title level and become a main event property again. You can't say Triple H did no damage there.

Edited October 10, 2020 by TheVileOne

[Octopus]

HHH’s neck is strong and pure. 

Cody’s?

 

[A_K]

10 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I stand behind finding humour in the comparison.  Interesting note on the Elite vs. DX comedy.  I was about to say DX predates the Hunter on top era, but from what I understand they reformed at some point after 2002 for what sounds like an embarrassing run, so fair enough.  The comparison I was responding to was the discussion surrounding their respective 'stroke'.  Helmsley killed guys left and right in a time when they needed to make guys.  Van Dam was a star on the rise that H killed with a transitional move finish.  Booker T was primed for accension until H Hearst heated up their feud with blatant racism and killed him dead.  Etc, etc.  All well documented.  Cody from my view, has made everybody he's stepped in the ring with look better and more important.  Cody feels like a natural top guy.  The fans clearly buy him as a star.  Hunter was an upper midcard gatekeeper heel.  You can certainly compare, but I find it funny that somebody would make that comparison and suggest they are alike.  From what I've seen of Cody's impressive first year in AEW, I would suggest he's the antithesis of 2002-forth top guy era Helmsley.  

I mean, come on, the only humour here is the bolded revisionism. One main-evented 13 consecutive PPVs at the WWF height in 99/00 before any of the mid-00s stuff, the other quite literally bounced around mid-card for 9 years on a pale imitiation of what the WWE used-to-be, culiminating in the Stardust gimmick and is now spearheading a show that, ultimately for whatever reason, has lost 15-20% viewership from its opening month(s) of being on. Would be great to see AEW back in the million + bracket, but until the numbers bear it out, no one is buying him as a "top star" and it certainly doesn't merit any comparison with that period of wrestling ..

 

Edited October 10, 2020 by A_K

[HarryArchieGus]

I've never seen a Stardust match or much of anything Cody did prior to AEW (save for some NJPW and ROH bouts).  In AEW from the first show onwards, which is what I was talking to, he's certainly been one of their 'top stars'.  As a detractor of his work, gimmick, whatever, you can certainly say he's not a top star to you, but the crowd certainly buys him as one.  He no doubt has stroke in the writer's room, but I don't see any unjust reasons for him to be in the position he's in.  Everybody is going to have a misstep here or there, but Cody's run in this company has been terrific.  So many of the fantastic angles and matches he particpated in weren't executed behind the scenes.  If he was putting himself in those positions and failing the argument against him being in his position would have fuel.  Add to that he's had a number of the best promos during the first year.  That promo on the way to the match with Jericho and the concession stand brawl were as good as anything they've done.  His match with Dustin set a high standard for this company.  And his matches since have been consistently good to great.  He got a bad neck tattoo and had the shitty band that wrote his lame theme perform a horrendous live version - not reasons for me to hate him.  

I don't care to discuss H much further, but you're right he was a 'top star'.  My opinion is he was a roided-up-per-midcard-gatekeeper.  His attitude era (to 98ish) was fine in that upper midcard.  The 99 to mid 00 run was not a great era.  The late 00s and onto Mania X-7 era was mostly fun with the exception of the monotonous 'McMahon-Helmsley era' bullshit.  The '02 Hunter on top era (killing the competition and awful long winded promos) was what made me stop watching wrestling.

Edited October 10, 2020 by HarryArchieGus

[Godfrey]

I only argue with @HarryArchieGus that Cody is a natural main eventer. He works hard and I’m here for it but it doesn’t always come naturally to him and I think that’s what gives some people pause.

[AxB]

Sexy Dr Luther!

[caley]

On 10/8/2020 at 2:53 AM, RolandTHTG said:

That was some Ronnie Garvin shit with Brodie Lee. Giving him a brief title run so Cody can go film his game show. Not even a rubber match? Phooey.

Swole/Deeb was a sleeper for the best women's match in the company's history.

Yeah credit where it due. JR was good tonight...

Hmmm, not sure about good. Especially when he opened the show by welcoming "Ricky Skaggs" to the commentary booth. That was my favourite part of the ENTIRE night for the way Taz and Ricky got mad at him, then Tony said "I think Ricky Skaggs is a banjo player" and JR looked super annoyed about it, as Tony looked at the camera, visibly laughing at his own reference.

On 10/8/2020 at 9:49 AM, Curt McGirt said:

Four corners sucks. The only time it's cool is in PR where you know everyone is gonna bleed to death. 

Every time I see Greg Valentine all I can think of is the picture of him shirtless with Beefcake and a loaded bowl sitting between them. 

EDIT: Oh god Beefcake's nipple rings. I did not need to see that today. 

  Hide contents

 

Greg Valentine looks like one of those women who are ahead of you at the drugstore, looking to buy smokes but not able to explain to the cashier exactly which brand it is without her going through every pack.

Alternately, he looks like the evil whale from Bubble Bobble.

 

On 10/9/2020 at 3:59 AM, Casey said:

There's no way Cody is worse than Triple H's reign of terror in the mid 2000s. One was actively holding down and beating talent that was ready to be elevated, the other was beating guys like [b]Sonny Kiss and Warhorse[/b] in title defenses.

And I say that as someone who isn't exactly thrilled with Cody winning the title again. But I'm willing to let it play out, because AEW deserves the benefit of the doubt still, unlike WWE who has burned me way too many times to give them any sort of "well, maybe it'll turn out for the better!" arguments.

Well and Eddie Kingston, Scorpio Sky (Whom they seem to have annointed as one of their next big things), Jake Hager, Ricky Starks,  and Jungle Boy (another pushed top prospect). So, if you focus on the two least over opponents (Can throw Marq Quen in there, too), I guess you could say Triple H only held down guys like Scott Steiner, Kevin Nash and Maven in 2002 (While ignoring that one lil Wrestlemania match).

[Casey]

Eddie Kingston & Ricky Starks weren't signed, but BECAUSE of the matches with Cody, they were. And now look at them. One is probably going to main event a PPV against the World champion, the other is featured every single week. Jungle Boy is a prospect for sure, but is he at RVD levels of overness? 2003 Booker T? That's a big no. Those two were ready to be in the main event, I'd like to see you argue the case for Jungle Boy being a main eventer this early in his career. Spoiler, you can't, because there isn't an argument for that. It's way too soon.

Maybe got me on Scorpio Sky, I'll give you that.

And to top this off - absolutely nobody cares about Jake Hager, try harder.

[Infinit]

1 hour ago, caley said:

 

Alternately, he looks like the evil whale from Bubble Bobble.

 

[Big Z]

16 hours ago, A_K said:

I mean, come on, the only humour here is the bolded revisionism. One main-evented 13 consecutive PPVs at the WWF height in 99/00 before any of the mid-00s stuff, the other quite literally bounced around mid-card for 9 years on a pale imitiation of what the WWE used-to-be, culiminating in the Stardust gimmick and is now spearheading a show that, ultimately for whatever reason, has lost 15-20% viewership from its opening month(s) of being on. Would be great to see AEW back in the million + bracket, but until the numbers bear it out, no one is buying him as a "top star" and it certainly doesn't merit any comparison with that period of wrestling ..

 

When competing in competently booked organizations. Cody has looked like nothing but a superstar. He's consistently the most over/second most over guy (right there with Mox) on the roster, and as mentioned many times in this thread, has had excellent matches with a wide variety of performers. The last time WWE properly utilized all/most of their talent, Cody was still in high school. And that same WWE basically begged Cody (along with the other members of The Elite) to come there before they formed AEW.

Also, total viewers are a very secondary measure to determine AEW's worth. AEW has consistently been very strong in the demos that matter, and Cody is no small part of that. 

[TheVileOne]

Cody basically peaked in WWE with The Shield feud and teaming with Goldust. After that it was all downhill from there.

[Custos]

On 10/10/2020 at 5:01 AM, EVA said:

Live reactions (prior to the pandemic and such as they exist now) suggest Cody is well loved by most AEW fans.  It’s really inarguable.

One could even say...undeniable. He’s still the poster boy for the WWE Alternative Movement (the All In ‘no entity owns pro-wrestling’ promo being emblematic), I think people are underestimating the goodwill still left in the tank for Cody to indulge himself in his high-profile programs, leaving aside any heel turn foreshadowing etc.  

The Jarrett and HHH comparisons feel hyperbolic to me (for example, the crazy long streak where HHH was either champion or challenger for World Title match on PPV feels far beyond Cody’s actual or potential antics at this point).

Or perhaps I’m underselling the FICKLE nature of fan support.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

"I hate Cody Rhodes" is not my opinion, but it is certainly not an unreasonable opinion to hold. 

"The majority of current fans of pro wrestling hate Cody Rhodes" is demonstrably incorrect. It's a ridiculous thing to try and assert.

"Cody Rhodes has some character traits that seem more suited to a heel than to a babyface" is factual, and a good observation. 

"Cody Rhodes is a heel" is demonstrably incorrect. It's a ridiculous thing to try and assert.

"AEW could conceivably be doing even better than they are, business-wise?" OK, I guess they could...

"AEW are doing poorly, business-wise, and Cody Rhodes is the reason?" Come on, man!

 

[Big Z]

Cody could be a really good heel in AEW when that time comes, as he was very good as a heel during much of his ROH and New Japan (not real familiar with the ROH work, but he was an excellent heel in New Japan up until the full Bullet Club split in San Francisco when he sided with The Elite). However, that time is not now, and the limited fans in attendance this week clearly show that he is still a top face in the company.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

I agree with you there, @Big ZZ

Also, Brandi was pretty damned great as a heel valet. I think it was at WK12 that I was first exposed to their heel act, and I loved it. If (when) Cody does turn it'll almost certainly be pretty great.

Heel Cody v Face Hangman Page, to pick one example, has the potential to be a barn-burner of a feud.

[Casey]

Speaking of heel Cody in New Japan, I think I was in the minority around here about loving Ibushi/Cody from WrestleKingdom 12. I think maybe @Brian Fowleragreed with me, but I might be confusing that for me and him arguing about it. I'm not entirely sure 

[EVA]

I loved the HANDSOME BATTLE, as well.