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AEW Dynamite - 10/7/2020


Dolfan in NYC

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There's no way Cody is worse than Triple H's reign of terror in the mid 2000s. One was actively holding down and beating talent that was ready to be elevated, the other was beating guys like Sonny Kiss and Warhorse in title defenses.

And I say that as someone who isn't exactly thrilled with Cody winning the title again. But I'm willing to let it play out, because AEW deserves the benefit of the doubt still, unlike WWE who has burned me way too many times to give them any sort of "well, maybe it'll turn out for the better!" arguments.

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Should definitely let it play out. The combination of the overblown pomp and circumstance Cody provides for his own character and the Bucks laughably booking themselves as anti-authority bad asses that has people cringing and getting vanity promotion vibes, I think. 

AEW deserves our time to ward that off, though, IMO.

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11 hours ago, The Green Meanie said:

FTR totally stole that finisher from Power & Glory.

They've been doing the finishes of various teams, haven't they?  It's part of their gimmick.

11 hours ago, just drew said:

And then there's Kenny Omega. I still have no idea why so many clamor for him to have a run with the AEW title. There's not a single thing about him that says "star" to any audience member who isn't extensively familiar with his Japan work. He's not a good promo. He comes off forced and aloof. I can't imagine him coming off well in outside interviews the way Mox does. 

 

I've heard it joked that Kenny comes off as an alien living in a human body, unsure of how to correctly adapt to our human ways.  Every single time I see him promo, I'm reminded of that.  He so weird and awkward.

39 minutes ago, Casey said:

There's no way Cody is worse than Triple H's reign of terror in the mid 2000s. One was actively holding down and beating talent that was ready to be elevated, the other was beating guys like Sonny Kiss and Warhorse in title defenses.

And I say that as someone who isn't exactly thrilled with Cody winning the title again. But I'm willing to let it play out, because AEW deserves the benefit of the doubt still, unlike WWE who has burned me way too many times to give them any sort of "well, maybe it'll turn out for the better!" arguments.

At least Cody lets people kick out of his finish ?

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Cody is pretty fucking awesome and his promo after his match was on fire. I want to see how the booking of Cody vs Brodie and Cody vs the Dark Order is handled beyond this point, but AEW hasn't let me down yet. In fact, their booking usually leads to some wildly cool shit.

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Yeah, I have zero problem with Cody coming back and winning.  The vengeful babyface coming back from injury and losing is some WWE bullshit.  People want to see their heroes win, and AEW does a good job of keeping their top babyfaces strong. I know Cody isn’t a big babyface with this board, but I don’t think the consensus opinion here is at all representative of the AEW fabnase at large.

I love Brodie, and I think winning the title when he did definitley helped take his act to the next level at the right time, but he will be fine coming out of this loss.  He doesn’t need the belt.  He’ll get his heat back and won’t be beaten for another 4 or 5 months and it won’t matter in the slightest that he lost this match.

Again, I’ll just repeat what I kind of talked about a week or two ago:  I don’t feel like guys of a certain height/weight should be unbeatable; they just need to be HARD to beat.  In his 6 months with the company, they’ve established Brodie as someone really damn hard to beat.  He is a credible threat to everybody, and the outcome of this match doesn’t change that.

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It's funny how much watching WWE or hearing about what's happening in WWE can poison how you view wrestling on this scale, like worrying about direction. I do it too and there's plenty of times where I have to remind myself that just because this is on cable doesn't mean it's WWE.

16 minutes ago, EVA said:

Yeah, I have zero problem with Cody coming back and winning.  The vengeful babyface coming back from injury and losing is some WWE bullshit.  People want to see their heroes win, and AEW does a good job of keeping their top babyfaces strong. I know Cody isn’t a big babyface with this board, but I don’t think the consensus opinion here is at all representative of the AEW fabnase at large.

I love Brodie, and I think winning the title when he did definitley helped take his act to the next level at the right time, but he will be fine coming out of this loss.  He doesn’t need the belt.  He’ll get his heat back and won’t be beaten for another 4 or 5 months and it won’t matter in the slightest that he lost this match.

Again, I’ll just repeat what I kind of talked about a week or two ago:  I don’t feel like guys of a certain height/weight should be unbeatable; they just need to be HARD to beat.  In his 6 months with the company, they’ve established Brodie as someone really damn hard to beat.  He is a credible threat to everybody, and the outcome of this match doesn’t change that.

YES. I never thought Vader was unbeatable when I was a kid and I don't remember him being unbeatable now, but I do think of guys like him being a very, very hard out in wrestling. Sting beat him multiple times, Ron Simmons beat him, Flair beat him, etc. Even though Vader lost plenty of times in WCW, it never hurt him until maybe when Hogan got there.

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2 hours ago, EVA said:

Yeah, I have zero problem with Cody coming back and winning.  The vengeful babyface coming back from injury and losing is some WWE bullshit.  People want to see their heroes win, and AEW does a good job of keeping their top babyfaces strong. I know Cody isn’t a big babyface with this board, but I don’t think the consensus opinion here is at all representative of the AEW fabnase at large.

 

I have zero issue with a vengeful babyface coming back to win the belt.  The problem with this is that it was built up how Cody was getting arrogant and then he paid for it by getting demolished in minutes.  They did nothing to pay off the angle.  Did Cody come back any different?  Was he gritty and fighting his way back to the top?  No.  He came back dressed as a fancy lad, with the same overdone ring entrance, still calling himself "The Prince of Pro Wrestling," and regained the belt in his first match back.  This isn't a hot babyface getting revenge.  This is a booker who is a mark for himself taking back the belt another guy was keeping warm for him. 

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

It's funny how much watching WWE or hearing about what's happening in WWE can poison how you view wrestling on this scale, like worrying about direction. I do it too and there's plenty of times where I have to remind myself that just because this is on cable doesn't mean it's WWE.

 

How dare you sir.  I haven't watched WWE in almost four years.  ?

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2 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I have zero issue with a vengeful babyface coming back to win the belt.  The problem with this is that it was built up how Cody was getting arrogant and then he paid for it by getting demolished in minutes.  They did nothing to pay off the angle.  Did Cody come back any different?  Was he gritty and fighting his way back to the top?  No.  He came back dressed as a fancy lad, with the same overdone ring entrance, still calling himself "The Prince of Pro Wrestling," and regained the belt in his first match back.  This isn't a hot babyface getting revenge.  This is a booker who is a mark for himself taking back the belt another guy was keeping warm for him. 

How dare you sir.  I haven't watched WWE in almost four years.  ?

You don't have to watch, but you know it's a shit show!

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I guess I just don’t get the logic behind the idea that it would be better for Cody to have to make some protracted run at the title.

Cody didn’t just lose the title.  He was beaten to the point of a stretcher job and his family was assaulted, too.  This was about revenge, as much as anything else.  It would’ve made no sense for him to come back and say, “Gee whiz, I’m really gonna work my way back to the top, and then you’ll see what I can really do, Mr. Brodie!” He was always going to come back hot for blood, going right for Brodie.

And Brodie isn’t a chickenshit heel.  It would make no sense for him to duck Cody for any length of time.

This match was always going to happen quick because that’s what makes the most sense for the characters.

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Nice hard hitting battle of the 'bow-hemoths' to begin.  Hobbs has a ways to go, but I like that they've gotten behind him.  I thought Cage looked good here.  Tho, I really have no interest in the FTW title.  Taz's need for a rogue title in 98 was excellent Paul E booking (Note: the Champion Douglas was injured and allowed to keep his title), but it has no rhyme or reason in 2020.  If they'd given us more of a questionable finish in the Mox title fight then I'd get it, but as is it's completely useless.  To whomever mentioned it prior, yeah, Starks seemed to no sell Darby's emerging presence and it made Darb look a bit foolish. 

Neat Archer promo.  Somebody needs to document the so tacky they're really kinda awesome Jake Roberts fashions.   The Mox promo later on was even better.  So good.

FTR-TH2 wasn't bad, but we got more 'not-so-bad-but-really-sloppy' current day Jack Evans.  I hate to say it, but he often seems like an injured or over the hill guy on his last legs (see Matt Hardy for example) especially when compared to his highlight reel hey day.  I did read him mention that he wasn't in proper game shape when he started with AEW, but I'm not seeing a difference from then til Wednesday.  I like Angelico, but I can't really get a read on his abilities.  I find him really goofy.  Tho, I like that he's dropped the wet suit look.  He seems very capable, but I find pretty much everything TH2 does very awkward and mediocre.  I'd like to see some of their Lucha work from years past to get a better read on what they might be capable of.  As of now, they seem really expendable on a somewhat bloated roster.  FTR matches/segments are what I look forward to most, and tho I didn't love this, I found lots to enjoy.  Loved the Bucks spoof on watching the monitor.  I'm not sure where this Bucks shit is going, but I don't hate it like most.  I'm interested to see where they go.  Best Friends bit was fine, but they really actually do come off as comedy guys.  Or the Too Cool of AEW.  It would have been smart to book them more as toughs in this feud seeing as they're coming off that extraordinary street fight.  Seems like booking has kinda dropped the ball there.  Even moreso with Santana/Ortiz.  I mean even in a loss they looked awesome.  They should've been back on the hunt the very next week.  Still time to play off of it tho.

The congraulatory Jericho clips were fine.  They should've had Tana and Ultimo speak Japanese with subtitles.  Man, I really do hope NJPW and AEW bury the hatchet soon.  I so wanna see them join forces.  Maybe even license their product to AEW for North American distribution and start a 24/7 like service.  Having a useable app for NJPW would be wonderful.  NJPWWorld is the most awful dogshit streaming app I've ever used.

Dog Collar match was fun. Would've prefered a Lee victory, but the booking criticism from some on here is harsh and overblown.  I don't entirely disagree that they went too quick to a gimmick match (an AEW issue), but this was really good and reasonable.  Going forth there are so many ways to go.  The Cody promo was more excellence.  I get the goofing on him for his silly tats and bad hair dye job, but the guy is so good.  I'm with the majority not on this board.  I love his work.  OC next week is fine by me.  I don't think an OC loss kills him.  I just don't care about Cassidy winning matches.  I want to see him competitive, but he's just terrifc win or lose.  I like the idea of a win and onto a three way for the PPV.  Also, loved the Silver stuff - this guy's on his way up and up. 

And so great to see the Hammer.  Thank you @Curt McGirt for that incredible Dream Team photo.  Loved that team.    

I watched on tape delay, and had zero interest in another Swole match.  Doesn't sound like Deeb brought much more than the usual out of her.  Deeb's good, but I don't see her as a miracle worker.  

Main Event was fine.  Luther really had no business being out there, but bless Jericho for that promo that made it seem worthy of TV time.  Serpentico on the other hand looks like he could be on the rise.  He may need to work on his look however.  I like the build to a MJF-Y2J battle, but that clown shit and tired heel 'picture of one's self as a gift' bit was weak.  Thankfully it was brief.  I would have liked a ra ra delusional heel Jericho over statement before the excellent SNL style credits and (the nice highlight) heel locker room celebration. 

Another good show this week.  

4 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I've heard it joked that Kenny comes off as an alien living in a human body, unsure of how to correctly adapt to our human ways.  Every single time I see him promo, I'm reminded of that.  He so weird and awkward.

At least Cody lets people kick out of his finish ?

I offer this promo to say he's very capable.  Also, his post main event NJPW promo/faux media scrums are generally awesome and often hilarious, and I recommend them along with revisiting this gold... 
 

My counter complaint is that he doesn't do enough promos.  Or wrestle enough for that matter. 

As for the perfectly fine promo last night - somebody needs to remind the guys (especially those like Omega who have never really worked for TV wrestling companies) where to project their words - the camera!  Don't look at Marvez.  Also, production should be tightening those shots - the importance is the wrestlers words, not making sure the interviewer is also in the shot.  

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What's odd is that a company that was launched specifically because Hangman Page, Kenny Omega, Cody and the Young Bucks were the hottest free agents in wrestling can now be accused of "over pushing them " like they're TNA Jeff Jarrett. 

Honestly, this first year has done a good job of not over-pushing these guys the way they could have been. 

I dunno...people must have really hated NOAH when it started then. 

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3 hours ago, EVA said:

Yeah, I have zero problem with Cody coming back and winning.  The vengeful babyface coming back from injury and losing is some WWE bullshit.  People want to see their heroes win, and AEW does a good job of keeping their top babyfaces strong. I know Cody isn’t a big babyface with this board, but I don’t think the consensus opinion here is at all representative of the AEW fabnase at large.

Nope. Have a look at the reaction on the Twitter feed:

The idea of ever letting someone actively involved in the product have influence in scripting it always seemed laughable to me. Akin to letting a striker script a soccer game, or QB script a football game. I wonder how those games would go?? Wrestlers are such an incredibly carny bunch (they almost have to be by definition given the demands of the job) that its like letting the fox into the hen house when one is given the book. This mediocrity who bounced through years of underwhelming WWE scenarios now gets the time of his life writing himself as the conquering hero. Why not? Good for him creatively & financially. He also pulled the rug from under Archer, FWIW. Loves writing himself as the monster-slayer, so he does!

Edited by A_K
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Cody and the Bucks are nowhere near as bad as Triple H or Jeff Jarrett back in the early to mid 2000's. I think The Bucks to their credit saw that "hey, everyone thinks we'll just book ourselves to be champions forever and beat every team". But they haven't really done that. They have made a lot of teams look great in defeat and even more than a few matches that everyone figured they'd win in (most notably Private Party in the title tournament).

Cody on the other hand put himself into a corner when he did the whole "if i lose this match I can never challenge for the world title" thing. While I'm glad he didn't win that match because I think Cody as world champion would have been insufferable, the TNT title was essentially created so Cody could have that aura of being a "top guy" without being the top guy. Dusty did it when he created the World Television Title in the 80's and said it was on par as an equal with the World's championship. This Dog Collar match feels like it was done way too quickly. Cody should have ducked Brody and made him really go crazy. 

But as much as they were hyping up Piper/Valentine, they forgot one small thing. That match was non-sanctioned and was non title. Piper won the match but not the US Title. That's how they should have been handled. Cody wins the match. Gets his respect back. But Brody is still champion. Feud continues for another couple of months. I can't see Orange Cassidy winning next week. I would hope they at least go to a draw. That's an option they don't use nearly enough.

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Cody's idea of his TNT title run is that he's making guys. Marq Quen, Sonny Kiss, etc. get a chance to show their stuff in singles action on national TV. Then he puts over Brodie Lee to make the Dark Order, which unequivocally worked, and further puts Lee over as a badass even in a loss via a brutal stip match. And finally he (theoretically) puts over Orange Cassidy, their new star. I don't really have a problem with who wins or loses, it's how they win and lose and the follow up after the fact. It's arguable whether Quen or Kiss got anything out of their showcases and I don't know if OC needs The Rub from Cody or whether losing to Lee first was worth it. Hopefully, Brodie Lee can use this momentum to grow and doesn't disappear like after his last big loss.

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19 minutes ago, A_K said:

Nope. Have a look at the reaction on the Twitter feed:

The idea of ever letting someone actively involved in the product have influence in scripting it always seemed laughable to me. Akin to letting a striker script a soccer game, or QB script a football game. I wonder how those games would go?? Wrestlers are such an incredibly carny bunch (they almost have to be by definition given the demands of the job) that its like letting the fox into the hen house when one is given the book. This mediocrity who bounced through years of underwhelming WWE scenarios now gets the time of his life writing himself as the conquering hero. Why not? Good for him creatively & financially. He also pulled the rug from under Archer, FWIW. Loves writing himself as the monster-slayer, so he does!

LOL we all know Twitter is real life, and social media discourse is never dominated by a vocal minority of Mad Online types.  Shit, I ain’t reading it all, but I’d guess at least half of the negative responses are from partisan WWE fanboys who are always looking for an excuse to hate on everything AEW anyway.

Live reactions (prior to the pandemic and such as they exist now) suggest Cody is well loved by most AEW fans.  It’s really inarguable.

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19 minutes ago, Godfrey said:

Cody's idea of his TNT title run is that he's making guys. Marq Quen, Sonny Kiss, etc. get a chance to show their stuff in singles action on national TV.

Cody's making guys the same way Hogan made Kidman.

"It doesn't matter if this guy does the job.  I'm making this guy by letting him hang with me" is the second oldest carny bullshit line in the book, used by every wrestler who ever used his power to go over young guys. 

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15 minutes ago, EVA said:

LOL we all know Twitter is real life, and social media discourse is never dominated by a vocal minority of Mad Online types.  Shit, I ain’t reading it all, but I’d guess at least half of the negative responses are from partisan WWE fanboys who are always looking for an excuse to hate on everything AEW anyway.

Live reactions (prior to the pandemic and such as they exist now) suggest Cody is well loved by most AEW fans.  It’s really inarguable.

Ok, so let's break this down:

- You have the opinion of a number pretty articulate contributors on here

- You have an evidential groundswell of online opinion (albeit expressed in less characters)

So, from that point you have two options. You can concede that perhaps your definition of "I know Cody isn’t a big babyface with this board, but I don’t think the consensus opinion here is at all representative of the AEW fabnase at large" has gone a bit awry, and that in fact there is quite a fair portion of observers who think it is poor product & poor storytelling, or you can aggressive lash out with "LOL we all know Twitter is real life, and social media discourse is never dominated by a vocal minority of Mad Online types.  Shit, I ain’t reading it all, but I’d guess at least half of the negative responses are from partisan WWE fanboys who are always looking for an excuse to hate on everything AEW anyway." Interesting insight into your character. FWIW, I haven't watched WWE consistently in nigh on 15 years. Nor, do I think, I am a "Mad Online vocal minority type". To be honest, you're the only one that comes across as pretty aggressive in this scenario.

FWIW, your self-professed "inarguable" viewpoint is flawed by an "inarguable" reality of stadiums having been empty for nigh-on 8 months (or 2/3rds of the life of the company), pretty much the length of time people have had problems with the way he has been written.

 

Edited by A_K
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I wasn’t calling you a Mad Online type or a WWE partisan.  I was strictly referring to what I was seeing in that Twitter thread, specifically, and what you typically find in wrestling Twitter discourse, generally.

Edited by EVA
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Surprised to see so much pushback on the Cody win. Seemed like pretty logical booking, as laid out by EVA. I guess some people aren't keen on belts flip-flopping and want more for Brodie. Given that this is the first time this company has flip-flopped a belt like that, I'm fine being forgiving. Used sparingly, I think there's a place for that. As for Brodie, I'm gonna wait and see. 

The comparisons to Hunter or Jarrett are worth entertaining, but I'd need to see years of that behaviour and more egregious overreaches before I say we're there. A top guy getting decisive wins over a couple big 40+ year old heels who know what they're there for doesn't really rub me wrong. 

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Apparently this week, for parts of the show, AEW's rating amongst Women 18-34 was higher than it was amongst men. Although they didn't say which bits. I'll just guess and say it was probably the opening match. Ladies love Hoss battles.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGIWslFltrF/?igshid=fwv5luf03lax

 

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48 minutes ago, AxB said:

Apparently this week, for parts of the show, AEW's rating amongst Women 18-34 was higher than it was amongst men. Although they didn't say which bits. I'll just guess and say it was probably the opening match. Ladies love Hoss battles.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CGIWslFltrF/?igshid=fwv5luf03lax

 

Ladies Love Slappin' Meat

Wait...

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